From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 00:55:16 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 20:55:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] line numbering
Message-ID: <002501d0e450$debd2a00$9c377e00$@gmail.com>

Does anyone know how to get jaws to speak the line numbers in a word
document?

Justin.  


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 01:01:58 2015
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 21:01:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] line numbering
In-Reply-To: <002501d0e450$debd2a00$9c377e00$@gmail.com>
References: <002501d0e450$debd2a00$9c377e00$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F3782EC8-812A-4BDF-95EB-4FA579BFD694@gmail.com>

I believe that Alt+Delete will say line and column info for the cursor.


> On Aug 31, 2015, at 8:55 PM, justin williams via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know how to get jaws to speak the line numbers in a word
> document?
> 
> Justin.  
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From bunnykatie6 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 04:16:32 2015
From: bunnykatie6 at gmail.com (Katie Wang)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 00:16:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] line numbering
In-Reply-To: <F3782EC8-812A-4BDF-95EB-4FA579BFD694@gmail.com>
References: <002501d0e450$debd2a00$9c377e00$@gmail.com>
	<F3782EC8-812A-4BDF-95EB-4FA579BFD694@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+6VNgNYncfwiRMKi0FA-dUXKBMsT7nv9n-7bH8BgC6TV1NeAw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Justin and all,

Alt Delete will announce how far your cursor is from the margins
(e.g., 1 inch from left, 1 inch from top). Insert Delete will announce
the line and column number. Hope this helps!

Katie

On 8/31/15, Greg Aikens via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I believe that Alt+Delete will say line and column info for the cursor.
>
>
>> On Aug 31, 2015, at 8:55 PM, justin williams via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know how to get jaws to speak the line numbers in a word
>> document?
>>
>> Justin.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmail.com
>


From gmoore3rd at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 04:44:43 2015
From: gmoore3rd at gmail.com (Glenn III)
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2015 23:44:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] research and accomodations
Message-ID: <CAAxfxEBivOQGg8RQZv6FXkN27JNFWRC-6EEZMLiYVtO9Fr2pug@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Ashley.
You had a lot of questions, so I hope this is useful for some of what you
were asking about organizing information for citation.
for a quick background, I am high-partial, and in school, I was taught to
use sighted research methods; using a notecard for each
point/note/citation, paraphrase the note, collect cards together, etc.
 Returning to college many years later, I found that method wouldn't work
both because I couldn't see what I used to, and everything now being
electronic, I'd prefer an electronic (and accessible) method. the biggest
logistical challenge is, like you say, when different sources have similar
information that is hard to recall and keep straight. What I've found works
pretty well (at least when I have a paper that I have enough time to
research more leaseurly, and which I know pretty specifically what I'm
looking for is this.
I start with picking good sources, then in a document file (I use MS Word,
but a simple text file may work even better for you, so, I'll use text for
the example), I'd make basically an indented paragraph for each source,
then below the line identifying the source, I can take notes as I review
the source material. every point i think worth noting, I make a new line
and write the note (which works well for finding that point later, since
each piece of information is on an individual line, arranged in a neat
list, already paraphrased, similar to the old notecard method to avoid
accidental plagarism). If you start each line with, say, the page number of
the information you're citing, then that's both a good marker for each data
point, if you later want to add another note you noticed, just search for
the page numbers where it belongs and add it in, and you'll need those page
numbers for your in-line parenthetical citation. So, all the sources for
that paper are in one accessible document that you can review later if you
need to refresh your memory, where all the info for each source is in its
original logical (i.e., word/language) arrangment, and you can include
whatever you need to make that a works cited. So, I think of it as a
Bibliography with notes.
It's simple, accessible, needs no special software, is searchable, and
helps with good research method (e.g., you paraphrase the same way you
would with notecards, to digest and synthesize, rather than copy or
plagarize content, or over generalize from a broad reading that cannot be
traced back to specific citeable points in the source), and for someone
like me, without a steel trap mind, it is a pretty good way to keep all
that information straight in my mind, especially when sources are similar,
and so I can read, take notes, digest everything to get the big picture,
construct my argument/outline, and still be able to go back and find my
supporting details.
Is that any help?

-Glenn Moore III
State Secretary,
National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
(find our calendar at nfbofillinois.org/?page_id=158)
nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org>   "Live the Life You Want"

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 04:44:50 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 00:44:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] line numbering
In-Reply-To: <CA+6VNgNYncfwiRMKi0FA-dUXKBMsT7nv9n-7bH8BgC6TV1NeAw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002501d0e450$debd2a00$9c377e00$@gmail.com>	<F3782EC8-812A-4BDF-95EB-4FA579BFD694@gmail.com>
	<CA+6VNgNYncfwiRMKi0FA-dUXKBMsT7nv9n-7bH8BgC6TV1NeAw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901d0e470$f05e3400$d11a9c00$@gmail.com>

Thank you Katie; Thank you.  That worked.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Katie Wang via
nabs-l
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 12:17 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Katie Wang <bunnykatie6 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] line numbering

Hi Justin and all,

Alt Delete will announce how far your cursor is from the margins (e.g., 1
inch from left, 1 inch from top). Insert Delete will announce the line and
column number. Hope this helps!

Katie

On 8/31/15, Greg Aikens via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I believe that Alt+Delete will say line and column info for the cursor.
>
>
>> On Aug 31, 2015, at 8:55 PM, justin williams via nabs-l 
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone know how to get jaws to speak the line numbers in a word 
>> document?
>>
>> Justin.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.
>> com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bunnykatie6%40gmai
> l.com
>

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Tue Sep  1 05:18:43 2015
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 01:18:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] research and accomodations
In-Reply-To: <CAAxfxEBivOQGg8RQZv6FXkN27JNFWRC-6EEZMLiYVtO9Fr2pug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxfxEBivOQGg8RQZv6FXkN27JNFWRC-6EEZMLiYVtO9Fr2pug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E1008AC81A0547CCB098A5FCB1C4BE32@OwnerPC>

Hi Glen,

I have central vision but never used sighted research methods of 
organization although I was exposed to them from high school classes; 
probably from history and english.
I've always used braille and jaws.

Anyways, yes that was helpful, and I'm glad someone else struggled with 
organizing due to the multiple sources, some of which have similar titles, 
similar info, or similar authors.

I currently have been using Word for my citations which I write down 
manually. I do these records as I find sources. I take entries out if I find 
the source is not relevant.
I used my braille note for writing my notes. But I find they are too long 
and generalized; and I think this is a learning style for me; I need to 
write to remember and pay attention as I listen to a reader or synthesized 
speech.
So, I overwrite  things and then feel overwelmed. I could do what you do by 
making brief notes in a Word file under each citation and have another file 
for just citations.

I like the idea of having one idea or paraphrased fact per line.
Its so true that going by line or paragraph makes it easier to skim.

However, I can just see the file getting rather big!
Is there ways to divide up the file to search it? For instance a way to put 
in bookmarks?
Another idea I had was to label my sources with letters which works if I 
have 26 or less and I doubt I will have over 26 ever, unless I'm a doctoral 
student. I could then write what source coresponds to each letter and search 
by letter in the file. Maybe for you all using low vision reading, using 
different colors of text would help you skim for material.

Thanks for sharing, and best of luck with any research you do!

Ashley


-----Original Message----- 
From: Glenn III via nabs-l
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 12:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Glenn III
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research and accomodations

Hi Ashley.
You had a lot of questions, so I hope this is useful for some of what you
were asking about organizing information for citation.
for a quick background, I am high-partial, and in school, I was taught to
use sighted research methods; using a notecard for each
point/note/citation, paraphrase the note, collect cards together, etc.
Returning to college many years later, I found that method wouldn't work
both because I couldn't see what I used to, and everything now being
electronic, I'd prefer an electronic (and accessible) method. the biggest
logistical challenge is, like you say, when different sources have similar
information that is hard to recall and keep straight. What I've found works
pretty well (at least when I have a paper that I have enough time to
research more leaseurly, and which I know pretty specifically what I'm
looking for is this.
I start with picking good sources, then in a document file (I use MS Word,
but a simple text file may work even better for you, so, I'll use text for
the example), I'd make basically an indented paragraph for each source,
then below the line identifying the source, I can take notes as I review
the source material. every point i think worth noting, I make a new line
and write the note (which works well for finding that point later, since
each piece of information is on an individual line, arranged in a neat
list, already paraphrased, similar to the old notecard method to avoid
accidental plagarism). If you start each line with, say, the page number of
the information you're citing, then that's both a good marker for each data
point, if you later want to add another note you noticed, just search for
the page numbers where it belongs and add it in, and you'll need those page
numbers for your in-line parenthetical citation. So, all the sources for
that paper are in one accessible document that you can review later if you
need to refresh your memory, where all the info for each source is in its
original logical (i.e., word/language) arrangment, and you can include
whatever you need to make that a works cited. So, I think of it as a
Bibliography with notes.
It's simple, accessible, needs no special software, is searchable, and
helps with good research method (e.g., you paraphrase the same way you
would with notecards, to digest and synthesize, rather than copy or
plagarize content, or over generalize from a broad reading that cannot be
traced back to specific citeable points in the source), and for someone
like me, without a steel trap mind, it is a pretty good way to keep all
that information straight in my mind, especially when sources are similar,
and so I can read, take notes, digest everything to get the big picture,
construct my argument/outline, and still be able to go back and find my
supporting details.
Is that any help?

-Glenn Moore III
State Secretary,
National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
(find our calendar at nfbofillinois.org/?page_id=158)
nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org>   "Live the Life You Want"
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From crystalplemmons at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 05:37:38 2015
From: crystalplemmons at gmail.com (Crystal Plemmons)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 01:37:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] research and accomodations
In-Reply-To: <E1008AC81A0547CCB098A5FCB1C4BE32@OwnerPC>
References: <CAAxfxEBivOQGg8RQZv6FXkN27JNFWRC-6EEZMLiYVtO9Fr2pug@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1008AC81A0547CCB098A5FCB1C4BE32@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <887180E2-0925-4E45-B5FA-2363A4783466@gmail.com>

Hi Ashley,

You can format the titles as headings. Then use the Jaws command for navigating by heading in MS Word. I don't remember it off the top of my head, but someone else might. I'll Check for you tomorrow if no one chimes in. 

crystal

**Sent From Crystal's IPhone** 

On Sep 1, 2015, at 1:18 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hi Glen,

I have central vision but never used sighted research methods of organization although I was exposed to them from high school classes; probably from history and english.
I've always used braille and jaws.

Anyways, yes that was helpful, and I'm glad someone else struggled with organizing due to the multiple sources, some of which have similar titles, similar info, or similar authors.

I currently have been using Word for my citations which I write down manually. I do these records as I find sources. I take entries out if I find the source is not relevant.
I used my braille note for writing my notes. But I find they are too long and generalized; and I think this is a learning style for me; I need to write to remember and pay attention as I listen to a reader or synthesized speech.
So, I overwrite  things and then feel overwelmed. I could do what you do by making brief notes in a Word file under each citation and have another file for just citations.

I like the idea of having one idea or paraphrased fact per line.
Its so true that going by line or paragraph makes it easier to skim.

However, I can just see the file getting rather big!
Is there ways to divide up the file to search it? For instance a way to put in bookmarks?
Another idea I had was to label my sources with letters which works if I have 26 or less and I doubt I will have over 26 ever, unless I'm a doctoral student. I could then write what source coresponds to each letter and search by letter in the file. Maybe for you all using low vision reading, using different colors of text would help you skim for material.

Thanks for sharing, and best of luck with any research you do!

Ashley


-----Original Message----- From: Glenn III via nabs-l
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 12:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Glenn III
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research and accomodations

Hi Ashley.
You had a lot of questions, so I hope this is useful for some of what you
were asking about organizing information for citation.
for a quick background, I am high-partial, and in school, I was taught to
use sighted research methods; using a notecard for each
point/note/citation, paraphrase the note, collect cards together, etc.
Returning to college many years later, I found that method wouldn't work
both because I couldn't see what I used to, and everything now being
electronic, I'd prefer an electronic (and accessible) method. the biggest
logistical challenge is, like you say, when different sources have similar
information that is hard to recall and keep straight. What I've found works
pretty well (at least when I have a paper that I have enough time to
research more leaseurly, and which I know pretty specifically what I'm
looking for is this.
I start with picking good sources, then in a document file (I use MS Word,
but a simple text file may work even better for you, so, I'll use text for
the example), I'd make basically an indented paragraph for each source,
then below the line identifying the source, I can take notes as I review
the source material. every point i think worth noting, I make a new line
and write the note (which works well for finding that point later, since
each piece of information is on an individual line, arranged in a neat
list, already paraphrased, similar to the old notecard method to avoid
accidental plagarism). If you start each line with, say, the page number of
the information you're citing, then that's both a good marker for each data
point, if you later want to add another note you noticed, just search for
the page numbers where it belongs and add it in, and you'll need those page
numbers for your in-line parenthetical citation. So, all the sources for
that paper are in one accessible document that you can review later if you
need to refresh your memory, where all the info for each source is in its
original logical (i.e., word/language) arrangment, and you can include
whatever you need to make that a works cited. So, I think of it as a
Bibliography with notes.
It's simple, accessible, needs no special software, is searchable, and
helps with good research method (e.g., you paraphrase the same way you
would with notecards, to digest and synthesize, rather than copy or
plagarize content, or over generalize from a broad reading that cannot be
traced back to specific citeable points in the source), and for someone
like me, without a steel trap mind, it is a pretty good way to keep all
that information straight in my mind, especially when sources are similar,
and so I can read, take notes, digest everything to get the big picture,
construct my argument/outline, and still be able to go back and find my
supporting details.
Is that any help?

-Glenn Moore III
State Secretary,
National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
(find our calendar at nfbofillinois.org/?page_id=158)
nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org>   "Live the Life You Want"
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crystalplemmons%40gmail.com


From djackson at BISM.org  Tue Sep  1 12:29:39 2015
From: djackson at BISM.org (Dezman Jackson)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 12:29:39 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] research and accomodations
In-Reply-To: <887180E2-0925-4E45-B5FA-2363A4783466@gmail.com>
References: <CAAxfxEBivOQGg8RQZv6FXkN27JNFWRC-6EEZMLiYVtO9Fr2pug@mail.gmail.com>
	<E1008AC81A0547CCB098A5FCB1C4BE32@OwnerPC>
	<887180E2-0925-4E45-B5FA-2363A4783466@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <664916DD3FF58F45BF6F434E6676E7FB54133D25@BLINDEXCHANGE.BISM.com>

I believe you have to turn on quick keys in Word with Control+Z, then just hit the letter h to go forward in the headings and shift+H to go backward.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Crystal Plemmons via nabs-l
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 1:38 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Crystal Plemmons
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research and accomodations

Hi Ashley,

You can format the titles as headings. Then use the Jaws command for navigating by heading in MS Word. I don't remember it off the top of my head, but someone else might. I'll Check for you tomorrow if no one chimes in. 

crystal

**Sent From Crystal's IPhone** 

On Sep 1, 2015, at 1:18 AM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

Hi Glen,

I have central vision but never used sighted research methods of organization although I was exposed to them from high school classes; probably from history and english.
I've always used braille and jaws.

Anyways, yes that was helpful, and I'm glad someone else struggled with organizing due to the multiple sources, some of which have similar titles, similar info, or similar authors.

I currently have been using Word for my citations which I write down manually. I do these records as I find sources. I take entries out if I find the source is not relevant.
I used my braille note for writing my notes. But I find they are too long and generalized; and I think this is a learning style for me; I need to write to remember and pay attention as I listen to a reader or synthesized speech.
So, I overwrite  things and then feel overwelmed. I could do what you do by making brief notes in a Word file under each citation and have another file for just citations.

I like the idea of having one idea or paraphrased fact per line.
Its so true that going by line or paragraph makes it easier to skim.

However, I can just see the file getting rather big!
Is there ways to divide up the file to search it? For instance a way to put in bookmarks?
Another idea I had was to label my sources with letters which works if I have 26 or less and I doubt I will have over 26 ever, unless I'm a doctoral student. I could then write what source coresponds to each letter and search by letter in the file. Maybe for you all using low vision reading, using different colors of text would help you skim for material.

Thanks for sharing, and best of luck with any research you do!

Ashley


-----Original Message----- From: Glenn III via nabs-l
Sent: Tuesday, September 01, 2015 12:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Glenn III
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] research and accomodations

Hi Ashley.
You had a lot of questions, so I hope this is useful for some of what you were asking about organizing information for citation.
for a quick background, I am high-partial, and in school, I was taught to use sighted research methods; using a notecard for each point/note/citation, paraphrase the note, collect cards together, etc.
Returning to college many years later, I found that method wouldn't work both because I couldn't see what I used to, and everything now being electronic, I'd prefer an electronic (and accessible) method. the biggest logistical challenge is, like you say, when different sources have similar information that is hard to recall and keep straight. What I've found works pretty well (at least when I have a paper that I have enough time to research more leaseurly, and which I know pretty specifically what I'm looking for is this.
I start with picking good sources, then in a document file (I use MS Word, but a simple text file may work even better for you, so, I'll use text for the example), I'd make basically an indented paragraph for each source, then below the line identifying the source, I can take notes as I review the source material. every point i think worth noting, I make a new line and write the note (which works well for finding that point later, since each piece of information is on an individual line, arranged in a neat list, already paraphrased, similar to the old notecard method to avoid accidental plagarism). If you start each line with, say, the page number of the information you're citing, then that's both a good marker for each data point, if you later want to add another note you noticed, just search for the page numbers where it belongs and add it in, and you'll need those page numbers for your in-line parenthetical citation. So, all the sources for that paper are in one accessible document that you can review later if you need to refresh your memory, where all the info for each source is in its original logical (i.e., word/language) arrangment, and you can include whatever you need to make that a works cited. So, I think of it as a Bibliography with notes.
It's simple, accessible, needs no special software, is searchable, and helps with good research method (e.g., you paraphrase the same way you would with notecards, to digest and synthesize, rather than copy or plagarize content, or over generalize from a broad reading that cannot be traced back to specific citeable points in the source), and for someone like me, without a steel trap mind, it is a pretty good way to keep all that information straight in my mind, especially when sources are similar, and so I can read, take notes, digest everything to get the big picture, construct my argument/outline, and still be able to go back and find my supporting details.
Is that any help?

-Glenn Moore III
State Secretary,
National Federation of the Blind of Illinois (find our calendar at nfbofillinois.org/?page_id=158)
nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org>   "Live the Life You Want"
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 

_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crystalplemmons%40gmail.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/djackson%40bism.org


From filerime at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 12:39:20 2015
From: filerime at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RWxpZiBFbWlyIMOWa3PDvHo=?=)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 08:39:20 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] I pad users
Message-ID: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
I am a doctoral student, and my laptop battery is dying. I am thinking
about buying an I pad and use it for note taking and reading in class.
Probably I need to have an external keyboard.
I am wondering if anyone does this. I am so used to jaws. Thus I am a
little bit hesitant. While reading, is it easy to navigate between the
lines, paragraphs and pages?


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 13:44:15 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (rbacchus228 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 09:44:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] I pad users
In-Reply-To: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <D348C278-73D5-4910-AE61-36A530BF8564@gmail.com>

I use my note taker in my classes and for my homework.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 1, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Elif Emir Öksüz via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I am a doctoral student, and my laptop battery is dying. I am thinking
> about buying an I pad and use it for note taking and reading in class.
> Probably I need to have an external keyboard.
> I am wondering if anyone does this. I am so used to jaws. Thus I am a
> little bit hesitant. While reading, is it easy to navigate between the
> lines, paragraphs and pages?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com


From mhmdrizvi8 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 13:45:18 2015
From: mhmdrizvi8 at gmail.com (Syed M Rizvi)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 09:45:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] I pad users
In-Reply-To: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F4C03593-F5C4-4772-8860-2764DAEEA52F@gmail.com>

Hi Elif, 
 I use a laptop with jaws, and I also have an iPad with an external braille keyboard. I preferred the laptop with Jaws, I don't think a tablet with an external keyboard can ever replace the usability of a laptop.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 1, 2015, at 8:39 AM, Elif Emir Öksüz via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I am a doctoral student, and my laptop battery is dying. I am thinking
> about buying an I pad and use it for note taking and reading in class.
> Probably I need to have an external keyboard.
> I am wondering if anyone does this. I am so used to jaws. Thus I am a
> little bit hesitant. While reading, is it easy to navigate between the
> lines, paragraphs and pages?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mhmdrizvi8%40gmail.com


From herekittykat97 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  1 16:05:39 2015
From: herekittykat97 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 12:05:39 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] I pad users
In-Reply-To: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E991DB3A-63E8-4C6A-A5C8-C8029E892B85@gmail.com>

> 
Hi there! I use my iPhone as a notetaker and reader for classes almost exclusively, because my laptop is too heavy for my back. I would highly recommend getting Voice Dream Reader and Writer, which are the apps I use for notetaking and reading. They are ten dollars each, but well worth it. With the reader app, you can read by line, paragraph, sentence, or continuously with human like voices. The writer app has a file manager and will let you export your notes in several formats. 
In class, you will want a bluetooth keyboard. I recommend a small one like the folding keyboard from Brookstone, which will fit on those tiny side desks. You may also want to invest in a bluetooth ear piece so you don't have to deal with any wires. 
If you use your iPad as a notetaker, remember to turn off wifi and if possible for you, turn on the screen curtain. This will save the battery. In this way, I can have my iPhone out and take notes for four hour long classes, plus check email and read material between classes. 
The only problem I foresee in using the iPad exclusively is that if your school uses blackboard, you cannot transfer files from the blackboard app to other apps. 
It is worth trying if you think you can use your laptop at home to get blackboard door files if your school uses that. 
You are welcome to contact me off list if you have any questions about apps or how I keep up with notes and materials for class. 
Jewel 

From mikgephart at icloud.com  Tue Sep  1 19:24:15 2015
From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 15:24:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Ncabs] TIMES RUNNING OUT: REGISTER FOR OUR 2015
	STATE CONVENTION!
References: <03d201d0e47d$3c31b580$b4952080$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <DA01DE92-0B5C-4921-81AA-6AEF946763E2@icloud.com>



Sent from my iPad

Begin forwarded message:

> From: Kathryn Webster via Ncabs <ncabs at nfbnet.org>
> Date: September 1, 2015 at 2:12:52 AM EDT
> To: ncabs at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Kathryn Webster <kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com>
> Subject: [Ncabs] TIMES RUNNING OUT: REGISTER FOR OUR 2015 STATE CONVENTION!
> Reply-To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List <ncabs at nfbnet.org>
> 
> Good evening fellow Carolinians:
> 
>                Just a friendly reminder that in order to get the discount
> on registration, you must register by September 10th.
> 
> In order to register, go to nfb of nc's homepage.
> 
> Please let me know if you have any questions; and I look forward to
> connecting with you all in just over two weeks!
> 
> 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Kathryn Webster
> 
> President | North Carolina Association of Blind Students
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Ncabs mailing list
> Ncabs at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ncabs_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Ncabs:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ncabs_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com

From mikgephart at icloud.com  Tue Sep  1 19:30:15 2015
From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 15:30:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: [Ncabs] TIMES RUNNING OUT: REGISTER FOR OUR
	2015	STATE CONVENTION!
In-Reply-To: <DA01DE92-0B5C-4921-81AA-6AEF946763E2@icloud.com>
References: <03d201d0e47d$3c31b580$b4952080$@gmail.com>
	<DA01DE92-0B5C-4921-81AA-6AEF946763E2@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <02E7BE7F-547F-4372-B32D-92B66C4AEB31@icloud.com>

That was a mistake. Sorry about that.
YSent from my iPad

> On Sep 1, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Mikayla Gephart via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> Begin forwarded message:
> 
>> From: Kathryn Webster via Ncabs <ncabs at nfbnet.org>
>> Date: September 1, 2015 at 2:12:52 AM EDT
>> To: ncabs at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Kathryn Webster <kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com>
>> Subject: [Ncabs] TIMES RUNNING OUT: REGISTER FOR OUR 2015 STATE CONVENTION!
>> Reply-To: North Carolina Association of Blind Students List <ncabs at nfbnet.org>
>> 
>> Good evening fellow Carolinians:
>> 
>>               Just a friendly reminder that in order to get the discount
>> on registration, you must register by September 10th.
>> 
>> In order to register, go to nfb of nc's homepage.
>> 
>> Please let me know if you have any questions; and I look forward to
>> connecting with you all in just over two weeks!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Kathryn Webster
>> 
>> President | North Carolina Association of Blind Students
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ncabs mailing list
>> Ncabs at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/ncabs_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for Ncabs:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/ncabs_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com


From filerime at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 00:07:39 2015
From: filerime at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?RWxpZiBFbWlyIMOWa3PDvHo=?=)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 20:07:39 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] I pad users
In-Reply-To: <E991DB3A-63E8-4C6A-A5C8-C8029E892B85@gmail.com>
References: <CAMtP_9e=0+BEjNGYv-dMUi71_GzrWhWnMw2EToHBjnueNLLCQA@mail.gmail.com>
	<E991DB3A-63E8-4C6A-A5C8-C8029E892B85@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMtP_9dcTFz0H7wx+m+DLX2070JSwX3mVgP72H0_C-xybVXB7A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
thank you for sharing your experiences. Jewel I have an Iphone and
I'll try the apps.
Thank you for your comprehensive e-mail.
I'll let you know if I have any questions about these.


2015-09-01 12:05 GMT-04:00, Jewel via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>:
>>
> Hi there! I use my iPhone as a notetaker and reader for classes almost
> exclusively, because my laptop is too heavy for my back. I would highly
> recommend getting Voice Dream Reader and Writer, which are the apps I use
> for notetaking and reading. They are ten dollars each, but well worth it.
> With the reader app, you can read by line, paragraph, sentence, or
> continuously with human like voices. The writer app has a file manager and
> will let you export your notes in several formats.
> In class, you will want a bluetooth keyboard. I recommend a small one like
> the folding keyboard from Brookstone, which will fit on those tiny side
> desks. You may also want to invest in a bluetooth ear piece so you don't
> have to deal with any wires.
> If you use your iPad as a notetaker, remember to turn off wifi and if
> possible for you, turn on the screen curtain. This will save the battery. In
> this way, I can have my iPhone out and take notes for four hour long
> classes, plus check email and read material between classes.
> The only problem I foresee in using the iPad exclusively is that if your
> school uses blackboard, you cannot transfer files from the blackboard app to
> other apps.
> It is worth trying if you think you can use your laptop at home to get
> blackboard door files if your school uses that.
> You are welcome to contact me off list if you have any questions about apps
> or how I keep up with notes and materials for class.
> Jewel
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/filerime%40gmail.com
>


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 01:16:41 2015
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2015 21:16:41 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] research and accomodations
In-Reply-To: <CAAxfxEBivOQGg8RQZv6FXkN27JNFWRC-6EEZMLiYVtO9Fr2pug@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAAxfxEBivOQGg8RQZv6FXkN27JNFWRC-6EEZMLiYVtO9Fr2pug@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EC64DFE6-89F6-447D-B386-5F483E8973DF@gmail.com>

I really like this description of how to take effective notes while doing research. Taking the time to do this during a first read saves so much time and effort when writing your paper. 

As for generating citations, there are several free online citation generators. One of these is EasyBib but I’m sure there are others. Some require a subscription to save info over several sessions, but you may have access to that through your school library. Otherwise, you can just generate the citations and save them in a word document for later use. 

Best,

Greg
> On Sep 1, 2015, at 12:44 AM, Glenn III via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Ashley.
> You had a lot of questions, so I hope this is useful for some of what you
> were asking about organizing information for citation.
> for a quick background, I am high-partial, and in school, I was taught to
> use sighted research methods; using a notecard for each
> point/note/citation, paraphrase the note, collect cards together, etc.
> Returning to college many years later, I found that method wouldn't work
> both because I couldn't see what I used to, and everything now being
> electronic, I'd prefer an electronic (and accessible) method. the biggest
> logistical challenge is, like you say, when different sources have similar
> information that is hard to recall and keep straight. What I've found works
> pretty well (at least when I have a paper that I have enough time to
> research more leaseurly, and which I know pretty specifically what I'm
> looking for is this.
> I start with picking good sources, then in a document file (I use MS Word,
> but a simple text file may work even better for you, so, I'll use text for
> the example), I'd make basically an indented paragraph for each source,
> then below the line identifying the source, I can take notes as I review
> the source material. every point i think worth noting, I make a new line
> and write the note (which works well for finding that point later, since
> each piece of information is on an individual line, arranged in a neat
> list, already paraphrased, similar to the old notecard method to avoid
> accidental plagarism). If you start each line with, say, the page number of
> the information you're citing, then that's both a good marker for each data
> point, if you later want to add another note you noticed, just search for
> the page numbers where it belongs and add it in, and you'll need those page
> numbers for your in-line parenthetical citation. So, all the sources for
> that paper are in one accessible document that you can review later if you
> need to refresh your memory, where all the info for each source is in its
> original logical (i.e., word/language) arrangment, and you can include
> whatever you need to make that a works cited. So, I think of it as a
> Bibliography with notes.
> It's simple, accessible, needs no special software, is searchable, and
> helps with good research method (e.g., you paraphrase the same way you
> would with notecards, to digest and synthesize, rather than copy or
> plagarize content, or over generalize from a broad reading that cannot be
> traced back to specific citeable points in the source), and for someone
> like me, without a steel trap mind, it is a pretty good way to keep all
> that information straight in my mind, especially when sources are similar,
> and so I can read, take notes, digest everything to get the big picture,
> construct my argument/outline, and still be able to go back and find my
> supporting details.
> Is that any help?
> 
> -Glenn Moore III
> State Secretary,
> National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
> (find our calendar at nfbofillinois.org/?page_id=158)
> nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org>   "Live the Life You Want"
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Sep  2 02:46:10 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2015 21:46:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] YouTube Star Expert Advocate Joins WE Fit Wellness Team
Message-ID: <auto-000034925555@mailfront2.g2host.com>

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Ivoryanna McDonald WE Fit Wellness 
866-543-6808 Ext. 10 Ivoryanna.McDonald at worleyenterprises.com



YouTube Star Expert Advocate Joins WE Fit Wellness Team

Colorado Springs, Colorado (September 1, 2015). Today, 
<http://www.wefitwellness.com/>WE Fit Wellness announced the addition 
of Maureen Neitfeld to their team of expert advocates. Neitfeld stars 
on her own YouTube channel, 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUtfS9hwT0g>Breaking Blind, which 
has nearly 10,000 subscribers and climbing. WE Fit Wellness is 
launching a multimedia initiative, which will include podcasts, 
community radio, WE Can Culture workshops, and the Breaking Blind 
YouTube channel. In January of 2015, WE Fit Wellness launched its 
programs to bring exercise and nutrition options to underserved 
communities. These programs have been greeted with great enthusiasm, 
particularly by individuals with disabilities.

WE Fit Wellness Executive Director, Jessica Beecham said, "It has 
been absolutely wonderful to play in this space. We are building and 
connecting a community around total fitness education and the 
motivation to re-create one's self.  We have offered solutions, beta 
tested products, and conducted numerous workshops and seminars." 
Jessica continued, "Maureen Neitfeld's Breaking Blind YouTube channel 
will help us increase our reach. She brings unparalleled expertise, 
passion, and an extraordinary story of perseverance and success."

On Breaking Blind, soon to be rebranded, WE Fit Wellness Breaking 
Blind, Maureen confronts stereotypes about blindness, breaks through 
misconceptions, and motivates others with her approach to health and 
wellness. Maureen lives a full, rewarding life, teaching home 
management to blind and vision-impaired students at the 
<http://coloradocenterfortheblind.org>Colorado Center for the Blind. 
She is a living example of the Center's "take charge with confidence" 
approach to training. Maureen has undergone more than 30 surgeries as 
a result of Von Hippel-Lindau disease. Von Hippel-Lindau syndrome 
(VHL) is a hereditary condition associated with hemangioblastomas, 
which are blood vessel tumors of the brain, spinal cord, and eye. The 
eye tumors are also called retinal angiomas. VHL took Maureen's sight 
at the age of 16.

Maureen explained, "I persevere through willpower, love from family, 
a commitment to diet, exercise, yoga, and by maintaining a positive 
attitude. Joining the WE Fit Wellness team is an honor and a 
tremendous opportunity to encourage everyone to find their fit. The 
Breaking Blind YouTube channel will continue to personify the right 
of all people to live in the world on terms of equality. Or as the 
<http://www.nfb.org/>National Federation of the Blind exclaims, 'to 
live the life you want.' We will break barriers, inspire, and have a 
lot of fun doing it!" Maureen continued, "Breaking Blind on YouTube 
will also offer us the opportunity to feature inspiring stories of 
Paralympians working with the <http://www.usaba.org/>United States 
Association of Blind Athletes."

For more information, contact Jessica Beecham by phone at (866) 
543-6808 ext. 15 or by email at 
<mailto:jessica at wefitwellness.com>jessica at wefitwellness.com.

<http://www.facebook.com/wefitwellness>
[]
<http://www.twitter.com/wefitwellness>  <http://www.twitter.com/wefitwellness>
[]
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/9265263?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1422914920597%2Ctas%3AWE%20Fit%20Wellness%2Cidx%3A1-1-1> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/9265263?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1422914920597%2Ctas%3AWE%20Fit%20Wellness%2Cidx%3A1-1-1>
[]
    <mailto:jessica at wefitwellness.com>
[]





FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE CONTACT: Ivoryanna McDonald WE Fit Wellness 
866-543-6808 Ext. 10 Ivoryanna.McDonald at worleyenterprises.com



YouTube Star Expert Advocate Joins WE Fit Wellness Team

Colorado Springs, Colorado (September 1, 2015). Today, 
<http://www.wefitwellness.com/>WE Fit Wellness announced the addition 
of Maureen Neitfeld to their team of expert advocates. Neitfeld stars 
on her own YouTube channel, 
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUtfS9hwT0g>Breaking Blind, which 
has nearly 10,000 subscribers and climbing. WE Fit Wellness is 
launching a multimedia initiative, which will include podcasts, 
community radio, WE Can Culture workshops, and the Breaking Blind 
YouTube channel. In January of 2015, WE Fit Wellness launched its 
programs to bring exercise and nutrition options to underserved 
communities. These programs have been greeted with great enthusiasm, 
particularly by individuals with disabilities.

WE Fit Wellness Executive Director, Jessica Beecham said, "It has 
been absolutely wonderful to play in this space. We are building and 
connecting a community around total fitness education and the 
motivation to re-create one's self.  We have offered solutions, beta 
tested products, and conducted numerous workshops and seminars." 
Jessica continued, "Maureen Neitfeld's Breaking Blind YouTube channel 
will help us increase our reach. She brings unparalleled expertise, 
passion, and an extraordinary story of perseverance and success."

On Breaking Blind, soon to be rebranded, WE Fit Wellness Breaking 
Blind, Maureen confronts stereotypes about blindness, breaks through 
misconceptions, and motivates others with her approach to health and 
wellness. Maureen lives a full, rewarding life, teaching home 
management to blind and vision-impaired students at the 
<http://coloradocenterfortheblind.org>Colorado Center for the Blind. 
She is a living example of the Center's "take charge with confidence" 
approach to training. Maureen has undergone more than 30 surgeries as 
a result of Von Hippel-Lindau disease. Von Hippel-Lindau syndrome 
(VHL) is a hereditary condition associated with hemangioblastomas, 
which are blood vessel tumors of the brain, spinal cord, and eye. The 
eye tumors are also called retinal angiomas. VHL took Maureen's sight 
at the age of 16.

Maureen explained, "I persevere through willpower, love from family, 
a commitment to diet, exercise, yoga, and by maintaining a positive 
attitude. Joining the WE Fit Wellness team is an honor and a 
tremendous opportunity to encourage everyone to find their fit. The 
Breaking Blind YouTube channel will continue to personify the right 
of all people to live in the world on terms of equality. Or as the 
<http://www.nfb.org/>National Federation of the Blind exclaims, 'to 
live the life you want.' We will break barriers, inspire, and have a 
lot of fun doing it!" Maureen continued, "Breaking Blind on YouTube 
will also offer us the opportunity to feature inspiring stories of 
Paralympians working with the <http://www.usaba.org/>United States 
Association of Blind Athletes."

For more information, contact Jessica Beecham by phone at (866) 
543-6808 ext. 15 or by email at 
<mailto:jessica at wefitwellness.com>jessica at wefitwellness.com.

<http://www.facebook.com/wefitwellness>
[]
<http://www.twitter.com/wefitwellness>  <http://www.twitter.com/wefitwellness>
[]
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/9265263?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1422914920597%2Ctas%3AWE%20Fit%20Wellness%2Cidx%3A1-1-1> 
<https://www.linkedin.com/company/9265263?trk=tyah&trkInfo=tarId%3A1422914920597%2Ctas%3AWE%20Fit%20Wellness%2Cidx%3A1-1-1>
[]
    <mailto:jessica at wefitwellness.com>
[]











         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
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From mkvnfb94 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 17:16:28 2015
From: mkvnfb94 at gmail.com (mkvnfb94 at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 12:16:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] College issue, please help!
Message-ID: <7981CE5E-81C4-44F3-8E56-624E03FCF983@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPad
Hi, I started college at Normandale Community College in Bloomington, Minnesota last week. I am taking a pre-college course in math in order to refresh my my high level math skills. This course uses a new website that may sound familiar to you, Aleks spelled ALEKS, not Alex like the name. It is accessible as far as navigation, but with there new interface, doing the problems is cumbersome because while the buttons are labeled, the access to there content is impossible with NVDA, VoiceOver, or JAWS. Meaning, when it comes to actually activating the button and putting in a fraction or some thing of that natre, for example, is cumbersome. I and the Normandale staff have told these people these issues, and they did put me on the older interface that was supposedly more accessible, which, it is as far as equations, but when it comes to intering fractions or sqare roots, for example, using the buttons for them, or entering the answers in to the box indicated, is impossible, still. Not to mention, when it comes to graphs or number lines, I have to have some one work with me on those particular problems because those areas are definitely accessible. Do you guys have any other alternatives to doing math with a website like the one mentioned above that is a lot more accessible than this one, that you have used to do math in college successfully? That would be greatly appreciated.  

From sgermano at asu.edu  Wed Sep  2 17:41:02 2015
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 10:41:02 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Openbook question
Message-ID: <CAF=_avfReXMsc5VrdVw1kGnZio3cf-Z6uFmDdUJdXuaFyKWoiw@mail.gmail.com>

How do you just make it start reading and continue? I can down arrow for
one line at a time but I have not found the command to just "go"

I am using a macbook with Windows 8.1 virtual machine so there is no number
pad

thanks

From christgirl813 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 18:34:03 2015
From: christgirl813 at gmail.com (Kayla James)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 11:34:03 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] College issue, please help!
In-Reply-To: <7981CE5E-81C4-44F3-8E56-624E03FCF983@gmail.com>
References: <7981CE5E-81C4-44F3-8E56-624E03FCF983@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAP4F+WWvua9Vbz2q6msHJf+kFoUm=iZMNB=Mce+eqDFPFMtNsw@mail.gmail.com>

I am taking an Accounting course at my community college in Illinois.
I am having a similar issure but with a different program altogether.
Have you gone to technical support? If you have and it still doesn't
work out, maybe you and your professor can sit down and discuss
different alternatives to do your work until you can find another
program that can help.

On 9/2/15, Mariya Vasileva via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>
> Sent from my iPad
> Hi, I started college at Normandale Community College in Bloomington,
> Minnesota last week. I am taking a pre-college course in math in order to
> refresh my my high level math skills. This course uses a new website that
> may sound familiar to you, Aleks spelled ALEKS, not Alex like the name. It
> is accessible as far as navigation, but with there new interface, doing the
> problems is cumbersome because while the buttons are labeled, the access to
> there content is impossible with NVDA, VoiceOver, or JAWS. Meaning, when it
> comes to actually activating the button and putting in a fraction or some
> thing of that natre, for example, is cumbersome. I and the Normandale staff
> have told these people these issues, and they did put me on the older
> interface that was supposedly more accessible, which, it is as far as
> equations, but when it comes to intering fractions or sqare roots, for
> example, using the buttons for them, or entering the answers in to the box
> indicated, is impossible, still. Not to mention, when it comes to graphs or
> number lines, I have to have some one work with me on those particular
> problems because those areas are definitely accessible. Do you guys have any
> other alternatives to doing math with a website like the one mentioned above
> that is a lot more accessible than this one, that you have used to do math
> in college successfully? That would be greatly appreciated.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christgirl813%40gmail.com
>


From rollercoasterman86 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 18:35:31 2015
From: rollercoasterman86 at gmail.com (andrew edgcumbe)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 14:35:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] question on callerado
Message-ID: <CAGcQ9RYL_D5PCd8r=1r-AzLGxhSDnBq8bnpoSR1eO=GCdNHUxQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi i am just posting a question on behalf of a friend in collerado. he has
no computer access and limited phone access but anyway he is in a not so
good living situation and is trying to get on medicade things like that. He
has been  in a vocational program. i am from canada but a blind friend is
helping with making calls or will be.  anyway what is there in way of
hausing in callerado?  also what programs over all is there for  the blind
down there.  like what kind of resources would abvailable to him.  i don't
have name of city or i would say that he said he is not far from a city.

From mkvnfb94 at gmail.com  Wed Sep  2 19:18:04 2015
From: mkvnfb94 at gmail.com (Mariya Vasileva)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 14:18:04 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] College issue, please help!
In-Reply-To: <CAP4F+WWvua9Vbz2q6msHJf+kFoUm=iZMNB=Mce+eqDFPFMtNsw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <7981CE5E-81C4-44F3-8E56-624E03FCF983@gmail.com>
	<CAP4F+WWvua9Vbz2q6msHJf+kFoUm=iZMNB=Mce+eqDFPFMtNsw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E643D5D-1AA9-4AFF-8644-89FB9B25844B@gmail.com>



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 2, 2015, at 13:34, Kayla James via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I am taking an Accounting course at my community college in Illinois.
> I am having a similar issure but with a different program altogether.
> Have you gone to technical support? If you have and it still doesn't
> work out, maybe you and your professor can sit down and discuss
> different alternatives to do your work until you can find another
> program that can help.
> 
>> On 9/2/15, Mariya Vasileva via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> Hi, I started college at Normandale Community College in Bloomington,
>> Minnesota last week. I am taking a pre-college course in math in order to
>> refresh my my high level math skills. This course uses a new website that
>> may sound familiar to you, Aleks spelled ALEKS, not Alex like the name. It
>> is accessible as far as navigation, but with there new interface, doing the
>> problems is cumbersome because while the buttons are labeled, the access to
>> there content is impossible with NVDA, VoiceOver, or JAWS. Meaning, when it
>> comes to actually activating the button and putting in a fraction or some
>> thing of that natre, for example, is cumbersome. I and the Normandale staff
>> have told these people these issues, and they did put me on the older
>> interface that was supposedly more accessible, which, it is as far as
>> equations, but when it comes to intering fractions or sqare roots, for
>> example, using the buttons for them, or entering the answers in to the box
>> indicated, is impossible, still. Not to mention, when it comes to graphs or
>> number lines, I have to have some one work with me on those particular
>> problems because those areas are definitely accessible. Do you guys have any
>> other alternatives to doing math with a website like the one mentioned above
>> that is a lot more accessible than this one, that you have used to do math
>> in college successfully? That would be greatly appreciated.
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christgirl813%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
Hi, we already did that. And I was thinking of using Khaun Academy for a little bit, and a couple of APH supplies, but, I feel like I need to use a more web approach because the website to do the math is a different environment and I want to learn the new environment and do it on an equal level. That's the issue. Is there any other source that is more reliable  in this kind of situation?

From clearinghouse at miusa.org  Wed Sep  2 20:42:59 2015
From: clearinghouse at miusa.org (NCDE Clearinghouse)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 13:42:59 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] #BlindAbroad podcast new episode
Message-ID: <000201d0e5bf$f4f2a000$ded7e000$@miusa.org>

Hi students!

We have just released a new #BlindAbroad series episode for our Ripple
Effects: Travelers with Disabilities Abroad podcast.

 

Below are the links of the 5 episodes that are available. Make sure to
subscribe and share!

 

Episode 5: Disability Culture: Turkey to Stanford
<http://www.miusa.org/resource/podcast/erdem> 

Episode 4: Fulbright Impact and Access
<http://www.miusa.org/resource/podcast/christie> 

Episode 3:  <http://www.miusa.org/resource/podcast/rippleeffects/juanita>
"Blind People Can Do That?"

Episode 2: Preparing for a Reaction
<http://www.miusa.org/resource/podcast/rippleeffects/nick2> 

Episode 1: 10 Tactile Tips for Navigating Abroad
<http://www.miusa.org/resource/podcast/rippleeffects/nick1> 

 

You can listen on Soundcloud to all episodes:
https://soundcloud.com/mobilityinternationalusa/

 

Subscribe with iTunes:
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/ripple-effects/id1009426619?mt=2

 

Access the RSS feed: http://miusa.libsyn.com/rss

 

Make sure to tune in and share!

Best,

Monica 

 

Monica Malhotra

Project Coordinator, National Clearinghouse on Disability and Exchange

Mobility International USA (MIUSA)

132 E Broadway, Suite 343

Eugene, Oregon 97401 USA

(541) 343-1284 ext 27

Email: mmalhotra at miusa.org <mailto:mmalhotra at miusa.org> 

Web: www.miusa.org <http://www.miusa.org> 

Are you a MIUSA alum? Complete our survey to stay in touch, or share it with
your fellow alumni! Visit http://ow.ly/NQmgY  

 

Empowering people with disabilities around the world to achieve their human
rights through international exchange and international development.

 


From kestomberg at coe.edu  Wed Sep  2 22:25:43 2015
From: kestomberg at coe.edu (STOMBERG, KENNEDY)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 17:25:43 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] College issue, please help!
In-Reply-To: <5E643D5D-1AA9-4AFF-8644-89FB9B25844B@gmail.com>
References: <7981CE5E-81C4-44F3-8E56-624E03FCF983@gmail.com>
	<CAP4F+WWvua9Vbz2q6msHJf+kFoUm=iZMNB=Mce+eqDFPFMtNsw@mail.gmail.com>
	<5E643D5D-1AA9-4AFF-8644-89FB9B25844B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANvQTY6KhpBCg8w=7qm9X3DZx9gZacjczMGv65WBEdBjbMJcBg@mail.gmail.com>

As much as it sucks, the reality is that math is super visual, no matter
what. Have you tried talking to the Disability Services Cordinator at your
college about posibly getting a sighted assistant to help you with problems
on this website? It might be easier for you, and many older students enjoy
the opurtunity, especially because many Disabbility Services offiaes will
pay them! Try that, and see if it works.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 2:18 PM, Mariya Vasileva via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 2, 2015, at 13:34, Kayla James via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > I am taking an Accounting course at my community college in Illinois.
> > I am having a similar issure but with a different program altogether.
> > Have you gone to technical support? If you have and it still doesn't
> > work out, maybe you and your professor can sit down and discuss
> > different alternatives to do your work until you can find another
> > program that can help.
> >
> >> On 9/2/15, Mariya Vasileva via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >> Hi, I started college at Normandale Community College in Bloomington,
> >> Minnesota last week. I am taking a pre-college course in math in order
> to
> >> refresh my my high level math skills. This course uses a new website
> that
> >> may sound familiar to you, Aleks spelled ALEKS, not Alex like the name.
> It
> >> is accessible as far as navigation, but with there new interface, doing
> the
> >> problems is cumbersome because while the buttons are labeled, the
> access to
> >> there content is impossible with NVDA, VoiceOver, or JAWS. Meaning,
> when it
> >> comes to actually activating the button and putting in a fraction or
> some
> >> thing of that natre, for example, is cumbersome. I and the Normandale
> staff
> >> have told these people these issues, and they did put me on the older
> >> interface that was supposedly more accessible, which, it is as far as
> >> equations, but when it comes to intering fractions or sqare roots, for
> >> example, using the buttons for them, or entering the answers in to the
> box
> >> indicated, is impossible, still. Not to mention, when it comes to
> graphs or
> >> number lines, I have to have some one work with me on those particular
> >> problems because those areas are definitely accessible. Do you guys
> have any
> >> other alternatives to doing math with a website like the one mentioned
> above
> >> that is a lot more accessible than this one, that you have used to do
> math
> >> in college successfully? That would be greatly appreciated.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/christgirl813%40gmail.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mkvnfb94%40gmail.com
> Hi, we already did that. And I was thinking of using Khaun Academy for a
> little bit, and a couple of APH supplies, but, I feel like I need to use a
> more web approach because the website to do the math is a different
> environment and I want to learn the new environment and do it on an equal
> level. That's the issue. Is there any other source that is more reliable
> in this kind of situation?
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>

From lily2011a at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 03:25:48 2015
From: lily2011a at gmail.com (Liliya Asadullina)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 21:25:48 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] question on callerado
In-Reply-To: <CAGcQ9RYL_D5PCd8r=1r-AzLGxhSDnBq8bnpoSR1eO=GCdNHUxQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGcQ9RYL_D5PCd8r=1r-AzLGxhSDnBq8bnpoSR1eO=GCdNHUxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+OnPfEZ+L6peiGbvSxw6-PzHTL+20frx5gS5+eeBk7hkNBR5A@mail.gmail.com>

Hello,
Colorado has a vocational Rehab office.
Their phone number is:

(303) 866-2500.

Another number for them to try calling:

(303) 866-4150


Also, if he needs training on how to live independently and on his
own, here is the phone number to the Colorado Center for the Blind.
Phone: 303-778-1130.
University of Colorado Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation:

(303) 724-1264.
He should also contact the SSI office in Colorado.
Their phone number:

(800) 772-1213.
This is for the office that is located in Denver Colorado.
I hope that this helps out some.
Let me know if you need any other information.
Praying for your friends needs.
Peace,
Liliya

On 9/2/15, andrew edgcumbe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi i am just posting a question on behalf of a friend in collerado. he has
> no computer access and limited phone access but anyway he is in a not so
> good living situation and is trying to get on medicade things like that. He
> has been  in a vocational program. i am from canada but a blind friend is
> helping with making calls or will be.  anyway what is there in way of
> hausing in callerado?  also what programs over all is there for  the blind
> down there.  like what kind of resources would abvailable to him.  i don't
> have name of city or i would say that he said he is not far from a city.
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com
>


From valandkayla at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 03:45:24 2015
From: valandkayla at gmail.com (Valerie Gibson)
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2015 21:45:24 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Loki anyone?
Message-ID: <414B03B8-422A-449A-81C8-597E3DB2D3FA@gmail.com>

Hi guys,

I have to use a web application thing called Voki for a class.

The web page for it can be found at 
www.voki.com

I'm having trouble creating a Voki, and was wondering if anyone's had any accessibility success with it.  If so, I'd appreciate any help in creating/using it.

Thanks.

From ropermeaghan at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 04:34:58 2015
From: ropermeaghan at gmail.com (Roper, Meaghan)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 00:34:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BARD Mobike
Message-ID: <3059796C-BE45-4C55-9C61-478E44F40170@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,

Is anyone having trouble connecting to the BARD library online through the mobile app? I haven't been able to access the audio book or browsing menu from the app for over a week now. Thanks!

-Meaghan

Meaghan Roper
Earl Center for Learning
And Innovation
ECA Associate
Admissions Ambassador for Wheelock College
President of Wheelock Student Theater 
Vice President of the Nerd & Gaming Association of Wheelock College
Wheelock College Class of 2018
ropermeaghan at gmail.com
781-315-2720

From tbrown.brl at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 11:55:49 2015
From: tbrown.brl at gmail.com (Tom Brown)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 07:55:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BARD Mobike
In-Reply-To: <3059796C-BE45-4C55-9C61-478E44F40170@gmail.com>
References: <3059796C-BE45-4C55-9C61-478E44F40170@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <E32F825F-1141-48D0-A6B1-D4C7D34D3690@gmail.com>

They are having technical issues, which they are working on fixing. It is unknown when the site will be working properly.
Hope this helps

Tom 
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 12:34 AM, Roper, Meaghan via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Is anyone having trouble connecting to the BARD library online through the mobile app? I haven't been able to access the audio book or browsing menu from the app for over a week now. Thanks!
> 
> -Meaghan
> 
> Meaghan Roper
> Earl Center for Learning
> And Innovation
> ECA Associate
> Admissions Ambassador for Wheelock College
> President of Wheelock Student Theater 
> Vice President of the Nerd & Gaming Association of Wheelock College
> Wheelock College Class of 2018
> ropermeaghan at gmail.com
> 781-315-2720
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tbrown.brl%40gmail.com


From rollercoasterman86 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 14:00:08 2015
From: rollercoasterman86 at gmail.com (andrew edgcumbe)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 10:00:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] question on callerado
In-Reply-To: <CA+OnPfEZ+L6peiGbvSxw6-PzHTL+20frx5gS5+eeBk7hkNBR5A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGcQ9RYL_D5PCd8r=1r-AzLGxhSDnBq8bnpoSR1eO=GCdNHUxQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CA+OnPfEZ+L6peiGbvSxw6-PzHTL+20frx5gS5+eeBk7hkNBR5A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGcQ9RaDp+eciDXtCie6ZahAt4F6gL=qELjxvuQy9XSJsqjB2g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi thanks   are there any living farsilities  or assisted living
farsilities in the denver area or any places like that  or even for the
blind?  he was beat up  last night and the police had to  go out there. and
things like that.  just trying to get numbers to him or those trying to
help.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Liliya Asadullina via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello,
> Colorado has a vocational Rehab office.
> Their phone number is:
>
> (303) 866-2500.
>
> Another number for them to try calling:
>
> (303) 866-4150
>
>
> Also, if he needs training on how to live independently and on his
> own, here is the phone number to the Colorado Center for the Blind.
> Phone: 303-778-1130.
> University of Colorado Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation:
>
> (303) 724-1264.
> He should also contact the SSI office in Colorado.
> Their phone number:
>
> (800) 772-1213.
> This is for the office that is located in Denver Colorado.
> I hope that this helps out some.
> Let me know if you need any other information.
> Praying for your friends needs.
> Peace,
> Liliya
>
> On 9/2/15, andrew edgcumbe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Hi i am just posting a question on behalf of a friend in collerado. he
> has
> > no computer access and limited phone access but anyway he is in a not so
> > good living situation and is trying to get on medicade things like that.
> He
> > has been  in a vocational program. i am from canada but a blind friend is
> > helping with making calls or will be.  anyway what is there in way of
> > hausing in callerado?  also what programs over all is there for  the
> blind
> > down there.  like what kind of resources would abvailable to him.  i
> don't
> > have name of city or i would say that he said he is not far from a city.
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rollercoasterman86%40gmail.com
>

From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 17:15:19 2015
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 13:15:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Nfb news line and braille note apex
Message-ID: <E2816116-DDF0-4011-8212-0514CAAB6E28@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,
Have any of you used nfb news line to download and read magazines or newspapers with the apex?
How does this work?

Amanda

From cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 17:33:47 2015
From: cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 13:33:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Nfb news line and braille note apex
In-Reply-To: <E2816116-DDF0-4011-8212-0514CAAB6E28@gmail.com>
References: <E2816116-DDF0-4011-8212-0514CAAB6E28@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5E4F9BA5-06B3-4FC5-BE80-EAF707A9BE75@gmail.com>

Apparently it has worked quite well for some, but I had some problems with corruption errors when I had my Apex and tried to use Newsline. As I remember it, you go to nfbnewslineonline.org and sign up to receive newspapers in DAISY format (I can't remember what Newsline calls this feature.) Every morning you will receive an email with the newspapers in your favorites list attached in a DAISY book. You can then save these files to your Apex and open them with the book reader feature. Hope this helps—sorry I can't give more details.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Amanda via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi everyone,
> Have any of you used nfb news line to download and read magazines or newspapers with the apex?
> How does this work?
> 
> Amanda
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%40gmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 18:26:58 2015
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 14:26:58 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Nfb news line and braille note apex
In-Reply-To: <5E4F9BA5-06B3-4FC5-BE80-EAF707A9BE75@gmail.com>
References: <E2816116-DDF0-4011-8212-0514CAAB6E28@gmail.com>
	<5E4F9BA5-06B3-4FC5-BE80-EAF707A9BE75@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <ED5087E0-44B1-4C56-9347-01B2F8AB9288@gmail.com>

What if I want to read them in Braille?

Amanda

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Apparently it has worked quite well for some, but I had some problems with corruption errors when I had my Apex and tried to use Newsline. As I remember it, you go to nfbnewslineonline.org and sign up to receive newspapers in DAISY format (I can't remember what Newsline calls this feature.) Every morning you will receive an email with the newspapers in your favorites list attached in a DAISY book. You can then save these files to your Apex and open them with the book reader feature. Hope this helps—sorry I can't give more details.
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Amanda via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone,
>> Have any of you used nfb news line to download and read magazines or newspapers with the apex?
>> How does this work?
>> 
>> Amanda
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From kwakmiso at aol.com  Thu Sep  3 21:08:09 2015
From: kwakmiso at aol.com (Miso Kwak)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 17:08:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Filming Videos
Message-ID: <8D2B4A3C56991A6-14D4-43F8B@webmail-vd002.sysops.aol.com>

Hello,
I am in the middle of applying for an internship with an online 
magazine.
I just had my interview and now I have to record a video of myself.
In addition, If I am selected for this internship, my duties include 
interviewing students on my university campus and filming myself on a 
monthly basis.
I was wondering what strategies are out there for blind people to do 
this job. I can see only light and big objects very close to me. My 
vision would not be useful at all for filming.
If any of you have experience in this area, I'd appreciate your help.
Best,
Miso Kwak




From dandrews at visi.com  Thu Sep  3 21:18:25 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 16:18:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Nfb news line and braille note apex
In-Reply-To: <ED5087E0-44B1-4C56-9347-01B2F8AB9288@gmail.com>
References: <E2816116-DDF0-4011-8212-0514CAAB6E28@gmail.com>
	<5E4F9BA5-06B3-4FC5-BE80-EAF707A9BE75@gmail.com>
	<ED5087E0-44B1-4C56-9347-01B2F8AB9288@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000035670508@mailfront1.g2host.com>

You can, the daisy files you get from NFB 
Newsline are text-based, not audio, so you can read them with the Apex.

Dave

At 01:26 PM 9/3/2015, you wrote:
>What if I want to read them in Braille? Amanda > 
>On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Chris Nusbaum via 
>nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > Apparently 
>it has worked quite well for some, but I had 
>some problems with corruption errors when I had 
>my Apex and tried to use Newsline. As I remember 
>it, you go to nfbnewslineonline.org and sign up 
>to receive newspapers in DAISY format (I can't 
>remember what Newsline calls this feature.) 
>Every morning you will receive an email with the 
>newspapers in your favorites list attached in a 
>DAISY book. You can then save these files to 
>your Apex and open them with the book reader 
>feature. Hope this helps—sorry I can't give more 
>details. > > Chriis Nusbaum > > Sent from my 
>iPhone > >> On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Amanda 
>via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> >> Hi 
>everyone, >> Have any of you used nfb news line 
>to download and read magazines or newspapers 
>with the apex? >> How does this work? >> >> 
>Amanda >> 
>_______________________________________________ > 
> > nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>



From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 22:19:15 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 18:19:15 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Filming Videos
In-Reply-To: <8D2B4A3C56991A6-14D4-43F8B@webmail-vd002.sysops.aol.com>
References: <8D2B4A3C56991A6-14D4-43F8B@webmail-vd002.sysops.aol.com>
Message-ID: <001101d0e696$9205a230$b610e690$@gmail.com>

Maybe learning the positioning for camera via help from a sighted friend
first would help. 


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak via
nabs-l
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 5:08 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Cc: Miso Kwak <kwakmiso at aol.com>
Subject: [nabs-l] Filming Videos

Hello,
I am in the middle of applying for an internship with an online magazine.
I just had my interview and now I have to record a video of myself.
In addition, If I am selected for this internship, my duties include
interviewing students on my university campus and filming myself on a
monthly basis.
I was wondering what strategies are out there for blind people to do this
job. I can see only light and big objects very close to me. My vision would
not be useful at all for filming.
If any of you have experience in this area, I'd appreciate your help.
Best,
Miso Kwak



_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 22:49:21 2015
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 18:49:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Nfb news line and braille note apex
In-Reply-To: <auto-000035670508@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <E2816116-DDF0-4011-8212-0514CAAB6E28@gmail.com>
	<5E4F9BA5-06B3-4FC5-BE80-EAF707A9BE75@gmail.com>
	<ED5087E0-44B1-4C56-9347-01B2F8AB9288@gmail.com>
	<auto-000035670508@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <67CCAB3C-F5EA-48BA-9C85-6C16C6F639FB@gmail.com>

Oh okay so what makes them daisy files? Can I download them on my computer and then transfer them to a USB key?

Amanda

> On Sep 3, 2015, at 5:18 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> You can, the daisy files you get from NFB Newsline are text-based, not audio, so you can read them with the Apex.
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 01:26 PM 9/3/2015, you wrote:
>> What if I want to read them in Braille? Amanda > On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > Apparently it has worked quite well for some, but I had some problems with corruption errors when I had my Apex and tried to use Newsline. As I remember it, you go to nfbnewslineonline.org and sign up to receive newspapers in DAISY format (I can't remember what Newsline calls this feature.) Every morning you will receive an email with the newspapers in your favorites list attached in a DAISY book. You can then save these files to your Apex and open them with the book reader feature. Hope this helps—sorry I can't give more details. > > Chriis Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Amanda via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> >> Hi everyone, >> Have any of you used nfb news line to download and read magazines or newspapers with the apex? >> How does this work? >> >> Amanda >> _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Thu Sep  3 22:53:23 2015
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 18:53:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] question on callerado
In-Reply-To: <CAGcQ9RaDp+eciDXtCie6ZahAt4F6gL=qELjxvuQy9XSJsqjB2g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAGcQ9RYL_D5PCd8r=1r-AzLGxhSDnBq8bnpoSR1eO=GCdNHUxQ@mail.gmail.com><CA+OnPfEZ+L6peiGbvSxw6-PzHTL+20frx5gS5+eeBk7hkNBR5A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGcQ9RaDp+eciDXtCie6ZahAt4F6gL=qELjxvuQy9XSJsqjB2g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <702A2D6FC97D43128AB365102742B500@OwnerPC>

a google search for the town of colorado you need to live in will tell you 
about assisted living availability.
Another way for advice on this is to call or look up online the AARP which 
is American association of retired persons.

hth,
Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: andrew edgcumbe via nabs-l
Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 10:00 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: andrew edgcumbe
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] question on callerado

Hi thanks   are there any living farsilities  or assisted living
farsilities in the denver area or any places like that  or even for the
blind?  he was beat up  last night and the police had to  go out there. and
things like that.  just trying to get numbers to him or those trying to
help.

On Wed, Sep 2, 2015 at 11:25 PM, Liliya Asadullina via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello,
> Colorado has a vocational Rehab office.
> Their phone number is:
>
> (303) 866-2500.
>
> Another number for them to try calling:
>
> (303) 866-4150
>
>
> Also, if he needs training on how to live independently and on his
> own, here is the phone number to the Colorado Center for the Blind.
> Phone: 303-778-1130.
> University of Colorado Department of Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation:
>
> (303) 724-1264.
> He should also contact the SSI office in Colorado.
> Their phone number:
>
> (800) 772-1213.
> This is for the office that is located in Denver Colorado.
> I hope that this helps out some.
> Let me know if you need any other information.
> Praying for your friends needs.
> Peace,
> Liliya
>
> On 9/2/15, andrew edgcumbe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Hi i am just posting a question on behalf of a friend in collerado. he
> has
> > no computer access and limited phone access but anyway he is in a not so
> > good living situation and is trying to get on medicade things like that.
> He
> > has been  in a vocational program. i am from canada but a blind friend 
> > is
> > helping with making calls or will be.  anyway what is there in way of
> > hausing in callerado?  also what programs over all is there for  the
> blind
> > down there.  like what kind of resources would abvailable to him.  i
> don't
> > have name of city or i would say that he said he is not far from a city.
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lily2011a%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rollercoasterman86%40gmail.com
>
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 23:05:25 2015
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 19:05:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Filming Videos
In-Reply-To: <001101d0e696$9205a230$b610e690$@gmail.com>
References: <8D2B4A3C56991A6-14D4-43F8B@webmail-vd002.sysops.aol.com>
	<001101d0e696$9205a230$b610e690$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9jZa9-e2a9oWOqkJRPB_g_-Z6edJZSRvP9_KhnP3Le7ZA@mail.gmail.com>

Depending on how much filming you would have to do, can you pay a
sighted student to be the videographer for the times you would need to
film yourself? You could also try contacting the film or
communications department at your school to see if there are students
willing to volunteer their time for this project to get experience and
possibly class credits.

Minh

On 9/3/15, justin williams via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Maybe learning the positioning for camera via help from a sighted friend
> first would help.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak via
> nabs-l
> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 5:08 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Cc: Miso Kwak <kwakmiso at aol.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] Filming Videos
>
> Hello,
> I am in the middle of applying for an internship with an online magazine.
> I just had my interview and now I have to record a video of myself.
> In addition, If I am selected for this internship, my duties include
> interviewing students on my university campus and filming myself on a
> monthly basis.
> I was wondering what strategies are out there for blind people to do this
> job. I can see only light and big objects very close to me. My vision would
> not be useful at all for filming.
> If any of you have experience in this area, I'd appreciate your help.
> Best,
> Miso Kwak
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
> .com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Minh Ha
Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
minh.ha927 at gmail.com

"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From zumbagecko at gmail.com  Thu Sep  3 23:54:23 2015
From: zumbagecko at gmail.com (petras)
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2015 16:54:23 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] automatic braille translation
Message-ID: <55e8ddaf.a4cd440a.2442f.136f@mx.google.com>

Hi, in braille settings on my ios devices, I have an automatic 
braille translation settting in braille display input.  What does 
this mean if you toggle it to on vs off?


From k8tvv2 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 00:12:45 2015
From: k8tvv2 at gmail.com (Jeff Crouch- k8tvv)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 20:12:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] good printers for college
Message-ID: <CAPbc4TcjiJS1f4pqGpuHFhtUeOj6vHr4t0-r+2wD8tGo=TkScg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,
So I'm starting college on wensday, and I am in the market for a 4 in
1 printer. With so many options out there, I'm confused with what I
should get. I had one, but it was very difficult to setup and the
manual wasn't accessible at all. I live in a family that isn't good
with technology. When it comes to having someone sighted trying to
help me setup something like the fax part of the printer the person
gets very fustraighted very quickly.
What would you all recommend for printers, like I said, looking for 4 in 1.
If you need anymore information just let me know. smiles.

Thanks and warmest regards.


-- 
American Red Cross (East Central Bay Chapter)
1401 S. Grand Traverse St.
Flint MI, 48503
Disaster Service Technology Volunteer
President of the Genesee County chapter of the NFB of Michigan
Board member of the Michigan Association of Blind Students
Cell: 810-931-7763
73
k8tvv
Jeff Crouch


From ropermeaghan at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 00:25:50 2015
From: ropermeaghan at gmail.com (Roper, Meaghan)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 20:25:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] good printers for college
In-Reply-To: <CAPbc4TcjiJS1f4pqGpuHFhtUeOj6vHr4t0-r+2wD8tGo=TkScg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAPbc4TcjiJS1f4pqGpuHFhtUeOj6vHr4t0-r+2wD8tGo=TkScg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F8ABF171-6C0C-4824-B0A7-3332364A36E0@gmail.com>

I have a brother HL printer which does exactly what I needed to do, however I find that opening The paper tray can be tricky. They save a lot of ink though and there are several of these printers all over my campus. I found it to be low cost and efficient. Happy hunting.

Meaghan 

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 03:16:59 2015
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2015 20:16:59 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS List Guidelines
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJD4RFXcrK7bE0tKbdgL04i3ndBh2+Fpugs7PHVT3xZZww@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALAYQJD4RFXcrK7bE0tKbdgL04i3ndBh2+Fpugs7PHVT3xZZww@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJDk39p2iYhXZaE3oZ-kRKPns7G3EK_oT8ykPwhZp3GkzQ@mail.gmail.com>

NABS List Guidelines

1.	 Be respectful.
A. This Listserv is a great forum in which we can all express our
opinions. Sometimes we will disagree. However, when responding to a
post, always be respectful. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and
personal attacks and  degrading comments will not be tolerated.
B. All posts must be appropriate for a wide audience, including
readers younger than 18 years old. Profanity and sexual content will
not be allowed.
C. Remember that all list messages appear on a public archive. Please
respect other people’s privacy by not posting details about their
lives or experiences. Even if you post about somebody without using
their name, their identity can be discovered. Also remember that if
you post your phone number on list, others could access it via a
Google search.

2.	Reducing List Clutter
A. Please stay on topic. This list is about blindness and issues
related to being a blind student or job-seeker. Posts about religion
or politics, advertisements, queries asking to add list members on
social media, or any other posts unrelated to blindness are not
allowed, as they create too much list clutter unrelated to the list
purpose. The exception is that advertisements for blindness programs
and announcements about blindness-related research projects are
permitted. The moderators and NABS board reserve the right to close
down any discussion that is off-topic.
B.	Please respect readers’ time by consolidating your ideas into one
or two messages per day instead of posting many short replies to a
topic. Rule of thumb is to post in a way to further the conversation,
instead of just saying “I agree”.
C.	When you would like to write someone off list or offer to connect
with someone by Skype or social media, do so privately. You do not
have to write one liners to every person you’d like to email off list.
If you develop a conversation with that person, that’s great, if they
feel they do not want to respond that is their right too.
D.	If an off-topic message appears on the list, please do not respond
to it. Instead, please either delete it or forward it to a list
moderator. Single off-topic messages create much less clutter than
long threads debating whether or not the initial post is appropriate
for the list.
If you send a message the moderators feel is off-topic, you will
receive an off-list request not to send any more messages of this
kind. If you disagree with the moderator’s ruling, feel free to reply
and make your case, and we will be more than happy to listen. But the
list committee has final authority regarding what is and is not
appropriate for the list. Repeated violations of the guidelines could
result in disciplinary action from the list owner, including list
removal.


From chris.omeally at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 15:22:19 2015
From: chris.omeally at gmail.com (Christopher O'meally)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 11:22:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Filming Videos
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9jZa9-e2a9oWOqkJRPB_g_-Z6edJZSRvP9_KhnP3Le7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <8D2B4A3C56991A6-14D4-43F8B@webmail-vd002.sysops.aol.com>
	<001101d0e696$9205a230$b610e690$@gmail.com>
	<CAAJqG9jZa9-e2a9oWOqkJRPB_g_-Z6edJZSRvP9_KhnP3Le7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACOe-GXRjHaek4GjYqaWAh3sjd6MZD3n4qB4+4azgTgiWmun8Q@mail.gmail.com>

I tend to film a lot for my youtube channel, and Its all about
placement of the camera.  I have found that you can do this a few
ways.  First, if you are filming with a computer, Make sure the web
camera if located on the computer is tilted slightly up, align the
computer with the center of your body, then back up about a foot from
the computer.  You want the camera to be pointed kind of at your chin
if that means anything.  Insure you have a decent audio source
capturing your voice.  The built in one will capture all sound from
your computers components such as the keyboard and fans.  If you are
an iOS user, I tend to find that using iMovie or the built in camera
app if you do not plan on editing any video is easy.  If you can get a
try pod for your phone or iPad that would help as you could just sit
or stand in front of it and the camera would not move at all.  If not
though, holding the device at the center of your chest, tilting up
slightly, and holding it at face level normally  gets a good shot in.
Also, you can use the front facing camera in photo mode along with
voice over to insure your face is captured.  Voice over will tell you
where your face is in the shot and how in focus it is.  Use that
feedback to find good lighting and good placement for your device.
Hope this helps.

On 9/3/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Depending on how much filming you would have to do, can you pay a
> sighted student to be the videographer for the times you would need to
> film yourself? You could also try contacting the film or
> communications department at your school to see if there are students
> willing to volunteer their time for this project to get experience and
> possibly class credits.
>
> Minh
>
> On 9/3/15, justin williams via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Maybe learning the positioning for camera via help from a sighted friend
>> first would help.
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso Kwak
>> via
>> nabs-l
>> Sent: Thursday, September 03, 2015 5:08 PM
>> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> Cc: Miso Kwak <kwakmiso at aol.com>
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Filming Videos
>>
>> Hello,
>> I am in the middle of applying for an internship with an online magazine.
>> I just had my interview and now I have to record a video of myself.
>> In addition, If I am selected for this internship, my duties include
>> interviewing students on my university campus and filming myself on a
>> monthly basis.
>> I was wondering what strategies are out there for blind people to do this
>> job. I can see only light and big objects very close to me. My vision
>> would
>> not be useful at all for filming.
>> If any of you have experience in this area, I'd appreciate your help.
>> Best,
>> Miso Kwak
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
>> .com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Minh Ha
> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chris.omeally%40gmail.com
>


From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:10:15 2015
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria Graves)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:10:15 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
Message-ID: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>

Hi all,
Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
Gloria

Sent from my iPhone

From yttyler at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:16:26 2015
From: yttyler at gmail.com (Yolanda Tyler)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:16:26 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+J+vQF70LZQP-5JK7ts=1Ggd4du=Pjz4mcr-eKL51Wf-_kYYg@mail.gmail.com>

Who are u going through to get your certification through.

On Friday, September 4, 2015, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi all,
> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is
> anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to
> become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was
> wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the
> process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
> Gloria
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org <javascript:;>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yttyler%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

From yttyler at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:17:39 2015
From: yttyler at gmail.com (Yolanda Tyler)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:17:39 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CA+J+vQH5Ex3sQHVMQ+qgEtR4TDQX2TLduvV9NzRr3TBsnETwQg@mail.gmail.com>

Who are you going through to get your certification through.

On Friday, September 4, 2015, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
wrote:

> Hi all,
> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is
> anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to
> become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was
> wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the
> process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
> Gloria
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org <javascript:;>
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yttyler%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Sent from Gmail Mobile

From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 21:51:33 2015
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria Graves)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:51:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <CA+J+vQH5Ex3sQHVMQ+qgEtR4TDQX2TLduvV9NzRr3TBsnETwQg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
	<CA+J+vQH5Ex3sQHVMQ+qgEtR4TDQX2TLduvV9NzRr3TBsnETwQg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EB2762BE-AAC3-46FF-ABA4-E6BDFE7CE237@gmail.com>

I have been talking to a friend and they suggested NFB. I was also told that it could be attain from NLS. I'm planning to do more research but just wanted to get ideas from others along The way.
Gloria

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 4, 2015, at 4:17 PM, Yolanda Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Who are you going through to get your certification through.
> 
> On Friday, September 4, 2015, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is
>> anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to
>> become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was
>> wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the
>> process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
>> Gloria
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org <javascript:;>
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yttyler%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Sent from Gmail Mobile
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com


From amc05111 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 22:16:54 2015
From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 18:16:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <EB2762BE-AAC3-46FF-ABA4-E6BDFE7CE237@gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
	<CA+J+vQH5Ex3sQHVMQ+qgEtR4TDQX2TLduvV9NzRr3TBsnETwQg@mail.gmail.com>
	<EB2762BE-AAC3-46FF-ABA4-E6BDFE7CE237@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2C1EEBCF-5B97-48CD-909F-4E24538447DA@gmail.com>

Yes, you can get the certification from both places. Although at the end it all ends going through the NFB system. I believe the Library has mentors for people who are going through there program. I have been looking at taking the class.   

Ashley Coleman, 



> On Sep 4, 2015, at 17:51, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I have been talking to a friend and they suggested NFB. I was also told that it could be attain from NLS. I'm planning to do more research but just wanted to get ideas from others along The way.
> Gloria
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 4:17 PM, Yolanda Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Who are you going through to get your certification through.
>> 
>> On Friday, September 4, 2015, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is
>>> anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to
>>> become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was
>>> wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the
>>> process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
>>> Gloria
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org <javascript:;>
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/yttyler%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Sent from Gmail Mobile
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com


From bre.brown24 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 23:21:41 2015
From: bre.brown24 at gmail.com (Bre Brown)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 18:21:41 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00e601d0e768$75cd7ac0$61687040$@gmail.com>

Hi,

I would be happy to try to help answer your questions. I have not taken my
NCUEB yet, but I have taken the NCLB.
You can also email braille at nbpcb.org with questions.
I am planning to take my NCUEB in the near future.

Thanks
Bre Brown

Second vice president, National Association of Blind Students

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria Graves
via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 4:10 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Gloria Graves <gloria.graves at gmail.com>
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification

Hi all,
Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is
anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to
become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was
wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the
process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
Gloria

Sent from my iPhone
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com



From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Fri Sep  4 23:42:34 2015
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 19:42:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <00e601d0e768$75cd7ac0$61687040$@gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
	<00e601d0e768$75cd7ac0$61687040$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9hbw7tp=U2R2b8QjqbPkUud7+kuizmVy69AgROwKfusvQ@mail.gmail.com>

I'm taking the Braille Transcriber's course from NLS administered by
the NFB and I have to say the process is excruciatingly slow. It's a
correspondence course so you do the lessons, and you send the lessons
into an instructor and wait for them to get back to you. It takes
two-three weeks for the instructor to get back to you with your graded
lessons. This is a common complaint that I've heard from other people
taking the course. Otherwise, the course is pretty easy. Since they
have switched over to UEB for transcription, if you take the course,
you would get your certification in UEB braille transcription.

Minh

On 9/4/15, Bre Brown via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I would be happy to try to help answer your questions. I have not taken my
> NCUEB yet, but I have taken the NCLB.
> You can also email braille at nbpcb.org with questions.
> I am planning to take my NCUEB in the near future.
>
> Thanks
> Bre Brown
>
> Second vice president, National Association of Blind Students
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Gloria Graves
> via nabs-l
> Sent: Friday, September 4, 2015 4:10 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Gloria Graves <gloria.graves at gmail.com>
> Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
>
> Hi all,
> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is
> anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to
> become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was
> wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the
> process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
> Gloria
>
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bre.brown24%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Minh Ha
Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
minh.ha927 at gmail.com

"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From kaylaweathers51590 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 00:59:16 2015
From: kaylaweathers51590 at gmail.com (Kayla Weathers)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 20:59:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible calendaring apps for the iPhone
Message-ID: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi NABS,
I’m looking for recommendations of calendaring apps that are
accessible with Voice Over. Has anyone tried VO calendar, and if so,
did you find it useful?
Thanks, Kayla


-- 
Kayla Weathers.
B.A. English Literature
Dalton State College


From martinsteph2010 at yahoo.com  Sat Sep  5 01:58:10 2015
From: martinsteph2010 at yahoo.com (Stephanie)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 20:58:10 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4BD17E69-9710-4153-A47D-C0DD0685B2FC@yahoo.com>

I have received my NCUEB and I didn't find the test to be difficult. Though I did take Braille 1 and 2 which was in UEB at Louisiana Tech. I also took the test in Ruston. The test is in three parts Braille transcribing using the Braille writer, proof reading, and multiple choice. There are study materials that you can get if you register through NFB that really help to show you what to expect. I hope this helps.

Stephanie Martin
President of Louisiana Association of Blind Students
Graduate student at La Tech in the MAT program
Phone: 504-982-7452 
Primary email: martinsteph2010 at yahoo.com
Secondary email: sfm004 at latech.edu

> On Sep 4, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
> Gloria
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/martinsteph2010%40yahoo.com


From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 02:03:08 2015
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy)
Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2015 16:03:08 -1000
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible calendaring apps for the iPhone
In-Reply-To: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6257AABC-1B76-42F4-A783-AFBCF53AE358@gmail.com>

Hi Kayla,
I use the calendar app on the iPhone just fine! I find that most of my friends use Google calendars and you can sync them with your phone. In fact, managing Google calendars with the iPhone is the most accessible way to use Google calendars. I think you can also sync Outlook calendars but I have no experience doing that.

Cindy Bennett
1st Year Ph.D. Student, Human Centered Design and Engineering
University of Washington

clb5590 at gmail.com

Treasurer of the national Federation of the blind of Washington, an affiliate of the national Federation of the blind.

> On Sep 4, 2015, at 2:59 PM, Kayla Weathers via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi NABS,
> I’m looking for recommendations of calendaring apps that are
> accessible with Voice Over. Has anyone tried VO calendar, and if so,
> did you find it useful?
> Thanks, Kayla
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kayla Weathers.
> B.A. English Literature
> Dalton State College
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com

From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 06:41:51 2015
From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 02:41:51 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Is There anyone here who is a deaf and blind iPhone user
	from the UK?
Message-ID: <73CFB0E3-2E90-4933-B59F-796D46FAFE9E@gmail.com>

Hi all! How are you all? The subject line says it all! Is anyone here who  is deaf and blind from the UK and use an iPhone with a Braille display? or anyone here have a friend who does?  I'm just wondering since I'm trying to help my boyfriend get an iPhone with a Braille display in order for him to  use it since he never use one before! guys! however, He does not know where to get the  iPhone from, and as you all know I'm from Boca Raton Florida! I will really appreciate it a lot if you could help me with some suggestions, where he can purchase an iPhone from and with a Braille display guys. And if you don't mind, could you also give me some steps in how can I teach him use an iPhone with the Braille display guys! I will really appreciae it a lot! Please, feel free to contact me off list regarding this matter since I don't want to clutter t elist! I look forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks so much and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 

From carlymih at comcast.net  Sat Sep  5 07:44:59 2015
From: carlymih at comcast.net (Carly Mihalakis)
Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2015 00:44:59 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] question on callerado
In-Reply-To: <CAGcQ9RYL_D5PCd8r=1r-AzLGxhSDnBq8bnpoSR1eO=GCdNHUxQ@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAGcQ9RYL_D5PCd8r=1r-AzLGxhSDnBq8bnpoSR1eO=GCdNHUxQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <mailman.223.1772982281.2863824.nabs-l_nfbnet.org@nfbnet.org>

Evening,

         Is your friend living in Denver? The NFB training center is 
located in Littleton. Perhaps, you might GOOGLE the Colorado Center 
for the Blind and view their life adjustment offerings, The CCB works 
for rehab so your friend will need to get plugged in to department of 
rehabilitation, the state agency that facilitates a working 
relationship between the client and which ever training outfit, (I.E.) the CCB
for today, Car
  and limited phone access but anyway he is in a not so
>good living situation and is trying to get on medicade things like that. He
>has been  in a vocational program. i am from canada but a blind friend is
>helping with making calls or will be.  anyway what is there in way of
>hausing in callerado?  also what programs over all is there for  the blind
>down there.  like what kind of resources would abvailable to him.  i don't
>have name of city or i would say that he said he is not far from a city.
>_______________________________________________
>nabs-l mailing list
>nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlymih%40comcast.net




From amc05111 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 14:12:33 2015
From: amc05111 at gmail.com (Ashley Coleman)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:12:33 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible calendaring apps for the iPhone
In-Reply-To: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <F7BE16E0-A77B-454E-B9F4-8984A0A60A3A@gmail.com>

Hello all. 
I use the Google Calendar app. It is accessible and the thing I like about it the most is that you can input appointments into the calendar from the app or from the site. This works well for me because I can imput things in from my phone, my ChromeBook and my Windows computer. It doesn't matter what way I add things I can see them from anywhere. 
I hope this information helps. 

Ashley Coleman, 



> On Sep 4, 2015, at 20:59, Kayla Weathers via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi NABS,
> I’m looking for recommendations of calendaring apps that are
> accessible with Voice Over. Has anyone tried VO calendar, and if so,
> did you find it useful?
> Thanks, Kayla
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kayla Weathers.
> B.A. English Literature
> Dalton State College
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com


From burke.ashley1 at gmail.com  Sat Sep  5 14:56:00 2015
From: burke.ashley1 at gmail.com (Ashley R. Burke)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 10:56:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible calendaring apps for the iPhone
In-Reply-To: <F7BE16E0-A77B-454E-B9F4-8984A0A60A3A@gmail.com>
References: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7BE16E0-A77B-454E-B9F4-8984A0A60A3A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuWA53y4RX8F8=mNQjR1gmXPj7ph+YUoQ-kk48ELq_N-KQ9CQ@mail.gmail.com>

I agree with Ashley.
I too use google calendar and the key strokes are really helpful all
you have to do is hit jaws key then 3  for nvda its nvda key then f2.
and then the google calendar short cut key for example C for create an
event.
Ashley

On 9/5/15, Ashley Coleman via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello all.
> I use the Google Calendar app. It is accessible and the thing I like about
> it the most is that you can input appointments into the calendar from the
> app or from the site. This works well for me because I can imput things in
> from my phone, my ChromeBook and my Windows computer. It doesn't matter what
> way I add things I can see them from anywhere.
> I hope this information helps.
>
> Ashley Coleman,
>
>
>
>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 20:59, Kayla Weathers via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi NABS,
>> I’m looking for recommendations of calendaring apps that are
>> accessible with Voice Over. Has anyone tried VO calendar, and if so,
>> did you find it useful?
>> Thanks, Kayla
>>
>>
>> --
>> Kayla Weathers.
>> B.A. English Literature
>> Dalton State College
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/burke.ashley1%40gmail.com
>


From kestomberg at coe.edu  Sun Sep  6 00:11:36 2015
From: kestomberg at coe.edu (STOMBERG, KENNEDY)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 19:11:36 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Research
Message-ID: <CANvQTY6N72p9SJe5cDNJ8p159hfxE5b2sR1qkYu0MQhaHjpQgg@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All, I may have an opurtunity to do research with some members of the
faculty at my college during this summer. Has anyone ever participated in
research, and what challenges did you face? I would like to know what I
should be aware of, and what accomidations I should request. Thank you!

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 00:48:07 2015
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2015 17:48:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Research
In-Reply-To: <CANvQTY6N72p9SJe5cDNJ8p159hfxE5b2sR1qkYu0MQhaHjpQgg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANvQTY6N72p9SJe5cDNJ8p159hfxE5b2sR1qkYu0MQhaHjpQgg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJC6J-Bw+wDAy8MjwGwDy4BzDhoQ19SeUtd7f+RtYJUH=w@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kennedy, Sounds like a great opportunity! Do you know what
department your faculty mentors will be in and what type of research
they do? This will affect what you will be expected to do for them. In
general, the biggest thing you will need is a computer you can use
effectively. If you own a screen reader like JAWS, you can install it
and use your license key on up to three computers at one time, so you
can put it on your computer in their lab or use a laptop. You might be
asked to do library research. If so, you will want to get familiar
with the online library services at your college as well as any
services for requesting electronic documents from the library (often
known as interlibrary loan). You will probably not need to deal with
hard-copy books, but if you do, you will probably want to ask the
college to provide a reader or hire your own reader. Some
undergraduates are asked to do data entry as part of a research group.
Although data entry seems inaccessible, most good data entry is done
in pairs, so you can pair up with another research assistant who will
read you the data and have you enter it. This is often done as a way
of double-checking accuracy. Best of luck and I may have more specific
advice if you tell me more about what type of research you will be
doing.
Best, Arielle

On 9/5/15, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello All, I may have an opurtunity to do research with some members of the
> faculty at my college during this summer. Has anyone ever participated in
> research, and what challenges did you face? I would like to know what I
> should be aware of, and what accomidations I should request. Thank you!
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Sep  6 17:11:28 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2015 12:11:28 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Desperate need for a  TVI in Albuquerque
Message-ID: <auto-000035858181@mailfront1.g2host.com>


>
>Subject: [Chapter-presidents] Desperate need for a  TVI
>From: Veronica Smith via Chapter-presidents <chapter-presidents at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: Veronica Smith <madison_tewe at spinn.net>
>
>The Albuquerque Schools are in desperate need for TVI's.  Inparticular the
>school where I work.  Our Primary TVI is leaving, her last day is tomorrow
>and though the job has been posted going on 2 weeks now, no one has applied.
>We have 6 kiddos right now in that class and they will be channeled into our
>class 3RD, 4TH and 5Th.  We already have 7 of our own.
>If you know of anyone who wants to work, please tell them to apply and
>Albuquerque Public Schools, Albuquerque New Mexico.  The school that I am
>talking about is the one Zia Elementary where Fred Schroeder started the VI
>Program.
>HELP!
>
>Veronica
>
>

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org



From clb5590 at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 17:46:20 2015
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 10:46:20 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible calendaring apps for the iPhone
In-Reply-To: <CAMuWA53y4RX8F8=mNQjR1gmXPj7ph+YUoQ-kk48ELq_N-KQ9CQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<F7BE16E0-A77B-454E-B9F4-8984A0A60A3A@gmail.com>
	<CAMuWA53y4RX8F8=mNQjR1gmXPj7ph+YUoQ-kk48ELq_N-KQ9CQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <38D5F98C-2784-4A11-9C44-9B09D2EE2F50@gmail.com>

Hi,
Thanks for sharing the shortcut keys as I have played around with Google calendar both with  jaws and NVDA several times in the past and hadn't seen the accessibility improvements similar to their other applications like docs come to fruition. Can you manage which calendars you see? I have about 10 shared calendars and that was one of the most frustrating things about the web view, not being able to manage was calendars  were showing and then seeing appointments for mother people's calendars and not being able to discern which appointments corresponded with which calendars.

Cindy Bennett
1st Year Ph.D. Student, Human Centered Design and Engineering
University of Washington

clb5590 at gmail.com

Treasurer of the national Federation of the blind of Washington, an affiliate of the national Federation of the blind.

> On Sep 5, 2015, at 7:56 AM, Ashley R. Burke via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I agree with Ashley.
> I too use google calendar and the key strokes are really helpful all
> you have to do is hit jaws key then 3  for nvda its nvda key then f2.
> and then the google calendar short cut key for example C for create an
> event.
> Ashley
> 
>> On 9/5/15, Ashley Coleman via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello all.
>> I use the Google Calendar app. It is accessible and the thing I like about
>> it the most is that you can input appointments into the calendar from the
>> app or from the site. This works well for me because I can imput things in
>> from my phone, my ChromeBook and my Windows computer. It doesn't matter what
>> way I add things I can see them from anywhere.
>> I hope this information helps.
>> 
>> Ashley Coleman,
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 20:59, Kayla Weathers via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi NABS,
>>> I’m looking for recommendations of calendaring apps that are
>>> accessible with Voice Over. Has anyone tried VO calendar, and if so,
>>> did you find it useful?
>>> Thanks, Kayla
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kayla Weathers.
>>> B.A. English Literature
>>> Dalton State College
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/burke.ashley1%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com

From zumbagecko at gmail.com  Sun Sep  6 23:15:12 2015
From: zumbagecko at gmail.com (petras)
Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2015 16:15:12 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] windows 10
Message-ID: <55ecc906.0db6420a.b01e.ffff9fc3@mx.google.com>

Hi, I have a toshiba laptop and I'm always getting a critical 
stop error saying the mocki ingine is not designed to run on 
windows or it contains an error.  How do I fix that? This is 
anoying.


From kestomberg at coe.edu  Mon Sep  7 01:19:09 2015
From: kestomberg at coe.edu (STOMBERG, KENNEDY)
Date: Sun, 6 Sep 2015 20:19:09 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about Research
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJC6J-Bw+wDAy8MjwGwDy4BzDhoQ19SeUtd7f+RtYJUH=w@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANvQTY6N72p9SJe5cDNJ8p159hfxE5b2sR1qkYu0MQhaHjpQgg@mail.gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJC6J-Bw+wDAy8MjwGwDy4BzDhoQ19SeUtd7f+RtYJUH=w@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANvQTY7-F6-Hv2YQV3xG8nCrz05qq2-0QVXPWaBTju7ED+9qdg@mail.gmail.com>

ariel, Thank you! This is super helpful. I will try to explain more about
the research as best as I can, and hopefuly, I can articulate clearlz. I
would be doing research in the Neuroscience department at my college. The
research involves injecting drugs into young chicks, and placing them in
collored boxes in order to form an asociation between the enviornment and
the drug. After several trials, they are given a choice of boxes to enter,
and it is hypothesized that they will choose the box that is asociated with
the drug. This type of research would pose some unique challenhes. I am not
intirely sure what those would be... Thank you for your help!

On Sat, Sep 5, 2015 at 7:48 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi Kennedy, Sounds like a great opportunity! Do you know what
> department your faculty mentors will be in and what type of research
> they do? This will affect what you will be expected to do for them. In
> general, the biggest thing you will need is a computer you can use
> effectively. If you own a screen reader like JAWS, you can install it
> and use your license key on up to three computers at one time, so you
> can put it on your computer in their lab or use a laptop. You might be
> asked to do library research. If so, you will want to get familiar
> with the online library services at your college as well as any
> services for requesting electronic documents from the library (often
> known as interlibrary loan). You will probably not need to deal with
> hard-copy books, but if you do, you will probably want to ask the
> college to provide a reader or hire your own reader. Some
> undergraduates are asked to do data entry as part of a research group.
> Although data entry seems inaccessible, most good data entry is done
> in pairs, so you can pair up with another research assistant who will
> read you the data and have you enter it. This is often done as a way
> of double-checking accuracy. Best of luck and I may have more specific
> advice if you tell me more about what type of research you will be
> doing.
> Best, Arielle
>
> On 9/5/15, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Hello All, I may have an opurtunity to do research with some members of
> the
> > faculty at my college during this summer. Has anyone ever participated in
> > research, and what challenges did you face? I would like to know what I
> > should be aware of, and what accomidations I should request. Thank you!
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>

From gpaikens at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 12:27:05 2015
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 08:27:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <4BD17E69-9710-4153-A47D-C0DD0685B2FC@yahoo.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
	<4BD17E69-9710-4153-A47D-C0DD0685B2FC@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <16DEDD5D-30FF-415D-8759-B7928D142D6B@gmail.com>

Just to add some clarity to what has been shared already, there are two certifications being discussed. There is the NCUEB, which allows you to demonstrate your braille knowledge. This is great for braille teachers and other professionals who need to demonstrate competence in braille but don’t need to be braille transcribers. The other certification is the braille transcribers course, which is administered by the NFB. This course is for people who want to become certified braille transcribers. 

If you do not need or want to transcribe braille materials, I would recommend the NCUEB instead. There is no course associated with it. 

If all you need is to learn more about UEB and don’t necessarily want a certification, the Transition to UEB course through Hadley is quite good and free. The turn around time is quick if you submit your work electronically. I completed this course in May and it served my current needs, although I would like to look into the NCUEB exam in the future. 

Hope this helps.

-Greg

> On Sep 4, 2015, at 9:58 PM, Stephanie via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I have received my NCUEB and I didn't find the test to be difficult. Though I did take Braille 1 and 2 which was in UEB at Louisiana Tech. I also took the test in Ruston. The test is in three parts Braille transcribing using the Braille writer, proof reading, and multiple choice. There are study materials that you can get if you register through NFB that really help to show you what to expect. I hope this helps.
> 
> Stephanie Martin
> President of Louisiana Association of Blind Students
> Graduate student at La Tech in the MAT program
> Phone: 504-982-7452 
> Primary email: martinsteph2010 at yahoo.com
> Secondary email: sfm004 at latech.edu
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there is anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans to become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
>> Gloria
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/martinsteph2010%40yahoo.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From burke.ashley1 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 15:14:45 2015
From: burke.ashley1 at gmail.com (Ashley R. Burke)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 11:14:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] UEB certification
In-Reply-To: <16DEDD5D-30FF-415D-8759-B7928D142D6B@gmail.com>
References: <21F2D33D-8B79-4950-885A-A506D401E920@gmail.com>
	<4BD17E69-9710-4153-A47D-C0DD0685B2FC@yahoo.com>
	<16DEDD5D-30FF-415D-8759-B7928D142D6B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAMuWA50gy6jL4ESuX+eGYC-Ut6pSO7bCLdaeox_xqm+mc3BPag@mail.gmail.com>

I would like to also add that the hadley school will only have there
course for free until the end of this year.  In 2016 it will be $90.
Ashley

On 9/7/15, Greg Aikens via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Just to add some clarity to what has been shared already, there are two
> certifications being discussed. There is the NCUEB, which allows you to
> demonstrate your braille knowledge. This is great for braille teachers and
> other professionals who need to demonstrate competence in braille but don’t
> need to be braille transcribers. The other certification is the braille
> transcribers course, which is administered by the NFB. This course is for
> people who want to become certified braille transcribers.
>
> If you do not need or want to transcribe braille materials, I would
> recommend the NCUEB instead. There is no course associated with it.
>
> If all you need is to learn more about UEB and don’t necessarily want a
> certification, the Transition to UEB course through Hadley is quite good and
> free. The turn around time is quick if you submit your work electronically.
> I completed this course in May and it served my current needs, although I
> would like to look into the NCUEB exam in the future.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> -Greg
>
>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 9:58 PM, Stephanie via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I have received my NCUEB and I didn't find the test to be difficult.
>> Though I did take Braille 1 and 2 which was in UEB at Louisiana Tech. I
>> also took the test in Ruston. The test is in three parts Braille
>> transcribing using the Braille writer, proof reading, and multiple choice.
>> There are study materials that you can get if you register through NFB
>> that really help to show you what to expect. I hope this helps.
>>
>> Stephanie Martin
>> President of Louisiana Association of Blind Students
>> Graduate student at La Tech in the MAT program
>> Phone: 504-982-7452
>> Primary email: martinsteph2010 at yahoo.com
>> Secondary email: sfm004 at latech.edu
>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 4:10 PM, Gloria Graves via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>> Hope this post finds everyone and good health. I was wondering if there
>>> is anyone who is already certified, is working on certification, or plans
>>> to become certified in UEB? I am thinking about the certification and was
>>> wondering if anyone could provide any experience they've had with the
>>> process, any suggestions ideas are all welcome. Thanks a bunch.
>>> Gloria
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/martinsteph2010%40yahoo.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/burke.ashley1%40gmail.com
>


From codyjbair at yahoo.com  Mon Sep  7 21:47:16 2015
From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (codyjbair at yahoo.com)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 21:47:16 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <DM2PR0601MB1343648A1A05A2E8EEC9D151A0540@DM2PR0601MB1343.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
References: <DM2PR0601MB1343648A1A05A2E8EEC9D151A0540@DM2PR0601MB1343.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <324422.87364.bm@smtp215.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>

Greetings,

The Colorado Association of Blind Students is hosting an NFL survivor pool fund raiser.

In brief, the way that it works is you pick one NFL team to win their game per week. If the team you select wins, you move on. If the team you select loses, you get a strike. Two strikes and your out.

To participate in the pool, their is a one-time $25 entry fee. Fifty percent of the proceeds will go to the Colorado Association of Blind Students, 40% of the proceeds will go to the winner and 10% will go to the individual who finishes in 2nd place.

The attached document contains a more-indepth description as well as the rules, methods for making payment and payment deadlines. If you plan to participate please read said document in its entirety so their aren’t any surprises.

If you wish to participate please send an email to codyjbair at yahoo.com stating all of the following:

that you wish to participate in our NFL Survivor pool


which payment method you intend to use(see attached document)


your week 1 pick



I will accept entries until Saturday September 12, at 9:00 P.M. mountain time. 

Although the payment deadline is October 1, we encourage you to make payment as soon as possible.


If you have further questions please do not hesitate to reach out to me.


Thanks,

Cody Bair

Vice President

Colorado Association of Blind Students

(970)673-6998

codyjbair at yahoo.com
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From herekittykat97 at gmail.com  Mon Sep  7 23:05:45 2015
From: herekittykat97 at gmail.com (Jewel)
Date: Mon, 7 Sep 2015 19:05:45 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] (no subject)
In-Reply-To: <324422.87364.bm@smtp215.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
References: <DM2PR0601MB1343648A1A05A2E8EEC9D151A0540@DM2PR0601MB1343.namprd06.prod.outlook.com>
	<324422.87364.bm@smtp215.mail.bf1.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <4FE7CCB3-4BDC-4F99-BBDB-E79C70AC01CA@gmail.com>

Isn't this sort of gambling illegal?? 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 7, 2015, at 5:47 PM, Cody Bair via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Greetings,
> 
> The Colorado Association of Blind Students is hosting an NFL survivor pool fund raiser.
> 
> In brief, the way that it works is you pick one NFL team to win their game per week. If the team you select wins, you move on. If the team you select loses, you get a strike. Two strikes and your out.
> 
> To participate in the pool, their is a one-time $25 entry fee. Fifty percent of the proceeds will go to the Colorado Association of Blind Students, 40% of the proceeds will go to the winner and 10% will go to the individual who finishes in 2nd place.
> 
> The attached document contains a more-indepth description as well as the rules, methods for making payment and payment deadlines. If you plan to participate please read said document in its entirety so their aren’t any surprises.
> 
> If you wish to participate please send an email to codyjbair at yahoo.com stating all of the following:
> 
> that you wish to participate in our NFL Survivor pool
> 
> 
> which payment method you intend to use(see attached document)
> 
> 
> your week 1 pick
> 
> 
> 
> I will accept entries until Saturday September 12, at 9:00 P.M. mountain time. 
> 
> Although the payment deadline is October 1, we encourage you to make payment as soon as possible.
> 
> 
> If you have further questions please do not hesitate to reach out to me.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cody Bair
> 
> Vice President
> 
> Colorado Association of Blind Students
> 
> (970)673-6998
> 
> codyjbair at yahoo.com
> <NFL Survivor Pool Rules.docx>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/herekittykat97%40gmail.com


From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 14:37:54 2015
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:37:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Writing French accents with the Braillenote apex
Message-ID: <44009E51-39CD-4291-B09B-40DAF0DDB77F@gmail.com>

Hi everyone,
I figured out how to change the language to French on the Apex but how do I write words with accents?
Thanks,

Amanda

From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 14:57:36 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (rbacchus228 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:57:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible calendaring apps for the iPhone
In-Reply-To: <6257AABC-1B76-42F4-A783-AFBCF53AE358@gmail.com>
References: <CACNPAB6W-1vx30rJVqo-TBorxgkvVpRyerkof_E6cK7jiZM7ZA@mail.gmail.com>
	<6257AABC-1B76-42F4-A783-AFBCF53AE358@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <925D7C2D-1E52-42FB-877E-5412E94B1D0E@gmail.com>

I love the calendar apps on Apple devices I use both of my iPhone and iPad.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 4, 2015, at 10:03 PM, Cindy via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kayla,
> I use the calendar app on the iPhone just fine! I find that most of my friends use Google calendars and you can sync them with your phone. In fact, managing Google calendars with the iPhone is the most accessible way to use Google calendars. I think you can also sync Outlook calendars but I have no experience doing that.
> 
> Cindy Bennett
> 1st Year Ph.D. Student, Human Centered Design and Engineering
> University of Washington
> 
> clb5590 at gmail.com
> 
> Treasurer of the national Federation of the blind of Washington, an affiliate of the national Federation of the blind.
> 
>> On Sep 4, 2015, at 2:59 PM, Kayla Weathers via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi NABS,
>> I’m looking for recommendations of calendaring apps that are
>> accessible with Voice Over. Has anyone tried VO calendar, and if so,
>> did you find it useful?
>> Thanks, Kayla
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Kayla Weathers.
>> B.A. English Literature
>> Dalton State College
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/clb5590%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/rbacchus228%40gmail.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Sep  8 15:00:56 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 10:00:56 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] One-time,
	Online Course:  Unified English Braille for Teachers
Message-ID: <auto-000035445540@mailfront2.g2host.com>


>
>From: Olson, Paul H. [<mailto:polson at nd.gov>mailto:polson at nd.gov]
>Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 2:58 PM
>To: Oien, Kristin (MDE)
>Subject: One-time, Online Course: Unified English Braille for Teachers
>
>Hello Kristin,
>UND is offering a course in UEB.  Julie Anderson (Fargo TVI) is the 
>instructor. I am taking it myself and I like the format.  Would you 
>share this with the MN BVI listserv?
>
>UEB (Unified English Braille) for Teachers of Students with Visual 
>Impairments is a one-time offering this fall, which provides 2 PD 
>credits, to help you learn and use the new braille code.  This 
>course will prepare you for the UEB certification test once it is 
>implemented across the United States. The work at your own pace 
>course is offered completely online and runs August 24 - December 
>11. Teachers may register to take the course anytime between August 
>24 and September 25, 2015, but the sooner you register the more time 
>you'll have to complete the course by December 11.  The course fee 
>is $300, and you will be responsible for ordering and paying for the 
>required book (which is $98.50).  ND Teachers will be given the 
>first opportunity to sign up for the course so there will limited 
>enrollment for out-of-state teachers.
>We're very excited to offer this one-time only class, and we hope 
>that your schedules will allow you the time to participate. There's 
>still plenty of time to sign up.
>Learn more about the course, or 
><http://educators.und.edu/workshop/?id=TL.UEB.NONND>register online 
>here. Only qualified Teachers of the Visually Impaired and those who 
>create materials in braille are receiving this email invitation to 
>enroll in this course.
>
>
>Paul H. Olson, COMS, CVLT
>Superintendent
>North Dakota Vision Services/School for the Blind
><mailto:polson at nd.gov>polson at nd.gov
>
>

From gloria.graves at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 15:26:07 2015
From: gloria.graves at gmail.com (Gloria Graves)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:26:07 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] One-time,
	Online Course:  Unified English Braille for Teachers
In-Reply-To: <auto-000035445540@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000035445540@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <B323FA64-C2C8-4AA9-9CF0-E9367AD100C8@gmail.com>

Hi,
Only teachers can take this course?
Gloria

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 8, 2015, at 10:00 AM, David Andrews via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> From: Olson, Paul H. [<mailto:polson at nd.gov>mailto:polson at nd.gov]
>> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 2:58 PM
>> To: Oien, Kristin (MDE)
>> Subject: One-time, Online Course: Unified English Braille for Teachers
>> 
>> Hello Kristin,
>> UND is offering a course in UEB.  Julie Anderson (Fargo TVI) is the instructor. I am taking it myself and I like the format.  Would you share this with the MN BVI listserv?
>> 
>> UEB (Unified English Braille) for Teachers of Students with Visual Impairments is a one-time offering this fall, which provides 2 PD credits, to help you learn and use the new braille code.  This course will prepare you for the UEB certification test once it is implemented across the United States. The work at your own pace course is offered completely online and runs August 24 - December 11. Teachers may register to take the course anytime between August 24 and September 25, 2015, but the sooner you register the more time you'll have to complete the course by December 11.  The course fee is $300, and you will be responsible for ordering and paying for the required book (which is $98.50).  ND Teachers will be given the first opportunity to sign up for the course so there will limited enrollment for out-of-state teachers.
>> We're very excited to offer this one-time only class, and we hope that your schedules will allow you the time to participate. There's still plenty of time to sign up.
>> Learn more about the course, or <http://educators.und.edu/workshop/?id=TL.UEB.NONND>register online here. Only qualified Teachers of the Visually Impaired and those who create materials in braille are receiving this email invitation to enroll in this course.
>> 
>> 
>> Paul H. Olson, COMS, CVLT
>> Superintendent
>> North Dakota Vision Services/School for the Blind
>> <mailto:polson at nd.gov>polson at nd.gov
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gloria.graves%40gmail.com


From kaylaweathers51590 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 22:41:25 2015
From: kaylaweathers51590 at gmail.com (Kayla Weathers)
Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 18:41:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] respondants neded for a survey concerning the unemployment
 rate of blind individuals
Message-ID: <CACNPAB4TB4urXFUH5sb77UJNM0dmQ3w0LbsDUH27YQGP4WN7RA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi NABS,
I am in the process of completing a multi-step research project as
part of an Intro to Sociology course. I have chosen to focus on the
topic of the 70% unemployment rate of blind individuals. As a
requirement, I’m expected to survey a wide range of individuals who
have been affected by the low employment rate of blind job seekers. I
would really appreciate it, if you could assist me with this project,
by   taking time to complete the questions that I have attached to
this message. Simply type your responses in the same document as the
questions, and message them to me off list. Your assistance is very
much appreciated.
Thanks, Kayla
-- 
Kayla Weathers.
B.A. English Literature
Dalton State College
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From kmaent1 at gmail.com  Tue Sep  8 23:04:06 2015
From: kmaent1 at gmail.com (Karl Martin Adam)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 19:04:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Writing French accents with the Braillenote apex
Message-ID: <55ef6979.06e60d0a.28df3.1bb6@mx.google.com>

If it's a bt, then you just input the appropriate braille symbol 
for the accent.  If it's a qt, you press function with x to bring 
up the unicode table and then select the extended character you 
want.  I think the French accents are called acutes, so you would 
put in a e acute or whatever the letter is acute.  Their may be 
more accents, I don't know French.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Amanda via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:37:54 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Writing French accents with the Braillenote 
apex

Hi everyone,
I figured out how to change the language to French on the Apex 
but how do I write words with accents?
Thanks,

Amanda
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kmaent1%40gma
il.com


From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Sep  9 00:44:44 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 19:44:44 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Process Message 1, Please Ignore
Message-ID: <auto-000036047109@mailfront1.g2host.com>

It is not necessary to respond to this message in any way!  It is 
being sent to all nfbnet.org lists for three purposes:
1. to exercise/test all nfbnet.org plumbing,
2.  to initiate the search function for all low-traffic lists, yes 
find is fixed again,
and 3. to help remove bad addresses from all lists.

David Andrews, List Owner


         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org



From dandrews at visi.com  Wed Sep  9 01:25:06 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2015 20:25:06 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] One-time,
 Online Course:  Unified English Braille  for Teachers
In-Reply-To: <B323FA64-C2C8-4AA9-9CF0-E9367AD100C8@gmail.com>
References: <auto-000035445540@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<B323FA64-C2C8-4AA9-9CF0-E9367AD100C8@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000036049623@mailfront1.g2host.com>

Yes, this is specifically for teachers, there are other resources for 
other groups.

Dave

At 10:26 AM 9/8/2015, you wrote:
>Hi,
>Only teachers can take this course?
>Gloria
>
>Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 8, 2015, at 10:00 AM, David Andrews via nabs-l 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >> From: Olson, Paul H. [<mailto:polson at nd.gov>mailto:polson at nd.gov]
> >> Sent: Friday, September 04, 2015 2:58 PM
> >> To: Oien, Kristin (MDE)
> >> Subject: One-time, Online Course: Unified English Braille for Teachers
> >>
> >> Hello Kristin,
> >> UND is offering a course in UEB.  Julie Anderson (Fargo TVI) is 
> the instructor. I am taking it myself and I like the format.  Would 
> you share this with the MN BVI listserv?
> >>
> >> UEB (Unified English Braille) for Teachers of Students with 
> Visual Impairments is a one-time offering this fall, which provides 
> 2 PD credits, to help you learn and use the new braille code.  This 
> course will prepare you for the UEB certification test once it is 
> implemented across the United States. The work at your own pace 
> course is offered completely online and runs August 24 - December 
> 11. Teachers may register to take the course anytime between August 
> 24 and September 25, 2015, but the sooner you register the more 
> time you'll have to complete the course by December 11.  The course 
> fee is $300, and you will be responsible for ordering and paying 
> for the required book (which is $98.50).  ND Teachers will be given 
> the first opportunity to sign up for the course so there will 
> limited enrollment for out-of-state teachers.
> >> We're very excited to offer this one-time only class, and we 
> hope that your schedules will allow you the time to participate. 
> There's still plenty of time to sign up.
> >> Learn more about the course, or 
> <http://educators.und.edu/workshop/?id=TL.UEB.NONND>register online 
> here. Only qualified Teachers of the Visually Impaired and those 
> who create materials in braille are receiving this email invitation 
> to enroll in this course.
> >>
> >>
> >> Paul H. Olson, COMS, CVLT
> >> Superintendent
> >> North Dakota Vision Services/School for the Blind
> >> <mailto:polson at nd.gov>polson at nd.gov

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org



From comicsempower at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 19:59:34 2015
From: comicsempower at gmail.com (Comics Empower)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 21:59:34 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] Comic Books for the Blind and the Visually Impaired
Message-ID: <CAK-mstezzzVtEFr8t6SgV9Rj6DhAi+TEYCsQmtW_fuTWsF0bcA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi, everyone!
My name is Guy Hasson, CEO of New Worlds Comics. Just letting you all know
I created an online comic book store for the blind and the visually
impaired!
So if you think comics are for you - there's finally a way to read them!
This is for the geeks, the nerds, the book lovers, the sci-fi lovers,
adventure lovers, and lovers of an art that they can't enjoy, or anyone who
thinks they would love comics! Or for those who would just like to join the
conversations everyone else is having!
Have a great week!
Here's the link: http://comicsempower.com/

From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 20:26:03 2015
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (cape.amanda at gmail.com)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 16:26:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Comic Books for the Blind and the Visually Impaired
In-Reply-To: <CAK-mstezzzVtEFr8t6SgV9Rj6DhAi+TEYCsQmtW_fuTWsF0bcA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAK-mstezzzVtEFr8t6SgV9Rj6DhAi+TEYCsQmtW_fuTWsF0bcA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <808146DF-C544-45B9-830E-A63D46218DC5@gmail.com>

Very cool. Are these Braille comics?

Amanda

> On Sep 9, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Comics Empower via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi, everyone!
> My name is Guy Hasson, CEO of New Worlds Comics. Just letting you all know
> I created an online comic book store for the blind and the visually
> impaired!
> So if you think comics are for you - there's finally a way to read them!
> This is for the geeks, the nerds, the book lovers, the sci-fi lovers,
> adventure lovers, and lovers of an art that they can't enjoy, or anyone who
> thinks they would love comics! Or for those who would just like to join the
> conversations everyone else is having!
> Have a great week!
> Here's the link: http://comicsempower.com/
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com


From comicsempower at gmail.com  Wed Sep  9 21:06:17 2015
From: comicsempower at gmail.com (Comics Empower)
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2015 23:06:17 +0200
Subject: [nabs-l] Comic Books for the Blind and the Visually Impaired
In-Reply-To: <808146DF-C544-45B9-830E-A63D46218DC5@gmail.com>
References: <CAK-mstezzzVtEFr8t6SgV9Rj6DhAi+TEYCsQmtW_fuTWsF0bcA@mail.gmail.com>
	<808146DF-C544-45B9-830E-A63D46218DC5@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAK-mstdCEiO6aoHUcS0b7CELo9KrP_Lxpu78Yc36MNsEPnvZtA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Amanda.

The comics are in audio, done in a way that makes you feel like you're
reading a comic book, and with descriptions that don't stop the story.

So far it works. We had blind fan who talked to his sighted friend about
the same comic book, and the friend told him "You know this comic book a
little too well." Others used to be comics fans, lost their sight, and you
can see their excitement as they're finally able to enjoy comics again.

And for those who have never seen a comic book, we also have The First
Timer's Ultimate Comics Guide. It basically describes the comic book
experience through every aspect: the stores, the touch, what it looks like,
the terminology, and more. And then it shows you how we translated each of
those giving you your own comic book experience. The Guide is downloadable
for free at the homepage: http://comicsempower.com/

You will be able to find some of our comics in Braille through Seeing Ear
pretty soon.

Are you into comics yourself, Amanda?

Guy

On Wed, Sep 9, 2015 at 10:26 PM, <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:

> Very cool. Are these Braille comics?
>
> Amanda
>
> > On Sep 9, 2015, at 3:59 PM, Comics Empower via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi, everyone!
> > My name is Guy Hasson, CEO of New Worlds Comics. Just letting you all
> know
> > I created an online comic book store for the blind and the visually
> > impaired!
> > So if you think comics are for you - there's finally a way to read them!
> > This is for the geeks, the nerds, the book lovers, the sci-fi lovers,
> > adventure lovers, and lovers of an art that they can't enjoy, or anyone
> who
> > thinks they would love comics! Or for those who would just like to join
> the
> > conversations everyone else is having!
> > Have a great week!
> > Here's the link: http://comicsempower.com/
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>

From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 12:17:26 2015
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:17:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
Message-ID: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>

Hey all, 
If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is a link to my blog. 
http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/>
I will be detailing my experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas, especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. 
I apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me off list with questions. 
Aleeha Dudley 

From tyler at tysdomain.com  Fri Sep 11 12:29:18 2015
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:29:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
> 
- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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From hope.paulos at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 12:40:03 2015
From: hope.paulos at gmail.com (Hope Paulos)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:40:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>

I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers. 
Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot. 

Hope Paulos

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
> - -- 
> Take care,
> Ty
> twitter: @sorressean
> web:http://tysdomain.com
> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> 
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> =2AqU
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 12:47:40 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:47:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <010b01d0ec90$0c2c9b00$2485d100$@gmail.com>

>From what I understand, Colorado is a little more forgiving; I've taok to the people who both work and who have attended.  
I just figured I'd point that out.  I've heard the same thing you just said about LCB however.
 Justin.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Hope Paulos via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 8:40 AM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB

I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers. 
Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot. 

Hope Paulos

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of 
> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was 
> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what 
> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes, 
> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least 
> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for 
> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a 
> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is a 
>> link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my 
>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas, 
>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I apologize 
>> if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me off list 
>> with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list 
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, 
>> change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain
>> .com
> - --
> Take care,
> Ty
> twitter: @sorressean
> web:http://tysdomain.com
> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> 
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> =2AqU
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmai
> l.com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail.com



From kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 12:59:40 2015
From: kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com (Kathryn Webster)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:59:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <997414EA-4D7D-4FC7-BBDB-D80D1BEFDC5A@gmail.com>

Tyler,
  Please refrain from posting negative, unnecessary, and insignificant comments to the list. We request that all posts contribute to given discussions in a meaningful way.
Thank you in advance for understanding.

Best,
Kathryn Webster
NABS Treasurer/Secretary
   

Kathryn C. Webster
(203) 273-8463
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
> - -- 
> Take care,
> Ty
> twitter: @sorressean
> web:http://tysdomain.com
> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> 
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> =2AqU
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster.nfb%40gmail.com

From nelsonsam68 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 13:05:14 2015
From: nelsonsam68 at gmail.com (Sam Nelson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:05:14 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sharing blogs
Message-ID: <010601d0ec92$7fff4300$7ffdc900$@gmail.com>

 

Hi everyone, 

 Wanted to start a new thread on blogs. Would love to read others blogs if
people want to share. 

 Mine is: matterstosam.wordpress.com 

 I mainly  talk about mental health related stuff so if that's not your
thing you probably won't like it. Also do book reviews though. 

 Sam

Check out my blog 

 Matterstosam.wordpress.com 

 What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  and
anynomous survey! 

https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/

 



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Fri Sep 11 14:31:56 2015
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:31:56 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <997414EA-4D7D-4FC7-BBDB-D80D1BEFDC5A@gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<997414EA-4D7D-4FC7-BBDB-D80D1BEFDC5A@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL401-EAS11767F7815E4CA2F0EBDC53BA500@phx.gbl>

Hello Kathryn,

I find it interesting that you are only responding to Tyler's message and not Hope's message when they both appear to contain information about something they do not like about the NFB training centers. Even though the email could have been worded differently to convey a different attitude, I found Tyler's email to be rather meaningful to the discussion of using guide dogs at NFB training centers. I do not believe a person's experience should be any less significant simply because it happens to be negative rather than positive. If anything, I think people should be willing to hear both negative and positive experiences regarding NFB training centers before making the decision to attend an NFB training center. Therefore, I do not believe you have the right to ban someone from expressing their opinions regarding their own personal experience simply because you do not happen to agree with it.

Warm regards,
Elizabeth 

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Webster via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:00 AM
To: tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Kathryn Webster <kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB

Tyler,
  Please refrain from posting negative, unnecessary, and insignificant comments to the list. We request that all posts contribute to given discussions in a meaningful way.
Thank you in advance for understanding.

Best,
Kathryn Webster
NABS Treasurer/Secretary
   

Kathryn C. Webster
(203) 273-8463
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of 
> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was 
> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what 
> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes, 
> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least 
> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for 
> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a 
> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is a 
>> link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my 
>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas, 
>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I apologize 
>> if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me off list 
>> with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list 
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe, 
>> change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain
>> .com
> - --
> Take care,
> Ty
> twitter: @sorressean
> web:http://tysdomain.com
> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> 
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> =2AqU
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster.nfb
> %40gmail.com
_______________________________________________
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nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com


From blindstein at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 14:51:17 2015
From: blindstein at gmail.com (Justin Harford)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 07:51:17 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] sharing blogs
In-Reply-To: <010601d0ec92$7fff4300$7ffdc900$@gmail.com>
References: <010601d0ec92$7fff4300$7ffdc900$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>

Blindyanquireflections.blogspot.com

Political matters



> On Sep 11, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Sam Nelson via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone, 
> 
> Wanted to start a new thread on blogs. Would love to read others blogs if
> people want to share. 
> 
> Mine is: matterstosam.wordpress.com 
> 
> I mainly  talk about mental health related stuff so if that's not your
> thing you probably won't like it. Also do book reviews though. 
> 
> Sam
> 
> Check out my blog 
> 
> Matterstosam.wordpress.com 
> 
> What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  and
> anynomous survey! 
> 
> https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindstein%40gmail.com


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Fri Sep 11 15:03:34 2015
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:03:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <COL401-EAS11767F7815E4CA2F0EBDC53BA500@phx.gbl>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<997414EA-4D7D-4FC7-BBDB-D80D1BEFDC5A@gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS11767F7815E4CA2F0EBDC53BA500@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <55F2ED46.9040901@tysdomain.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello Elizabeth,
Thanks a lot--this is exactly what I wanted to say. I think Kathryn
has a bone to pick and wants to target me here, but my message
violates none of the list guidelines. Maybe I could have been less
angry, but it's a subject I'm understandably a bit bitter about.
On 9/11/2015 10:31 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote:
> Hello Kathryn,
> 
> I find it interesting that you are only responding to Tyler's
> message and not Hope's message when they both appear to contain
> information about something they do not like about the NFB training
> centers. Even though the email could have been worded differently
> to convey a different attitude, I found Tyler's email to be rather
> meaningful to the discussion of using guide dogs at NFB training
> centers. I do not believe a person's experience should be any less
> significant simply because it happens to be negative rather than
> positive. If anything, I think people should be willing to hear
> both negative and positive experiences regarding NFB training
> centers before making the decision to attend an NFB training
> center. Therefore, I do not believe you have the right to ban
> someone from expressing their opinions regarding their own personal
> experience simply because you do not happen to agree with it.
> 
> Warm regards, Elizabeth
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Webster via
> nabs-l Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:00 AM To:
> tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Cc: Kathryn Webster
> <kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my blog about
> my experiences at LCB
> 
> Tyler, Please refrain from posting negative, unnecessary, and
> insignificant comments to the list. We request that all posts
> contribute to given discussions in a meaningful way. Thank you in
> advance for understanding.
> 
> Best, Kathryn Webster NABS Treasurer/Secretary
> 
> 
> Kathryn C. Webster (203) 273-8463 Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>  discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>  discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote: Hey
>>>> all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here
>>>> is a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com 
>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>  experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog,
>>>> Dallas, especially given the center’s policies about guide
>>>> dogs. I apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel
>>>> free to write me off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l
>>>> mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain
>>>>
>>>> 
.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster.nfb
>>
>> 
%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
> 
- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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From matt.dierckens at me.com  Fri Sep 11 15:28:13 2015
From: matt.dierckens at me.com (Matthew Dierckens)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:28:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] sharing blogs
In-Reply-To: <EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>
References: <010601d0ec92$7fff4300$7ffdc900$@gmail.com>
	<EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <50622ED6-BACF-43AB-B173-DE72DF00593D@me.com>

Hi al,
Here is my blog that I am part of with about 5 others.
www.livingblindblog.com
God bless.
Matthew Dierckens
Certified Assistive Technology Specialist
Macintosh, Windows and IOS  Trainer
U.S. number: 573-401-1018
Personal Email: matt.dierckens at me.com

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 10:51 AM, Justin Harford via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Blindyanquireflections.blogspot.com
> 
> Political matters
> 
> 
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Sam Nelson via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Hi everyone, 
>> 
>> Wanted to start a new thread on blogs. Would love to read others blogs if
>> people want to share. 
>> 
>> Mine is: matterstosam.wordpress.com 
>> 
>> I mainly  talk about mental health related stuff so if that's not your
>> thing you probably won't like it. Also do book reviews though. 
>> 
>> Sam
>> 
>> Check out my blog 
>> 
>> Matterstosam.wordpress.com 
>> 
>> What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  and
>> anynomous survey! 
>> 
>> https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindstein%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/matt.dierckens%40me.com



From nelsonsam68 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 15:39:47 2015
From: nelsonsam68 at gmail.com (Sam Nelson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 10:39:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sharing blogs
In-Reply-To: <EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>
References: <010601d0ec92$7fff4300$7ffdc900$@gmail.com>
	<EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <002601d0eca8$1752af20$45f80d60$@gmail.com>

Hello. 
 Thanks so much! 
 Sam 

Check out my blog 
 Matterstosam.wordpress.com 
 What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  and
anynomous survey! 
https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Justin Harford
via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:51 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Justin Harford
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sharing blogs

Blindyanquireflections.blogspot.com

Political matters



> On Sep 11, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Sam Nelson via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Wanted to start a new thread on blogs. Would love to read others blogs 
> if people want to share.
> 
> Mine is: matterstosam.wordpress.com
> 
> I mainly  talk about mental health related stuff so if that's not your 
> thing you probably won't like it. Also do book reviews though.
> 
> Sam
> 
> Check out my blog
> 
> Matterstosam.wordpress.com
> 
> What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  
> and anynomous survey!
> 
> https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindstein%40gmail
> .com

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/nelsonsam68%40gmail.com


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



From sgermano at asu.edu  Fri Sep 11 15:58:05 2015
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 08:58:05 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <COL401-EAS11767F7815E4CA2F0EBDC53BA500@phx.gbl>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<997414EA-4D7D-4FC7-BBDB-D80D1BEFDC5A@gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS11767F7815E4CA2F0EBDC53BA500@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avc6ww2NYgY_pzDaTean_VK9kdWQBjctnYm1G7Rn=Vr-NA@mail.gmail.com>

Email lists and FaceBook groups are only valuable if people can be free to
give positive and negative opinions and comments. How can people make
informed decisions if they only get one sided information? I personally
value all opinions even if they differ from my own.

Suzanne

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hello Kathryn,
>
> I find it interesting that you are only responding to Tyler's message and
> not Hope's message when they both appear to contain information about
> something they do not like about the NFB training centers. Even though the
> email could have been worded differently to convey a different attitude, I
> found Tyler's email to be rather meaningful to the discussion of using
> guide dogs at NFB training centers. I do not believe a person's experience
> should be any less significant simply because it happens to be negative
> rather than positive. If anything, I think people should be willing to hear
> both negative and positive experiences regarding NFB training centers
> before making the decision to attend an NFB training center. Therefore, I
> do not believe you have the right to ban someone from expressing their
> opinions regarding their own personal experience simply because you do not
> happen to agree with it.
>
> Warm regards,
> Elizabeth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn
> Webster via nabs-l
> Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:00 AM
> To: tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Kathryn Webster <kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
>
> Tyler,
>   Please refrain from posting negative, unnecessary, and insignificant
> comments to the list. We request that all posts contribute to given
> discussions in a meaningful way.
> Thank you in advance for understanding.
>
> Best,
> Kathryn Webster
> NABS Treasurer/Secretary
>
>
> Kathryn C. Webster
> (203) 273-8463
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> >
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
> > your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
> > discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
> > discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
> > mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
> > I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
> > quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
> > what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
> > equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
> > straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
> >> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
> >> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is a
> >> link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
> >> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
> >> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
> >> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I apologize
> >> if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me off list
> >> with questions. Aleeha Dudley
> >> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing list
> >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To unsubscribe,
> >> change your list options or get your account info for
> >> nabs-l:
> >> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain
> >> .com
> > - --
> > Take care,
> > Ty
> > twitter: @sorressean
> > web:http://tysdomain.com
> > pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> > Version: GnuPG v2
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> > =2AqU
> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster.nfb
> > %40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From sgermano at asu.edu  Fri Sep 11 16:03:51 2015
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 09:03:51 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] sharing blogs
In-Reply-To: <EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>
References: <010601d0ec92$7fff4300$7ffdc900$@gmail.com>
	<EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_aveWHnZrYWnt9_A=T6oFqc26fTv1xwsx1r9aN0URQcUUzw@mail.gmail.com>

I have a blog about my experiences with Achromatopsia. Growing up legally
blind and at 50 getting my first driver's license with bioptics. I talk a
lot about that middle ground of not being sighted yet not being "blind
enough". Living in the weird place of, yes, I am legally blind and can
safely drive but no I can't find you in a restaurant and need my nose
against the book to read.

http://suzannegermano.blogspot.com/

I am working on my next post which will be about technology for school -
ZoomText, portable CCTVs, OpenBook etc

Suzanne

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Justin Harford via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Blindyanquireflections.blogspot.com
>
> Political matters
>
>
>
> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Sam Nelson via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Wanted to start a new thread on blogs. Would love to read others blogs if
> > people want to share.
> >
> > Mine is: matterstosam.wordpress.com
> >
> > I mainly  talk about mental health related stuff so if that's not your
> > thing you probably won't like it. Also do book reviews though.
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > Check out my blog
> >
> > Matterstosam.wordpress.com
> >
> > What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  and
> > anynomous survey!
> >
> > https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindstein%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From nelsonsam68 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 16:09:33 2015
From: nelsonsam68 at gmail.com (Sam Nelson)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 11:09:33 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] sharing blogs
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_aveWHnZrYWnt9_A=T6oFqc26fTv1xwsx1r9aN0URQcUUzw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <010601d0ec92$7fff4300$7ffdc900$@gmail.com>
	<EED872C5-D272-4FCA-AFCF-55DD52EE07BD@gmail.com>
	<CAF=_aveWHnZrYWnt9_A=T6oFqc26fTv1xwsx1r9aN0URQcUUzw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <00a701d0ecac$3fb37540$bf1a5fc0$@gmail.com>

Hey. 
 Cool! Look forward to reading! Have many friends with low vision who talk
about these struggles. 
 Sam 

Check out my blog 
 Matterstosam.wordpress.com 
 What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  and
anynomous survey! 
https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/


-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Suzanne Germano
via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 11:04 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Suzanne Germano
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] sharing blogs

I have a blog about my experiences with Achromatopsia. Growing up legally
blind and at 50 getting my first driver's license with bioptics. I talk a
lot about that middle ground of not being sighted yet not being "blind
enough". Living in the weird place of, yes, I am legally blind and can
safely drive but no I can't find you in a restaurant and need my nose
against the book to read.

http://suzannegermano.blogspot.com/

I am working on my next post which will be about technology for school -
ZoomText, portable CCTVs, OpenBook etc

Suzanne

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:51 AM, Justin Harford via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Blindyanquireflections.blogspot.com
>
> Political matters
>
>
>
> > On Sep 11, 2015, at 6:05 AM, Sam Nelson via nabs-l 
> > <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > Wanted to start a new thread on blogs. Would love to read others 
> > blogs if people want to share.
> >
> > Mine is: matterstosam.wordpress.com
> >
> > I mainly  talk about mental health related stuff so if that's not 
> > your thing you probably won't like it. Also do book reviews though.
> >
> > Sam
> >
> > Check out my blog
> >
> > Matterstosam.wordpress.com
> >
> > What's your preferred method of online peer support? Take this quick  
> > and anynomous survey!
> >
> > https://samjess.wufoo.com/forms/zfalva01wb12s0/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---
> > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > for
> nabs-l:
> >
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindstein%40gmail
> .com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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---
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Fri Sep 11 16:20:50 2015
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:20:50 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <55F2ED46.9040901@tysdomain.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com><55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com><997414EA-4D7D-4FC7-BBDB-D80D1BEFDC5A@gmail.com><COL401-EAS11767F7815E4CA2F0EBDC53BA500@phx.gbl>
	<55F2ED46.9040901@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <1C8D67DCDA32476C926F50BB326A1A0B@OwnerPC>

I thank Aleeha for sharing her blog and I look forward to reading it. I also 
wonder if the dog will feel lonely while she is in training and if the 
relationship will be compromised because I know dogs bond with their owners.

Tyler, I understand your position and I'm  sorry to learn you were not hired 
for a summer program. Since you're a wizz at technology and you strike me as 
a successful student, or maybe you already graduated,
I think you would be an assett to a summer program. However, there are other 
summer programs around the country such as those at Enchanted hills camp or 
Cleveland sight center, and I encourage you to apply to those programs if 
you are interested in working with blind children and youth.
Also, not sure what program you applied to, and its best not said IMO, but 
you might try other nfb centers that might have more dog friendly policies.

I welcome all opinions  even if they are negative. I think there is a 
tendency to not accept constructive critisism of NFB programs on nfb lists.
That's too bad since we need to hear all sides particularly if someone has 
had experiences with a program, so everyone can make an informed decision.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 11:03 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Littlefield, Tyler
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello Elizabeth,
Thanks a lot--this is exactly what I wanted to say. I think Kathryn
has a bone to pick and wants to target me here, but my message
violates none of the list guidelines. Maybe I could have been less
angry, but it's a subject I'm understandably a bit bitter about.
On 9/11/2015 10:31 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote:
> Hello Kathryn,
>
> I find it interesting that you are only responding to Tyler's
> message and not Hope's message when they both appear to contain
> information about something they do not like about the NFB training
> centers. Even though the email could have been worded differently
> to convey a different attitude, I found Tyler's email to be rather
> meaningful to the discussion of using guide dogs at NFB training
> centers. I do not believe a person's experience should be any less
> significant simply because it happens to be negative rather than
> positive. If anything, I think people should be willing to hear
> both negative and positive experiences regarding NFB training
> centers before making the decision to attend an NFB training
> center. Therefore, I do not believe you have the right to ban
> someone from expressing their opinions regarding their own personal
> experience simply because you do not happen to agree with it.
>
> Warm regards, Elizabeth
>
> -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l
> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Webster via
> nabs-l Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:00 AM To:
> tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Cc: Kathryn Webster
> <kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my blog about
> my experiences at LCB
>
> Tyler, Please refrain from posting negative, unnecessary, and
> insignificant comments to the list. We request that all posts
> contribute to given discussions in a meaningful way. Thank you in
> advance for understanding.
>
> Best, Kathryn Webster NABS Treasurer/Secretary
>
>
> Kathryn C. Webster (203) 273-8463 Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>  discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>  discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote: Hey
>>>> all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here
>>>> is a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>  experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog,
>>>> Dallas, especially given the center’s policies about guide
>>>> dogs. I apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel
>>>> free to write me off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l
>>>> mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain
>>>>
>>>>
.com
>>
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster.nfb
>>
>>
%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>
>  _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
>
- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 16:27:37 2015
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:27:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
company.

A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
electronically through the university's library database, which of
course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.

I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
services office.

I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.

There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?

I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
manner so I can do my work.

-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Fri Sep 11 16:38:26 2015
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:38:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avc6ww2NYgY_pzDaTean_VK9kdWQBjctnYm1G7Rn=Vr-NA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<997414EA-4D7D-4FC7-BBDB-D80D1BEFDC5A@gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS11767F7815E4CA2F0EBDC53BA500@phx.gbl>
	<CAF=_avc6ww2NYgY_pzDaTean_VK9kdWQBjctnYm1G7Rn=Vr-NA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F30382.8090908@tysdomain.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I was thinking about Kathryn's response because it really bothered me.
Mostly because I feel like she brought a personal issue into an
administrative decision, but because this seems to be the path that
most people take. When someone says they've had a negative experience,
they quickly get silenced so that the discussion of positive centers
can continue. I really dislike this idea where people do not have a
voice. Rather than quieting people, why not use that to create a
better situation? This is something I would expect from someone, most
especially who has a leadership role.
On 9/11/2015 11:58 AM, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l wrote:
> Email lists and FaceBook groups are only valuable if people can be
> free to give positive and negative opinions and comments. How can
> people make informed decisions if they only get one sided
> information? I personally value all opinions even if they differ
> from my own.
> 
> Suzanne
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 7:31 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l < 
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hello Kathryn,
>> 
>> I find it interesting that you are only responding to Tyler's
>> message and not Hope's message when they both appear to contain
>> information about something they do not like about the NFB
>> training centers. Even though the email could have been worded
>> differently to convey a different attitude, I found Tyler's email
>> to be rather meaningful to the discussion of using guide dogs at
>> NFB training centers. I do not believe a person's experience 
>> should be any less significant simply because it happens to be
>> negative rather than positive. If anything, I think people should
>> be willing to hear both negative and positive experiences
>> regarding NFB training centers before making the decision to
>> attend an NFB training center. Therefore, I do not believe you
>> have the right to ban someone from expressing their opinions
>> regarding their own personal experience simply because you do
>> not happen to agree with it.
>> 
>> Warm regards, Elizabeth
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: nabs-l
>> [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Webster
>> via nabs-l Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 9:00 AM To:
>> tyler at tysdomain.com; National Association of Blind Students
>> mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> Cc: Kathryn Webster
>> <kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] my blog
>> about my experiences at LCB
>> 
>> Tyler, Please refrain from posting negative, unnecessary, and
>> insignificant comments to the list. We request that all posts
>> contribute to given discussions in a meaningful way. Thank you in
>> advance for understanding.
>> 
>> Best, Kathryn Webster NABS Treasurer/Secretary
>> 
>> 
>> Kathryn C. Webster (203) 273-8463 Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote: Hey
>>>>> all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB,
>>>>> here is a link to my blog.
>>>>> http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com 
>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing
>>>>> my experiences in class, as well as those with my guide
>>>>> dog, Dallas, especially given the center’s policies about
>>>>> guide dogs. I apologize if this is off topic for the list.
>>>>> Feel free to write me off list with questions. Aleeha
>>>>> Dudley _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain
>>>>>
>>>>> 
.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for
>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster.nfb
>>>
>>> 
%40gmail.com
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>>
>>
>> 
_______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>
>
>> 
_______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
> 
- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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From carlos.montas at att.net  Fri Sep 11 16:46:08 2015
From: carlos.montas at att.net (Carlos Montas)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:46:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <25F1E1A2-1449-4B9F-9D12-488AB67E0148@att.net>

Good afternoon to all well that was not my experience.  I graduated from lcb in 2009. I am a guide dog user,  and I did not have any issches. I would say that the cane travel training has made me a better guide dog user.  The nfb does not discriminate just because you may be a guide dog user. 

From carlos.montas at att.net  Fri Sep 11 16:48:59 2015
From: carlos.montas at att.net (Carlos Montas)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 12:48:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>

I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful thing about America the freedom of choice. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers. 
> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot. 
> 
> Hope Paulos
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> 
>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l: 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>> - -- 
>> Take care,
>> Ty
>> twitter: @sorressean
>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v2
>> 
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>> =2AqU
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net


From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu  Fri Sep 11 17:26:03 2015
From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:26:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
Message-ID: <2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>

Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.

First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions. However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when she expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume, is the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate during her campaign announcement which he later apologized for. 

Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes to guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my cousin taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1. There may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in both is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that are important when using a cane or a dog. 

As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster and Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind person. Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through voc rehab and the center. 

Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB student board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy. Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our philosophical message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong and your organization is right. 

You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to debate philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and you should fully disclose your elected position.  

Best regards
Derek Manners



Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful thing about America the freedom of choice. 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers. 
>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot. 
>> 
>> Hope Paulos
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> Hash: SHA1
>>> 
>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l: 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>> - -- 
>>> Take care,
>>> Ty
>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>> 
>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV8skeAAoJEAdP60+BYxejBUUH/iBOX6rek4bJl8ou3T3lu/ug
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>>> =2AqU
>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Fri Sep 11 17:50:17 2015
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:50:17 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <55F31459.9050507@tysdomain.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hello Derik,
Thanks for your response. First, I want to note that I'm not
disagreeable. I'm posting about my views. I am not working to shut
down any legislation or lawsuits the NFB is involved in and I believe
that my work with ACB should not have any impact on the fact that I
was denied by a NFB backed organization because I was unwilling to
lock my dog in a room for hours at a time as an employee. While I
really didn't expect anything different from you, I'm amazed at how
you've shifted all of this on to another organizational spat, which
has nothing to do with my comments.

As to your note about me disagreeing with Kathryn's campaign, I noted
that she did grace us with her attention over at ACBS and had not
upheld her duties. I noted that not to be disagreeable as you
mentioned, but to make the note that I didn't know how she would
handle responsibilities as a NABS board member. Unlike some, I really
don't care which organization does work as long as it is work that can
further equal access and better opportunities for blind and disabled
people. While I might disagree with philosophies, I'm not going to
attempt to derail someone's campaign in an attempt to be disagreeable,
as you put it.

Regardless of my views and my associations with ACB, No organization
and most especially an organization who claims to speak for blind
people and promote equal access should refuse someone work because
they are unwilling to give up use of their guide dog for large periods
of time. As I said, I promote equality whenever and where I can. I
personally don't think I, or anyone else has a judgement call to make
when saying whether or not someone should use a tool that will help
them be more independant. If you want to use a cane and you can live
the life you want and are independant with that cane, awesome! If you
want to use a guide dog and can also live the life you want and be
independant, again I say that's pretty awesome and we should not be
discouraging either.

Thanks,
On 9/11/2015 1:26 PM, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote:
> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
> 
> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative
> opinions. However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what
> she meant when she expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her
> problem with it, I assume, is the tone. You can disagree without
> being disagreeable and unfortunately Tyler has shown a propensity
> to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate during her campaign
> announcement which he later apologized for.
> 
> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it
> comes to guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as
> to why my cousin taught me how to drive a car even though I can't
> legally drive one. 1. There may come a time when I'd need to and
> there may come a time in a guide dog user's life when they need to
> use a cane over a dog and being versed in both is important if you
> are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came travel teach
> you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that are
> important when using a cane or a dog.
> 
> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives
> advanced instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends
> Kate Webster and Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on
> coding as a blind person. Talking to a trainer informally who may
> or may not know what they are talking about is quite different than
> working out a formal plan through voc rehab and the center.
> 
> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are
> talking about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are
> on the ACB student board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes
> NFB and our philosophy. Your opinions are not those of someone who
> normally agrees with NFB philosophy who is pointing out a minor
> difference, you are someone who, in certain instances, works
> against our legislative efforts, our philosophical message, and
> actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong and
> your organization is right.
> 
> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy
> to debate philosophical differences. But you should do it in an
> agreeable tone and you should fully disclose your elected position.
> 
> 
> Best regards Derek Manners
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind
>> of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the
>> wonderful thing about America the freedom of choice.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a
>>> training center because I can't use him. I understand not being
>>> able to use them for travel classes, that makes sense, but not
>>> being able to use him for cooking, shop, and braille classes? I
>>> am also put off by the arrogance of some of the NFB center
>>> instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer at the
>>> convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we
>>> had on display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded
>>> to ask them a question. Because I have a graduate certificate
>>> in assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in
>>> technical support, I wanted to know if my technology classes
>>> would be tailored to my advanced needs. The instructor
>>> proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or
>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else,
>>> starting with keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting
>>> beside me, and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep
>>> in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company,
>>> and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a bachelors
>>> degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is
>>> on different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>> Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB
>>> centers. Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look
>>> forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A
>>> wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>> 
>>> Hope Paulos
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote: Hey
>>>>>> all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB,
>>>>>> here is a link to my blog.
>>>>>> http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com 
>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing
>>>>>> my experiences in class, as well as those with my guide
>>>>>> dog, Dallas, especially given the center’s policies about
>>>>>> guide dogs. I apologize if this is off topic for the
>>>>>> list. Feel free to write me off list with questions.
>>>>>> Aleeha Dudley 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l
>>>>>> mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To 
>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com

>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l: 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>
>>
>>> 
_______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>
>> 
> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
> 
- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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From minh.ha927 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 17:49:04 2015
From: minh.ha927 at gmail.com (minh ha)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:49:04 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>

Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
discriminated by the NFB.

Minh

On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>
> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when she
> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume, is
> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate during
> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>
> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes to
> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my cousin
> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1. There
> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog
> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in both
> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that are
> important when using a cane or a dog.
>
> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster and
> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind person.
> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through voc
> rehab and the center.
>
> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking
> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB student
> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in
> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our philosophical
> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong
> and your organization is right.
>
> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to debate
> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and you
> should fully disclose your elected position.
>
> Best regards
> Derek Manners
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training
>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them
>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for
>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance of
>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer
>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology,
>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know
>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or
>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with
>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked
>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive
>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a
>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately,
>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>
>>> Hope Paulos
>>>
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>
>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>> - --
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Ty
>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>>>
>>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV8skeAAoJEAdP60+BYxejBUUH/iBOX6rek4bJl8ou3T3lu/ug
>>>> uJwzBWCtKahTzxq/KxKvVJPgToDXFtTuagwWS3t+F1PZW9GSkoil6uEAt0OMT6n6
>>>> nauHkSDFfrRdTNEjpMfPaRo1NbLJrbmBCO1Eaf5MkE3a5lIg5Ei63GL+h2N6biCg
>>>> q0tdWxOwdQQSUnTUuGugsLQCRuVPab1lh+reRTydreuhdWpvpBe4UbTnIWFViFK+
>>>> TMGMQoKvgkOYL3VfmzQ/tq2ufZeBRtIFonaELFKH7vV3mBLuYa5PnPFqWj+gWwFY
>>>> j8fWvm1toEYqTudZmJzI4WOU0RPFYFMG4FwPw+fZ/K36lUgFbUFlQt4wAo/ocAI=
>>>> =2AqU
>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Minh Ha
Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
minh.ha927 at gmail.com

"All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence


From carlos.montas at att.net  Fri Sep 11 18:06:27 2015
From: carlos.montas at att.net (Carlos Montas)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:06:27 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <87E8F21B-C2CF-4A8B-8C89-676E6FCFF26B@att.net>

Good afternoon I could not have said it any better. As a rehabilitation counselor my self, I understand the principle of freedom of choice.  Tyler I would encourage you to read the book titled Walking Alone Marching Together.  Both organizations have their place.  I am sorry that your experience with the nfb training centers was not the best. Although they are not perfect I can say that given the training I received and my experience as a counselor the training centers really are the best training that money can buy.  We need to have high expectations of our selves as people and the centers do a great job of that. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:26 PM, Derek Manners <dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu> wrote:
> 
> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
> 
> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions. However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when she expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume, is the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate during her campaign announcement which he later apologized for. 
> 
> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes to guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my cousin taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1. There may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in both is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that are important when using a cane or a dog. 
> 
> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster and Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind person. Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through voc rehab and the center. 
> 
> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB student board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy. Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our philosophical message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong and your organization is right. 
> 
> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to debate philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and you should fully disclose your elected position.  
> 
> Best regards
> Derek Manners
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful thing about America the freedom of choice. 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers. 
>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot. 
>>> 
>>> Hope Paulos
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>> 
>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l: 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>> - -- 
>>>> Take care,
>>>> Ty
>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>>> 
>>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV8skeAAoJEAdP60+BYxejBUUH/iBOX6rek4bJl8ou3T3lu/ug
>>>> uJwzBWCtKahTzxq/KxKvVJPgToDXFtTuagwWS3t+F1PZW9GSkoil6uEAt0OMT6n6
>>>> nauHkSDFfrRdTNEjpMfPaRo1NbLJrbmBCO1Eaf5MkE3a5lIg5Ei63GL+h2N6biCg
>>>> q0tdWxOwdQQSUnTUuGugsLQCRuVPab1lh+reRTydreuhdWpvpBe4UbTnIWFViFK+
>>>> TMGMQoKvgkOYL3VfmzQ/tq2ufZeBRtIFonaELFKH7vV3mBLuYa5PnPFqWj+gWwFY
>>>> j8fWvm1toEYqTudZmJzI4WOU0RPFYFMG4FwPw+fZ/K36lUgFbUFlQt4wAo/ocAI=
>>>> =2AqU
>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu


From ropermeaghan at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 18:13:19 2015
From: ropermeaghan at gmail.com (Roper, Meaghan)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:13:19 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bluetooth Keyboard for iPad using Voiceover
Message-ID: <387E1CFD-0AD5-4829-A135-C2003E8E1DEF@gmail.com>

Hi everyone, 

I have a questions for iPad/iPhone users that use voiceover with a Bluetooth keyboard. I recently got a new keyboard (not from Apple) and i am able to navigate the screen with VoiceOver on using the right and left arrow keys as well as the rotor menu with the up and down keys. The issue I am facing however is the ability to select apps or command functions with the keyboard. Generally to select an app or function while using VoiceOver, you double tap the screen after the reader has focused on the desired item. This command should translate into the enter key on the keyboard but is not in this case. Does anyone know of other keyboard commands for the I-products that I could try? 

Thanks,

Meaghan 




From carlos.montas at att.net  Fri Sep 11 18:15:38 2015
From: carlos.montas at att.net (Carlos Montas)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:15:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <55F31459.9050507@tysdomain.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<55F31459.9050507@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <14CFAFC6-1A9C-4E3C-9112-571332E799DB@att.net>

I would like to point out that I have a friend who went to guide dog school with me  this past March. She is working for the National Center as the Social media director. Lets all just try to com down and  take it easy.  The attitudes about guide dogs and the nfb has changed and like I said consumers have the right to choose what training center to attend.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:50 PM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Hello Derik,
> Thanks for your response. First, I want to note that I'm not
> disagreeable. I'm posting about my views. I am not working to shut
> down any legislation or lawsuits the NFB is involved in and I believe
> that my work with ACB should not have any impact on the fact that I
> was denied by a NFB backed organization because I was unwilling to
> lock my dog in a room for hours at a time as an employee. While I
> really didn't expect anything different from you, I'm amazed at how
> you've shifted all of this on to another organizational spat, which
> has nothing to do with my comments.
> 
> As to your note about me disagreeing with Kathryn's campaign, I noted
> that she did grace us with her attention over at ACBS and had not
> upheld her duties. I noted that not to be disagreeable as you
> mentioned, but to make the note that I didn't know how she would
> handle responsibilities as a NABS board member. Unlike some, I really
> don't care which organization does work as long as it is work that can
> further equal access and better opportunities for blind and disabled
> people. While I might disagree with philosophies, I'm not going to
> attempt to derail someone's campaign in an attempt to be disagreeable,
> as you put it.
> 
> Regardless of my views and my associations with ACB, No organization
> and most especially an organization who claims to speak for blind
> people and promote equal access should refuse someone work because
> they are unwilling to give up use of their guide dog for large periods
> of time. As I said, I promote equality whenever and where I can. I
> personally don't think I, or anyone else has a judgement call to make
> when saying whether or not someone should use a tool that will help
> them be more independant. If you want to use a cane and you can live
> the life you want and are independant with that cane, awesome! If you
> want to use a guide dog and can also live the life you want and be
> independant, again I say that's pretty awesome and we should not be
> discouraging either.
> 
> Thanks,
>> On 9/11/2015 1:26 PM, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote:
>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>> 
>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative
>> opinions. However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what
>> she meant when she expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her
>> problem with it, I assume, is the tone. You can disagree without
>> being disagreeable and unfortunately Tyler has shown a propensity
>> to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate during her campaign
>> announcement which he later apologized for.
>> 
>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it
>> comes to guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as
>> to why my cousin taught me how to drive a car even though I can't
>> legally drive one. 1. There may come a time when I'd need to and
>> there may come a time in a guide dog user's life when they need to
>> use a cane over a dog and being versed in both is important if you
>> are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came travel teach
>> you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that are
>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>> 
>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives
>> advanced instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends
>> Kate Webster and Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on
>> coding as a blind person. Talking to a trainer informally who may
>> or may not know what they are talking about is quite different than
>> working out a formal plan through voc rehab and the center.
>> 
>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are
>> talking about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are
>> on the ACB student board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes
>> NFB and our philosophy. Your opinions are not those of someone who
>> normally agrees with NFB philosophy who is pointing out a minor
>> difference, you are someone who, in certain instances, works
>> against our legislative efforts, our philosophical message, and
>> actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong and
>> your organization is right.
>> 
>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy
>> to debate philosophical differences. But you should do it in an
>> agreeable tone and you should fully disclose your elected position.
>> 
>> 
>> Best regards Derek Manners
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind
>>> of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the
>>> wonderful thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a
>>>> training center because I can't use him. I understand not being
>>>> able to use them for travel classes, that makes sense, but not
>>>> being able to use him for cooking, shop, and braille classes? I
>>>> am also put off by the arrogance of some of the NFB center
>>>> instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer at the
>>>> convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we
>>>> had on display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded
>>>> to ask them a question. Because I have a graduate certificate
>>>> in assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in
>>>> technical support, I wanted to know if my technology classes
>>>> would be tailored to my advanced needs. The instructor
>>>> proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or
>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else,
>>>> starting with keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting
>>>> beside me, and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep
>>>> in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company,
>>>> and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a bachelors
>>>> degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is
>>>> on different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>> Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB
>>>> centers. Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look
>>>> forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A
>>>> wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>> 
>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
>> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
>> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
>> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
>> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
>> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
>> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
>> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote: Hey
>>>>>>> all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB,
>>>>>>> here is a link to my blog.
>>>>>>> http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com 
>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing
>>>>>>> my experiences in class, as well as those with my guide
>>>>>>> dog, Dallas, especially given the center’s policies about
>>>>>>> guide dogs. I apologize if this is off topic for the
>>>>>>> list. Feel free to write me off list with questions.
>>>>>>> Aleeha Dudley 
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l
>>>>>>> mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To 
>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>>> for nabs-l: 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l: 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>> 
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l: 
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>> 
>> 
> - -- 
> Take care,
> Ty
> twitter: @sorressean
> web:http://tysdomain.com
> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> 
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> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net


From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu  Fri Sep 11 18:22:37 2015
From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:22:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <A901B157-7962-4656-B512-9F417D21A4F4@jd16.law.harvard.edu>

I don't want to belabor the point but I want to make sure Tyler, Minh, and others understand what I'm saying. 

There's a difference between tone and substance. Tone wise, Tyler, you have a propensity for saying things in a disagreeable way that is unhelpful. For example: "I find it rather amusing", "discriminate" (spelling corrected) so hard, "first to scream", and "drink the Cool-Aid" are all fairly inflammatorily tinged words and phrases. 

The reason I say you should disclose your affiliation is because you mislead folks when you say stuff like, "We're the first to ask for equal access..."  I don't care that you are a member of ACB. I just think your comments shouldn't be read as someone who typically agrees with NFB philosophy giving advice to other NFB members, it should be read as someone who belongs to an organization that apposes the TEACH Act comprise, Maryland's online Accessible voting initiative, etc. 

As to the actual substantive disagreement part of your email, I don't think it's discrimination to ask you to practice what we preach in a very controlled environment meant to foster learning even though we'd never ask you to do that in any other setting. There are plenty of guide dog users in our organization. One of my best friends in our movement is assistant to President Riccabono and she brings her dog to work everyday at the national office. 

Finally, I don't have any issue with Tyler or anyone else on the ACB board. I consider Sara Whiles a good friend (she is also on the ACB board) and I know our student president in Massachusetts is close with the MA ACB student president etc. I was friends with Kate when she was ACB treasurer. I've also privately messaged Tyler and expressed interest in getting to know him and you (Minh) better since we all live in the same area and you guys are roommates. 

As someone with an economics background, I encourage open discussion of all training centers; the good, the bad, and the ugly. People should be able to make an informed decision. I just think we should do it civilly and let people know what are biases are and not misrepresent ourselves as something we are not. 

Best regards
Derek Manners


Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:49 PM, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
> branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
> the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
> have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
> training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
> Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
> from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
> you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
> even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
> discriminated by the NFB.
> 
> Minh
> 
>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>> 
>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
>> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when she
>> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume, is
>> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
>> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate during
>> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>> 
>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes to
>> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my cousin
>> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1. There
>> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog
>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in both
>> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
>> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that are
>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>> 
>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
>> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster and
>> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind person.
>> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through voc
>> rehab and the center.
>> 
>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking
>> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB student
>> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
>> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
>> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in
>> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our philosophical
>> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong
>> and your organization is right.
>> 
>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to debate
>> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and you
>> should fully disclose your elected position.
>> 
>> Best regards
>> Derek Manners
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training
>>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them
>>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for
>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance of
>>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer
>>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology,
>>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know
>>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate or
>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with
>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked
>>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive
>>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a
>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately,
>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>> 
>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>> 
>>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>> - --
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>>>> 
>>>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV8skeAAoJEAdP60+BYxejBUUH/iBOX6rek4bJl8ou3T3lu/ug
>>>>> uJwzBWCtKahTzxq/KxKvVJPgToDXFtTuagwWS3t+F1PZW9GSkoil6uEAt0OMT6n6
>>>>> nauHkSDFfrRdTNEjpMfPaRo1NbLJrbmBCO1Eaf5MkE3a5lIg5Ei63GL+h2N6biCg
>>>>> q0tdWxOwdQQSUnTUuGugsLQCRuVPab1lh+reRTydreuhdWpvpBe4UbTnIWFViFK+
>>>>> TMGMQoKvgkOYL3VfmzQ/tq2ufZeBRtIFonaELFKH7vV3mBLuYa5PnPFqWj+gWwFY
>>>>> j8fWvm1toEYqTudZmJzI4WOU0RPFYFMG4FwPw+fZ/K36lUgFbUFlQt4wAo/ocAI=
>>>>> =2AqU
>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
> 
> 
> -- 
> Minh Ha
> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
> 
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu


From dsykora29 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 18:33:01 2015
From: dsykora29 at gmail.com (Danielle Sykora)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:33:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l]  my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAAdv8fpk_WGxcDBVkKqUykrwS8qdrkeG+ZNaDd0v4niWE1yvgQ@mail.gmail.com>

Not allowing students to use guide dogs in travel classes is
understandable since it would significantly alter the skills the
student is being taught. I do think that incorporating the dog into
travel classes once the student becomes proficient in structured
discovery methods would be beneficial to the student. This would give
her the opportunity to start applying the skills she has learned while
traveling with a cane to a dog while still having the opportunity to
receive feedback and ask questions to a qualified instructor.
Orientation skills are important regardless of the type of mobility
aid, but the feedback one gets from the environment differs with a
cane when compared to a dog.

That being said, I see the NFB center policy that forbids students
from being allowed to work their dogs during other (non-travel
related) classes to be blatantly discriminatory. There is no reason
why a student should not bring her dog to say Braille instruction.
These students are adults who need to find a balance between working
their dogs and practicing cane travel. How do centers handle
non-guiding service dogs? More complicated, what are their policies
regarding guides that are cross trained for other tasks?

I truly think some non-dog users do not fully understand how guide
dogs work. You can not expect leaving a dog for a near constant eight
hours a day, five days a week will not have negative consequences from
damaging the bond to stress and boredom related behaviors to more
frequent mistakes due to lack of work. I know the majority of NFB
members are respectful of others mobility choices, but an anti-dog
ideology still lingers no matter how much people deny it. Perhaps it
is due to lack of education. It seems as if people with anti-views
often have a distorted idea of how a guide dog partner ship works in
my experience. I honestly don't know.

I find it troubling that negative experiences and criticism of NFB
sponsored programs is so discouraged on these lists. I'm not trying to
be derogatory or critical. I want to make situations better, and you
can not do that if you only focus on the positives.

Danielle


On 9/11/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
> branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
> the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
> have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
> training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
> Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
> from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
> you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
> even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
> discriminated by the NFB.
>
> Minh
>
> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>
>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
>> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when
>> she
>> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume,
>> is
>> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
>> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>> during
>> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>>
>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes
>> to
>> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my
>> cousin
>> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1.
>> There
>> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog
>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in
>> both
>> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
>> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that
>> are
>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>>
>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
>> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster
>> and
>> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind
>> person.
>> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through
>> voc
>> rehab and the center.
>>
>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking
>> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB
>> student
>> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
>> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
>> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in
>> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our
>> philosophical
>> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong
>> and your organization is right.
>>
>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to
>> debate
>> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and
>> you
>> should fully disclose your elected position.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Derek Manners
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training
>>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them
>>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for
>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance
>>>> of
>>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer
>>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology,
>>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know
>>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate
>>>> or
>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with
>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were
>>>> shocked
>>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive
>>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a
>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>
>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>
>>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>> - --
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>>>>
>>>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV8skeAAoJEAdP60+BYxejBUUH/iBOX6rek4bJl8ou3T3lu/ug
>>>>> uJwzBWCtKahTzxq/KxKvVJPgToDXFtTuagwWS3t+F1PZW9GSkoil6uEAt0OMT6n6
>>>>> nauHkSDFfrRdTNEjpMfPaRo1NbLJrbmBCO1Eaf5MkE3a5lIg5Ei63GL+h2N6biCg
>>>>> q0tdWxOwdQQSUnTUuGugsLQCRuVPab1lh+reRTydreuhdWpvpBe4UbTnIWFViFK+
>>>>> TMGMQoKvgkOYL3VfmzQ/tq2ufZeBRtIFonaELFKH7vV3mBLuYa5PnPFqWj+gWwFY
>>>>> j8fWvm1toEYqTudZmJzI4WOU0RPFYFMG4FwPw+fZ/K36lUgFbUFlQt4wAo/ocAI=
>>>>> =2AqU
>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Minh Ha
> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>


From chris.omeally at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 18:43:26 2015
From: chris.omeally at gmail.com (Christopher O'meally)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:43:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bluetooth Keyboard for iPad using Voiceover
In-Reply-To: <387E1CFD-0AD5-4829-A135-C2003E8E1DEF@gmail.com>
References: <387E1CFD-0AD5-4829-A135-C2003E8E1DEF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CACOe-GXC_eQMQY3_vswDdvuTivMjZFqvYeY+-6FTBFZeW9ekPQ@mail.gmail.com>

well, when navigating with the arrow keys you are using a function
called quick nav, witch you turn on and off via the left arrow plus
the right arrow.  to perform the double tap on your keyboard, press
the up arrow plus the down arrow.

On 9/11/15, Roper, Meaghan via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I have a questions for iPad/iPhone users that use voiceover with a Bluetooth
> keyboard. I recently got a new keyboard (not from Apple) and i am able to
> navigate the screen with VoiceOver on using the right and left arrow keys as
> well as the rotor menu with the up and down keys. The issue I am facing
> however is the ability to select apps or command functions with the
> keyboard. Generally to select an app or function while using VoiceOver, you
> double tap the screen after the reader has focused on the desired item. This
> command should translate into the enter key on the keyboard but is not in
> this case. Does anyone know of other keyboard commands for the I-products
> that I could try?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Meaghan
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chris.omeally%40gmail.com
>


From ropermeaghan at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 18:45:03 2015
From: ropermeaghan at gmail.com (Roper, Meaghan)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 14:45:03 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bluetooth Keyboard for iPad using Voiceover
In-Reply-To: <CACOe-GXC_eQMQY3_vswDdvuTivMjZFqvYeY+-6FTBFZeW9ekPQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <387E1CFD-0AD5-4829-A135-C2003E8E1DEF@gmail.com>
	<CACOe-GXC_eQMQY3_vswDdvuTivMjZFqvYeY+-6FTBFZeW9ekPQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CD2282E9-99CD-4175-AD57-B110BE96BF78@gmail.com>

Thank you! 

Meaghan 



> On Sep 11, 2015, at 2:43 PM, Christopher O'meally via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> well, when navigating with the arrow keys you are using a function
> called quick nav, witch you turn on and off via the left arrow plus
> the right arrow.  to perform the double tap on your keyboard, press
> the up arrow plus the down arrow.
> 
>> On 9/11/15, Roper, Meaghan via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi everyone,
>> 
>> I have a questions for iPad/iPhone users that use voiceover with a Bluetooth
>> keyboard. I recently got a new keyboard (not from Apple) and i am able to
>> navigate the screen with VoiceOver on using the right and left arrow keys as
>> well as the rotor menu with the up and down keys. The issue I am facing
>> however is the ability to select apps or command functions with the
>> keyboard. Generally to select an app or function while using VoiceOver, you
>> double tap the screen after the reader has focused on the desired item. This
>> command should translate into the enter key on the keyboard but is not in
>> this case. Does anyone know of other keyboard commands for the I-products
>> that I could try?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Meaghan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/chris.omeally%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ropermeaghan%40gmail.com


From tyler at tysdomain.com  Fri Sep 11 19:05:32 2015
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:05:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <A901B157-7962-4656-B512-9F417D21A4F4@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A901B157-7962-4656-B512-9F417D21A4F4@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
Message-ID: <55F325FC.6060401@tysdomain.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Again, no matter how many examples you've provided about people
bridging the gap and roasting marshmallows, my point still stands. I
honestly do not fully understand all of what ACB is doing as
legislation is not my cup of tea, but regardless of what they've
opposed and not opposed, my views should not count as lesser. It's a
great way to sweep the problem under the rug by yelling "Hey look,
he's a member of the ACB! Lets burn crosses because they opposed this
act." That's not really the point and everything you've said shows
you've missed that. I'm more than happy to have meaningful discussions
with anyone and honestly I don't really care which organization
someone is from as long as said discussions can take place. But when
my views are attacked or I am required to note that I'm from ACB so I
can get branded with the "They opposed this act," I think we have a
problem.

The fact is, as much as you and Carlos want to deny the point, I
applied for a summer job in a position which I was qualified for. The
interview went great until we got on the subject of dogs, at which
point I had to deal with many pointed questions about whether or not
I'd be able to leave my dog in the room. Now, I'm no lawyer, but I
think said pointed questions probably violates the ADA. Perhaps rather
than discrediting my points because I'm with the ACB attention should
be drawn back to this point.
On 9/11/2015 2:22 PM, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote:
> I don't want to belabor the point but I want to make sure Tyler,
> Minh, and others understand what I'm saying.
> 
> There's a difference between tone and substance. Tone wise, Tyler,
> you have a propensity for saying things in a disagreeable way that
> is unhelpful. For example: "I find it rather amusing",
> "discriminate" (spelling corrected) so hard, "first to scream", and
> "drink the Cool-Aid" are all fairly inflammatorily tinged words and
> phrases.
> 
> The reason I say you should disclose your affiliation is because
> you mislead folks when you say stuff like, "We're the first to ask
> for equal access..."  I don't care that you are a member of ACB. I
> just think your comments shouldn't be read as someone who typically
> agrees with NFB philosophy giving advice to other NFB members, it
> should be read as someone who belongs to an organization that
> apposes the TEACH Act comprise, Maryland's online Accessible voting
> initiative, etc.
> 
> As to the actual substantive disagreement part of your email, I
> don't think it's discrimination to ask you to practice what we
> preach in a very controlled environment meant to foster learning
> even though we'd never ask you to do that in any other setting.
> There are plenty of guide dog users in our organization. One of my
> best friends in our movement is assistant to President Riccabono
> and she brings her dog to work everyday at the national office.
> 
> Finally, I don't have any issue with Tyler or anyone else on the
> ACB board. I consider Sara Whiles a good friend (she is also on the
> ACB board) and I know our student president in Massachusetts is
> close with the MA ACB student president etc. I was friends with
> Kate when she was ACB treasurer. I've also privately messaged Tyler
> and expressed interest in getting to know him and you (Minh) better
> since we all live in the same area and you guys are roommates.
> 
> As someone with an economics background, I encourage open
> discussion of all training centers; the good, the bad, and the
> ugly. People should be able to make an informed decision. I just
> think we should do it civilly and let people know what are biases
> are and not misrepresent ourselves as something we are not.
> 
> Best regards Derek Manners
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:49 PM, minh ha via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that 
>> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without
>> being branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively
>> working against the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions,
>> and other people have expressed displeasure at how they have been
>> treated by the NFB training centers, and yet, only Tyler have
>> been targeted by you and Katherine on list for his messages. This
>> has been a recurring problem from what I have seen, and if I
>> didn't know any better, I would say you and Katherine have a
>> personal issue with Tyler since he is on ACBS's board. And quite
>> frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't even have any
>> relevance in this conversation when it comes to being 
>> discriminated by the NFB.
>> 
>> Minh
>> 
>>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote: Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>> 
>>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative
>>> opinions. However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating
>>> what she meant when she expressed disapproval of Tyler's
>>> message. Her problem with it, I assume, is the tone. You can
>>> disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately Tyler has
>>> shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>>> during her campaign announcement which he later apologized
>>> for.
>>> 
>>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when
>>> it comes to guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar
>>> philosophy as to why my cousin taught me how to drive a car
>>> even though I can't legally drive one. 1. There may come a time
>>> when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog 
>>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being
>>> versed in both is important if you are a dog user. Second,
>>> there are lessons that came travel teach you about mobility
>>> with regard to structured discovery that are important when
>>> using a cane or a dog.
>>> 
>>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives
>>> advanced instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my
>>> friends Kate Webster and Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting
>>> training on coding as a blind person. Talking to a trainer
>>> informally who may or may not know what they are talking about
>>> is quite different than working out a formal plan through voc 
>>> rehab and the center.
>>> 
>>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you
>>> are talking about your philosophical views about the NFB that
>>> you are on the ACB student board and that ACB routinely
>>> publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy. Your opinions are
>>> not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB philosophy
>>> who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who,
>>> in certain instances, works against our legislative efforts,
>>> our philosophical message, and actively tries to influence
>>> state agencies that we are wrong and your organization is
>>> right.
>>> 
>>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's
>>> healthy to debate philosophical differences. But you should do
>>> it in an agreeable tone and you should fully disclose your
>>> elected position.
>>> 
>>> Best regards Derek Manners
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what
>>>> kind of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That
>>>> is the wonderful thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't
>>>>> attend a training center because I can't use him. I
>>>>> understand not being able to use them for travel classes,
>>>>> that makes sense, but not being able to use him for 
>>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by
>>>>> the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I was
>>>>> working the booth as a trainer at the convention for an
>>>>> assistive technology company.  A center instructor came up
>>>>> wanting to look at some of the products we had on display.
>>>>> I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them
>>>>> a question. Because I have a graduate certificate in
>>>>> assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in
>>>>> technical support, I wanted to know if my technology
>>>>> classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The 
>>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate
>>>>> certificate or not, you will go through the same class as
>>>>> everyone else, starting with keyboarding." My colleague,
>>>>> who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked at this
>>>>> person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an
>>>>> assistive technology company, and I have to start with
>>>>> keyboarding? I also have a bachelors degree in education…
>>>>> The first thing that you learned about teaching is that
>>>>> everybody learns differently, and everybody is on different
>>>>> levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>>> Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB
>>>>> centers. Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I
>>>>> look forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A
>>>>> wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via
>>>>>> nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l
>>>>>>>> wrote: Hey all, If you’d like to read about my
>>>>>>>> experiences at LCB, here is a link to my blog.
>>>>>>>> http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com 
>>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be
>>>>>>>> detailing my experiences in class, as well as those
>>>>>>>> with my guide dog, Dallas, especially given the
>>>>>>>> center’s policies about guide dogs. I apologize if
>>>>>>>> this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write
>>>>>>>> me off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l: 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>
>>> 
- -- 
>> Minh Ha Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16 
>> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>> 
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it
>> was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for
>> they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them
>> possible." T. E. Lawrence
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>
>> 
> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
> 
- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu  Fri Sep 11 19:01:16 2015
From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:01:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <CAAdv8fpk_WGxcDBVkKqUykrwS8qdrkeG+ZNaDd0v4niWE1yvgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdv8fpk_WGxcDBVkKqUykrwS8qdrkeG+ZNaDd0v4niWE1yvgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FF8CC229-41B0-4A09-BE7B-FAE94C866873@jd16.law.harvard.edu>

Danielle, I applaud your email. It's a perfect example of disagreeing without being disagreeable. 

As to the claim of discrimination, I don't think that's a fair criticism. NFB training centers are a total immersion program. There are sleep shades, a cane only policy, and a push toward total independence in all activities with no human help. 

Dog users already have mobility training with their guide dogs as part of their initial training with the dog no?

If a student does not want to do total immersion, that's fine but then they probably shouldn't sign up for a total immersion program. 

Just as there are language classes and language immersion programs, there are differences between training centers/programs and people should chose which works best for them. It's pedagogical, not discriminatory. 

As to not understanding guide dogs, I think the problem is actually reverse. I think folks don't understand our center's philosophy. Obviously it's not an ideal situation to separate guide dogs and owners for a long period of time. But you can't have total immersion without doing that.plus there are other options. 

People can chose to get their guide dogs after training. 

They can leave them with a family member (this doesn't fix all the problems you mentioned but it does fix some of them).

People can mitigate the working day absence buy engaging the dog in the evening. I'd posit that many folks who work at a desk and have their dog with them probably cause their dog to be rather bored and don't give it much work during the day either. Still, I take your point that it's still more stressful for the dog to be alone for several hours as apposed to being under a desk but it's still not ideal).  

People can pick less immersive programs that aren't as cane and individual mobility focused and are either hybrids or dog focused. 

The national association of guide dog users don't find the NFB training centers discriminatory and they certainly understand guide dogs. The difference is they also understand NFB philosophy. 

Best regards
Derek Manners

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 2:33 PM, Danielle Sykora via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Not allowing students to use guide dogs in travel classes is
> understandable since it would significantly alter the skills the
> student is being taught. I do think that incorporating the dog into
> travel classes once the student becomes proficient in structured
> discovery methods would be beneficial to the student. This would give
> her the opportunity to start applying the skills she has learned while
> traveling with a cane to a dog while still having the opportunity to
> receive feedback and ask questions to a qualified instructor.
> Orientation skills are important regardless of the type of mobility
> aid, but the feedback one gets from the environment differs with a
> cane when compared to a dog.
> 
> That being said, I see the NFB center policy that forbids students
> from being allowed to work their dogs during other (non-travel
> related) classes to be blatantly discriminatory. There is no reason
> why a student should not bring her dog to say Braille instruction.
> These students are adults who need to find a balance between working
> their dogs and practicing cane travel. How do centers handle
> non-guiding service dogs? More complicated, what are their policies
> regarding guides that are cross trained for other tasks?
> 
> I truly think some non-dog users do not fully understand how guide
> dogs work. You can not expect leaving a dog for a near constant eight
> hours a day, five days a week will not have negative consequences from
> damaging the bond to stress and boredom related behaviors to more
> frequent mistakes due to lack of work. I know the majority of NFB
> members are respectful of others mobility choices, but an anti-dog
> ideology still lingers no matter how much people deny it. Perhaps it
> is due to lack of education. It seems as if people with anti-views
> often have a distorted idea of how a guide dog partner ship works in
> my experience. I honestly don't know.
> 
> I find it troubling that negative experiences and criticism of NFB
> sponsored programs is so discouraged on these lists. I'm not trying to
> be derogatory or critical. I want to make situations better, and you
> can not do that if you only focus on the positives.
> 
> Danielle
> 
> 
>> On 9/11/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
>> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
>> branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
>> the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
>> have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
>> training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
>> Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
>> from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
>> you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
>> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
>> even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
>> discriminated by the NFB.
>> 
>> Minh
>> 
>>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>> 
>>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
>>> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when
>>> she
>>> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume,
>>> is
>>> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
>>> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>>> during
>>> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>>> 
>>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes
>>> to
>>> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my
>>> cousin
>>> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1.
>>> There
>>> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog
>>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in
>>> both
>>> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
>>> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that
>>> are
>>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>>> 
>>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
>>> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster
>>> and
>>> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind
>>> person.
>>> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
>>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through
>>> voc
>>> rehab and the center.
>>> 
>>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking
>>> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB
>>> student
>>> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
>>> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
>>> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in
>>> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our
>>> philosophical
>>> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong
>>> and your organization is right.
>>> 
>>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to
>>> debate
>>> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and
>>> you
>>> should fully disclose your elected position.
>>> 
>>> Best regards
>>> Derek Manners
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>>>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>>>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training
>>>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them
>>>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for
>>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance
>>>>> of
>>>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer
>>>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology,
>>>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know
>>>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate
>>>>> or
>>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with
>>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were
>>>>> shocked
>>>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive
>>>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a
>>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>> - --
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v2
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>>>>>> =2AqU
>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Minh Ha
>> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
>> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>> 
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 19:36:49 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:36:49 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
Message-ID: <55f32d63.81f20d0a.bf455.51df@mx.google.com>

You did a great job writing this.  I hope to read more from you 
soon.


From carlos.montas at att.net  Fri Sep 11 19:39:30 2015
From: carlos.montas at att.net (Carlos Montas)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:39:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <55F325FC.6060401@tysdomain.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<A901B157-7962-4656-B512-9F417D21A4F4@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<55F325FC.6060401@tysdomain.com>
Message-ID: <4428B57F-4235-4191-8032-8ACD56FECEB1@att.net>

Again I am sorry that you did not have a good experience.  Let me point out that I worked with the Step program in Louisiana.  I have a guide dog and lets also remember that many people apply for these positions every year.  I am sure that the reason why you did not get the position had nothing to do with you having a guide dog.  Any time we fail at any thing it is important to look at our selves so that we can improve are skills and the way we present our selves. At times it is easier to  blame others when the real issue could be right in front of us.  

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 3:05 PM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> 
> Again, no matter how many examples you've provided about people
> bridging the gap and roasting marshmallows, my point still stands. I
> honestly do not fully understand all of what ACB is doing as
> legislation is not my cup of tea, but regardless of what they've
> opposed and not opposed, my views should not count as lesser. It's a
> great way to sweep the problem under the rug by yelling "Hey look,
> he's a member of the ACB! Lets burn crosses because they opposed this
> act." That's not really the point and everything you've said shows
> you've missed that. I'm more than happy to have meaningful discussions
> with anyone and honestly I don't really care which organization
> someone is from as long as said discussions can take place. But when
> my views are attacked or I am required to note that I'm from ACB so I
> can get branded with the "They opposed this act," I think we have a
> problem.
> 
> The fact is, as much as you and Carlos want to deny the point, I
> applied for a summer job in a position which I was qualified for. The
> interview went great until we got on the subject of dogs, at which
> point I had to deal with many pointed questions about whether or not
> I'd be able to leave my dog in the room. Now, I'm no lawyer, but I
> think said pointed questions probably violates the ADA. Perhaps rather
> than discrediting my points because I'm with the ACB attention should
> be drawn back to this point.
>> On 9/11/2015 2:22 PM, Derek Manners via nabs-l wrote:
>> I don't want to belabor the point but I want to make sure Tyler,
>> Minh, and others understand what I'm saying.
>> 
>> There's a difference between tone and substance. Tone wise, Tyler,
>> you have a propensity for saying things in a disagreeable way that
>> is unhelpful. For example: "I find it rather amusing",
>> "discriminate" (spelling corrected) so hard, "first to scream", and
>> "drink the Cool-Aid" are all fairly inflammatorily tinged words and
>> phrases.
>> 
>> The reason I say you should disclose your affiliation is because
>> you mislead folks when you say stuff like, "We're the first to ask
>> for equal access..."  I don't care that you are a member of ACB. I
>> just think your comments shouldn't be read as someone who typically
>> agrees with NFB philosophy giving advice to other NFB members, it
>> should be read as someone who belongs to an organization that
>> apposes the TEACH Act comprise, Maryland's online Accessible voting
>> initiative, etc.
>> 
>> As to the actual substantive disagreement part of your email, I
>> don't think it's discrimination to ask you to practice what we
>> preach in a very controlled environment meant to foster learning
>> even though we'd never ask you to do that in any other setting.
>> There are plenty of guide dog users in our organization. One of my
>> best friends in our movement is assistant to President Riccabono
>> and she brings her dog to work everyday at the national office.
>> 
>> Finally, I don't have any issue with Tyler or anyone else on the
>> ACB board. I consider Sara Whiles a good friend (she is also on the
>> ACB board) and I know our student president in Massachusetts is
>> close with the MA ACB student president etc. I was friends with
>> Kate when she was ACB treasurer. I've also privately messaged Tyler
>> and expressed interest in getting to know him and you (Minh) better
>> since we all live in the same area and you guys are roommates.
>> 
>> As someone with an economics background, I encourage open
>> discussion of all training centers; the good, the bad, and the
>> ugly. People should be able to make an informed decision. I just
>> think we should do it civilly and let people know what are biases
>> are and not misrepresent ourselves as something we are not.
>> 
>> Best regards Derek Manners
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:49 PM, minh ha via nabs-l
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that 
>>> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without
>>> being branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively
>>> working against the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions,
>>> and other people have expressed displeasure at how they have been
>>> treated by the NFB training centers, and yet, only Tyler have
>>> been targeted by you and Katherine on list for his messages. This
>>> has been a recurring problem from what I have seen, and if I
>>> didn't know any better, I would say you and Katherine have a
>>> personal issue with Tyler since he is on ACBS's board. And quite
>>> frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't even have any
>>> relevance in this conversation when it comes to being 
>>> discriminated by the NFB.
>>> 
>>> Minh
>>> 
>>>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote: Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>>> 
>>>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative
>>>> opinions. However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating
>>>> what she meant when she expressed disapproval of Tyler's
>>>> message. Her problem with it, I assume, is the tone. You can
>>>> disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately Tyler has
>>>> shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>>>> during her campaign announcement which he later apologized
>>>> for.
>>>> 
>>>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when
>>>> it comes to guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar
>>>> philosophy as to why my cousin taught me how to drive a car
>>>> even though I can't legally drive one. 1. There may come a time
>>>> when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog 
>>>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being
>>>> versed in both is important if you are a dog user. Second,
>>>> there are lessons that came travel teach you about mobility
>>>> with regard to structured discovery that are important when
>>>> using a cane or a dog.
>>>> 
>>>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives
>>>> advanced instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my
>>>> friends Kate Webster and Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting
>>>> training on coding as a blind person. Talking to a trainer
>>>> informally who may or may not know what they are talking about
>>>> is quite different than working out a formal plan through voc 
>>>> rehab and the center.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you
>>>> are talking about your philosophical views about the NFB that
>>>> you are on the ACB student board and that ACB routinely
>>>> publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy. Your opinions are
>>>> not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB philosophy
>>>> who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who,
>>>> in certain instances, works against our legislative efforts,
>>>> our philosophical message, and actively tries to influence
>>>> state agencies that we are wrong and your organization is
>>>> right.
>>>> 
>>>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's
>>>> healthy to debate philosophical differences. But you should do
>>>> it in an agreeable tone and you should fully disclose your
>>>> elected position.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards Derek Manners
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what
>>>>> kind of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That
>>>>> is the wonderful thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't
>>>>>> attend a training center because I can't use him. I
>>>>>> understand not being able to use them for travel classes,
>>>>>> that makes sense, but not being able to use him for 
>>>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by
>>>>>> the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I was
>>>>>> working the booth as a trainer at the convention for an
>>>>>> assistive technology company.  A center instructor came up
>>>>>> wanting to look at some of the products we had on display.
>>>>>> I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them
>>>>>> a question. Because I have a graduate certificate in
>>>>>> assistive technology, as well as a graduate certificate in
>>>>>> technical support, I wanted to know if my technology
>>>>>> classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The 
>>>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate
>>>>>> certificate or not, you will go through the same class as
>>>>>> everyone else, starting with keyboarding." My colleague,
>>>>>> who was sitting beside me, and I were shocked at this
>>>>>> person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an
>>>>>> assistive technology company, and I have to start with
>>>>>> keyboarding? I also have a bachelors degree in education…
>>>>>> The first thing that you learned about teaching is that
>>>>>> everybody learns differently, and everybody is on different
>>>>>> levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>>>> Unfortunately, this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB
>>>>>> centers. Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I
>>>>>> look forward to reading your blog, and hope that you have A
>>>>>> wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via
>>>>>>> nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
>> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
>> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
>> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
>> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
>> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
>> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
>> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l
>>>>>>>>> wrote: Hey all, If you’d like to read about my
>>>>>>>>> experiences at LCB, here is a link to my blog.
>>>>>>>>> http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com 
>>>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be
>>>>>>>>> detailing my experiences in class, as well as those
>>>>>>>>> with my guide dog, Dallas, especially given the
>>>>>>>>> center’s policies about guide dogs. I apologize if
>>>>>>>>> this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write
>>>>>>>>> me off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
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>>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> - -- 
>>> Minh Ha Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16 
>>> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the
>>> dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it
>>> was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for
>>> they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them
>>> possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l: 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>> 
>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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> - -- 
> Take care,
> Ty
> twitter: @sorressean
> web:http://tysdomain.com
> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v2
> 
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> 
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From clb5590 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 20:49:18 2015
From: clb5590 at gmail.com (Cindy Bennett)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 13:49:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Aleeha's Blog and Response to the Thread
Message-ID: <CACUFQdwj1gkDeBut6HOd2-_JbccgDKe3ubYYCVWyDZDHb+0J4g@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Aleeha,

I just want to thank you for sharing your experiences in a blog. I
used to journal and stopped after one training center entry. Part of
it was just a change in my life; I no longer felt the need to journal,
and another part was that I got so busy. That said, I am so happy that
you will be chronicling your experiences for others to read. I am sure
they will be an asset for other people who want to learn about our
training centers and a helpful glimpse for people considering
training.

I also commend you for choosing to go to training. I am not saying
this only since I have benefited from one of our training centers, but
I am saying it because I have known you personally for a few years and
about some of the struggles you have encountered in school. Some of
these issues are precisely why we have written the SMART act and
completely out of your control, but I am so excited that you view
training as a way to help you to better traverse education and work
and as an opportunity to fill a toolbox with a variety of strategies
that you will doubtless exercise every day. I think it is incredibly
difficult to interrupt school; I was so obsessed with graduating and
continuing my life in a sought-out trajectory that I waited until I
was finished with undergrad before I got training. Yes, I was a
successful student, but I could have been so much more independent and
less anxious if I had gotten over my life plan and gone during school.
So good for you for recognizing that now was the best time even though
it means you are taking a break in the middle of your academic career.

In my personal experience at BLIND, Inc., my instructors and I spent a
few classes getting to know each other in that I learned how they
would help me as an instructor, and they learned about my strong and
weak points regarding their class. For example, it was pretty clear
when I explored the wood shop that I knew nothing and was a little
anxious to touch everything as I more confidently explored the kitchen
in home management. Similarly, my instructor in communications learned
pretty quickly by watching me use my phone and computer to communicate
with my friends and family that I did not need pointed keyboarding
lessons. But when my talk about being a proficient braille reader
since kindergarten did not match the appropriate reading speed, he
helped me to understand that I did need to work on my braille, a skill
I believed I would practice the least during training. My classes were
very individualized. As I witnessed students start after me, I began
to see patterns in how the teachers work; there is a foundational
curriculum. However, my instructors were very good at recognizing when
I was proficient with a skill, and they were also good at kindly
showing me, mostly through my own less than satisfactory work, that I
could improve upon a skill at which I had previously been made to
believe I was an expert. I found this model to be empowering as I was
treated like an adult; there was no patronizing by instructors, and I
had experienced this at other training centers. I got out of training
what I put in to it. Like I said, there is a foundational curriculum
and philosophy, and they guide the minimal rules set in place to
foster the most successful environment. But just as at the end of the
semester, certain things dawn on you like, “Oh, that is why the
professor did not explain this earlier in the semester; I would not
have understood it,” as I continued through training, I began to
understand that every rule and every strategy that the teachers
employed had a purpose even though as the student I did not always
immediately recognize this valuable purpose. This model helped me to
rethink some of the expectations that I had accepted as satisfactory
but which were actually holding me back from reaching my full
potential.

It has already been said, but a unique feature of the NFB training
centers is that they are immersive programs. You use braille to read
recipes and to identify ingredients in home management. You use your
travel skills to pick up wood for shop class or groceries for your
apartment and for your small and large meals. You may practice your
slate and stylus skills by brailling recipes, and may use the computer
to compile a recipe book. So in a sense, every other class is an
extension of travel class which may contribute to the policy about
using a cane during all classes. I think it would be beneficial for
people who have questions about these policies to ask the directors of
the centers themselves and to read their websites if they haven’t
already.

I will not comment on anyone’s specific experiences and certainly do
not condone workplace discrimination. But I will reflect on my own job
search. I have applied for literally hundreds of jobs for which I
believed myself even overqualified. I have interviewed for dozens and
have had suspicions for why I did not get hired at some. It sucks, a
lot; there is no way around it. But I have to surmise that as I work
with NFB to increase the opportunities for blind people, I would not
want to work in an environment where the employer does not believe in
me or where values that are important to me are not shared by the
workplace.

In conclusion, I thank Aleeha for sharing her blog. I do think it is
appropriate to share helpful resources on these lists. I also think
that discussion about the philosophies of the training centers may be
better placed on their own thread so people can reply to Aleeha with
comments and questions specifically about the original message she
sent without concern that she will miss them.

Cindy


-- 
Cindy Bennett
1st Year Ph.D. Student, University of Washington
Human Centered Design and Engineering

Treasurer of the National Federation of the Blind of Washington
an Affiliate of the National Federation of the Blind

clb5590 at gmail.com


From gmoore3rd at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 21:17:11 2015
From: gmoore3rd at gmail.com (Glenn III)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 16:17:11 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IL Association of Blind Students Meeting Sunday, 7 central,
 641-715-3273 code 4227
Message-ID: <CAAxfxEAtr0N+4HgLg9-w1jXRsoTxN4b8LSnGCKLEdcXs8sMZrQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi NABSters,
For any students in IL
or states nearby,
or anyone interested, actually
The IL Association of Blind Students
is holding our monthly meeting this
Sunday, September 12, 7pm central time
via teleconference:
641-715-3273 and code 4227 (IABS).
This months meeting is important since we will be discussing student
activities at the upcoming IL State convention (such as Friday night "IABS
Idol"). The IL convention, by the way, is October 30, 31 and Nov 1, and
anyone can get info and register for convention and Idol, and even pay
student or At-Large membership dues at
http://nfbofillinois.org/?page_id=685

Talk to you all soon.

-Glenn Moore III
State Secretary,
National Federation of the Blind of Illinois
(find our calendar at nfbofillinois.org/?page_id=158)
nfb.org <http://www.nfb.org>   "Live the Life You Want"

From blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 21:41:27 2015
From: blindcowgirl1993 at gmail.com (Aleeha Dudley)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 16:41:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <CAAdv8fpk_WGxcDBVkKqUykrwS8qdrkeG+ZNaDd0v4niWE1yvgQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdv8fpk_WGxcDBVkKqUykrwS8qdrkeG+ZNaDd0v4niWE1yvgQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7A83D4D2-D007-4043-99D9-D7D4DB7750E6@gmail.com>

While I do believe that leaving the dog alone may be wrong, do not many employed blind people with dogs not work them for eight hours a day? If you get out and work in the evenings, practice obedience, do plenty of bonding and play exercises while you are at your apartment, I see no reason that the bond should we can as long as your dog understands that you will come back.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Danielle Sykora via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Not allowing students to use guide dogs in travel classes is
> understandable since it would significantly alter the skills the
> student is being taught. I do think that incorporating the dog into
> travel classes once the student becomes proficient in structured
> discovery methods would be beneficial to the student. This would give
> her the opportunity to start applying the skills she has learned while
> traveling with a cane to a dog while still having the opportunity to
> receive feedback and ask questions to a qualified instructor.
> Orientation skills are important regardless of the type of mobility
> aid, but the feedback one gets from the environment differs with a
> cane when compared to a dog.
> 
> That being said, I see the NFB center policy that forbids students
> from being allowed to work their dogs during other (non-travel
> related) classes to be blatantly discriminatory. There is no reason
> why a student should not bring her dog to say Braille instruction.
> These students are adults who need to find a balance between working
> their dogs and practicing cane travel. How do centers handle
> non-guiding service dogs? More complicated, what are their policies
> regarding guides that are cross trained for other tasks?
> 
> I truly think some non-dog users do not fully understand how guide
> dogs work. You can not expect leaving a dog for a near constant eight
> hours a day, five days a week will not have negative consequences from
> damaging the bond to stress and boredom related behaviors to more
> frequent mistakes due to lack of work. I know the majority of NFB
> members are respectful of others mobility choices, but an anti-dog
> ideology still lingers no matter how much people deny it. Perhaps it
> is due to lack of education. It seems as if people with anti-views
> often have a distorted idea of how a guide dog partner ship works in
> my experience. I honestly don't know.
> 
> I find it troubling that negative experiences and criticism of NFB
> sponsored programs is so discouraged on these lists. I'm not trying to
> be derogatory or critical. I want to make situations better, and you
> can not do that if you only focus on the positives.
> 
> Danielle
> 
> 
>> On 9/11/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
>> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
>> branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
>> the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
>> have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
>> training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
>> Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
>> from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
>> you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
>> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
>> even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
>> discriminated by the NFB.
>> 
>> Minh
>> 
>>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>> 
>>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
>>> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when
>>> she
>>> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume,
>>> is
>>> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
>>> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>>> during
>>> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>>> 
>>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes
>>> to
>>> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my
>>> cousin
>>> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1.
>>> There
>>> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog
>>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in
>>> both
>>> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
>>> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that
>>> are
>>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>>> 
>>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
>>> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster
>>> and
>>> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind
>>> person.
>>> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
>>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through
>>> voc
>>> rehab and the center.
>>> 
>>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking
>>> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB
>>> student
>>> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
>>> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
>>> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in
>>> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our
>>> philosophical
>>> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong
>>> and your organization is right.
>>> 
>>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to
>>> debate
>>> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and
>>> you
>>> should fully disclose your elected position.
>>> 
>>> Best regards
>>> Derek Manners
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>>>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>>>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training
>>>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them
>>>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for
>>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance
>>>>> of
>>>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer
>>>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology,
>>>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know
>>>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate
>>>>> or
>>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with
>>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were
>>>>> shocked
>>>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive
>>>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a
>>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>> - --
>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v2
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>>>>>> =2AqU
>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Minh Ha
>> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
>> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>> 
>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 22:44:08 2015
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 15:44:08 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide dogs and training centers
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBjt9sy7A5x_kJFH3ZKNqF4p1ezDXnAnWtRUyucViHHZQ@mail.gmail.com>

Dear all:
As the currently appointed list moderator and a former president of
NABS, I have a few concerns about how this discussion has transpired.
First, I believe it is absolutely not our place to shut down anybody's
opinion or shared experiences even those that happen to be critical of
NFB or its training centers. I am a proud LCB grad myself, and I
understand our tendency to be defensive and protective of the centers,
but if we want to support informed choice for our members, then we
need to allow our members to read about both good and bad experiences
with the centers. It is also important for the fallible human beings
who run our centers to receive honest feedback about how the centers
can be improved. So I am concerned about the implication that Tyler's
critical comments were "insignificant". Second, I don't think it is
necessary for folks to disclose their organizational affiliation when
sharing opinions. We are mainly made up of young people and some of us
are agnosticabout organization or exploring to decide which
organization we want to join. Tyler stated his opinion as his own not
that of the ACB. Third, I do think that some of Tyler's language could
have been toned down a bit particularly the Kool-Aid reference. A good
rule of thumb to share a negative opinion respectfully is to use I
statements, such as "I felt angry and disappointed when the center
turned me down for a summer position". Also, focusing on facts rather
than rhetoric in your comments will make them less emotionally
devisive and people will be more likely to listen objectively rather
than reacting to them.
I do want to address Hope's comment about the centers teaching
everyone the same curriculum. This was not my experience at LCB. I
came in with advanced Braille and tech skills and was allowed to skip
to advanced concepts after a brief assessment to prove that I knew the
basics. I don't know which center's representative you talked with,
but I feel that this person's response to you wasn't very
professional. I might suggest contacting the director of that center
to get a better idea of how the curriculum would be tailored to your
needs. It is also not uncommon for individuals to spend only a few
months at a center and they can benefit a lot even if they don't
officially graduate.
As a non-dog user, I can't comment extensively on the guide dog
policies, but I empathize with both sides of the argument. I could
also see how they might want the summer program instructors to use
canes in order to model those skills. But it seems like this
expectation could have been better conveyed before or during the
interview.

Best,
Arielle Silverman, List Moderator


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Sep 11 23:42:35 2015
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 18:42:35 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <7A83D4D2-D007-4043-99D9-D7D4DB7750E6@gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdv8fpk_WGxcDBVkKqUykrwS8qdrkeG+ZNaDd0v4niWE1yvgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7A83D4D2-D007-4043-99D9-D7D4DB7750E6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DLDayu2u_RgmsiSqM3st_G7zUaAfHQuwwuZDVWSboAMsQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

We had this same discussion over on the NAGDU list with the same... results.  :)

It is evident from the reactions of both members of the Nabs and Nagdu
lists that there is a lot to say on the topic of NFB and guide dogs as
well as the training center policies related to guide dogs.  I can
tell you that the members of Nagdu seem to be divided in their
opinions of the training centers' guide dog policies, and in my own
humble opinion, I think the topics are something we must address head
on, think critically about, and perhaps work towards change.

I am a guide dog user.  Off and on over the years I have considered
going to a training center to gain better cooking, home management,
and travel skills.  Yes, I said travel skills.  I got a dog at age 17
and did not really have the cane skills that I should have at the
time.  I believe I could benefit from the full-immersion model of
traning.  The reason I have not pursued this idea is that I would like
to encorporate my guide dog into training.  I have made the choice to
be a guide dog user--this means that the majority of my travel time, I
use a guide dog as my tool of choice.

Derek, you state that the centers are immersion programs, immersing
the client in blindness training.  My creative mind actually finds
that to be more of a reason to allow the guide dogs to be encorporated
into the training experience.  I have had several friends at training
centers.  As I understand it, the students are encouraged to learn and
work with a variety of tools: canes, slates, Braille writers,
screenreaders, note takers, etc.  And I doubt I know the half of it...
:)

I also understand that the students in their tech classes get to learn
what will be the most helpful to them in their lives after they have
mastered the basics.  So, why not this method for the guide dog?  Is
the dog not a valuable tool that some blind people choose?  Perhaps
the dog is discounted because of its working eyes.  This logic,
however, does not stand up to reality.  If I did not have good
orientation skills, I could not direct my dog, figure out what his
signals are telling me at different times, or redirect him if he tries
to get us off course.  (It happens...)

The cane is the first tool.  We dog users need superior cane skills so
that we can pick up that white stick when our dogs fall ill or must be
left behind for whatever reason.  And I'm talking superior skills...
Because if we don't use it everyday, we need to readjust quickly to
the differences in balance of the body with a cane in hand as well as
our reactions to tactile feedback.

So I am not knocking the importance the centers place on cane skills,
but I do believe it would be important for students with guide dogs to
be able to work with their dogs in their classes as well as in travel
a certain amount.  The amount would depend on the student, their
goals, and perhaps their mastry of certain skills with the cane.

On 9/11/15, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> While I do believe that leaving the dog alone may be wrong, do not many
> employed blind people with dogs not work them for eight hours a day? If you
> get out and work in the evenings, practice obedience, do plenty of bonding
> and play exercises while you are at your apartment, I see no reason that the
> bond should we can as long as your dog understands that you will come back.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Danielle Sykora via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Not allowing students to use guide dogs in travel classes is
>> understandable since it would significantly alter the skills the
>> student is being taught. I do think that incorporating the dog into
>> travel classes once the student becomes proficient in structured
>> discovery methods would be beneficial to the student. This would give
>> her the opportunity to start applying the skills she has learned while
>> traveling with a cane to a dog while still having the opportunity to
>> receive feedback and ask questions to a qualified instructor.
>> Orientation skills are important regardless of the type of mobility
>> aid, but the feedback one gets from the environment differs with a
>> cane when compared to a dog.
>>
>> That being said, I see the NFB center policy that forbids students
>> from being allowed to work their dogs during other (non-travel
>> related) classes to be blatantly discriminatory. There is no reason
>> why a student should not bring her dog to say Braille instruction.
>> These students are adults who need to find a balance between working
>> their dogs and practicing cane travel. How do centers handle
>> non-guiding service dogs? More complicated, what are their policies
>> regarding guides that are cross trained for other tasks?
>>
>> I truly think some non-dog users do not fully understand how guide
>> dogs work. You can not expect leaving a dog for a near constant eight
>> hours a day, five days a week will not have negative consequences from
>> damaging the bond to stress and boredom related behaviors to more
>> frequent mistakes due to lack of work. I know the majority of NFB
>> members are respectful of others mobility choices, but an anti-dog
>> ideology still lingers no matter how much people deny it. Perhaps it
>> is due to lack of education. It seems as if people with anti-views
>> often have a distorted idea of how a guide dog partner ship works in
>> my experience. I honestly don't know.
>>
>> I find it troubling that negative experiences and criticism of NFB
>> sponsored programs is so discouraged on these lists. I'm not trying to
>> be derogatory or critical. I want to make situations better, and you
>> can not do that if you only focus on the positives.
>>
>> Danielle
>>
>>
>>> On 9/11/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
>>> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
>>> branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
>>> the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
>>> have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
>>> training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
>>> Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
>>> from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
>>> you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
>>> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
>>> even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
>>> discriminated by the NFB.
>>>
>>> Minh
>>>
>>>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>>>
>>>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
>>>> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when
>>>> she
>>>> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume,
>>>> is
>>>> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
>>>> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>>>> during
>>>> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>>>>
>>>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes
>>>> to
>>>> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my
>>>> cousin
>>>> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1.
>>>> There
>>>> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide
>>>> dog
>>>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in
>>>> both
>>>> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
>>>> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that
>>>> are
>>>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>>>>
>>>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
>>>> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster
>>>> and
>>>> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind
>>>> person.
>>>> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
>>>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through
>>>> voc
>>>> rehab and the center.
>>>>
>>>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are
>>>> talking
>>>> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB
>>>> student
>>>> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
>>>> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
>>>> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who,
>>>> in
>>>> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our
>>>> philosophical
>>>> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are
>>>> wrong
>>>> and your organization is right.
>>>>
>>>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to
>>>> debate
>>>> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and
>>>> you
>>>> should fully disclose your elected position.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards
>>>> Derek Manners
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>>>>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>>>>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a
>>>>>> training
>>>>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a
>>>>>> trainer
>>>>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>>>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>>>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive
>>>>>> technology,
>>>>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to
>>>>>> know
>>>>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were
>>>>>> shocked
>>>>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an
>>>>>> assistive
>>>>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>>>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>>>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>>>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about
>>>>>>> what
>>>>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>>>>>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>>> - --
>>>>>>> Take care,
>>>>>>> Ty
>>>>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
>>>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>>> Version: GnuPG v2
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJV8skeAAoJEAdP60+BYxejBUUH/iBOX6rek4bJl8ou3T3lu/ug
>>>>>>> uJwzBWCtKahTzxq/KxKvVJPgToDXFtTuagwWS3t+F1PZW9GSkoil6uEAt0OMT6n6
>>>>>>> nauHkSDFfrRdTNEjpMfPaRo1NbLJrbmBCO1Eaf5MkE3a5lIg5Ei63GL+h2N6biCg
>>>>>>> q0tdWxOwdQQSUnTUuGugsLQCRuVPab1lh+reRTydreuhdWpvpBe4UbTnIWFViFK+
>>>>>>> TMGMQoKvgkOYL3VfmzQ/tq2ufZeBRtIFonaELFKH7vV3mBLuYa5PnPFqWj+gWwFY
>>>>>>> j8fWvm1toEYqTudZmJzI4WOU0RPFYFMG4FwPw+fZ/K36lUgFbUFlQt4wAo/ocAI=
>>>>>>> =2AqU
>>>>>>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nabs-l:
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Minh Ha
>>> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
>>> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>>>
>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
>>> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
>>> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
>>> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kaybaycar%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Julie McGinnity
National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
"For we walk by faith, not by sight"
2 Cor. 7


From tattenberg at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 00:22:53 2015
From: tattenberg at gmail.com (Trevor Attenberg)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 17:22:53 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs, Training Centers, and NFB
Message-ID: <006f01d0edba$54f3d3f0$fedb7bd0$@gmail.com>

Hi all a all y'all,

I must admit, computer training was probably the least positive of my class
experiences at LCB way back in 2003. I came in an excellent typist, and
quite capable with creating documents and navigating Windows with JAWS-this
was before Voiceover mind you; but they had me spend weeks proving that I
could do these things by way of essays I had to type up and get proofread
within the constraints of an hour long class with multiple students. I
didn't have my own computer at the time and wasn't allowed to proceed to
other computer activities on their machines until I completed the prescribed
tasks. There wasn't much time left in my training stint to cover the stuff
that would prove really important in my future. This was not so much how it
worked in Braille and travel, where I was able to leap ahead to activities
based on my level of skill.  

That said, when I taught tech at BLIND, Inc. this summer, I was able to
customize my lessons according to what the students wanted. As I was just a
summer instructor, I don't know how exactly teaching varies in this regard
from center to center. Regarding the situation for dogs, I am not quite an
expert on what is demanded; but I know if you aren't teaching travel, you're
not going to be very mobile during the day, unless there are field trips.
There's not much use for a cane or pup in the kitchen, computer lab, etc. I
know at BLIND, Inc. students and staff with dogs were able to take their
dogs out during class breaks, when we are pretty much free to do what we
want. I don't know if they want everyone to be using canes exclusively for
simple things like going to the bathroom and what not, or on day trips. This
might vary from place to place. Judging from my experience at BLIND, Inc.
and Colorado, staff people are certainly permitted to use their dogs outside
of regular classes. If a staff person isn't allowed to use a dog during
classes like braille and tech, I can't exactly explain it, other than that
the students need to use canes, and perhaps they simply want staff to
conform to what the students are doing. At LCB, and probably for the most
part at the other centers, a student's travel between classrooms, on field
trips, etc. is all considered an aspect of mobility training, and thus canes
are required. I can't answer for the centers as to the exact reason why
canes are so favored; but my guess is that it has to do with the training
and problem solving opportunities a cane offers and a dog does not. That is
not to put down the utility of dogs as a travel aid. The policies are
certainly not some institutionalized condescension towards dogs and their
people. If that was the case, then there wouldn't be so many staff at these
centers that use dogs. I believe Pam Allen (head of LCB) did use a dog for a
while. In Colorado in 2000, almost all of my instructors had a dog,
including Melissa (now Riccobono).

                As per the NFB, there's really no litmus test for
participating in the organization. They think blindness shouldn't be a
factor that will stop you in pursuing what you want in life, but you need
not be a human drone, or some marathon-running, astrophysicist. I certainly
don't agree with everything that is decided upon in resolutions, elections,
and moves decided upon by the board members and whoever influences them.
Like other organizations, it is what the members make of it, and from my
experience, such people run the gamut from stooges that will make you gag to
stars that'll make you feel inadequate. In my experiences, like at the
conventions, I'll go to one event, where I detect nothing but a mob of dumb,
snobby assholes (like myself), and I'll go to another event where I'll
encounter some of the greatest, nicest, most inspiring people I've ever met
(like myself). The latter situation together with the benefits I did get
from the LCB are probably the biggest reasons why I'm still involved. The
federation unfortunately currently draws in more people from some regions of
the country than others, and that can mean lots of geographical and
cultural-based baggage-you get cliques and pear pressure, but there it is.
I've encountered the same thing in other big organizations. 

I greatly appreciate your attention!

Trevor          

P.S. Is there any way I can respond directly to a string of emails when I am
getting the messages in digest form?

PPS, In the wise words of one Bill Clinton, "can't we all just get along?"
Very sad that there is such a political schism in the blind world.


From codyjbair at yahoo.com  Sat Sep 12 03:29:09 2015
From: codyjbair at yahoo.com (Cody Bair)
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2015 20:29:09 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Don't miss out on the Colorado Associatiom of Blind
	Students NFL survivor pool
Message-ID: <6A4ADD27-2F43-4D33-B681-390E1C49ACAC@yahoo.com>

Greetings,
> The Colorado Association of Blind Students is hosting an NFL survivor pool fund raiser.
> In brief, the way that it works is you pick one NFL team to win their game per week. If the team you select wins, you move on. If the team you select loses, you get a strike. Two strikes and your out.
> To participate in the pool, their is a one-time $25 entry fee. Fifty percent of the proceeds will go to the Colorado Association of Blind Students, 40% of the proceeds will go to the winner and 10% will go to the individual who finishes in 2nd place.
> The attached document contains a more-indepth description as well as the rules, methods for making payment and payment deadlines. If you plan to participate please read said document in its entirety so their aren’t any surprises.
> If you wish to participate please send an email to codyjbair at yahoo.com stating all of the following:
> that you wish to participate in our NFL Survivor pool
> which payment method you intend to use(see attached document)
> your week 1 pick
> 
> I will accept entries until Saturday September 12, at 9:00 P.M. mountain time. 
> Although the payment deadline is October 1, we encourage you to make payment as soon as possible.
> 
> If you have further questions please do not hesitate to reach out to me.
> 
> Thanks,
> Cody Bair
> Vice President
> Colorado Association of Blind Students
> (970)673-6998
> codyjbair at yahoo.com
> 
> 

From kestomberg at coe.edu  Sat Sep 12 05:04:42 2015
From: kestomberg at coe.edu (STOMBERG, KENNEDY)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 00:04:42 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>

Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my class,
where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based on
other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that is
out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
You'll get through it!

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
> company.
>
> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
> electronically through the university's library database, which of
> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>
> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
> services office.
>
> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>
> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>
> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
> manner so I can do my work.
>
> --
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
> Division 2015-2016
>
> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>

From tyler at tysdomain.com  Sat Sep 12 06:27:06 2015
From: tyler at tysdomain.com (Littlefield, Tyler)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 02:27:06 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB
In-Reply-To: <7A83D4D2-D007-4043-99D9-D7D4DB7750E6@gmail.com>
References: <9323F5D6-BE74-4CA5-A256-D63525197A0C@gmail.com>
	<55F2C91E.1070903@tysdomain.com>
	<1564EBE1-498E-4CA3-A5A9-E2985F10EDA4@gmail.com>
	<AB176FBD-4487-4E18-B252-EF777EB38C94@att.net>
	<2A59202C-0A10-4698-B666-6E428FCC6B64@jd16.law.harvard.edu>
	<CAAJqG9joe6z=vjf=is4gvJrj1nQvRoY9ythO0RgviGn4bFM7iw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAAdv8fpk_WGxcDBVkKqUykrwS8qdrkeG+ZNaDd0v4niWE1yvgQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<7A83D4D2-D007-4043-99D9-D7D4DB7750E6@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <55F3C5BA.7050503@tysdomain.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

I did work 8-10+ hours a day in the office at times this summer. My
dog wasn't locked in a room while I was off, knowing that I would come
back. He was at my side constantly. I could take him out on my lunch
break and give him lots of ice. Yes, he still got play time. But that
doesn't mean that they should be left alone for extended periods of
time. Work and play time for a short period in the evening does not
account for the work they would do during the day.
On 9/11/2015 5:41 PM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
> While I do believe that leaving the dog alone may be wrong, do not
> many employed blind people with dogs not work them for eight hours
> a day? If you get out and work in the evenings, practice obedience,
> do plenty of bonding and play exercises while you are at your
> apartment, I see no reason that the bond should we can as long as
> your dog understands that you will come back.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 1:33 PM, Danielle Sykora via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Not allowing students to use guide dogs in travel classes is 
>> understandable since it would significantly alter the skills the 
>> student is being taught. I do think that incorporating the dog
>> into travel classes once the student becomes proficient in
>> structured discovery methods would be beneficial to the student.
>> This would give her the opportunity to start applying the skills
>> she has learned while traveling with a cane to a dog while still
>> having the opportunity to receive feedback and ask questions to a
>> qualified instructor. Orientation skills are important regardless
>> of the type of mobility aid, but the feedback one gets from the
>> environment differs with a cane when compared to a dog.
>> 
>> That being said, I see the NFB center policy that forbids
>> students from being allowed to work their dogs during other
>> (non-travel related) classes to be blatantly discriminatory.
>> There is no reason why a student should not bring her dog to say
>> Braille instruction. These students are adults who need to find a
>> balance between working their dogs and practicing cane travel.
>> How do centers handle non-guiding service dogs? More complicated,
>> what are their policies regarding guides that are cross trained
>> for other tasks?
>> 
>> I truly think some non-dog users do not fully understand how
>> guide dogs work. You can not expect leaving a dog for a near
>> constant eight hours a day, five days a week will not have
>> negative consequences from damaging the bond to stress and
>> boredom related behaviors to more frequent mistakes due to lack
>> of work. I know the majority of NFB members are respectful of
>> others mobility choices, but an anti-dog ideology still lingers
>> no matter how much people deny it. Perhaps it is due to lack of
>> education. It seems as if people with anti-views often have a
>> distorted idea of how a guide dog partner ship works in my
>> experience. I honestly don't know.
>> 
>> I find it troubling that negative experiences and criticism of
>> NFB sponsored programs is so discouraged on these lists. I'm not
>> trying to be derogatory or critical. I want to make situations
>> better, and you can not do that if you only focus on the
>> positives.
>> 
>> Danielle
>> 
>> 
>>> On 9/11/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: 
>>> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed
>>> that members of this list cannot express negative opinions
>>> without being branded as disagreeable and as someone who is
>>> actively working against the NFB. Everybody is entitled to
>>> their opinions, and other people have expressed displeasure at
>>> how they have been treated by the NFB training centers, and
>>> yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and Katherine on list
>>> for his messages. This has been a recurring problem from what I
>>> have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say you and
>>> Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on 
>>> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation
>>> doesn't even have any relevance in this conversation when it
>>> comes to being discriminated by the NFB.
>>> 
>>> Minh
>>> 
>>>> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote: Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>>> 
>>>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down
>>>> negative opinions. However, I think Kate did a poor job of
>>>> articulating what she meant when she expressed disapproval of
>>>> Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume, is the tone.
>>>> You can disagree without being disagreeable and
>>>> unfortunately Tyler has shown a propensity to be
>>>> disagreeable, specifically to Kate during her campaign
>>>> announcement which he later apologized for.
>>>> 
>>>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy
>>>> when it comes to guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar
>>>> philosophy as to why my cousin taught me how to drive a car
>>>> even though I can't legally drive one. 1. There may come a
>>>> time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide
>>>> dog user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and
>>>> being versed in both is important if you are a dog user.
>>>> Second, there are lessons that came travel teach you about
>>>> mobility with regard to structured discovery that are 
>>>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>>>> 
>>>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives
>>>> advanced instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my
>>>> friends Kate Webster and Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be
>>>> getting training on coding as a blind person. Talking to a
>>>> trainer informally who may or may not know what they are 
>>>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal
>>>> plan through voc rehab and the center.
>>>> 
>>>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when
>>>> you are talking about your philosophical views about the NFB
>>>> that you are on the ACB student board and that ACB routinely
>>>> publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy. Your opinions are
>>>> not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB philosophy
>>>> who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who,
>>>> in certain instances, works against our legislative efforts,
>>>> our philosophical message, and actively tries to influence
>>>> state agencies that we are wrong and your organization is
>>>> right.
>>>> 
>>>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's
>>>> healthy to debate philosophical differences. But you should
>>>> do it in an agreeable tone and you should fully disclose your
>>>> elected position.
>>>> 
>>>> Best regards Derek Manners
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l 
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what
>>>>> kind of rehabilitation center you would like to attend.
>>>>> That is the wonderful thing about America the freedom of
>>>>> choice.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l
>>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't
>>>>>> attend a training center because I can't use him. I
>>>>>> understand not being able to use them for travel classes,
>>>>>> that makes sense, but not being able to use him for 
>>>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by
>>>>>> the arrogance of some of the NFB center instructors. I
>>>>>> was working the booth as a trainer at the convention for
>>>>>> an assistive technology company.  A center instructor
>>>>>> came up wanting to look at some of the products we had
>>>>>> on display. I showed them the products, and then
>>>>>> proceeded to ask them a question. Because I have a
>>>>>> graduate certificate in assistive technology, as well as
>>>>>> a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to
>>>>>> know if my technology classes would be tailored to my
>>>>>> advanced needs. The instructor proceeded to laugh at me,
>>>>>> and told me "graduate certificate or not, you will go
>>>>>> through the same class as everyone else, starting with 
>>>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me,
>>>>>> and I were shocked at this person's attitude… keep in
>>>>>> mind, I am a trainer for an assistive technology company,
>>>>>> and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a 
>>>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you
>>>>>> learned about teaching is that everybody learns
>>>>>> differently, and everybody is on different levels…
>>>>>> Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all." Unfortunately, 
>>>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers. Sorry
>>>>>> for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to
>>>>>> reading your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful
>>>>>> time and learn a lot.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via
>>>>>>> nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name
> of your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers 
> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream 
> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it
> was mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions
> about what I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room)
> for classes, quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in
> the NFB, at least what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're
> the first to ask for equal access, yet equal access is not provided
> unless you have a straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l
>>>>>>>>> wrote: Hey all, If you’d like to read about my
>>>>>>>>> experiences at LCB, here is a link to my blog.
>>>>>>>>> http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com 
>>>>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be
>>>>>>>>> detailing my experiences in class, as well as those
>>>>>>>>> with my guide dog, Dallas, especially given the
>>>>>>>>> center’s policies about guide dogs. I apologize if
>>>>>>>>> this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write
>>>>>>>>> me off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley 
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get
>>>>>>>>> your account info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your
>>>>>>> account info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> 
_______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account
>>>> info for nabs-l: 
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/minh.ha927%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> 
- --
>>> Minh Ha Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16 
>>> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in
>>> the dusty recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that
>>> it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men,
>>> for they may act on their dreams with open eyes, to make them
>>> possible." T. E. Lawrence
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
>>> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>>> for nabs-l: 
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsykora29%40gmail.com
>>>
>>
>>
>>> 
_______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
>> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for nabs-l: 
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindcowgirl1993%40gmail.com
>
>> 
> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
> list nabs-l at nfbnet.org 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org To
> unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l: 
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/tyler%40tysdomain.com
>
> 
- -- 
Take care,
Ty
twitter: @sorressean
web:http://tysdomain.com
pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Sat Sep 12 06:25:00 2015
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 02:25:00 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFCDDD01BCE45AC8777728D15936C45@OwnerPC>

Hi,

While I have not had this issue, I had similar issues but it was access to a 
print book not an ebook. But either way, it was not accessible. If it was a 
database ebook, it would not be accessible either, just as in hard copy 
print. One semester or maybe two, my professor
put the textbook on course reserve at the library. This was to save the 
class money like in Kaiti's situation.

Obviously, this library plan did not work for me, and I said nothing as I 
knew nothing would be done; I knew the policy was I had to purchase a book 
and show proof of the book purchase to receive an accessible publisher copy.
It sounds like Kaiti's school is doing nothing either.


I feel the pain as well of inaccessible databases. As I've said before
I've encountered too many inaccessible databases especially those run via 
Ebsco. Don't get me started on databases with ebooks as I have found none 
that work; my schools have used adobe files from adobe digital editions 
probably, and
its not accessible.

Inaccessible databases have hindered my ability to research, and research is 
hard enough without throwing access problems.

My advice is to drop the class if you cannot get the materials soon. Better 
to drop rather than fail a class.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l
Sent: Saturday, September 12, 2015 1:04 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: STOMBERG, KENNEDY
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems

Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my class,
where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based on
other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that is
out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
You'll get through it!

On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
> company.
>
> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
> electronically through the university's library database, which of
> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>
> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
> services office.
>
> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>
> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>
> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
> manner so I can do my work.
>
> --
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
> Division 2015-2016
>
> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From cape.amanda at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 18:53:10 2015
From: cape.amanda at gmail.com (Amanda Cape)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 14:53:10 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Nfb news line and braille note apex
In-Reply-To: <67CCAB3C-F5EA-48BA-9C85-6C16C6F639FB@gmail.com>
References: <E2816116-DDF0-4011-8212-0514CAAB6E28@gmail.com>
	<5E4F9BA5-06B3-4FC5-BE80-EAF707A9BE75@gmail.com>
	<ED5087E0-44B1-4C56-9347-01B2F8AB9288@gmail.com>
	<auto-000035670508@mailfront1.g2host.com>
	<67CCAB3C-F5EA-48BA-9C85-6C16C6F639FB@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAL57mpFbXY_9TVHDsGbVbn79RZ2u0+Sy6SZXfJ1DQKcvpdKU4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi everyone,
I am now subscribed to NFBnewsline and am trying to set up my online
options and begin downloading publications. Which options do I use in
order to read/download publications on my braillenote apex? In your
pocket or web on demand?
Thanks,
Amanda

On 9/3/15, cape.amanda at gmail.com <cape.amanda at gmail.com> wrote:
> Oh okay so what makes them daisy files? Can I download them on my computer
> and then transfer them to a USB key?
>
> Amanda
>
>> On Sep 3, 2015, at 5:18 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> You can, the daisy files you get from NFB Newsline are text-based, not
>> audio, so you can read them with the Apex.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 01:26 PM 9/3/2015, you wrote:
>>> What if I want to read them in Braille? Amanda > On Sep 3, 2015, at 1:33
>>> PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: > > Apparently it
>>> has worked quite well for some, but I had some problems with corruption
>>> errors when I had my Apex and tried to use Newsline. As I remember it,
>>> you go to nfbnewslineonline.org and sign up to receive newspapers in
>>> DAISY format (I can't remember what Newsline calls this feature.) Every
>>> morning you will receive an email with the newspapers in your favorites
>>> list attached in a DAISY book. You can then save these files to your Apex
>>> and open them with the book reader feature. Hope this helps—sorry I can't
>>> give more details. > > Chriis Nusbaum > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep
>>> 3, 2015, at 1:15 PM, Amanda via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote: >> >>
>>> Hi everyone, >> Have any of you used nfb news line to download and read
>>> magazines or newspapers with the apex? >> How does this work? >> >>
>>> Amanda >> _______________________________________________ > > nabs-l
>>> mailing list >> nabs-l at nfbnet.org >>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cape.amanda%40gmail.com
>


From troubleclark at gmail.com  Sat Sep 12 20:51:32 2015
From: troubleclark at gmail.com (Nathan Clark)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 16:51:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs, Training Centers, and NFB
In-Reply-To: <006f01d0edba$54f3d3f0$fedb7bd0$@gmail.com>
References: <006f01d0edba$54f3d3f0$fedb7bd0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8104E27F-2CB7-4EBC-8CBD-CD1FA680F541@gmail.com>

I didn't think their computer training was all that good either. I spent more time doing basic things then the advanced skills. 


Nathan Clark

> On Sep 12, 2015, at 8:22 PM, Trevor Attenberg via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all a all y'all,
> 
> I must admit, computer training was probably the least positive of my class
> experiences at LCB way back in 2003. I came in an excellent typist, and
> quite capable with creating documents and navigating Windows with JAWS-this
> was before Voiceover mind you; but they had me spend weeks proving that I
> could do these things by way of essays I had to type up and get proofread
> within the constraints of an hour long class with multiple students. I
> didn't have my own computer at the time and wasn't allowed to proceed to
> other computer activities on their machines until I completed the prescribed
> tasks. There wasn't much time left in my training stint to cover the stuff
> that would prove really important in my future. This was not so much how it
> worked in Braille and travel, where I was able to leap ahead to activities
> based on my level of skill.  
> 
> That said, when I taught tech at BLIND, Inc. this summer, I was able to
> customize my lessons according to what the students wanted. As I was just a
> summer instructor, I don't know how exactly teaching varies in this regard
> from center to center. Regarding the situation for dogs, I am not quite an
> expert on what is demanded; but I know if you aren't teaching travel, you're
> not going to be very mobile during the day, unless there are field trips.
> There's not much use for a cane or pup in the kitchen, computer lab, etc. I
> know at BLIND, Inc. students and staff with dogs were able to take their
> dogs out during class breaks, when we are pretty much free to do what we
> want. I don't know if they want everyone to be using canes exclusively for
> simple things like going to the bathroom and what not, or on day trips. This
> might vary from place to place. Judging from my experience at BLIND, Inc.
> and Colorado, staff people are certainly permitted to use their dogs outside
> of regular classes. If a staff person isn't allowed to use a dog during
> classes like braille and tech, I can't exactly explain it, other than that
> the students need to use canes, and perhaps they simply want staff to
> conform to what the students are doing. At LCB, and probably for the most
> part at the other centers, a student's travel between classrooms, on field
> trips, etc. is all considered an aspect of mobility training, and thus canes
> are required. I can't answer for the centers as to the exact reason why
> canes are so favored; but my guess is that it has to do with the training
> and problem solving opportunities a cane offers and a dog does not. That is
> not to put down the utility of dogs as a travel aid. The policies are
> certainly not some institutionalized condescension towards dogs and their
> people. If that was the case, then there wouldn't be so many staff at these
> centers that use dogs. I believe Pam Allen (head of LCB) did use a dog for a
> while. In Colorado in 2000, almost all of my instructors had a dog,
> including Melissa (now Riccobono).
> 
>                As per the NFB, there's really no litmus test for
> participating in the organization. They think blindness shouldn't be a
> factor that will stop you in pursuing what you want in life, but you need
> not be a human drone, or some marathon-running, astrophysicist. I certainly
> don't agree with everything that is decided upon in resolutions, elections,
> and moves decided upon by the board members and whoever influences them.
> Like other organizations, it is what the members make of it, and from my
> experience, such people run the gamut from stooges that will make you gag to
> stars that'll make you feel inadequate. In my experiences, like at the
> conventions, I'll go to one event, where I detect nothing but a mob of dumb,
> snobby assholes (like myself), and I'll go to another event where I'll
> encounter some of the greatest, nicest, most inspiring people I've ever met
> (like myself). The latter situation together with the benefits I did get
> from the LCB are probably the biggest reasons why I'm still involved. The
> federation unfortunately currently draws in more people from some regions of
> the country than others, and that can mean lots of geographical and
> cultural-based baggage-you get cliques and pear pressure, but there it is.
> I've encountered the same thing in other big organizations. 
> 
> I greatly appreciate your attention!
> 
> Trevor          
> 
> P.S. Is there any way I can respond directly to a string of emails when I am
> getting the messages in digest form?
> 
> PPS, In the wise words of one Bill Clinton, "can't we all just get along?"
> Very sad that there is such a political schism in the blind world.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com


From bestca21 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 03:55:07 2015
From: bestca21 at gmail.com (Caitlin Best)
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 2015 20:55:07 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Guide Dogs, Training Centers, and NFB
In-Reply-To: <8104E27F-2CB7-4EBC-8CBD-CD1FA680F541@gmail.com>
References: <006f01d0edba$54f3d3f0$fedb7bd0$@gmail.com>
	<8104E27F-2CB7-4EBC-8CBD-CD1FA680F541@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <548C2460-8997-4BE5-8E08-6DE5367127E1@gmail.com>

During my training at LCB from May 2014 to May 2015... At the beginning of my training, I brought my guide dog with me, but soon found out that it was very difficult to maintain a healthy working relationship with the dog while also learning proper travel skills with my cane. I was not able to use her during class times, which was 8 to 5, but was able to take her out during breaks and lunch. 

Overall, I found the whole thing a little overwhelming and ended up leaving my guide at home after convention.. This was after and extensive talk with my dog's school. 

As for training itself, I learned a lot. Technology was not the easiest and like others have said you need to prove your competence. I put in a lot of after hours work into my assignments, since the technology instructors usually had computer lab tuesday and Thursday. My last project was a little rushed when it came to using Excel,, but I did get what I needed out of it. To me, it's really what you put into it. Not every program is going to be the most awesome over one another, but you make what you make of it. I think no matter which center is considered, they all have their strengths and weaknesses.

As for the NFB, I agree with the philosophy and the civil rights aspect, but like Trevor said I also don't agree with some of the resolutions passed. That will happen anywhere you go, though.. There are always wonderful mentors, and those who are lacking as well. I think the main thing to remember is everyone is looking for a common goal.

I hope this helps. 
Cheers,
Caitlin

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 12, 2015, at 13:51, Nathan Clark via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I didn't think their computer training was all that good either. I spent more time doing basic things then the advanced skills. 
> 
> 
> Nathan Clark
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2015, at 8:22 PM, Trevor Attenberg via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all a all y'all,
>> 
>> I must admit, computer training was probably the least positive of my class
>> experiences at LCB way back in 2003. I came in an excellent typist, and
>> quite capable with creating documents and navigating Windows with JAWS-this
>> was before Voiceover mind you; but they had me spend weeks proving that I
>> could do these things by way of essays I had to type up and get proofread
>> within the constraints of an hour long class with multiple students. I
>> didn't have my own computer at the time and wasn't allowed to proceed to
>> other computer activities on their machines until I completed the prescribed
>> tasks. There wasn't much time left in my training stint to cover the stuff
>> that would prove really important in my future. This was not so much how it
>> worked in Braille and travel, where I was able to leap ahead to activities
>> based on my level of skill.  
>> 
>> That said, when I taught tech at BLIND, Inc. this summer, I was able to
>> customize my lessons according to what the students wanted. As I was just a
>> summer instructor, I don't know how exactly teaching varies in this regard
>> from center to center. Regarding the situation for dogs, I am not quite an
>> expert on what is demanded; but I know if you aren't teaching travel, you're
>> not going to be very mobile during the day, unless there are field trips.
>> There's not much use for a cane or pup in the kitchen, computer lab, etc. I
>> know at BLIND, Inc. students and staff with dogs were able to take their
>> dogs out during class breaks, when we are pretty much free to do what we
>> want. I don't know if they want everyone to be using canes exclusively for
>> simple things like going to the bathroom and what not, or on day trips. This
>> might vary from place to place. Judging from my experience at BLIND, Inc.
>> and Colorado, staff people are certainly permitted to use their dogs outside
>> of regular classes. If a staff person isn't allowed to use a dog during
>> classes like braille and tech, I can't exactly explain it, other than that
>> the students need to use canes, and perhaps they simply want staff to
>> conform to what the students are doing. At LCB, and probably for the most
>> part at the other centers, a student's travel between classrooms, on field
>> trips, etc. is all considered an aspect of mobility training, and thus canes
>> are required. I can't answer for the centers as to the exact reason why
>> canes are so favored; but my guess is that it has to do with the training
>> and problem solving opportunities a cane offers and a dog does not. That is
>> not to put down the utility of dogs as a travel aid. The policies are
>> certainly not some institutionalized condescension towards dogs and their
>> people. If that was the case, then there wouldn't be so many staff at these
>> centers that use dogs. I believe Pam Allen (head of LCB) did use a dog for a
>> while. In Colorado in 2000, almost all of my instructors had a dog,
>> including Melissa (now Riccobono).
>> 
>>               As per the NFB, there's really no litmus test for
>> participating in the organization. They think blindness shouldn't be a
>> factor that will stop you in pursuing what you want in life, but you need
>> not be a human drone, or some marathon-running, astrophysicist. I certainly
>> don't agree with everything that is decided upon in resolutions, elections,
>> and moves decided upon by the board members and whoever influences them.
>> Like other organizations, it is what the members make of it, and from my
>> experience, such people run the gamut from stooges that will make you gag to
>> stars that'll make you feel inadequate. In my experiences, like at the
>> conventions, I'll go to one event, where I detect nothing but a mob of dumb,
>> snobby assholes (like myself), and I'll go to another event where I'll
>> encounter some of the greatest, nicest, most inspiring people I've ever met
>> (like myself). The latter situation together with the benefits I did get
>> from the LCB are probably the biggest reasons why I'm still involved. The
>> federation unfortunately currently draws in more people from some regions of
>> the country than others, and that can mean lots of geographical and
>> cultural-based baggage-you get cliques and pear pressure, but there it is.
>> I've encountered the same thing in other big organizations. 
>> 
>> I greatly appreciate your attention!
>> 
>> Trevor          
>> 
>> P.S. Is there any way I can respond directly to a string of emails when I am
>> getting the messages in digest form?
>> 
>> PPS, In the wise words of one Bill Clinton, "can't we all just get along?"
>> Very sad that there is such a political schism in the blind world.
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/troubleclark%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bestca21%40gmail.com


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 13 17:04:37 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Sun, 13 Sep 2015 13:04:37 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] My Technology Journey
Message-ID: <55f5acbb.8677810a.3ac3d.ffffb986@mx.google.com>

Dear Students,

I hope all of you are doing well.  I'd like to to tell you about 
my tourney towards using assistive technology.  This tourney 
began in elementary school when I was introduced to the Perkins 
braille writer and given one to take home.  I still have my 
Perkins braille writer at home but I do not use it.  In my 
eighth-grade year of middle school I received my first 
BrailleNote which was an M-power unit.  I now have a BrailleNote 
Apex that I use to complete my assignments.  I also receive 
private tutoring in the use of Jaws.  I use my IPad and my IPhone 
on a daily basis.


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 14 08:21:29 2015
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 04:21:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <SNT407-EAS194E450918B71E0F332CDA7DC5D0@phx.gbl>

We as a population of the blind are not militant enough. This is why these problems keep happening. We are to peaceful and it has to stop. We have to much divide amongst us, EG: NFB, ACB, etc.  We need an Al Sharpton type of person behind us for us to really start to achieve a measure of equality in our Society.



Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 12, 2015, at 1:05 AM, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
> textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
> anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
> something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
> hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my class,
> where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based on
> other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
> should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that is
> out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
> You'll get through it!
> 
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
>> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
>> company.
>> 
>> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
>> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
>> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
>> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
>> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
>> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
>> electronically through the university's library database, which of
>> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>> 
>> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
>> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
>> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
>> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
>> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
>> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
>> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
>> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
>> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
>> services office.
>> 
>> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
>> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
>> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
>> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
>> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
>> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
>> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
>> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
>> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
>> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
>> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
>> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
>> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
>> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
>> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
>> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
>> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
>> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
>> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>> 
>> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
>> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
>> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
>> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
>> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
>> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
>> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
>> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
>> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
>> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>> 
>> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
>> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
>> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
>> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
>> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
>> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
>> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
>> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
>> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
>> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
>> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
>> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
>> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
>> manner so I can do my work.
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti Shelton
>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>> Division 2015-2016
>> 
>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From kestomberg at coe.edu  Mon Sep 14 11:44:24 2015
From: kestomberg at coe.edu (STOMBERG, KENNEDY)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 06:44:24 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Adding Live Links
Message-ID: <CANvQTY5CueRpG+Q+AQkA-dcrGK6v3gxsPGPGBMD1-8tb8X5opw@mail.gmail.com>

Hello All, This semester, I am inrolled in a callass where one of the
assignments is to contribute to an online discussion. The professor has
requested that when we use online sources in our responses, that we post
live links to the specific article or website that we used. Does anyone
know how to do this? I use Jaws for windows, and my browser is Internet
Explorer. Any help you can give would be greatly appriciated!

From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 13:31:40 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 09:31:40 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Adding Live Links
In-Reply-To: <CANvQTY5CueRpG+Q+AQkA-dcrGK6v3gxsPGPGBMD1-8tb8X5opw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CANvQTY5CueRpG+Q+AQkA-dcrGK6v3gxsPGPGBMD1-8tb8X5opw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <005001d0eef1$b0dd8160$12988420$@gmail.com>

When you are on the internet page, use alt d, then control a to select all,
control c to copy, then go to your wirte up and use control v to paste.  Do
you write up in Microsoft word before pasting it into the online format.  
You should be able to hit f6 to get out of the web address. 
If anyone has anymore to add, then please do so.

Justin.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of STOMBERG,
KENNEDY via nabs-l
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 7:44 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: STOMBERG, KENNEDY <kestomberg at coe.edu>
Subject: [nabs-l] Adding Live Links

Hello All, This semester, I am inrolled in a callass where one of the
assignments is to contribute to an online discussion. The professor has
requested that when we use online sources in our responses, that we post
live links to the specific article or website that we used. Does anyone know
how to do this? I use Jaws for windows, and my browser is Internet Explorer.
Any help you can give would be greatly appriciated!
_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com



From zumbagecko at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 17:21:31 2015
From: zumbagecko at gmail.com (petras)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 10:21:31 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone
Message-ID: <55f70231.a58a440a.a8f27.ffffc02f@mx.google.com>

Hi, I went to the software update settings and noticed that it's 
blank.  Like is the screen was locked.  I knew there was a new 
update available.  How do I install it?


From jhud7789 at outlook.com  Mon Sep 14 17:24:54 2015
From: jhud7789 at outlook.com (Joseph Hudson)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:24:54 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone
In-Reply-To: <55f70231.a58a440a.a8f27.ffffc02f@mx.google.com>
References: <55f70231.a58a440a.a8f27.ffffc02f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <BN3PR1201MB0964DCC813CDC238DE0265DACE5D0@BN3PR1201MB0964.namprd12.prod.outlook.com>

Hello, you have to kind a text around the screen in front of the install button. Sometimes voiceover loses focus in is unable to get directly right on the install button. The latest upgrade right now is 8.4.1point one.
Joseph Hudson
Email
jhud7789 at gmail.com<mailto:jhud7789 at gmail.com>
I device support
Telephone
2543007667
Skype
joseph.hudson89 facebook
https://www.facebook.com/joseph.hudson.9404
Twitter
https://twitter.com/josephhudson89

On Sep 14, 2015, at 12:21 PM, petras via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org>> wrote:

Hi, I went to the software update settings and noticed that it's blank.  Like is the screen was locked.  I knew there was a new update available.  How do I install it?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org<mailto:nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jhud7789%40outlook.com


From cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 18:00:42 2015
From: cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:00:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] University of Maryland Seeking Blind Students for Testing
	of New Device
Message-ID: <000001d0ef17$47163b70$d542b250$@gmail.com>

Fellow Federationists:

 

A group of students at the University of Maryland at College Park are
currently developing a new device which has the potential to significantly
help blind students better understand the graphics and figures used in our
math and science classes. Although this study has been in progress for some
time now and these students have made a number of presentations at NFB
events in order to gain participants for their research, they are now
nearing their deadline and will soon need to collect and analyze data on
their final product. Therefore, I am asking all who are interested and who
live in the MD/DC/VA area to read the below solicitation and consider
participating in this research as a blind tester. As they near completion on
this important project, let's show our appreciation to these students for
their willingness to learn from our organization throughout this process.
Here is their advertisement:

 

"Earn $40 by participating in a short research study. University of Maryland
students are developing a new touch screen aimed to help mathematics
students learn math. This new touch screen technology allows users to FEEL
images on a 2D surface. If you would like to help with this research study,
please contact team-haptic at umd.edu for more information."

Thanks!

Laura

 

Chris Nusbaum, Vice President

Greater Carroll County Chapter, National Federation of the Blind of Maryland

Vice President, Maryland Association of Blind Students

Board Member, National Association of Blind Students

Coordinator of Social Media, National Federation of the Blind of Maryland

Phone: (443) 547-2409

Email: dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com

Twitter: @Chrisn98 and @NFBMD

 

The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the
characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the
expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles
between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want;
blindness is not what holds you back.

 


From cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 18:01:53 2015
From: cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:01:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone
In-Reply-To: <55f70231.a58a440a.a8f27.ffffc02f@mx.google.com>
References: <55f70231.a58a440a.a8f27.ffffc02f@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <000d01d0ef17$701a1c30$504e5490$@gmail.com>

Petras:

If you are referring to iOS 9, I believe this update is not expected to be
released until Wednesday.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of petras via
nabs-l
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 1:22 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Cc: petras
Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone

Hi, I went to the software update settings and noticed that it's blank.
Like is the screen was locked.  I knew there was a new update available.
How do I install it?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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From zumbagecko at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 18:12:28 2015
From: zumbagecko at gmail.com (petras)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 11:12:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone
Message-ID: <55f70e23.2108450a.97c6e.ffffd597@mx.google.com>

It doesn't even tell me that it's up to date.  It's just blank.

 ----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Date sent: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:01:53 -0400
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone

Petras:

If you are referring to iOS 9, I believe this update is not 
expected to be
released until Wednesday.

Chris

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of 
petras via
nabs-l
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 1:22 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Cc: petras
Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone

Hi, I went to the software update settings and noticed that it's 
blank.
Like is the screen was locked.  I knew there was a new update 
available.
How do I install it?

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%4
0gmail.com


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for nabs-l:
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gmail.com


From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 18:41:26 2015
From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:41:26 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone
In-Reply-To: <55f70e23.2108450a.97c6e.ffffd597@mx.google.com>
References: <55f70e23.2108450a.97c6e.ffffd597@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CBC49A57-4F17-493B-A53C-DB3949DB535C@gmail.com>

Hey! Petras! This is Helga. How are you?  If you said that i s blank, I think you should just turn off your iPhone,and then turn it back on, and after turn it back on, return to the software update,and flick right untill you hear install button. But one thing, before you turn your phone off, be sure that all the apps are close ok?  Sometimes the screen gets blank due to the internet connection,and it usually get fix when you turn off the iPhone. By the way, what type of iPhone do you have exactly? Just owndering. Hope these suggestions help! If you  need help with this, feel free to contact me off list ok? I look forward in hearing from you soon! Thanks and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 2:12 PM, petras via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> It doesn't even tell me that it's up to date.  It's just blank.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> To: "'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'" <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 14:01:53 -0400
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone
> 
> Petras:
> 
> If you are referring to iOS 9, I believe this update is not expected to be
> released until Wednesday.
> 
> Chris
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of petras via
> nabs-l
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 1:22 PM
> To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> Cc: petras
> Subject: [nabs-l] any way to update my iphone
> 
> Hi, I went to the software update settings and noticed that it's blank.
> Like is the screen was locked.  I knew there was a new update available.
> How do I install it?
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%4
> 0gmail.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/zumbagecko%40
> gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com

From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 14 23:11:34 2015
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:11:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <SNT407-EAS194E450918B71E0F332CDA7DC5D0@phx.gbl>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com><CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT407-EAS194E450918B71E0F332CDA7DC5D0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>

That's right. We are too peaceful and quiet about our activities; lots of 
media coverage about minority discrimination, but when is the last time you 
read of a case about a blind person seeking opportunity and being denied or 
another disabled person?
I've not read much coverage despite all the advocacy going on amongst 
various disability groups and civil rights groups who also do disability 
rights work.

I also think progress for equality in the virtual environment is painfully 
slow due to the fact we are a minority and the fact that web content 
accessibility guidelines are voluntary. In other words, if a vendor puts out 
inaccessible content or software, there is little legal action one can take 
against them.

I do hope things get better for the next generation of students.

Ashley

-----Original Message----- 
From: wmodnl wmodnl via nabs-l
Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 4:21 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: wmodnl wmodnl
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems

We as a population of the blind are not militant enough. This is why these 
problems keep happening. We are to peaceful and it has to stop. We have to 
much divide amongst us, EG: NFB, ACB, etc.  We need an Al Sharpton type of 
person behind us for us to really start to achieve a measure of equality in 
our Society.



Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 12, 2015, at 1:05 AM, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
> Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
> textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
> anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
> something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
> hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my 
> class,
> where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based 
> on
> other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
> should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that 
> is
> out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
> You'll get through it!
>
> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
>> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
>> company.
>>
>> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
>> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
>> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
>> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
>> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
>> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
>> electronically through the university's library database, which of
>> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>>
>> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
>> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
>> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
>> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
>> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
>> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
>> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
>> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
>> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
>> services office.
>>
>> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
>> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
>> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
>> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
>> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
>> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
>> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
>> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
>> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
>> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
>> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
>> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
>> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
>> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
>> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
>> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
>> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
>> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
>> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>>
>> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
>> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
>> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
>> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
>> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
>> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
>> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
>> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
>> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
>> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>>
>> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
>> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
>> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
>> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
>> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
>> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
>> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
>> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
>> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
>> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
>> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
>> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
>> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
>> manner so I can do my work.
>>
>> --
>> Kaiti Shelton
>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>> Division 2015-2016
>>
>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com

_______________________________________________
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
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From blindstein at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 23:28:58 2015
From: blindstein at gmail.com (Justin Harford)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 16:28:58 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT407-EAS194E450918B71E0F332CDA7DC5D0@phx.gbl>
	<0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <38D44AAA-8D11-4969-B94F-CE47F6AE5876@gmail.com>

Hard to imagine how we will get the people from the council to be militant.

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 4:11 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> That's right. We are too peaceful and quiet about our activities; lots of media coverage about minority discrimination, but when is the last time you read of a case about a blind person seeking opportunity and being denied or another disabled person?
> I've not read much coverage despite all the advocacy going on amongst various disability groups and civil rights groups who also do disability rights work.
> 
> I also think progress for equality in the virtual environment is painfully slow due to the fact we are a minority and the fact that web content accessibility guidelines are voluntary. In other words, if a vendor puts out inaccessible content or software, there is little legal action one can take against them.
> 
> I do hope things get better for the next generation of students.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: wmodnl wmodnl via nabs-l
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 4:21 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: wmodnl wmodnl
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
> 
> We as a population of the blind are not militant enough. This is why these problems keep happening. We are to peaceful and it has to stop. We have to much divide amongst us, EG: NFB, ACB, etc.  We need an Al Sharpton type of person behind us for us to really start to achieve a measure of equality in our Society.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2015, at 1:05 AM, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
>> textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
>> anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
>> something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
>> hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my class,
>> where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based on
>> other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
>> should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that is
>> out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
>> You'll get through it!
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
>>> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
>>> company.
>>> 
>>> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
>>> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
>>> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
>>> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
>>> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
>>> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
>>> electronically through the university's library database, which of
>>> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>>> 
>>> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
>>> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
>>> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
>>> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
>>> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
>>> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
>>> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
>>> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
>>> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
>>> services office.
>>> 
>>> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
>>> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
>>> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
>>> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
>>> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
>>> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
>>> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
>>> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
>>> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
>>> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
>>> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
>>> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
>>> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
>>> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
>>> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
>>> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
>>> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
>>> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
>>> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>>> 
>>> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
>>> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
>>> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
>>> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
>>> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
>>> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
>>> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
>>> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
>>> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
>>> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>>> 
>>> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
>>> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
>>> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
>>> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
>>> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
>>> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
>>> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
>>> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
>>> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
>>> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
>>> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
>>> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
>>> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
>>> manner so I can do my work.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>>> Division 2015-2016
>>> 
>>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindstein%40gmail.com


From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 14 23:36:13 2015
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 19:36:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <16EDC93DDE4F46C4AA24CC14CEAE6ED1@OwnerPC>

Kaiti,

What a problem. I've taken electives for a few years at our local community 
college called Nova for short; northern virginia community college.
At Nova, we also have a accessibility issues with the library site. Library 
services says they cannot change the website; they say it is
IT's job to do that and design the website, and from what I've heard from 
the AT coordinator, the web design team knows about the problems but fails 
to make changes.
Disability services is well aware of the problems too, from day 1.

Keep in mind that the school can only fix the website. They cannot make 
databases accessible because databases are accessed via a third party 
vendor. For instance if you access Opposing viewpoints, the vendor is Gale 
who runs the database.

I am afraid at this late time in the semester, the third week or fourth week 
depending on when you started, you will find it impossible to catch up with 
reading at the pace classes go in college. You might see if you can drop the 
class and get your money back as long as this does not jeopardize your full 
time status.

I've often used readers; old fashioned, but it works; and I record them on a 
vr stream or digital recorder.

Other than getting a reader, I'm not sure what to tell you.

What is the database and book? If I can access it through Nova or another 
nearby school, I'll see what I can do if anything.
Some ideas you might try are these:

1. Is there an older edition of the book either in print or ebook you can 
use that is less expensive? Maybe learning Ally or bookshare might have an 
earlier version back when it was hard copy.
2. Could you ask around school and either borrow or buy an earlier copy of 
the book? Maybe a student has their old copy still and you can use it. 
Either scan the book or use a reader; or maybe your DSS office will scan it.
3. Could you buy the book used from somewhere at a lesser price? Amazon and 
ebay have used books and many other places too.
4. Could you rent the ebook? Sometimes I think that is an option.
5. If you decide you want to buy it, ask the publisher for some sample pages 
and they can email you them or put them in something like drop box.
This way you can sample the book and see if it works. You could also see if 
anyone has bought the book and try jaws out on their machine if you download 
a jaws demo.
6. Have you tried doing the jaws OCR feature on the book? Sometimes this 
works on scanned images.
7. Try copy and pasting the text into a Word file or have someone do that 
for you if its not interfacing with the keyboard.

I've not had a required book online before but I've had several ebooks from 
the school library which I wanted to use for research but could not with 
accessibility issues. Its quite a pain.

Good luck!
Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2015 12:27 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Kaiti Shelton
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems

Hi all,

I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
company.

A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
electronically through the university's library database, which of
course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.

I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
services office.

I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.

There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?

I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
manner so I can do my work.

-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon Sep 14 23:37:42 2015
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 17:37:42 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT407-EAS194E450918B71E0F332CDA7DC5D0@phx.gbl>
	<0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <BBC693D3-93B3-4B95-AB91-9F6C6D8A3EA5@gmail.com>

Ashley,
  
  Luckily we don’t have to just  hope that things will change, we can take an active role in seeing that change comes.

  As for the various minority groups you speak of, they, like the blindness related groups have the opportunity to organize themselves  an seek the change they  desire.
  We are at  work as members of the NFB to do just that and hopefully any and all of us who believe there is a problem truly worth solving will do their part to bring about change as opposed to wait for someone else to maybe, hopefully, possibly change things for us.  I tend to think that if we are alright  with not doing what we can, we are saying that we are alright with what is and that we  will allow for the discrimination to be.
   . 
  
> On Sep 14, 2015, at 5:11 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> That's right. We are too peaceful and quiet about our activities; lots of media coverage about minority discrimination, but when is the last time you read of a case about a blind person seeking opportunity and being denied or another disabled person?
> I've not read much coverage despite all the advocacy going on amongst various disability groups and civil rights groups who also do disability rights work.
> 
> I also think progress for equality in the virtual environment is painfully slow due to the fact we are a minority and the fact that web content accessibility guidelines are voluntary. In other words, if a vendor puts out inaccessible content or software, there is little legal action one can take against them.
> 
> I do hope things get better for the next generation of students.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: wmodnl wmodnl via nabs-l
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 4:21 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: wmodnl wmodnl
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
> 
> We as a population of the blind are not militant enough. This is why these problems keep happening. We are to peaceful and it has to stop. We have to much divide amongst us, EG: NFB, ACB, etc.  We need an Al Sharpton type of person behind us for us to really start to achieve a measure of equality in our Society.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2015, at 1:05 AM, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
>> textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
>> anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
>> something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
>> hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my class,
>> where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based on
>> other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
>> should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that is
>> out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
>> You'll get through it!
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
>>> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
>>> company.
>>> 
>>> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
>>> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
>>> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
>>> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
>>> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
>>> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
>>> electronically through the university's library database, which of
>>> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>>> 
>>> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
>>> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
>>> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
>>> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
>>> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
>>> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
>>> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
>>> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
>>> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
>>> services office.
>>> 
>>> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
>>> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
>>> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
>>> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
>>> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
>>> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
>>> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
>>> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
>>> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
>>> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
>>> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
>>> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
>>> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
>>> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
>>> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
>>> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
>>> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
>>> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
>>> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>>> 
>>> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
>>> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
>>> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
>>> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
>>> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
>>> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
>>> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
>>> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
>>> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
>>> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>>> 
>>> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
>>> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
>>> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
>>> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
>>> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
>>> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
>>> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
>>> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
>>> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
>>> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
>>> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
>>> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
>>> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
>>> manner so I can do my work.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>>> Division 2015-2016
>>> 
>>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Tue Sep 15 00:47:26 2015
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian)
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2015 18:47:26 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <38D44AAA-8D11-4969-B94F-CE47F6AE5876@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT407-EAS194E450918B71E0F332CDA7DC5D0@phx.gbl>
	<0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>
	<38D44AAA-8D11-4969-B94F-CE47F6AE5876@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <8B90905A-FDFD-4BBA-BC4E-5512FE743475@gmail.com>

Al Sharpton type individual? Please clarify. 

Sure we have two different organizations that have two different ways of going about what they believed to be the same thing 
While it certainly would be advantageous for both organizations to work together,  my personal opinion is that we are best served to work together as an organization towards the things that we believe need to be changed.  We can hope for something different, we can wish for something different, or we can work with what we have and do what we can.  
So in the end while larger numbers are always impressive, it is about the quality of our work as opposed to the sheer quantity of people that we convince of the importance of an action

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 5:28 PM, Justin Harford via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hard to imagine how we will get the people from the council to be militant.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 14, 2015, at 4:11 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> That's right. We are too peaceful and quiet about our activities; lots of media coverage about minority discrimination, but when is the last time you read of a case about a blind person seeking opportunity and being denied or another disabled person?
>> I've not read much coverage despite all the advocacy going on amongst various disability groups and civil rights groups who also do disability rights work.
>> 
>> I also think progress for equality in the virtual environment is painfully slow due to the fact we are a minority and the fact that web content accessibility guidelines are voluntary. In other words, if a vendor puts out inaccessible content or software, there is little legal action one can take against them.
>> 
>> I do hope things get better for the next generation of students.
>> 
>> Ashley
>> 
>> -----Original Message----- From: wmodnl wmodnl via nabs-l
>> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 4:21 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Cc: wmodnl wmodnl
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
>> 
>> We as a population of the blind are not militant enough. This is why these problems keep happening. We are to peaceful and it has to stop. We have to much divide amongst us, EG: NFB, ACB, etc.  We need an Al Sharpton type of person behind us for us to really start to achieve a measure of equality in our Society.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPad
>> 
>>> On Sep 12, 2015, at 1:05 AM, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
>>> textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
>>> anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
>>> something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
>>> hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my class,
>>> where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based on
>>> other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
>>> should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that is
>>> out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
>>> You'll get through it!
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Hi all,
>>>> 
>>>> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
>>>> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
>>>> company.
>>>> 
>>>> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
>>>> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
>>>> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
>>>> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
>>>> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
>>>> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
>>>> electronically through the university's library database, which of
>>>> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>>>> 
>>>> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
>>>> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
>>>> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
>>>> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
>>>> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
>>>> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
>>>> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
>>>> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
>>>> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
>>>> services office.
>>>> 
>>>> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
>>>> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
>>>> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
>>>> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
>>>> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
>>>> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
>>>> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
>>>> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
>>>> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
>>>> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
>>>> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
>>>> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
>>>> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
>>>> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
>>>> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
>>>> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
>>>> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
>>>> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
>>>> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>>>> 
>>>> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
>>>> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
>>>> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
>>>> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
>>>> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
>>>> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
>>>> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
>>>> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
>>>> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
>>>> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>>>> 
>>>> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
>>>> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
>>>> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
>>>> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
>>>> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
>>>> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
>>>> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
>>>> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
>>>> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
>>>> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
>>>> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
>>>> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
>>>> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
>>>> manner so I can do my work.
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>>>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>>>> Division 2015-2016
>>>> 
>>>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/blindstein%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com


From PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu  Tue Sep 15 17:47:31 2015
From: PRESIDENT at alumni.ecu.edu (Justin Salisbury)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:47:31 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] NASA Summer 2016 Recruitment Letter for Student Interns
 with Disabilities Attached
In-Reply-To: <BBCBFC46ED568B42842627B639C8E78A0C7D2DE3@NDMSMBX403.ndc.nasa.gov>
References: <BBCBFC46ED568B42842627B639C8E78A0C7D25A9@NDMSMBX403.ndc.nasa.gov>
	<BY2PR0401MB1112AA7BB06413942DD640D9A7560@BY2PR0401MB1112.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>
	<BBCBFC46ED568B42842627B639C8E78A0C7D2DE3@NDMSMBX403.ndc.nasa.gov>
Message-ID: <CY1PR05MB1913AAB5CF7CCD7D6C2B4E5A895C0@CY1PR05MB1913.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>

Fellow Blind Students:

Check out the attached recruitment letter for NASA summer programs!

Enjoy,

Justin Salisbury

Justin Salisbury, NOMC
Graduate Student
Professional Development and Research Institute on Blindness
Louisiana Tech University
Email: President at Alumni.ECU.edu<mailto:President at Alumni.ECU.edu>
Twitter: @SalisburyJustin

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out-
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me-and there was no one left to speak for me.

Martin Niemöller

From: Silberman, Kenneth A. (GSFC-1600) [mailto:kenneth.a.silberman at nasa.gov]
Sent: Tuesday, September 15, 2015 12:01 PM
To: Silberman, Kenneth A. (GSFC-1600) <kenneth.a.silberman at nasa.gov>
Subject: NASA Summer 2016 Recruitment Letter for Student Interns with Disabilities Attached


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From dandrews at visi.com  Tue Sep 15 22:15:12 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2015 17:15:12 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Label Maker
Message-ID: <auto-000036723691@mailfront1.g2host.com>

We have been asked to circulate the following:


Waterbury, Connecticut – January 15th, 2015

LoganTech Assistive Technology Company

  launches a New Approach to Braille Label Making.

LoganTech, a leading provider in assistive 
technology announces the launch of the 6dot 
Braille Label Maker. This device is an expansion 
of the early design by the 6dot Kickstarter 
project. There is already a huge international 
interest in this highly sought after device which 
will hit the market in July as the company has 
placed its final touches on the powerful and 
unprecedented device. Unique in its portability 
it offers exciting new opportunities for those 
using Braille to expand their world.

“We are excited to launch the 6dot Braille Label 
Maker which will help Braille users maintain 
their independence and enhance many 
opportunities. Embracing the early success of the 
6dot we have built a more robust and flexible 
unit which will change lives” says Glen Dobbs 
President of LoganTech who acquired the 6dot 
brand in 2012 to support its product development 
and to expand their presence in the blind/low vision market.

6dot has been contributing to the Braille 
community for four years now, the first version 
of the Braille Label Maker rendered positive 
results across the board, with 100 users actively 
labeling, but nothing as incredible as this upgrade is projected to receive.

The 6dot Braille Label Maker has everything 
Braille users need to create high quality Braille 
labels in any language. Powerful but simple, 6dot 
is ergonomically designed to make it easy for 
children and adults of all ages to label 
practically anything at home, school, the office, 
or on the go.  The features of the Braille Label Maker are as followed:
·        Ergonomically designed to be portable and easy to use anywhere
·        Built in Braille keyboard supports all 
grades of Braille in virtually every language
·        Powered embossing makes for high quality 
Braille that can be accurately read
·        Optional QWERTY connectivity enables non Braillist to generate labels
·        Automatic cutter provides effortlessly 
clean label cuts without the need for scissors
·        Dual power options, AC/DC adapters or 
battery powering, extends the choice for users



Notes to editor

Attached to this press release are images of the 6dot Braille Label Maker.

President of LoganTech Glen Dobbs and VP of 
Product management Robert Liebert will be 
available for interviews by phone, Skype, or face to face.

This device will be available from LoganTech 
directly and from our nationwide distributors. 
For more information contact LoganTech 
(203)721-7064, Email 
<mailto:info at logantech.com>info at logantech.com, or 
visit our website at 
<file:///C:\Users\Joyce\Downloads\www.logantech.com>www.logantech.com.




6dBLM-1.jpg





         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
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From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 06:32:14 2015
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 02:32:14 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Kindle application on IOS:
In-Reply-To: <auto-000036723691@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <auto-000036723691@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <SNT407-EAS13855605E70102B85DC0B45DC5B0@phx.gbl>

Hello has anyone used the Kindle app? If so, what are your thoughts or tricks to make it work?
It is interesting I find downloading books to it to be pretty easy with the Kindle app store website but the app itself will just read continuously with voiceover. I guess it's maybe not so good to have if you need to read something like a textbook. If I remember correctly it is actually improved over the years.
Have a good day.





From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Wed Sep 16 06:44:35 2015
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 02:44:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
In-Reply-To: <0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>
References: <CAFja7FYuArtFTUgYU218FVA5V8QN55V9emmXsggg7wp-fO-66g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CANvQTY5zmJDzoOjGf+njJ3hOYS98MGrtRHp-XnNbmmkW7z9M9g@mail.gmail.com>
	<SNT407-EAS194E450918B71E0F332CDA7DC5D0@phx.gbl>
	<0B6C968D9BE8433C9C79145CA597EAB5@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <SNT407-EAS29806E8EB1A68DA348F1688DC5B0@phx.gbl>

I really like your comment below. It really says something about a bigger problem in this country. Until our society can look beyond racial divide and the many problems that are occurring, they will never be able to see disability as being integrated.
I am glad that my original message has brought up other pieces of the discussion. There is too much fragmentation when it comes to advocacy efforts and organizations. I'm being general with that commentz. There are too many different agendas and lofty goals within all these organizations.


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 14, 2015, at 7:12 PM, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> That's right. We are too peaceful and quiet about our activities; lots of media coverage about minority discrimination, but when is the last time you read of a case about a blind person seeking opportunity and being denied or another disabled person?
> I've not read much coverage despite all the advocacy going on amongst various disability groups and civil rights groups who also do disability rights work.
> 
> I also think progress for equality in the virtual environment is painfully slow due to the fact we are a minority and the fact that web content accessibility guidelines are voluntary. In other words, if a vendor puts out inaccessible content or software, there is little legal action one can take against them.
> 
> I do hope things get better for the next generation of students.
> 
> Ashley
> 
> -----Original Message----- From: wmodnl wmodnl via nabs-l
> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2015 4:21 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: wmodnl wmodnl
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Publishers and EPub problems
> 
> We as a population of the blind are not militant enough. This is why these problems keep happening. We are to peaceful and it has to stop. We have to much divide amongst us, EG: NFB, ACB, etc.  We need an Al Sharpton type of person behind us for us to really start to achieve a measure of equality in our Society.
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 12, 2015, at 1:05 AM, STOMBERG, KENNEDY via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Kaiti, I feel your pain! I'm having similar trouble with an online
>> textbook. I don't know what advice I can give you. Are you friends with
>> anyone in the class? Maybe you could get notes from them in exchange for
>> something you could do for them? Or could your Disabbility Services Office
>> hire a reader for you? That looks like what I will have to do for my class,
>> where I'm having the same problem. I know this is frustrating, but based on
>> other e-mails I have seen from you, you are ambitious and your professors
>> should feel lucky to have you in class, not frustrated by something that is
>> out of zr control. Try to keep your head up, and keep moving forward!
>> You'll get through it!
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 11, 2015 at 11:27 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I recently posted about an Epub file textbook that I am using.  While
>>> this is a separate issue, it is dealing with the same publishing
>>> company.
>>> 
>>> A publisher for a lot of my textbooks is moving away from selling
>>> print editions of their books, and instead is moving towards selling
>>> the Ebook versions from their web site.  I'm in a situation now where
>>> a textbook I need for one of my classes is very big and very
>>> expensive.  In order to save the class money and from having to cary
>>> the book around, the professor is letting everyone access the book
>>> electronically through the university's library database, which of
>>> course is not accessible to me with NVDA or JAWS.
>>> 
>>> I've been battling the library for the past 2 years because this
>>> obviously hinders my ability to research, but they say it's
>>> E-learning's job to make the databases accessible, E-learning says
>>> their focus is on our sakai site and they have nothing to do with the
>>> library stuff, and disability services has known about it from day one
>>> but hasn't backed me up or applied pressure on either department to
>>> fix itso that's obviously a huge problem.  In any case, the real issue
>>> is that supposedly the publisher does not have a publisher file like
>>> they would for a print textbook that they can send to my disability
>>> services office.
>>> 
>>> I did submit an alternative format request to the disability services
>>> office so they could make me a copy of the book.  When they found out
>>> the publisher supposedly had no file to give them (apparently they say
>>> they can't get the Ebook and convert it) they said we'd have to go on
>>> through the library database and get the book from there.  The problem
>>> with this is that only 60 pages can be coppied at a time, which is
>>> severely delaying this process.  The disability services office also
>>> appears to be understaffed this semester, so I've been receiving
>>> things behind my syllabus schedule.  When I drop off documents in hard
>>> copy they take upwards of four or five business days to be done
>>> instead of hours like they were before, and when I call to say, "I
>>> dropped off this or sent in a request for pages 1-25 in my textbook
>>> from the library database a few days ago and my class is tomorrow
>>> afternoon," I'm just told that they'll hopefully get to my conversion
>>> soon.  It is now the middle of September and I'm going to classes
>>> without having read required material because I don't have it.  My
>>> professors are starting to become less understanding, and I don't want
>>> them to see the lack of preparation as something I caused for myself
>>> rather than an issue with getting the materials I need.
>>> 
>>> There are several problems with this, but specifically with the
>>> textbook I don't know what to do.  I am tempted to buy the Ebook and
>>> just take care of it myself, but it is very expensive and may/may not
>>> work with my technology depending on how it is set up, as it was
>>> explained to me in my other thread.  The other issue is that none of
>>> my classmates have needed to pay for their book since they can just go
>>> online.  Of course this would not be a problem if the library would
>>> listen and make their database and web site accessible, but it also
>>> would not be a problem if the publisher would give the DS office some
>>> kind of file.  I thought they were legally bound to do that?
>>> 
>>> I guess I'm at a loss for what to do.  This is a high 300 level
>>> theories seminar-style course and I need to have my readings to
>>> actively participate.  I've told the ds office at this point to just
>>> scan documents and run the pdfs through robobraille and send them to
>>> me without significant editing just so I have the materials.  I feel
>>> like I'm advocating with them to get my stuff done but I'm not being
>>> successful, the library has not been successful either as everyone
>>> seems to be passing the buck and DS hasn't backed me up even though
>>> they are aware of the issue and have been since I brought it to their
>>> attention 2 years ago, and I feel like I want to try to contact the
>>> publisher, but doubt hearing from a student rather than the disability
>>> professional will do anything.  I guess I'm just frustrated and at a
>>> loss as to where I should go from here to get my materials in a timely
>>> manner so I can do my work.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>>> Division 2015-2016
>>> 
>>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kestomberg%40coe.edu
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/wmodnl%40hotmail.com


From kcj21 at bellsouth.net  Wed Sep 16 17:11:20 2015
From: kcj21 at bellsouth.net (kcj21)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 17:11:20 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [nabs-l] Kindle application on IOS:
In-Reply-To: <SNT407-EAS13855605E70102B85DC0B45DC5B0@phx.gbl>
References: <SNT407-EAS13855605E70102B85DC0B45DC5B0@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <1997857872.331041.1442423480327.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>

I've used the kindle app a few times and have found that you can stopping using voiceover and the app will remember what page you were on , so you can just turn on voiceover when you want to continue reading it will just continue from where you left off. I did however, have trouble purchasing ebooks on the ios app. You can get a free sample, but I haven't quite figured out how to buy the book through the app. If anyone has figured this out, please let me know.
Best,Kaley 


     On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 2:32 AM, wmodnl wmodnl via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
   

 Hello has anyone used the Kindle app? If so, what are your thoughts or tricks to make it work?
It is interesting I find downloading books to it to be pretty easy with the Kindle app store website but the app itself will just read continuously with voiceover. I guess it's maybe not so good to have if you need to read something like a textbook. If I remember correctly it is actually improved over the years.
Have a good day.




_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net


   

From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 19:06:45 2015
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 14:06:45 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Guide for helping students with visual disabilities
Message-ID: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi fellow Nabsters,

If you are wishing for reading material to kick off your
procrastination time, check this out.  It's a guide that is currently
being advertised to universities around the country.  It's a bit of a
long read, but this is what colleges and universities may put on their
sites.  What would you think if this guide was going on your
university's website?  For those interested, there is a list of
scholarships towards the bottom.  Also, has anyone in NABS or the
division itself ever developed a guide like this or any list of tips
for incoming college students.  Anyway, I'll stop rambling and post
the link below:
http://www.accreditedschoolsonline.org/resources/helping-students-with-visual-impairments/


-- 
Julie McGinnity
National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
National Federation of the Blind performing arts division vice
president,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
"For we walk by faith, not by sight"
2 Cor. 7


From sgermano at asu.edu  Wed Sep 16 19:23:18 2015
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:23:18 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Guide for helping students with visual disabilities
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avfC-XMxp5MM2G3tYZ1dkiRNRrPvkxFD5+ihYsjYCXiirw@mail.gmail.com>

To start with their definitions are wrong


They have legally blind as:
"Legal blindness is defined as having corrected visual acuity between
20/100 and 20/200 or having a visual field of 20 degrees or less."

The correct definition is a corrected visual acuity of 20/200 or lower. I
don't recall the exact field for the definition.
Suzanne

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Julie McGinnity via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi fellow Nabsters,
>
> If you are wishing for reading material to kick off your
> procrastination time, check this out.  It's a guide that is currently
> being advertised to universities around the country.  It's a bit of a
> long read, but this is what colleges and universities may put on their
> sites.  What would you think if this guide was going on your
> university's website?  For those interested, there is a list of
> scholarships towards the bottom.  Also, has anyone in NABS or the
> division itself ever developed a guide like this or any list of tips
> for incoming college students.  Anyway, I'll stop rambling and post
> the link below:
>
> http://www.accreditedschoolsonline.org/resources/helping-students-with-visual-impairments/
>
>
> --
> Julie McGinnity
> National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division vice
> president,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
> graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
> 2 Cor. 7
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From sgermano at asu.edu  Wed Sep 16 19:46:28 2015
From: sgermano at asu.edu (Suzanne Germano)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 12:46:28 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Guide for helping students with visual disabilities
In-Reply-To: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAF=_avcjirkWBuWV82Yrg-jBUcyBVX7M-WV6sZLJwpe4YDR6og@mail.gmail.com>

Ok so further issues with the tools
They completely left off screen magnification, large print
The put magnifier under low vision but no legally blind
They have Braille translation software for legally blind but not totally
blind

The site really needs to be completely revamped

On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Julie McGinnity via nabs-l <
nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:

> Hi fellow Nabsters,
>
> If you are wishing for reading material to kick off your
> procrastination time, check this out.  It's a guide that is currently
> being advertised to universities around the country.  It's a bit of a
> long read, but this is what colleges and universities may put on their
> sites.  What would you think if this guide was going on your
> university's website?  For those interested, there is a list of
> scholarships towards the bottom.  Also, has anyone in NABS or the
> division itself ever developed a guide like this or any list of tips
> for incoming college students.  Anyway, I'll stop rambling and post
> the link below:
>
> http://www.accreditedschoolsonline.org/resources/helping-students-with-visual-impairments/
>
>
> --
> Julie McGinnity
> National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division vice
> president,
> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
> graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
> "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
> 2 Cor. 7
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>

From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Wed Sep 16 23:49:21 2015
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 17:49:21 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] A Guide for helping students with visual disabilities
In-Reply-To: <CAF=_avcjirkWBuWV82Yrg-jBUcyBVX7M-WV6sZLJwpe4YDR6og@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avcjirkWBuWV82Yrg-jBUcyBVX7M-WV6sZLJwpe4YDR6og@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <7442E5B3-09BE-45A0-B0CF-892D89CA22BF@gmail.com>

Hi all:
  I think this resource gave some good tips on doing your due diligence   on a person’s rights and responsibilities as a student at the school you are looking at potentially attending.  It also gave some good tips in regards to communicating with professors early and often.  I also liked  that this resource suggests getting involved on your campus with different clubs and groups as this is a great thing to do blind or not.
 I do appreciate the frequent mention of the National Federation of the Blind and  as a former board member this division i love the mention of The National  Association of  Blind Students as a resource  because we here are a great   resource for any student starting  college and matriculating through the system.
 I can tell that they did some research without doing a great amount of exhaustive research and so some of the resources were lacking.  I would have loved to see more  first-hand knowledge  being shared from students regarding different ways they’ve succeeded in college including visual and non-visual means and how one can work with/without voc rehab/disabled students offices. 
 At the same time, if we  don’t like the resource we can either not use it or create one that we like. On the whole I personally think it was a good resource, but not great.
  Darian    .  
> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Ok so further issues with the tools
> They completely left off screen magnification, large print
> The put magnifier under low vision but no legally blind
> They have Braille translation software for legally blind but not totally
> blind
> 
> The site really needs to be completely revamped
> 
> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Julie McGinnity via nabs-l <
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
>> Hi fellow Nabsters,
>> 
>> If you are wishing for reading material to kick off your
>> procrastination time, check this out.  It's a guide that is currently
>> being advertised to universities around the country.  It's a bit of a
>> long read, but this is what colleges and universities may put on their
>> sites.  What would you think if this guide was going on your
>> university's website?  For those interested, there is a list of
>> scholarships towards the bottom.  Also, has anyone in NABS or the
>> division itself ever developed a guide like this or any list of tips
>> for incoming college students.  Anyway, I'll stop rambling and post
>> the link below:
>> 
>> http://www.accreditedschoolsonline.org/resources/helping-students-with-visual-impairments/
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Julie McGinnity
>> National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
>> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division vice
>> president,
>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
>> graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
>> 2 Cor. 7
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com



From ligne14 at verizon.net  Thu Sep 17 01:37:57 2015
From: ligne14 at verizon.net (Sami Osborne)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 21:37:57 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] IOS 9 not released yet?
Message-ID: <0NUS00JX3SJUZO40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net>

Hi all,

So I have both an iPad and an iPhone, and heard that IOS 9 came 
out today, however I never received any notifications on either 
devices telling me to update the software, nor do I see anything 
in software update settings.  What's going on? Are there still 
issues that need to be resolved and that is the reason for the 
delay in the release? Also, I have proof of this fact; my friend 
Bryant is on the Apple beta testing team, and he confirmed that 
IOS 9 came out today.  Is what he told me correct?

I'm not being rude in inquiring this, I just think it's really 
strange that people are saying the new version is coming out 
today, but I haven't received anthing from my own devices.  What 
is happening?

Thanks,

Sami


From ropermeaghan at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 01:49:53 2015
From: ropermeaghan at gmail.com (Roper, Meaghan)
Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2015 21:49:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] IOS 9 not released yet?
In-Reply-To: <0NUS00JX3SJUZO40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net>
References: <0NUS00JX3SJUZO40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net>
Message-ID: <8AE32691-9F0E-4905-B856-EB7FA3C44174@gmail.com>

Hi Sami, 

I have an update available on my iPad but not my iPhone. Sometimes Apple is slow with releases for all their products and it may be a network issue on their end. Even though you may be on wifi or a data service from your phone or cable provider, Apple's networking signal can be faulty. I'm not sure how long you've had an iPhone, but back in 2013 Apple had a network crash and people couldn't use iMessage or text for several hours regardless of their service providers. 

My suggestion to you is to try requesting a software update in the settings, or plug your phone and tablet into the computer and it should prompt you to update. If these options don't work, you can press the hold button and home button simultaneously for 10 seconds and reset your phone, which will disconnect and reconnect if from all networks and re-load signals. I hope this helps. 

Meaghan 

Meaghan Roper
Earl Center for Learning
And Innovation
ECA Associate
Admissions Ambassador for Wheelock College
President of Wheelock Student Theater 
Vice President of the Nerd & Gaming Association of Wheelock College
Wheelock College Class of 2018
ropermeaghan at gmail.com
781-315-2720

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 9:37 PM, Sami Osborne via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> So I have both an iPad and an iPhone, and heard that IOS 9 came out today, however I never received any notifications on either devices telling me to update the software, nor do I see anything in software update settings.  What's going on? Are there still issues that need to be resolved and that is the reason for the delay in the release? Also, I have proof of this fact; my friend Bryant is on the Apple beta testing team, and he confirmed that IOS 9 came out today.  Is what he told me correct?
> 
> I'm not being rude in inquiring this, I just think it's really strange that people are saying the new version is coming out today, but I haven't received anthing from my own devices.  What is happening?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Sami
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ropermeaghan%40gmail.com


From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 05:09:13 2015
From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 01:09:13 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] IOS 9 not released yet?
In-Reply-To: <8AE32691-9F0E-4905-B856-EB7FA3C44174@gmail.com>
References: <0NUS00JX3SJUZO40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net>
	<8AE32691-9F0E-4905-B856-EB7FA3C44174@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E0C6065-866C-4A00-A15C-FE18497DDCFA@gmail.com>

Hi Sami! How are you? when I go to my software update on my iPhone it shows that I have the IOS 9 Software available! So I think is already on your iPhone in the software update inside general man! Check it now or whenever you have a chance man! Hope this helps man! I oook forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks and God bless!

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 9:49 PM, Roper, Meaghan via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sami, 
> 
> I have an update available on my iPad but not my iPhone. Sometimes Apple is slow with releases for all their products and it may be a network issue on their end. Even though you may be on wifi or a data service from your phone or cable provider, Apple's networking signal can be faulty. I'm not sure how long you've had an iPhone, but back in 2013 Apple had a network crash and people couldn't use iMessage or text for several hours regardless of their service providers. 
> 
> My suggestion to you is to try requesting a software update in the settings, or plug your phone and tablet into the computer and it should prompt you to update. If these options don't work, you can press the hold button and home button simultaneously for 10 seconds and reset your phone, which will disconnect and reconnect if from all networks and re-load signals. I hope this helps. 
> 
> Meaghan 
> 
> Meaghan Roper
> Earl Center for Learning
> And Innovation
> ECA Associate
> Admissions Ambassador for Wheelock College
> President of Wheelock Student Theater 
> Vice President of the Nerd & Gaming Association of Wheelock College
> Wheelock College Class of 2018
> ropermeaghan at gmail.com
> 781-315-2720
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 9:37 PM, Sami Osborne via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all,
>> 
>> So I have both an iPad and an iPhone, and heard that IOS 9 came out today, however I never received any notifications on either devices telling me to update the software, nor do I see anything in software update settings.  What's going on? Are there still issues that need to be resolved and that is the reason for the delay in the release? Also, I have proof of this fact; my friend Bryant is on the Apple beta testing team, and he confirmed that IOS 9 came out today.  Is what he told me correct?
>> 
>> I'm not being rude in inquiring this, I just think it's really strange that people are saying the new version is coming out today, but I haven't received anthing from my own devices.  What is happening?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Sami
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ropermeaghan%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com

From jfranks at nfbtx.org  Thu Sep 17 05:23:47 2015
From: jfranks at nfbtx.org (Jonathan Franks)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 00:23:47 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] IOS 9 not released yet?
In-Reply-To: <4E0C6065-866C-4A00-A15C-FE18497DDCFA@gmail.com>
References: <0NUS00JX3SJUZO40@vms173025.mailsrvcs.net>
	<8AE32691-9F0E-4905-B856-EB7FA3C44174@gmail.com>
	<4E0C6065-866C-4A00-A15C-FE18497DDCFA@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <67C0508E-4394-479A-99AA-9C7279D2E0F9@nfbtx.org>

It has been released. It will show up soon.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 17, 2015, at 12:09 AM, Helga Schreiber via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Sami! How are you? when I go to my software update on my iPhone it shows that I have the IOS 9 Software available! So I think is already on your iPhone in the software update inside general man! Check it now or whenever you have a chance man! Hope this helps man! I oook forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks and God bless!
> 
> Helga Schreiber 
> 
> Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
> Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
> Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
> Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
> Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com 
> Skype: helga.schreiber26 
> 4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
> INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 
> 
> "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
> Sent from my iPhone 
> 
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 9:49 PM, Roper, Meaghan via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi Sami, 
>> 
>> I have an update available on my iPad but not my iPhone. Sometimes Apple is slow with releases for all their products and it may be a network issue on their end. Even though you may be on wifi or a data service from your phone or cable provider, Apple's networking signal can be faulty. I'm not sure how long you've had an iPhone, but back in 2013 Apple had a network crash and people couldn't use iMessage or text for several hours regardless of their service providers. 
>> 
>> My suggestion to you is to try requesting a software update in the settings, or plug your phone and tablet into the computer and it should prompt you to update. If these options don't work, you can press the hold button and home button simultaneously for 10 seconds and reset your phone, which will disconnect and reconnect if from all networks and re-load signals. I hope this helps. 
>> 
>> Meaghan 
>> 
>> Meaghan Roper
>> Earl Center for Learning
>> And Innovation
>> ECA Associate
>> Admissions Ambassador for Wheelock College
>> President of Wheelock Student Theater 
>> Vice President of the Nerd & Gaming Association of Wheelock College
>> Wheelock College Class of 2018
>> ropermeaghan at gmail.com
>> 781-315-2720
>> 
>>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 9:37 PM, Sami Osborne via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> So I have both an iPad and an iPhone, and heard that IOS 9 came out today, however I never received any notifications on either devices telling me to update the software, nor do I see anything in software update settings.  What's going on? Are there still issues that need to be resolved and that is the reason for the delay in the release? Also, I have proof of this fact; my friend Bryant is on the Apple beta testing team, and he confirmed that IOS 9 came out today.  Is what he told me correct?
>>> 
>>> I'm not being rude in inquiring this, I just think it's really strange that people are saying the new version is coming out today, but I haven't received anthing from my own devices.  What is happening?
>>> 
>>> Thanks,
>>> 
>>> Sami
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/ropermeaghan%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jfranks%40nfbtx.org


From wmodnl at hotmail.com  Thu Sep 17 05:39:43 2015
From: wmodnl at hotmail.com (wmodnl wmodnl)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 01:39:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Kindle application on IOS:
In-Reply-To: <1997857872.331041.1442423480327.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <SNT407-EAS13855605E70102B85DC0B45DC5B0@phx.gbl>
	<1997857872.331041.1442423480327.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <SNT407-EAS227D2C8936DDE4D2EAA03E0DC5A0@phx.gbl>


Hi, I found another resource that maybe able to help with the use of the app.
So, you have been able to use the app without Voiceover? Does the app have a built-in speech program?
http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw140602
I found it to be even more user-friendly once I tweaked the settings a bit.  Have a good evening. I hope this helps.
So here is one final thought on this whole thing. Instead of pushing for the Kindle device to be accessible, maybe groups should push for the accommodation to be approved that, students who are required to use physical kindles with disabilities, can use the app with the books they need. Maybe that would have better results?


Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:11 PM, kcj21 <kcj21 at bellsouth.net> wrote:
> 
> I've used the kindle app a few times and have found that you can stopping using voiceover and the app will remember what page you were on , so you can just turn on voiceover when you want to continue reading it will just continue from where you left off. I did however, have trouble purchasing ebooks on the ios app. You can get a free sample, but I haven't quite figured out how to buy the book through the app. If anyone has figured this out, please let me know.
> 
> Best,
> Kaley
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday, September 16, 2015 2:32 AM, wmodnl wmodnl via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello has anyone used the Kindle app? If so, what are your thoughts or tricks to make it work?
> It is interesting I find downloading books to it to be pretty easy with the Kindle app store website but the app itself will just read continuously with voiceover. I guess it's maybe not so good to have if you need to read something like a textbook. If I remember correctly it is actually improved over the years.
> Have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kcj21%40bellsouth.net
> 
> 

From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 17 13:33:29 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 09:33:29 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] An Update on my Independence
Message-ID: <55fac146.8680810a.d9208.7618@mx.google.com>

Dear Students,

I would like to give you an update on my independence.  Yesterday 
I scheduled my exams online without assistance from my private 
tutor.  I was able to log into the system and schedule them using 
my IPad.  This is a small step toward improving my independence.


From hbwilliams16 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 00:40:01 2015
From: hbwilliams16 at gmail.com (Hindley Williams)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 20:40:01 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] State Updates for the September Edition of NABS Notes
Message-ID: <7F0AF805-3AAD-47DC-9303-D1807E6B7064@gmail.com>

Hello, Fellow Students, 
I hope you all are having an enjoyable week. It is that time once again to write up any state student division updates that your student division wants to share with the NABS community. If your state division would like to include any updates or announcements in the September edition of NABS Notes, please send them to me no later than Thursday, September 24. Feel free to send them along to: hbwilliams16 at gmail.com . I am looking forward to reading about what your student division has been up to! 
All Best, 
Hindley        

   

From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 01:03:15 2015
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 18:03:15 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] A Guide for helping students with visual disabilities
In-Reply-To: <7442E5B3-09BE-45A0-B0CF-892D89CA22BF@gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avcjirkWBuWV82Yrg-jBUcyBVX7M-WV6sZLJwpe4YDR6og@mail.gmail.com>
	<7442E5B3-09BE-45A0-B0CF-892D89CA22BF@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJCQPaU35t=r3vLSWZV7NbkS6qui=7jvpZ43TZVUc1XLvA@mail.gmail.com>

I didn't get the chance to read through the whole thing but the
editing and writing style are just kind of weird. It's embarrassing
that a document supposedly written by big names in disability access
and someone from AFB would totally miss the definition of legal
blindness. The writing also seemed kind of cobbled together like how
many of those E-how and Wiki-how articles look. Is there a place to
send feedback?
The information overall was fairly good but I always get a little
annoyed by resources that focus on the hardships and accommodations
needed by blind college students without giving equal attention to all
the successes that blind students have had and continue to achieve. I
would have wanted to see a list of majors that blind students have
completed, for example.
Best, Arielle

On 9/16/15, Darian Smith via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi all:
>   I think this resource gave some good tips on doing your due diligence   on
> a person’s rights and responsibilities as a student at the school you are
> looking at potentially attending.  It also gave some good tips in regards to
> communicating with professors early and often.  I also liked  that this
> resource suggests getting involved on your campus with different clubs and
> groups as this is a great thing to do blind or not.
>  I do appreciate the frequent mention of the National Federation of the
> Blind and  as a former board member this division i love the mention of The
> National  Association of  Blind Students as a resource  because we here are
> a great   resource for any student starting  college and matriculating
> through the system.
>  I can tell that they did some research without doing a great amount of
> exhaustive research and so some of the resources were lacking.  I would have
> loved to see more  first-hand knowledge  being shared from students
> regarding different ways they’ve succeeded in college including visual and
> non-visual means and how one can work with/without voc rehab/disabled
> students offices.
>  At the same time, if we  don’t like the resource we can either not use it
> or create one that we like. On the whole I personally think it was a good
> resource, but not great.
>   Darian    .
>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Ok so further issues with the tools
>> They completely left off screen magnification, large print
>> The put magnifier under low vision but no legally blind
>> They have Braille translation software for legally blind but not totally
>> blind
>>
>> The site really needs to be completely revamped
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Julie McGinnity via nabs-l <
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi fellow Nabsters,
>>>
>>> If you are wishing for reading material to kick off your
>>> procrastination time, check this out.  It's a guide that is currently
>>> being advertised to universities around the country.  It's a bit of a
>>> long read, but this is what colleges and universities may put on their
>>> sites.  What would you think if this guide was going on your
>>> university's website?  For those interested, there is a list of
>>> scholarships towards the bottom.  Also, has anyone in NABS or the
>>> division itself ever developed a guide like this or any list of tips
>>> for incoming college students.  Anyway, I'll stop rambling and post
>>> the link below:
>>>
>>> http://www.accreditedschoolsonline.org/resources/helping-students-with-visual-impairments/
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Julie McGinnity
>>> National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
>>> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division vice
>>> president,
>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
>>> graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
>>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
>>> 2 Cor. 7
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From kaybaycar at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 04:30:46 2015
From: kaybaycar at gmail.com (Julie McGinnity)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2015 23:30:46 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A Guide for helping students with visual disabilities
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJCQPaU35t=r3vLSWZV7NbkS6qui=7jvpZ43TZVUc1XLvA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAHox4DJZjUsFgPkvGSEM95ODzHf_quwcKAvq-QSvzsqGS66H0A@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF=_avcjirkWBuWV82Yrg-jBUcyBVX7M-WV6sZLJwpe4YDR6og@mail.gmail.com>
	<7442E5B3-09BE-45A0-B0CF-892D89CA22BF@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJCQPaU35t=r3vLSWZV7NbkS6qui=7jvpZ43TZVUc1XLvA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAHox4DKQd2gLACZLpO9g6qZcGHa_QPuQWTujyA7SAhjB33-b_A@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Arielle,

I am keeping up with the original thread in which this was shared.
According to the original poster, the contact form is... wait for it,
yep, inaccessible to people using screenreaders.  On top of that,
there are color contrast and minor, easily-fixable keyboard
accessibility issues with the webpage.

I agree with you about the writing style and kind of felt bad on
behalf of the ACB.  I think the NFB was refered to as "for the blind"
once too.  I also found it interesting that the AFB and Learning Ally
scholarships weren't mentioned as they are two of the more popular
scholarships in the blindness world.

Although I realize that there are times that extra time to complete
assignments and exams is necessary, I didn't like the emphasis placed
on the need for that accomidation.  That is certainly not my greatest
struggle as a blind student.  I like the list of majors idea.  Since
access to information is essential for students, I would also like to
see something about accessible formats or at least encouragement to
soon-to-be college students to learn about which formats work for them
as learners.

When I'm at work next week, I'll contact the person who originally
posted this on the other list and see if she has an email address or a
work-around for the contact form.

On 9/17/15, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> I didn't get the chance to read through the whole thing but the
> editing and writing style are just kind of weird. It's embarrassing
> that a document supposedly written by big names in disability access
> and someone from AFB would totally miss the definition of legal
> blindness. The writing also seemed kind of cobbled together like how
> many of those E-how and Wiki-how articles look. Is there a place to
> send feedback?
> The information overall was fairly good but I always get a little
> annoyed by resources that focus on the hardships and accommodations
> needed by blind college students without giving equal attention to all
> the successes that blind students have had and continue to achieve. I
> would have wanted to see a list of majors that blind students have
> completed, for example.
> Best, Arielle
>
> On 9/16/15, Darian Smith via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hi all:
>>   I think this resource gave some good tips on doing your due diligence
>> on
>> a person’s rights and responsibilities as a student at the school you are
>> looking at potentially attending.  It also gave some good tips in regards
>> to
>> communicating with professors early and often.  I also liked  that this
>> resource suggests getting involved on your campus with different clubs and
>> groups as this is a great thing to do blind or not.
>>  I do appreciate the frequent mention of the National Federation of the
>> Blind and  as a former board member this division i love the mention of
>> The
>> National  Association of  Blind Students as a resource  because we here
>> are
>> a great   resource for any student starting  college and matriculating
>> through the system.
>>  I can tell that they did some research without doing a great amount of
>> exhaustive research and so some of the resources were lacking.  I would
>> have
>> loved to see more  first-hand knowledge  being shared from students
>> regarding different ways they’ve succeeded in college including visual and
>> non-visual means and how one can work with/without voc rehab/disabled
>> students offices.
>>  At the same time, if we  don’t like the resource we can either not use it
>> or create one that we like. On the whole I personally think it was a good
>> resource, but not great.
>>   Darian    .
>>> On Sep 16, 2015, at 1:46 PM, Suzanne Germano via nabs-l
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Ok so further issues with the tools
>>> They completely left off screen magnification, large print
>>> The put magnifier under low vision but no legally blind
>>> They have Braille translation software for legally blind but not totally
>>> blind
>>>
>>> The site really needs to be completely revamped
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 16, 2015 at 12:06 PM, Julie McGinnity via nabs-l <
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi fellow Nabsters,
>>>>
>>>> If you are wishing for reading material to kick off your
>>>> procrastination time, check this out.  It's a guide that is currently
>>>> being advertised to universities around the country.  It's a bit of a
>>>> long read, but this is what colleges and universities may put on their
>>>> sites.  What would you think if this guide was going on your
>>>> university's website?  For those interested, there is a list of
>>>> scholarships towards the bottom.  Also, has anyone in NABS or the
>>>> division itself ever developed a guide like this or any list of tips
>>>> for incoming college students.  Anyway, I'll stop rambling and post
>>>> the link below:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.accreditedschoolsonline.org/resources/helping-students-with-visual-impairments/
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Julie McGinnity
>>>> National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
>>>> National Federation of the Blind performing arts division vice
>>>> president,
>>>> Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
>>>> graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
>>>> "For we walk by faith, not by sight"
>>>> 2 Cor. 7
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nabs-l:
>>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sgermano%40asu.edu
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
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>>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
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-- 
Julie McGinnity
National Federation of the Blind of Missouri second vice president,
National Federation of the Blind performing arts division secretary,
Missouri Association of Guide dog Users President
graduate, Guiding Eyes for the Blind 2008, 2014
"For we walk by faith, not by sight"
2 Cor. 7


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 07:40:42 2015
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 03:40:42 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
Message-ID: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
as I would like to do.  Chapter presidents in both cities at different
times have told me I should join and even consider running for a board
position, which I will not do because of my inability to faithfully
attend the meetings.  One of the two chapters gets this a little
better than the other now, and has pretty much given me a "come when
you can, we'd love to have you when we can get you here," reception.
The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.

This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
have had difficulty in getting there.

I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
of undergrad.

I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
president would like to see join the chapter.

Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
accessible to them into consideration.
-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"


From zumbagecko at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 17:27:34 2015
From: zumbagecko at gmail.com (petras)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:27:34 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] can't update ios 9
Message-ID: <55fc49a3.8a41420a.93edc.ffffd0f4@mx.google.com>

Hi, I'm having trouble updating my ipad to ios 9.  I go into 
software updates and tab down with my braillenote apex and it's 
just blank, like the screen is black.  I tab down, but nothing.  
Anyway around this? It looks like they fixed the issue after ios 
9.  But I'm still in 844.


From zumbagecko at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 17:27:36 2015
From: zumbagecko at gmail.com (petras)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 10:27:36 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] activating automatic updates
Message-ID: <55fc49a6.8a41420a.93edc.ffffd0f7@mx.google.com>

Hi, I learned that there is a new feature for software updates 
where it will update automatically after ios 9.  Like you can 
update it at night.  How do I activate this feature?


From burke.ashley1 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 20:47:59 2015
From: burke.ashley1 at gmail.com (Ashley R. Burke)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:47:59 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Fwd: ALERT!--Cogswell-Macy Bill Introduced!
In-Reply-To: <AFBDEVWEB1M3SOlbpH700001845@afb.net>
References: <AFBDEVWEB1M3SOlbpH700001845@afb.net>
Message-ID: <CAMuWA514oTkS3cAsohAZehCbPSKXGpMUutJCDvhj7AeWDb=uaQ@mail.gmail.com>

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: AFB DirectConnect <mrichert at afb.net>
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 15:23:32 -0400
Subject: ALERT!--Cogswell-Macy Bill Introduced!
To: AFB Subscriber <afbweb at afb.net>

				
 AFB DirectConnect Letterhead
	    	
	

ALERT!--Cogswell-Macy Bill Introduced!
Comprehensive Special Education Legislation for
Blind/Visually Impaired, Deaf/Hard of Hearing, and Deafblind Students

H.R. 3535: The Alice Cogswell and Anne Sullivan Macy Act

"Our students will thrive - with Thirty-five Thirty-five!"

Follow this link to read this edition of DirectConnect online:
http://www.afb.org/info/programs-and-services/public-policy-center/direc
tconnect- newsletter/cogswell-macy-bill-introduced/1235
<http://www.afb.org/info/programs-and-services/public-policy-center/dire
ctconnect-newsletter/cogswell-  macy-bill-introduced/1235>

For further information, contact:

Mark Richert, Esq.
Director, Public Policy, AFB
(202) 469-6833
MRichert at afb.net <mailto:mrichert at afb.net>



Dear colleagues, friends and fellow advocates for students with
disabilities:

Yesterday, following impressive, dedicated advocacy across the sensory
impairments communities, the most comprehensive legislation to enhance
and reform America's special education system for students with
vision/hearing disabilities and deafblindness has been introduced. H.R.
3535, the Alice Cogswell and Anne Sullivan Macy Act, once enacted, will
ensure that: every child who is deaf, every child who is blind, and
every child who is deafblind, regardless of whether they have additional
disabilities, will be properly counted and served; each of a child's
unique learning needs will be properly evaluated; states will engage in
strategic planning to be sure that they can in fact meet each child's
specialized needs; the U.S. Department of Education will do its part to
hold states and schools accountable; students with sensory disabilities
will be served by qualified personnel; and students who are blind will
receive state-of-the-art services and skills supported through a new
major national collaborative initiative addressing their unique learning
needs.

Introduced by Reps. Matt Cartwright (D-PA) and David McKinley (R-WV),
H.R. 3535 is named for Anne Sullivan, Helen Keller's beloved teacher;
and Alice Cogswell, the first deaf girl to be educated in a school for
the deaf in the United States. Originally introduced in the previous
Congress as H.R. 4040, this updated version of the Cogswell-Macy Act
includes additional language to support students who are deafblind.
Advocates for students who are blind/visually impaired,
deaf/hard-of-hearing, and deafblind have worked tirelessly with
legislators to compose three strong, parallel titles within the Act,
addressing the needs of students in these three sensory- disability
areas.

Read below for the press release from Rep. Cartwright's office, and read
the complete text of the Cogswell-Macy Act on the AFB Policy Center
website at the following link:
http://www.afb.org/info/get-involved/take-action/complete-text-of-macy-a
ct/125
<http://www.afb.org/info/get-involved/take-action/complete-text-of-macy-
act/125>

Advocates are urged to contact your member of the U.S. House of
Representatives to ask him/her to cosponsor H.R. 3535 today!

Learn how to contact your Representative at the following link:
AFB.org/CogswellMacyAct <http://www.afb.org/cogswellmacyact>

Tell your Representative that by cosponsoring, he/she will be helping to
make history by ensuring that America's special education system is
worthy of the enormous potential of every child who is blind, visually
impaired, deaf, hard of hearing, or deafblind. This year, 2015, is the
40th anniversary of Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA).
Tell your Representative that by joining in this campaign, they will
help us transform a forty-year-old system from one that has broken down
barriers into a system that finally ensures that kids with sensory
disabilities will receiving the education and supports they need to
thrive in our nation's classrooms!

Advocates should stay tuned to this newsletter and to
www.AFB.org/MacyAct <http://www.afb.org/macyact>  for more information
and regular updates as the Cogswell-Macy Act progresses. Thank you for
your advocacy for children and youth with sensory disabilities!

Press Release [9/17/2015]:

Feel free to link to or share this Press Release, which is posted online
at the following link:
http://www.afb.org/community/announcements/reps-cartwright-mckinley-cham
pion-comprehensive-
bipartisan-legislation-to-transform-special-education-for-students-with-
sensory-disabilities/12
<http://www.afb.org/community/announcements/reps-cartwright-mckinley-cha
mpion-comprehensive-bipartisan-
legislation-to-transform-special-education-for-students-with-sensory-
disabilities/12>

Rep. Cartwright's office has posted this release at the following link:
http://cartwright.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/reps-cartwright-
mckinley- champion-comprehensive-bipartisan-legislation
<http://cartwright.house.gov/media-center/press-releases/reps-cartwright
-mckinley-champion-comprehensive-  bipartisan-legislation>


Reps. Cartwright, McKinley Champion Comprehensive Bipartisan Legislation
to Transform Special Education for Students with Sensory Disabilities


Washington, DC – Today U.S. Congressmen Matt Cartwright (D-PA, 17) and
David McKinley (R-WV, 1) introduced the bipartisan Alice Cogswell and
Anne Sullivan Macy Act (H.R. 3535), named for two pioneers in the
education of deaf and blind students. This landmark legislation would
dramatically improve educational results for students who are deaf, hard
of hearing, blind, visually impaired, or deafblind.

In 1975, Congress enacted America's federal special education law known
today as the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), and the
Cogswell-Macy Act would amend and modernize IDEA to address the largely
unmet unique needs of students with sensory disabilities. The bill
would: ensure that students with vision and/or hearing disabilities are
properly identified, evaluated and served, especially when they may have
additional disabilities; guarantee that students with sensory
disabilities are provided with the full array of special education and
related services they must have to truly receive a free and appropriate
public education; promote and support teachers and associated
professionals who are critical to the delivery of such services; and
hold all levels of our public education system accountable for these
expectations.

“Upwards of 350,000 students are deaf or hard of hearing, and an
estimated 100,000 have blindness or vision loss. Yet less than one-third
of those students are reported as having those needs under IDEA. That is
completely unacceptable,” Rep. Cartwright said. “This legislation would
ensure that students who are deaf, hard of hearing blind, visually
impaired, or deaf-blind receive an equal and appropriate education and
have access to vital services. I look forward to working with my
colleagues to guarantee that all children can succeed and achieve their
potential.”

“Americans have made great strides since 1975 toward improving the lives
of children dealing with hearing and sight disabilities but there is
still more work to be done. We need to ensure the nearly-half a million
kids with these disabilities have the same opportunity as other children
to learn and develop skills. This is a common sense step to ensure we
are helping these children,” Rep. McKinley said.

The American Foundation for the Blind and Conference of Educational
Administrators of Schools and Programs for the Deaf have endorsed the
Cogswell-Macy Act, along with more than 100 other leading national,
regional and community-based organizations.

“The introduction of this bill represents a momentous step toward the
transformation of this country’s special education system in a manner
that will truly allow for students who are blind or visually impaired to
succeed in a twenty-first century classroom.” said Kim Charlson,
president of the American Council of the Blind (ACB). "The Cogswell-Macy
Act is the most significant national proposal to improve education for
students who are deafblind we've seen in decades," said Mussie Gebre,
President of the national consumer advocacy group, DeafBlind Citizens in
Action (DBCA). "When America's deafblind children and youth have their
unique communications and learning needs fully met, are provided with
essential supports such as intervener services, and are empowered by our
national education system to rise to their full potential, well then
just you look out because they're on their way to achieve great things.
Just watch us and see for yourself!"

"Our national special education law has been a success at getting kids
with disabilities into their neighborhood schools, but what we haven't
done yet is to make sure that students with vision loss get the
education they deserve once they get in the schoolhouse door," said Mark
Richert, Director of Public Policy for the American Foundation for the
Blind. "We've waited forty years, and we're not waiting another forty to
give kids who are blind or visually impaired an education that is worthy
of their tremendous potential. That's why the Cogswell- Macy Act is
imperative."

"We expect that the passage of the Cogswell-Macy Act will rectify years
of misapplication of IDEA for deaf and hard of hearing children
everywhere. Deaf and hard of hearing children continue to experience
language and academic delays because their educational environments are
not optimal or even conducive to their learning," said James E. Tucker,
Superintendent of the Maryland School for the Deaf and President of the
Conference of Educational Administrators of Schools and Programs for the
Deaf. "Every student's Individualized Education Program needs to be
student-driven and focused on the child's language, cognitive, and
social development."

NAD President Chris Wagner stated “Every deaf or hard of hearing child
deserves access to a quality education, and this Act will be an
important step towards reminding states of their accountability
regarding deaf, hard of hearing, blind, deafblind, and visually impaired
children’s needs.”

Rep. Matt Cartwright represents Pennsylvania’s 17th Congressional
District, which includes Schuylkill County and portions of Carbon,
Lackawanna, Luzerne, Monroe, and Northampton Counties. Cartwright serves
on the House Committee on Natural Resources and the House Committee on
Oversight and Government Reform.

You can unsubscribe at any time. To remove your name from this mailing
list, or to find out what other newsletters are available from AFB,
visit http://www.afb.org/myafbnewsletter.aspx.


From dandrews at visi.com  Fri Sep 18 21:30:48 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:30:48 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.g
	mail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <auto-000037067626@mailfront1.g2host.com>

I don't think anyone who knows you would question your commitment to 
the Federation.  And ... this isn't a matter of being right or wrong 
for anyone -- or it shouldn't be.

Can you talk to your State President, maybe he can get the difficult 
local President to back down a little, and accept things as they are.

Dave

At 02:40 AM 9/18/2015, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
>as I would like to do.  Chapter presidents in both cities at different
>times have told me I should join and even consider running for a board
>position, which I will not do because of my inability to faithfully
>attend the meetings.  One of the two chapters gets this a little
>better than the other now, and has pretty much given me a "come when
>you can, we'd love to have you when we can get you here," reception.
>The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>
>This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
>have had difficulty in getting there.
>
>I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>of undergrad.
>
>I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>president would like to see join the chapter.
>
>Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>accessible to them into consideration.
>--
>Kaiti Shelton
>University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>Division 2015-2016
>
>"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 22:08:09 2015
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:08:09 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <BF60AAFA-A475-47D8-A01B-ABE1C3E63A21@gmail.com>

Kaiti, 
 As a former chapter president I can understand where the chapter president is probably coming from.  From the presidents standpoint,   It is completely possible that while what you are saying is a very valid line of reasoning for your situation, it may be an excuse for other students in your situation and that he has gotten that excuse a time or two before. 
It can be difficult to decipher win someone really wants to be involved in the Federation and when someone might not want involvement or a particular level of involvement. 
It is possible that in the mind of the chapter president 1 o'clock in the afternoon ought not to be an inaccessible time for most people because in their mind it isn't too early in the morning to ask people to wait, too late to interfere with peoples social plans, but not over the week after peoples work schedule. 

It is also possible that the majority of the chapter likes this date and will just rather keep it. 

Moving on from that standpoint,  I think that anytime that you can make a chapter meeting is better then not making a chapter meeting at all because of the opportunity to connect in person with like-minded blind folks. 
If you have a good connection with someone in the chapter or someone in the affiliate that knows this chapter president well enough, maybe it might be useful to have a conversation with the three of you together.   I think that once they come to understand your situation, it would make for a healthier environment where both of you knows that each of your concerns is being understood. 
I very much appreciate what you are sharing and truly hope that something positive comes this situation. Organizing chapter meetings at times that would work for everyone is not easy to do and making the time to get  out to the meeting when you have a busy schedule as a student isn't easy either. 
 
Sometimes it's moving the meeting, sometimes it's organizing another meeting at a different time, sometimes it's organizing or joining an at-large chapter.  
Whatever the case, the most important thing is to get good people to become involved in local chapters so that we can support, encourage, challenge each other and to raise the expectations of the blind in our local communities where the need is greatest.    

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
> prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
> trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
> in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
> way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
> as I would like to do.  Chapter presidents in both cities at different
> times have told me I should join and even consider running for a board
> position, which I will not do because of my inability to faithfully
> attend the meetings.  One of the two chapters gets this a little
> better than the other now, and has pretty much given me a "come when
> you can, we'd love to have you when we can get you here," reception.
> The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
> president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
> things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
> attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
> opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
> can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
> and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
> 
> This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
> confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
> chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
> dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
> in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
> what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
> difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
> they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
> nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
> and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
> something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
> scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
> part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
> attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
> giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
> extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
> music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
> lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
> ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
> scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
> change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
> have had difficulty in getting there.
> 
> I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
> double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
> tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
> isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
> cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
> would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
> understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
> students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
> classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
> weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
> students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
> engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
> networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
> long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
> mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
> want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
> of undergrad.
> 
> I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
> to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
> and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
> isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
> day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
> chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
> they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
> people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
> the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
> president would like to see join the chapter.
> 
> Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
> am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
> chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
> Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
> outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
> prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
> projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
> these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
> push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
> because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
> fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
> tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
> home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
> 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
> already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
> right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
> contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
> when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
> if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
> accessible to them into consideration.
> -- 
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
> Division 2015-2016
> 
> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com


From arielle71 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 23:18:57 2015
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 16:18:57 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <BF60AAFA-A475-47D8-A01B-ABE1C3E63A21@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BF60AAFA-A475-47D8-A01B-ABE1C3E63A21@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJA16+1q7h6LrjV3i1V+BCYzeSrYmTBzp5otXYYZuSRdJg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti and all,
I believe that there are many different ways to be involved and levels
of involvement in the NFB, and it's not necessary to consistently
attend one local chapter to be a part of the organization. In fact,
when I was in graduate school, I stopped attending my local chapter
meetings for about a year and a half because they were held on
Thursday evenings at a place on the end of town that was not very
conveniently accessible from campus (it was a good place for chapter
members whose workplace was at this location). The meetings also
coincided with dinnertime and food was not served at this location so
I would either have to pick up food on the way over or not eat until
very late. During my first year of graduate school I did attend these
meetings, but after my second year when I was teaching a Thursday
afternoon class, working on master's research and serving as NABS
president I stopped attending. It was technically possible for me to
attend but just a very inconvenient time and location for me then. I
felt kind of guilty about this, but also knew that I was putting a lot
of time into my other NFB duties within NABS and our state's student
division. Eventually the meeting was moved to Saturday mornings at a
place that was much more accessible by bus. I came back and was
elected to the chapter board later that year. Notably, while I
returned, some other chapter members left because the new time and
location no longer fit their schedules. So the point of this is that
it is impossible for the chapter to find a time and location that
suits everyone. Have you suggested to the chapter president other days
and times when you would be able to participate? It isn't obvious to
me when a good time would be for students, and in fact, I would have
thought Saturday afternoons would be ideal for students (it worked for
me when I was in college, but I didn't have a job or a fraternity
commitment). If you are in contact with some students locally who
might want to join the chapter, perhaps you could poll their schedules
and then suggest some alternative times to the president, who may just
not know what times are best for you and others.
I do think there is a deeper issue in this post however, which is how
do ambitious students balance the NFB with school, jobs and
extracurricular activities? It is a tough question, and our student
divisions regularly lose some would-be great leaders because these
individuals are simply too busy with other things. I do think we need
to welcome those members who only have a few hours each month to give
to the organization or who prefer to serve on only one level (only
locally, or only nationally, or only in one special-interest division,
etc.) There are simply a limited number of hours in each day, and
everyone has their own personal set of priorities that dictate how
many hours they can give to each major project in their lives. I would
welcome other thoughts on this.
Arielle

On 9/18/15, Darian via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Kaiti,
>  As a former chapter president I can understand where the chapter president
> is probably coming from.  From the presidents standpoint,   It is completely
> possible that while what you are saying is a very valid line of reasoning
> for your situation, it may be an excuse for other students in your situation
> and that he has gotten that excuse a time or two before.
> It can be difficult to decipher win someone really wants to be involved in
> the Federation and when someone might not want involvement or a particular
> level of involvement.
> It is possible that in the mind of the chapter president 1 o'clock in the
> afternoon ought not to be an inaccessible time for most people because in
> their mind it isn't too early in the morning to ask people to wait, too late
> to interfere with peoples social plans, but not over the week after peoples
> work schedule.
>
> It is also possible that the majority of the chapter likes this date and
> will just rather keep it.
>
> Moving on from that standpoint,  I think that anytime that you can make a
> chapter meeting is better then not making a chapter meeting at all because
> of the opportunity to connect in person with like-minded blind folks.
> If you have a good connection with someone in the chapter or someone in the
> affiliate that knows this chapter president well enough, maybe it might be
> useful to have a conversation with the three of you together.   I think that
> once they come to understand your situation, it would make for a healthier
> environment where both of you knows that each of your concerns is being
> understood.
> I very much appreciate what you are sharing and truly hope that something
> positive comes this situation. Organizing chapter meetings at times that
> would work for everyone is not easy to do and making the time to get  out to
> the meeting when you have a busy schedule as a student isn't easy either.
>
> Sometimes it's moving the meeting, sometimes it's organizing another meeting
> at a different time, sometimes it's organizing or joining an at-large
> chapter.
> Whatever the case, the most important thing is to get good people to become
> involved in local chapters so that we can support, encourage, challenge each
> other and to raise the expectations of the blind in our local communities
> where the need is greatest.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Sep 18, 2015, at 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>> prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>> trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>> in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>> way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
>> as I would like to do.  Chapter presidents in both cities at different
>> times have told me I should join and even consider running for a board
>> position, which I will not do because of my inability to faithfully
>> attend the meetings.  One of the two chapters gets this a little
>> better than the other now, and has pretty much given me a "come when
>> you can, we'd love to have you when we can get you here," reception.
>> The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>> president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>> things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>> attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>> opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>> can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>> and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>>
>> This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>> confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>> chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>> dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>> in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>> what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>> difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>> they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>> nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>> and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>> something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>> scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>> part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>> attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>> giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>> extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>> music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>> lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>> ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>> scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>> change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
>> have had difficulty in getting there.
>>
>> I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>> double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>> tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>> isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>> cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>> would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>> understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>> students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>> classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>> weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>> students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>> engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>> networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>> long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>> mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>> want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>> of undergrad.
>>
>> I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>> to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>> and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>> isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>> day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>> chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>> they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>> people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>> the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>> president would like to see join the chapter.
>>
>> Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>> am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>> chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>> Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>> outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>> prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>> projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>> these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>> push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>> because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>> fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>> tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>> home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>> 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>> already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>> right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>> contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>> when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>> if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>> accessible to them into consideration.
>> --
>> Kaiti Shelton
>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>> Division 2015-2016
>>
>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Fri Sep 18 23:25:47 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 19:25:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
Message-ID: <55fc9d9a.0131810a.53156.ffffb1da@mx.google.com>

Hi Arielle I agree with you.  It is very difficult quite me to 
get involved in my student division for the Nfb because of my 
school schedule.  I have tried talking to the Fabs president who 
told me that I have to be there to voie my opinion about having 
the meeting on a different day.


From carlos.montas at att.net  Fri Sep 18 23:26:24 2015
From: carlos.montas at att.net (Carlos Montas)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 19:26:24 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <CALAYQJA16+1q7h6LrjV3i1V+BCYzeSrYmTBzp5otXYYZuSRdJg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<BF60AAFA-A475-47D8-A01B-ABE1C3E63A21@gmail.com>
	<CALAYQJA16+1q7h6LrjV3i1V+BCYzeSrYmTBzp5otXYYZuSRdJg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <2ED9B614-C31E-4440-B390-2EC2D2819DC6@att.net>

Good afternoon Chaue. Arielle I could not of said it any better. For example are used to be really involved with our state of Florida student division now that I have a full-time job, and I'm graduate school it's extremely difficult for me to attend the chapter meetings. So I've decided to be involved with one or two things within the NFB for example the national Association of guy dog users and or the human services division. Good post.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 18, 2015, at 7:18 PM, Arielle Silverman via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi Kaiti and all,
> I believe that there are many different ways to be involved and levels
> of involvement in the NFB, and it's not necessary to consistently
> attend one local chapter to be a part of the organization. In fact,
> when I was in graduate school, I stopped attending my local chapter
> meetings for about a year and a half because they were held on
> Thursday evenings at a place on the end of town that was not very
> conveniently accessible from campus (it was a good place for chapter
> members whose workplace was at this location). The meetings also
> coincided with dinnertime and food was not served at this location so
> I would either have to pick up food on the way over or not eat until
> very late. During my first year of graduate school I did attend these
> meetings, but after my second year when I was teaching a Thursday
> afternoon class, working on master's research and serving as NABS
> president I stopped attending. It was technically possible for me to
> attend but just a very inconvenient time and location for me then. I
> felt kind of guilty about this, but also knew that I was putting a lot
> of time into my other NFB duties within NABS and our state's student
> division. Eventually the meeting was moved to Saturday mornings at a
> place that was much more accessible by bus. I came back and was
> elected to the chapter board later that year. Notably, while I
> returned, some other chapter members left because the new time and
> location no longer fit their schedules. So the point of this is that
> it is impossible for the chapter to find a time and location that
> suits everyone. Have you suggested to the chapter president other days
> and times when you would be able to participate? It isn't obvious to
> me when a good time would be for students, and in fact, I would have
> thought Saturday afternoons would be ideal for students (it worked for
> me when I was in college, but I didn't have a job or a fraternity
> commitment). If you are in contact with some students locally who
> might want to join the chapter, perhaps you could poll their schedules
> and then suggest some alternative times to the president, who may just
> not know what times are best for you and others.
> I do think there is a deeper issue in this post however, which is how
> do ambitious students balance the NFB with school, jobs and
> extracurricular activities? It is a tough question, and our student
> divisions regularly lose some would-be great leaders because these
> individuals are simply too busy with other things. I do think we need
> to welcome those members who only have a few hours each month to give
> to the organization or who prefer to serve on only one level (only
> locally, or only nationally, or only in one special-interest division,
> etc.) There are simply a limited number of hours in each day, and
> everyone has their own personal set of priorities that dictate how
> many hours they can give to each major project in their lives. I would
> welcome other thoughts on this.
> Arielle
> 
>> On 9/18/15, Darian via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Kaiti,
>> As a former chapter president I can understand where the chapter president
>> is probably coming from.  From the presidents standpoint,   It is completely
>> possible that while what you are saying is a very valid line of reasoning
>> for your situation, it may be an excuse for other students in your situation
>> and that he has gotten that excuse a time or two before.
>> It can be difficult to decipher win someone really wants to be involved in
>> the Federation and when someone might not want involvement or a particular
>> level of involvement.
>> It is possible that in the mind of the chapter president 1 o'clock in the
>> afternoon ought not to be an inaccessible time for most people because in
>> their mind it isn't too early in the morning to ask people to wait, too late
>> to interfere with peoples social plans, but not over the week after peoples
>> work schedule.
>> 
>> It is also possible that the majority of the chapter likes this date and
>> will just rather keep it.
>> 
>> Moving on from that standpoint,  I think that anytime that you can make a
>> chapter meeting is better then not making a chapter meeting at all because
>> of the opportunity to connect in person with like-minded blind folks.
>> If you have a good connection with someone in the chapter or someone in the
>> affiliate that knows this chapter president well enough, maybe it might be
>> useful to have a conversation with the three of you together.   I think that
>> once they come to understand your situation, it would make for a healthier
>> environment where both of you knows that each of your concerns is being
>> understood.
>> I very much appreciate what you are sharing and truly hope that something
>> positive comes this situation. Organizing chapter meetings at times that
>> would work for everyone is not easy to do and making the time to get  out to
>> the meeting when you have a busy schedule as a student isn't easy either.
>> 
>> Sometimes it's moving the meeting, sometimes it's organizing another meeting
>> at a different time, sometimes it's organizing or joining an at-large
>> chapter.
>> Whatever the case, the most important thing is to get good people to become
>> involved in local chapters so that we can support, encourage, challenge each
>> other and to raise the expectations of the blind in our local communities
>> where the need is greatest.
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Sep 18, 2015, at 1:40 AM, Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi all,
>>> 
>>> I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>>> prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>>> trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>>> in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>>> way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
>>> as I would like to do.  Chapter presidents in both cities at different
>>> times have told me I should join and even consider running for a board
>>> position, which I will not do because of my inability to faithfully
>>> attend the meetings.  One of the two chapters gets this a little
>>> better than the other now, and has pretty much given me a "come when
>>> you can, we'd love to have you when we can get you here," reception.
>>> The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>>> president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>>> things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>>> attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>>> opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>>> can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>>> and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>>> 
>>> This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>>> confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>>> chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>>> dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>>> in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>>> what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>>> difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>>> they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>>> nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>>> and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>>> something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>>> scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>>> part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>>> attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>>> giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>>> extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>>> music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>>> lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>>> ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>>> scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>>> change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
>>> have had difficulty in getting there.
>>> 
>>> I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>>> double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>>> tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>>> isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>>> cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>>> would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>>> understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>>> students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>>> classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>>> weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>>> students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>>> engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>>> networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>>> long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>>> mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>>> want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>>> of undergrad.
>>> 
>>> I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>>> to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>>> and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>>> isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>>> day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>>> chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>>> they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>>> people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>>> the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>>> president would like to see join the chapter.
>>> 
>>> Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>>> am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>>> chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>>> Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>>> outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>>> prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>>> projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>>> these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>>> push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>>> because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>>> fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>>> tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>>> home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>>> 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>>> already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>>> right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>>> contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>>> when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>>> if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>>> accessible to them into consideration.
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
>>> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
>>> Division 2015-2016
>>> 
>>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/carlos.montas%40att.net


From jsoro620 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 03:17:18 2015
From: jsoro620 at gmail.com (Joe)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 2015 23:17:18 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>

Kaiti,

I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my time is
very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on a limited
basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do marketing for
my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger priority was me
organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered though I was to be
considered for the task, I knew I did not have the time to commit to get the
job done right. Could I gather a group of prospective members? Yes. Could I
whip them into a self-sustained group that would last beyond the first two
or three meetings? Not likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the
perfect meeting time for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good
leader at any level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone
could contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a
month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president here,
but another option worth considering is organizing a student group on campus
that would give you the flexibility to set a time that is both convenient
and a location that is accessible for you guys. Alternatively, perhaps there
is a chapter at-large in your affiliate that would allow you to remain
connected and involved in some capacity. Either way, I think it commendable
of you to be concerned enough to want to know how to stay active in the
organization. My final thought is that you could be at a season in your life
where NABS is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd be
sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating for. If
pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a productive
contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the second. That seems a
bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing disconnect between the older
generation and the younger membership.

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
via nabs-l
Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Kaiti Shelton
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters

Hi all,

I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm prepared for
that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm trying to explain
it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live in one city and attend
school in another, so there off the bat is no way I'd be able to attend
either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis as I would like to do.  Chapter
presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should join and
even consider running for a board position, which I will not do because of
my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of the two chapters
gets this a little better than the other now, and has pretty much given me a
"come when you can, we'd love to have you when we can get you here,"
reception.
The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter president
doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to things when I can,
but I partially dread it because every time I attend some social function
the floodgates for this conversation are opened again.  I'm told again that
I am needed in the chapter, that I can really make a difference, and if I
join more students will join and the chapter is not by any means comprised
of young people.

This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little confused
and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a chapter president,
especially because he knows I'm active and dedicated to the student
division, the affiliate, and other projects in the NFB, but being in that
older crowd I don't think he understands what it is like for students
anymore.  In my sophomore year I had difficulty attending chapter meetings
for a few reasons.  One was that they are on the first Saturday or the
month, which conflicts with nearly every break from school I have including
the two midterm breaks and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti
dinner is also something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is
always scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to attend
chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so giving work
wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up extra hours, not
throw them away.  I also have been in a professional music fraternity since
the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a lot of our major events
(recruitment events, initiations and pledging ceremonies, etc) happen on
Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to
mention the location is subject to change from place to place so students
can't plan for consistency, I have had difficulty in getting there.

I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I tell
him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time isn't very
accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should cancel work or do
what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it would benefit the
chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do understand personal
sacrifices can and should be made to an extent, students do not have as much
flexibility as working people to move classes around in the week, and there
are only so many hours in the weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are
a good thing for blind students to be involved in because it shows peers
that we can be engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also
creates networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which mine are
not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also want to experience
life as a student too in the year or so I have left of undergrad.

I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways to be
active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters, and I would
venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably isn't great for
most students since it's right in the middle of the day.  I did not send the
email I drafted, but I feel like if the chapter needs and wants students to
join as badly as they say they do, they need to make the meeting time more
accessible to that group of people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and
I think that is also the case for other highly-involved and motivated
students who the president would like to see join the chapter.

Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I am
open to anything at this point. I really would join the local chapter if it
were held at times that I could consistently attend.
Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events outside
of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've prooven to be
involved in the affiliate on committees and in other projects including
BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of these chapters isn't a
possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the push-back for my reasons
why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or because I don't want to go; I
think work conflicts and required fraternity events which I will only be
able to have for a year longer tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not
to mention that when I'm home traveling an hour to the meeting and then
another hour back home
2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am already
a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is right for me to do
so, and by that I mean when I can actively contribute in a stable and
dedicated way.  That will most likely come when I have a 40 hour work week
like the rest of the current chapter if they don't take their desire for
student members and what is accessible to them into consideration.
--
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The
National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com



From sandragayer7 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 07:07:11 2015
From: sandragayer7 at gmail.com (Sandra Gayer)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 08:07:11 +0100
Subject: [nabs-l] An Update on my Independence
In-Reply-To: <55fac146.8680810a.d9208.7618@mx.google.com>
References: <55fac146.8680810a.d9208.7618@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <CAJcYH68o=wbLW4QYPTH6UvnTz+oMPbDP=UyCuocpjCoRw3tQtg@mail.gmail.com>

Well done Roanna, that's great!

Very best wishes,
Sandra.

On 9/17/15, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Dear Students,
>
> I would like to give you an update on my independence.  Yesterday
> I scheduled my exams online without assistance from my private
> tutor.  I was able to log into the system and schedule them using
> my IPad.  This is a small step toward improving my independence.
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/sandragayer7%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Soprano Singer
 www.sandragayer.com

Broadcast Presenter

www.insightradio.co.uk/music-box.html

Voiceover Artist

www.archangelvoices.co.uk/content/sandra-gayer


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 15:08:52 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:08:52 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] pdf question
Message-ID: <014101d0f2ed$1adebbc0$509c3340$@gmail.com>

Does anyone no why when I alt tab away from pdf documents, my jaws stops
talking for the most part, and the pc becomes very unresponsive?  It gets
stuck and I can bearly move it; I end up having to reboot.

 

I've never evey heard of soemthing like that before.

Justin.


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 19 15:09:47 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 11:09:47 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] forgot to say what system I'm using.
Message-ID: <014601d0f2ed$39f54290$addfc7b0$@gmail.com>

Windows 7, jaws 16.

Justin


From dick at proxtalker.com  Sat Sep 19 20:26:00 2015
From: dick at proxtalker.com (Dick Harvey)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 15:26:00 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Braille Label Maker
Message-ID: <auto-000037118921@mailfront1.g2host.com>

We have been asked to circulate the following::


Hi All,

Â

6dot Braille Label Maker

Â

A short note to let you know about our new 6dot 
Braille Label Maker.  Made for people who read 
and write braille; our new label maker is 
portable, has a built-in braille keyboard , 
automatically cuts and scores 3/8 inch plastic 
adhesive tape, is powered by AA batteries or an 
optional power adapter, and produces great 
embossed braille labels.  Get ready to label your world!    Â

Â

Check it out.  Let us know what you think.

Â

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Â

(866) 962-0966

Â

<http://www.logantech.com>www.logantech.comÂ

Dick Harvey <dick at proxtalker.com>


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 00:33:25 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2015 20:33:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Syncing Google Calend with my IPhone
Message-ID: <55fdfef6.8258810a.ff248.7905@mx.google.com>

Good Evening Students,

This week when I scheduled my exams for the Fall semester I had 
to use Siri to put them on the calendar in my phone and IPad.  
How can I sync google's calendar where my upcoming appointments 
are stored with the calendar apps on my Apple devices? Hope to 
hear from you soon.


From amc05111 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 05:07:05 2015
From: amc05111 at gmail.com (amc05111 at gmail.com)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 01:07:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Syncing Google Calend with my IPhone
In-Reply-To: <55fdfef6.8258810a.ff248.7905@mx.google.com>
References: <55fdfef6.8258810a.ff248.7905@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <665E9DD0-D748-4663-94B4-40158F7BBDA3@gmail.com>

 Hello. 
I think you asked a great question. To knowledge, you can not sync your Apple calendar with your Google calendar. However, what you do put in your Google calendar, syncs to Apple as long as you are signed in with the same account. 
This sync should happen automatically once you are signed in. 
I hope this small nugget of information help. :) 
Thank you. 
Ashley Coleman. 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 19, 2015, at 8:33 PM, Roanna Bacchus via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Good Evening Students,
> 
> This week when I scheduled my exams for the Fall semester I had to use Siri to put them on the calendar in my phone and IPad.  How can I sync google's calendar where my upcoming appointments are stored with the calendar apps on my Apple devices? Hope to hear from you soon.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/amc05111%40gmail.com


From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 20:06:30 2015
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 16:06:30 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to
see what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.

I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as
accommodating as he can for the current chapter members, and
especially as I would be the new person coming in I can't expect them
to shift meetings around to suit my individual schedule, but I do
think the current time could be problematic.  The president keeps
saying, "You should join because we want more students like you in the
chapter," but if that is the case most of the people he'd be looking
at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.

I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I
would be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told
her it coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it
was a night class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for
grabs," like she was trying to entice me to coming in even though I
had a *final exam* in a class that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind
of thing that happens; they want me to drop everything for the
chapter, and while the chapter is important I am not prepared or
willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the president that I
can't attend October's meeting, or the January meetings, because I
will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go home
and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we
wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my
midterm breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit
different because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the
rest of break, but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend
with family when I don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it
falls on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.

There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in
the area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to
disability services staff to circulate information on the student
division and have been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the
school.  I know a grand total of 3 other blind people in their
twenties in the area; 2 are already in contact with the chapter
president, and the other is affiliated with ACB.  Furthermore on the
other college issue, the chapter president has said before that he
wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information session at
the other college to see if the blind students would come out to hear
about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set
that up at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on
it.  It makes telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter
very confusing.

I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
earlier in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays,
though that could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting
because A it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I
can still get things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for
students as a collective, though.



I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her
message, because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it
has to do a little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to
come to chapter meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for
student life going on (someone else mentioned that disconnect between
the older and younger generations as well), but I feel from the
chapter that I am being pressured to choose between student life,
which is limitted at this point, and joining the NFB.  In frustration
I've said no to the chapter to this point because with the student
division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm getting the
best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position to try
to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about having
to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been
getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."

The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian
was saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten
excuses from students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over
and over again I would think that, especially if they come from
different people including those who already support the Federation,
they might be legitimate conflicts with chapter meetings that I would
examine further to allow for the younger generation to better attend.
If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not
be so disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned
for the chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have
chapters, so it is important to show that we care about each other as
people in different life situations in order to foster a sense of
community within the chapter organizations.

I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not
my top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I
don't feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and
the December meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash
to begin with.

On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Kaiti,
>
> I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my time is
> very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on a limited
> basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do marketing for
> my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger priority was me
> organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered though I was to be
> considered for the task, I knew I did not have the time to commit to get
> the
> job done right. Could I gather a group of prospective members? Yes. Could I
> whip them into a self-sustained group that would last beyond the first two
> or three meetings? Not likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the
> perfect meeting time for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good
> leader at any level of the organization would maximize the assistance
> anyone
> could contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once
> a
> month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president
> here,
> but another option worth considering is organizing a student group on
> campus
> that would give you the flexibility to set a time that is both convenient
> and a location that is accessible for you guys. Alternatively, perhaps
> there
> is a chapter at-large in your affiliate that would allow you to remain
> connected and involved in some capacity. Either way, I think it commendable
> of you to be concerned enough to want to know how to stay active in the
> organization. My final thought is that you could be at a season in your
> life
> where NABS is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
> everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd be
> sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating for. If
> pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a productive
> contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the second. That seems a
> bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing disconnect between the older
> generation and the younger membership.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Musings of a Work in Progress:
> www.JoeOrozco.com/
>
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> via nabs-l
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
> Hi all,
>
> I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm prepared for
> that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm trying to explain
> it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live in one city and attend
> school in another, so there off the bat is no way I'd be able to attend
> either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis as I would like to do.
> Chapter
> presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should join and
> even consider running for a board position, which I will not do because of
> my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of the two chapters
> gets this a little better than the other now, and has pretty much given me
> a
> "come when you can, we'd love to have you when we can get you here,"
> reception.
> The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter president
> doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to things when I can,
> but I partially dread it because every time I attend some social function
> the floodgates for this conversation are opened again.  I'm told again that
> I am needed in the chapter, that I can really make a difference, and if I
> join more students will join and the chapter is not by any means comprised
> of young people.
>
> This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
> confused
> and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a chapter president,
> especially because he knows I'm active and dedicated to the student
> division, the affiliate, and other projects in the NFB, but being in that
> older crowd I don't think he understands what it is like for students
> anymore.  In my sophomore year I had difficulty attending chapter meetings
> for a few reasons.  One was that they are on the first Saturday or the
> month, which conflicts with nearly every break from school I have including
> the two midterm breaks and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti
> dinner is also something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is
> always scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
> part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to attend
> chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so giving work
> wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up extra hours, not
> throw them away.  I also have been in a professional music fraternity since
> the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a lot of our major events
> (recruitment events, initiations and pledging ceremonies, etc) happen on
> Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to
> mention the location is subject to change from place to place so students
> can't plan for consistency, I have had difficulty in getting there.
>
> I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
> double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I tell
> him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time isn't
> very
> accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should cancel work or do
> what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it would benefit the
> chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do understand personal
> sacrifices can and should be made to an extent, students do not have as
> much
> flexibility as working people to move classes around in the week, and there
> are only so many hours in the weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are
> a good thing for blind students to be involved in because it shows peers
> that we can be engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also
> creates networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
> long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which mine
> are
> not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also want to
> experience
> life as a student too in the year or so I have left of undergrad.
>
> I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways to be
> active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters, and I would
> venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably isn't great for
> most students since it's right in the middle of the day.  I did not send
> the
> email I drafted, but I feel like if the chapter needs and wants students to
> join as badly as they say they do, they need to make the meeting time more
> accessible to that group of people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and
> I think that is also the case for other highly-involved and motivated
> students who the president would like to see join the chapter.
>
> Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I am
> open to anything at this point. I really would join the local chapter if it
> were held at times that I could consistently attend.
> Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
> outside
> of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've prooven to be
> involved in the affiliate on committees and in other projects including
> BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of these chapters isn't a
> possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the push-back for my reasons
> why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or because I don't want to go; I
> think work conflicts and required fraternity events which I will only be
> able to have for a year longer tops are acceptable reasons to be absent,
> not
> to mention that when I'm home traveling an hour to the meeting and then
> another hour back home
> 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
> already
> a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is right for me to
> do
> so, and by that I mean when I can actively contribute in a stable and
> dedicated way.  That will most likely come when I have a 40 hour work week
> like the rest of the current chapter if they don't take their desire for
> student members and what is accessible to them into consideration.
> --
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The
> National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016
>
> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Sun Sep 20 21:54:43 2015
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 17:54:43 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>

Hello Kaiti,

I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a local
chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the NFB is one
of the things I do not like about the organization. In this second email,
you state this is not the NFB you know because you believe it is important
for other members and chapter leaders to show other people they care about
them as people in all situations of their lives as members of the
organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you know, but it is definitely the
NFB I know, so it really does not surprise me to hear you have been treated
this way.

I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how to go
about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been said, so I
will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions for you.

If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis, is
there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we usually
have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer picnic and
the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such a committee
even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps serving on such a
committee would make the chapter President more open to changing the time
and date of the event so you could attend it.

Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that take
place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments would
allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are more
businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could do as a
chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other better. So
perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night where chapter
members could play various card games and board games. Or you could organize
something more like a Braille club meeting, book club meeting, or NFB
philosophy discussions if you are more interested in having a more tailored
discussion about blindness or the NFB.

I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not able
to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it is
perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it does
not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may encourage you
to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or not they make you
feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to be involved because of
your schedule is up to you and not them. It is not selfish to put yourself
first because we are not able to be there for others if we do not look after
ourselves first.

Warm regards,
Elizabeth

 








-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
via nabs-l
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters

Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to see
what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.

I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as accommodating
as he can for the current chapter members, and especially as I would be the
new person coming in I can't expect them to shift meetings around to suit my
individual schedule, but I do think the current time could be problematic.
The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more students
like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the people he'd be
looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.

I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I would
be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her it
coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a night
class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," like she was
trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a *final exam* in a class
that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing that happens; they want me
to drop everything for the chapter, and while the chapter is important I am
not prepared or willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the
president that I can't attend October's meeting, or the January meetings,
because I will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go
home and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we
wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm
breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different
because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of break,
but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when I
don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it falls
on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.

There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in the
area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to disability
services staff to circulate information on the student division and have
been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  I know a grand total
of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the area; 2 are already in
contact with the chapter president, and the other is affiliated with ACB.
Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
session at the other college to see if the blind students would come out to
hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set that up
at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on it.  It makes
telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter very confusing.

I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays earlier
in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, though that
could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting because A
it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I can still get
things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for students as
a collective, though.



I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her message,
because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it has to do a
little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to come to chapter
meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for student life going on
(someone else mentioned that disconnect between the older and younger
generations as well), but I feel from the chapter that I am being pressured
to choose between student life, which is limitted at this point, and joining
the NFB.  In frustration I've said no to the chapter to this point because
with the student division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm
getting the best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position
to try to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been
getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."

The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses from
students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over again I
would think that, especially if they come from different people including
those who already support the Federation, they might be legitimate conflicts
with chapter meetings that I would examine further to allow for the younger
generation to better attend.
If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be so
disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for the
chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have chapters,
so it is important to show that we care about each other as people in
different life situations in order to foster a sense of community within the
chapter organizations.

I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not my
top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I don't
feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and the December
meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to begin with.

On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Kaiti,
>
> I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my 
> time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on 
> a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do 
> marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger 
> priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered 
> though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did not have the 
> time to commit to get the job done right. Could I gather a group of 
> prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a self-sustained 
> group that would last beyond the first two or three meetings? Not 
> likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the perfect meeting time 
> for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good leader at any 
> level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone could 
> contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a 
> month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president 
> here, but another option worth considering is organizing a student 
> group on campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that 
> is both convenient and a location that is accessible for you guys. 
> Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate 
> that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some 
> capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned 
> enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My 
> final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where NABS 
> is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if 
> everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd 
> be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating 
> for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a 
> productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the 
> second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing 
> disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
>
> Joe
>
> --
> Musings of a Work in Progress:
> www.JoeOrozco.com/
>
> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti 
> Shelton via nabs-l
> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
> Hi all,
>
> I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm 
> prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm 
> trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live 
> in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no 
> way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis as
I would like to do.
> Chapter
> presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should 
> join and even consider running for a board position, which I will not 
> do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of 
> the two chapters gets this a little better than the other now, and has 
> pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to have you when 
> we can get you here,"
> reception.
> The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter 
> president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to 
> things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I 
> attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are 
> opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I 
> can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join 
> and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>
> This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little 
> confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a 
> chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and 
> dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects 
> in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands 
> what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had 
> difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that 
> they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with 
> nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks 
> and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also 
> something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always 
> scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a 
> part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to 
> attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so 
> giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up 
> extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional 
> music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a 
> lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging 
> ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings 
> scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to 
> change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I have
had difficulty in getting there.
>
> I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a 
> double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I 
> tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time 
> isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should 
> cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it 
> would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do 
> understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent, 
> students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move 
> classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the 
> weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind 
> students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be 
> engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates 
> networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as 
> long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which 
> mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also 
> want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left 
> of undergrad.
>
> I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways 
> to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters, 
> and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably 
> isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the 
> day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the 
> chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do, 
> they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of 
> people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also 
> the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the 
> president would like to see join the chapter.
>
> Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I 
> am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local 
> chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
> Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events 
> outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've 
> prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other 
> projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of 
> these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the 
> push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or 
> because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required 
> fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer 
> tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm 
> home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
> 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am 
> already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is 
> right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively 
> contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come 
> when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter 
> if they don't take their desire for student members and what is 
> accessible to them into consideration.
> --
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, 
> The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 
> 2015-2016
>
> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.c
> om
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
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> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> 40gmail.com
>


--
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The
National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
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From arielle71 at gmail.com  Sun Sep 20 22:51:22 2015
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 15:51:22 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJBWC4t-EMAY1++0E7EEqd7p-B_+Pr_OoNeJ2vdSaXopkA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Kaiti. I think Elizabeth has some great ideas. Also, what about
joining up with the Cincinnati chapter and attending meetings when you
are home? Could you potentially join both chapters and come to
meetings when you can, and help with projects only that fit your
schedule? I know there are plenty of people who attend multiple
chapter meetings. While getting a board position in either chapter
might not work with your schedule, you could still participate as a
member, on committees etc.
It sounds like the Dayton chapter may be hurting for board members,
and they see you as a smart motivated person with leadership potential
so are trying to entice you to run. It's not a deliberate guilt thing
so much as a "we really need your help" ask. Of course, you need to
set boundaries in your life, and giving up class or work time for
chapter leadership is almost certainly not appropriate. Giving up on
other extracurriculars to which you have already committed your time
is also probably not appropriate since you would be letting other
people down to whom you have already committed work. I think it is
completely acceptable to decline the invitation to run for a board
positionif you are genuinely too busy. In fact, from a leadership
viewpoint, I'd much rather someone do that than agree to be on the
board and then not show up for anything.
That said, if you do have a goal of bringing students into either
chapter, you will want to find out what the best time is for all
students, as your particular time preferences might not overlap with
others. I'm pretty sure that most of my friends back in college would
have balked at a 9AM meeting time, for example. Even if it's just you
and the other two students you mention who are already active, the
three of you coming together to propose a time will be more effective
than just one of you.
Best, Arielle

On 9/20/15, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello Kaiti,
>
> I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a local
> chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the NFB is one
> of the things I do not like about the organization. In this second email,
> you state this is not the NFB you know because you believe it is important
> for other members and chapter leaders to show other people they care about
> them as people in all situations of their lives as members of the
> organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you know, but it is definitely
> the
> NFB I know, so it really does not surprise me to hear you have been treated
> this way.
>
> I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how to
> go
> about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been said, so
> I
> will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions for you.
>
> If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis, is
> there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
> committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we
> usually
> have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer picnic and
> the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such a committee
> even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps serving on such a
> committee would make the chapter President more open to changing the time
> and date of the event so you could attend it.
>
> Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that take
> place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
> Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
> chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments would
> allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are more
> businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could do as a
> chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other better. So
> perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night where chapter
> members could play various card games and board games. Or you could
> organize
> something more like a Braille club meeting, book club meeting, or NFB
> philosophy discussions if you are more interested in having a more tailored
> discussion about blindness or the NFB.
>
> I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
> might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not able
> to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it is
> perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it does
> not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may encourage you
> to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or not they make you
> feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to be involved because of
> your schedule is up to you and not them. It is not selfish to put yourself
> first because we are not able to be there for others if we do not look
> after
> ourselves first.
>
> Warm regards,
> Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
> via nabs-l
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
> Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to see
> what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
>
> I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as accommodating
> as he can for the current chapter members, and especially as I would be the
> new person coming in I can't expect them to shift meetings around to suit
> my
> individual schedule, but I do think the current time could be problematic.
> The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more students
> like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the people he'd
> be
> looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.
>
> I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
> 9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I would
> be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her it
> coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a night
> class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," like she
> was
> trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a *final exam* in a
> class
> that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing that happens; they want me
> to drop everything for the chapter, and while the chapter is important I am
> not prepared or willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the
> president that I can't attend October's meeting, or the January meetings,
> because I will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go
> home and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we
> wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm
> breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different
> because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of break,
> but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when I
> don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
> This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it falls
> on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
>
> There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in the
> area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to disability
> services staff to circulate information on the student division and have
> been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  I know a grand total
> of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the area; 2 are already in
> contact with the chapter president, and the other is affiliated with ACB.
> Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
> before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
> session at the other college to see if the blind students would come out to
> hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
> something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set that
> up
> at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on it.  It makes
> telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter very confusing.
>
> I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
> earlier
> in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, though that
> could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
> I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting because A
> it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I can still get
> things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
> There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for students
> as
> a collective, though.
>
>
>
> I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her message,
> because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it has to do a
> little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to come to chapter
> meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for student life going on
> (someone else mentioned that disconnect between the older and younger
> generations as well), but I feel from the chapter that I am being pressured
> to choose between student life, which is limitted at this point, and
> joining
> the NFB.  In frustration I've said no to the chapter to this point because
> with the student division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm
> getting the best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position
> to try to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
> having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been
> getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
> or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
> mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
> Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
>
> The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
> saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses from
> students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over again I
> would think that, especially if they come from different people including
> those who already support the Federation, they might be legitimate
> conflicts
> with chapter meetings that I would examine further to allow for the younger
> generation to better attend.
> If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be so
> disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for the
> chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
> That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have chapters,
> so it is important to show that we care about each other as people in
> different life situations in order to foster a sense of community within
> the
> chapter organizations.
>
> I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not my
> top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I don't
> feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and the December
> meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to begin with.
>
> On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Kaiti,
>>
>> I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
>> time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on
>> a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do
>> marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger
>> priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered
>> though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did not have the
>> time to commit to get the job done right. Could I gather a group of
>> prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a self-sustained
>> group that would last beyond the first two or three meetings? Not
>> likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the perfect meeting time
>> for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good leader at any
>> level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone could
>> contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a
>> month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president
>> here, but another option worth considering is organizing a student
>> group on campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that
>> is both convenient and a location that is accessible for you guys.
>> Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
>> that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
>> capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
>> enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
>> final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where NABS
>> is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
>> everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
>> be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
>> for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
>> productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
>> second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
>> disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> --
>> Musings of a Work in Progress:
>> www.JoeOrozco.com/
>>
>> Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> Shelton via nabs-l
>> Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> Cc: Kaiti Shelton
>> Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>> prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>> trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>> in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>> way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis as
> I would like to do.
>> Chapter
>> presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
>> join and even consider running for a board position, which I will not
>> do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of
>> the two chapters gets this a little better than the other now, and has
>> pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to have you when
>> we can get you here,"
>> reception.
>> The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>> president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>> things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>> attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>> opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>> can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>> and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>>
>> This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>> confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>> chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>> dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>> in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>> what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>> difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>> they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>> nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>> and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>> something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>> scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>> part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>> attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>> giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>> extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>> music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>> lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>> ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>> scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>> change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I have
> had difficulty in getting there.
>>
>> I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>> double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>> tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>> isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>> cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>> would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>> understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>> students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>> classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>> weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>> students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>> engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>> networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>> long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>> mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>> want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>> of undergrad.
>>
>> I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>> to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>> and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>> isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>> day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>> chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>> they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>> people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>> the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>> president would like to see join the chapter.
>>
>> Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>> am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>> chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>> Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>> outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>> prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>> projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>> these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>> push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>> because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>> fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>> tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>> home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>> 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>> already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>> right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>> contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>> when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>> if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>> accessible to them into consideration.
>> --
>> Kaiti Shelton
>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
>> The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division
>> 2015-2016
>>
>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.c
>> om
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>> 40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The
> National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016
>
> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/lizmohnke%40hotmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From dandrews at visi.com  Sun Sep 20 23:15:32 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 18:15:32 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>

I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter 
does something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this 
is the "NFB way."

Dave

At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
>Hello Kaiti,
>
>I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a local
>chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the NFB is one
>of the things I do not like about the organization. In this second email,
>you state this is not the NFB you know because you believe it is important
>for other members and chapter leaders to show other people they care about
>them as people in all situations of their lives as members of the
>organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you know, but it is definitely the
>NFB I know, so it really does not surprise me to hear you have been treated
>this way.
>
>I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how to go
>about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been said, so I
>will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions for you.
>
>If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis, is
>there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
>committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we usually
>have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer picnic and
>the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such a committee
>even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps serving on such a
>committee would make the chapter President more open to changing the time
>and date of the event so you could attend it.
>
>Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that take
>place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
>Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
>chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments would
>allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are more
>businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could do as a
>chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other better. So
>perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night where chapter
>members could play various card games and board games. Or you could organize
>something more like a Braille club meeting, book club meeting, or NFB
>philosophy discussions if you are more interested in having a more tailored
>discussion about blindness or the NFB.
>
>I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
>might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not able
>to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it is
>perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it does
>not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may encourage you
>to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or not they make you
>feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to be involved because of
>your schedule is up to you and not them. It is not selfish to put yourself
>first because we are not able to be there for others if we do not look after
>ourselves first.
>
>Warm regards,
>Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
>via nabs-l
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
>To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
>Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to see
>what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
>
>I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as accommodating
>as he can for the current chapter members, and especially as I would be the
>new person coming in I can't expect them to shift meetings around to suit my
>individual schedule, but I do think the current time could be problematic.
>The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more students
>like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the people he'd be
>looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.
>
>I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
>9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I would
>be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her it
>coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a night
>class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," like she was
>trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a *final exam* in a class
>that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing that happens; they want me
>to drop everything for the chapter, and while the chapter is important I am
>not prepared or willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the
>president that I can't attend October's meeting, or the January meetings,
>because I will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go
>home and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we
>wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm
>breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different
>because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of break,
>but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when I
>don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
>This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it falls
>on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
>
>There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in the
>area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to disability
>services staff to circulate information on the student division and have
>been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  I know a grand total
>of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the area; 2 are already in
>contact with the chapter president, and the other is affiliated with ACB.
>Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
>before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
>session at the other college to see if the blind students would come out to
>hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
>something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set that up
>at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on it.  It makes
>telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter very confusing.
>
>I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays earlier
>in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, though that
>could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
>I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting because A
>it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I can still get
>things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
>There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for students as
>a collective, though.
>
>
>
>I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her message,
>because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it has to do a
>little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to come to chapter
>meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for student life going on
>(someone else mentioned that disconnect between the older and younger
>generations as well), but I feel from the chapter that I am being pressured
>to choose between student life, which is limitted at this point, and joining
>the NFB.  In frustration I've said no to the chapter to this point because
>with the student division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm
>getting the best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position
>to try to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
>having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been
>getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
>or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
>mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
>Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
>
>The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
>saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses from
>students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over again I
>would think that, especially if they come from different people including
>those who already support the Federation, they might be legitimate conflicts
>with chapter meetings that I would examine further to allow for the younger
>generation to better attend.
>If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be so
>disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for the
>chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
>That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have chapters,
>so it is important to show that we care about each other as people in
>different life situations in order to foster a sense of community within the
>chapter organizations.
>
>I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not my
>top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I don't
>feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and the December
>meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to begin with.
>
>On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Kaiti,
> >
> > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
> > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on
> > a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do
> > marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger
> > priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered
> > though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did not have the
> > time to commit to get the job done right. Could I gather a group of
> > prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a self-sustained
> > group that would last beyond the first two or three meetings? Not
> > likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the perfect meeting time
> > for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good leader at any
> > level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone could
> > contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a
> > month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president
> > here, but another option worth considering is organizing a student
> > group on campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that
> > is both convenient and a location that is accessible for you guys.
> > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
> > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
> > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
> > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
> > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where NABS
> > is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
> > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
> > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
> > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
> > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
> > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
> > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --
> > Musings of a Work in Progress:
> > www.JoeOrozco.com/
> >
> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> > Shelton via nabs-l
> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
> > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
> > trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
> > in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
> > way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis as
>I would like to do.
> > Chapter
> > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
> > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will not
> > do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of
> > the two chapters gets this a little better than the other now, and has
> > pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to have you when
> > we can get you here,"
> > reception.
> > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
> > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
> > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
> > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
> > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
> > can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
> > and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
> >
> > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
> > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
> > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
> > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
> > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
> > what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
> > difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
> > they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
> > nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
> > and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
> > something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
> > scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
> > part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
> > attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
> > giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
> > extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
> > music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
> > lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
> > ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
> > scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
> > change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I have
>had difficulty in getting there.
> >
> > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
> > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
> > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
> > isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
> > cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
> > would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
> > understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
> > students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
> > classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
> > weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
> > students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
> > engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
> > networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
> > long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
> > mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
> > want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
> > of undergrad.
> >
> > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
> > to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
> > and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
> > isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
> > day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
> > chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
> > they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
> > people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
> > the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
> > president would like to see join the chapter.
> >
> > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
> > am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
> > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
> > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
> > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
> > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
> > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
> > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
> > push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
> > because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
> > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
> > tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
> > home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
> > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
> > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
> > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
> > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
> > when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
> > if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
> > accessible to them into consideration.
> > --
> > Kaiti Shelton
> > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
> > The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division
> > 2015-2016
> >
> > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.c
> > om
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
> > 40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>--
>Kaiti Shelton
>University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The
>National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org



From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 00:54:31 2015
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:54:31 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <COL401-EAS3462166D3604538D98B01DCBA460@phx.gbl>

Hello Dave,

I am sorry to hear you took my personal experience with the NFB as a broad
generalization about the organization. Unfortunately, my overall experience
with the NFB has not been a very positive one, and besides a few rare
exceptions, I have never really received the positive support and
encouragement I hear other people talk about receiving as members of the
NFB. This has been something I have experienced at all levels of the
organization. Therefore, it does not surprise me to hear Kaiti talk about
being treated this way. From my point of view, this just seems to be the way
the NFB operates as an organization. However, I am not going to deny my
negative experience with the NFB simply because other people do not believe
my negative experience with the NFB could possibly be true.

Warm regards,
Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
via nabs-l
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 7:16 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters

I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter does
something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the "NFB
way."

Dave

At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
>Hello Kaiti,
>
>I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a 
>local chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the 
>NFB is one of the things I do not like about the organization. In this 
>second email, you state this is not the NFB you know because you 
>believe it is important for other members and chapter leaders to show 
>other people they care about them as people in all situations of their 
>lives as members of the organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you 
>know, but it is definitely the NFB I know, so it really does not 
>surprise me to hear you have been treated this way.
>
>I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how 
>to go about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been 
>said, so I will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions
for you.
>
>If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis, 
>is there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a 
>committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we 
>usually have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer 
>picnic and the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such 
>a committee even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps 
>serving on such a committee would make the chapter President more open 
>to changing the time and date of the event so you could attend it.
>
>Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that 
>take place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
>Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular 
>chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments 
>would allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are 
>more businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could 
>do as a chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other 
>better. So perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night 
>where chapter members could play various card games and board games. Or 
>you could organize something more like a Braille club meeting, book 
>club meeting, or NFB philosophy discussions if you are more interested 
>in having a more tailored discussion about blindness or the NFB.
>
>I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you 
>might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not 
>able to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it 
>is perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it 
>does not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may 
>encourage you to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or 
>not they make you feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to 
>be involved because of your schedule is up to you and not them. It is 
>not selfish to put yourself first because we are not able to be there 
>for others if we do not look after ourselves first.
>
>Warm regards,
>Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti 
>Shelton via nabs-l
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
>To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing 
>list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
>Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to 
>see what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
>
>I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as 
>accommodating as he can for the current chapter members, and especially 
>as I would be the new person coming in I can't expect them to shift 
>meetings around to suit my individual schedule, but I do think the current
time could be problematic.
>The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more 
>students like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the 
>people he'd be looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the
weekends.
>
>I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
>9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I 
>would be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her 
>it coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a 
>night class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," 
>like she was trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a 
>*final exam* in a class that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing 
>that happens; they want me to drop everything for the chapter, and 
>while the chapter is important I am not prepared or willing to do that.  
>The same happens when I tell the president that I can't attend 
>October's meeting, or the January meetings, because I will be home in 
>Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go home and have my family 
>drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we wouldn't be able to 
>go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm breaks like every 
>other student does.  That situation is a bit different because in 
>theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of break, but 
>I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when I
don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
>This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it 
>falls on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
>
>There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in 
>the area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to 
>disability services staff to circulate information on the student 
>division and have been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  
>I know a grand total of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the 
>area; 2 are already in contact with the chapter president, and the other is
affiliated with ACB.
>Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said 
>before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information 
>session at the other college to see if the blind students would come 
>out to hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free 
>pizza or something.  I started by trying to contact people who could 
>help set that up at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from 
>him on it.  It makes telling whether or not he wants students in the
chapter very confusing.
>
>I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays 
>earlier in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, 
>though that could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
>I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting 
>because A it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I 
>can still get things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
>There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for 
>students as a collective, though.
>
>
>
>I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her 
>message, because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it 
>has to do a little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to 
>come to chapter meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for 
>student life going on (someone else mentioned that disconnect between 
>the older and younger generations as well), but I feel from the chapter 
>that I am being pressured to choose between student life, which is 
>limitted at this point, and joining the NFB.  In frustration I've said 
>no to the chapter to this point because with the student division in 
>Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm getting the best of both 
>worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position to try to entice a 
>student to the meetings when they are upfront about having to take a 
>final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been getting when I
say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
>or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is 
>mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's 
>Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
>
>The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was 
>saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses 
>from students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over 
>again I would think that, especially if they come from different people 
>including those who already support the Federation, they might be 
>legitimate conflicts with chapter meetings that I would examine further 
>to allow for the younger generation to better attend.
>If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be 
>so disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for 
>the chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
>That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have 
>chapters, so it is important to show that we care about each other as 
>people in different life situations in order to foster a sense of 
>community within the chapter organizations.
>
>I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not 
>my top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I 
>don't feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and 
>the December meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to
begin with.
>
>On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > Kaiti,
> >
> > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my 
> > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation 
> > on a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants 
> > or do marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's 
> > larger priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and 
> > flattered though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did 
> > not have the time to commit to get the job done right. Could I 
> > gather a group of prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a 
> > self-sustained group that would last beyond the first two or three 
> > meetings? Not likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the 
> > perfect meeting time for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but 
> > a good leader at any level of the organization would maximize the 
> > assistance anyone could contribute, whether it be in person or 
> > remotely, once a week or once a month. I'm going to sound like my 
> > own former state affiliate president here, but another option worth 
> > considering is organizing a student group on campus that would give 
> > you the flexibility to set a time that is both convenient and a location
that is accessible for you guys.
> > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate 
> > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some 
> > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned 
> > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My 
> > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where 
> > NABS is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if 
> > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd 
> > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating 
> > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a 
> > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the 
> > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing 
> > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > --
> > Musings of a Work in Progress:
> > www.JoeOrozco.com/
> >
> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti 
> > Shelton via nabs-l
> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm 
> > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and 
> > I'm trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I 
> > live in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat 
> > is no way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a 
> > monthly basis as
>I would like to do.
> > Chapter
> > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should 
> > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will 
> > not do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  
> > One of the two chapters gets this a little better than the other 
> > now, and has pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to 
> > have you when we can get you here,"
> > reception.
> > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter 
> > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to 
> > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I 
> > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are 
> > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that 
> > I can really make a difference, and if I join more students will 
> > join and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
> >
> > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little 
> > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a 
> > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and 
> > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects 
> > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he 
> > understands what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore 
> > year I had difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  
> > One was that they are on the first Saturday or the month, which 
> > conflicts with nearly every break from school I have including the 
> > two midterm breaks and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti 
> > dinner is also something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but 
> > it is always scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on 
> > Saturdays at a part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to 
> > take off work to attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my 
> > grocery money, so giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; 
> > I wanted to pick up extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have 
> > been in a professional music fraternity since the spring semester of 
> > my Freshman year, and a lot of our major events (recruitment events, 
> > initiations and pledging ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With 
> > the chapter meetings scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the 
> > location is subject to change from place to place so students can't 
> > plan for consistency, I have
>had difficulty in getting there.
> >
> > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a 
> > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I 
> > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the 
> > time isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I 
> > should cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings 
> > because it would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that 
> > while I do understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to 
> > an extent, students do not have as much flexibility as working 
> > people to move classes around in the week, and there are only so 
> > many hours in the weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a 
> > good thing for blind students to be involved in because it shows 
> > peers that we can be engaged and active in the same ways as they 
> > are.  It also creates networking opportunities and even job 
> > prospects after graduation as long as the extracurriculars are not 
> > merely social in nature, which mine are not.  I want to join the 
> > local chapter nearby, but I also want to experience life as a 
> > student too in the year or so I have left of undergrad.
> >
> > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found 
> > ways to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of 
> > chapters, and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a 
> > Saturday probably isn't great for most students since it's right in 
> > the middle of the day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I 
> > feel like if the chapter needs and wants students to join as badly 
> > as they say they do, they need to make the meeting time more 
> > accessible to that group of people.  Right now I know it is not for 
> > me, and I think that is also the case for other highly-involved and 
> > motivated students who the president would like to see join the chapter.
> >
> > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but 
> > I am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local 
> > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
> > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events 
> > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've 
> > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other 
> > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of 
> > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating 
> > the push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses 
> > or because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required 
> > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year 
> > longer tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that 
> > when I'm home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour 
> > back home
> > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am 
> > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is 
> > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively 
> > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely 
> > come when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current 
> > chapter if they don't take their desire for student members and what 
> > is accessible to them into consideration.
> > --
> > Kaiti Shelton
> > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present 
> > Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts 
> > Division
> > 2015-2016
> >
> > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail
> > .c
> > om
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > nabs-l mailing list
> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > for
> > nabs-l:
> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
> > 4%
> > 40gmail.com
> >
>
>
>--
>Kaiti Shelton
>University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, 
>The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org


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From dandrews at visi.com  Mon Sep 21 01:25:16 2015
From: dandrews at visi.com (David Andrews)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 20:25:16 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <COL401-EAS3462166D3604538D98B01DCBA460@phx.gbl>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<COL401-EAS3462166D3604538D98B01DCBA460@phx.gbl>
Message-ID: <auto-000037172368@mailfront1.g2host.com>

My message was not just aimed at you -- although I suppose it was a 
little.  I am sorry for the negative experiences that you have 
had.  The NFB has done me a lot of good over the years, and I like it 
when it can do the same for others. I am sorry that this is not your 
experience.  Without meaning to sound harsh though I would add that 
we live in a grey world, nothing is usually just black, or white.  It 
is likely that both you and your local NFB have done things which 
have hurt your relationship.  I am sorry and hope that all can get 
past what has happened previously.

Dave

At 07:54 PM 9/20/2015, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote:
>Hello Dave,
>
>I am sorry to hear you took my personal experience with the NFB as a broad
>generalization about the organization. Unfortunately, my overall experience
>with the NFB has not been a very positive one, and besides a few rare
>exceptions, I have never really received the positive support and
>encouragement I hear other people talk about receiving as members of the
>NFB. This has been something I have experienced at all levels of the
>organization. Therefore, it does not surprise me to hear Kaiti talk about
>being treated this way. From my point of view, this just seems to be the way
>the NFB operates as an organization. However, I am not going to deny my
>negative experience with the NFB simply because other people do not believe
>my negative experience with the NFB could possibly be true.
>
>Warm regards,
>Elizabeth
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David Andrews
>via nabs-l
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 7:16 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
>I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter does
>something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the "NFB
>way."
>
>Dave
>
>At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
> >Hello Kaiti,
> >
> >I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a
> >local chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the
> >NFB is one of the things I do not like about the organization. In this
> >second email, you state this is not the NFB you know because you
> >believe it is important for other members and chapter leaders to show
> >other people they care about them as people in all situations of their
> >lives as members of the organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you
> >know, but it is definitely the NFB I know, so it really does not
> >surprise me to hear you have been treated this way.
> >
> >I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how
> >to go about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been
> >said, so I will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions
>for you.
> >
> >If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis,
> >is there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
> >committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we
> >usually have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer
> >picnic and the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such
> >a committee even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps
> >serving on such a committee would make the chapter President more open
> >to changing the time and date of the event so you could attend it.
> >
> >Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that
> >take place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
> >Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
> >chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments
> >would allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are
> >more businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could
> >do as a chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other
> >better. So perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night
> >where chapter members could play various card games and board games. Or
> >you could organize something more like a Braille club meeting, book
> >club meeting, or NFB philosophy discussions if you are more interested
> >in having a more tailored discussion about blindness or the NFB.
> >
> >I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
> >might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not
> >able to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it
> >is perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it
> >does not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may
> >encourage you to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or
> >not they make you feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to
> >be involved because of your schedule is up to you and not them. It is
> >not selfish to put yourself first because we are not able to be there
> >for others if we do not look after ourselves first.
> >
> >Warm regards,
> >Elizabeth
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> >Shelton via nabs-l
> >Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
> >To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
> >list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> >
> >Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to
> >see what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
> >
> >I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as
> >accommodating as he can for the current chapter members, and especially
> >as I would be the new person coming in I can't expect them to shift
> >meetings around to suit my individual schedule, but I do think the current
>time could be problematic.
> >The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more
> >students like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the
> >people he'd be looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the
>weekends.
> >
> >I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
> >9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I
> >would be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her
> >it coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a
> >night class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs,"
> >like she was trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a
> >*final exam* in a class that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing
> >that happens; they want me to drop everything for the chapter, and
> >while the chapter is important I am not prepared or willing to do that.
> >The same happens when I tell the president that I can't attend
> >October's meeting, or the January meetings, because I will be home in
> >Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go home and have my family
> >drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we wouldn't be able to
> >go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm breaks like every
> >other student does.  That situation is a bit different because in
> >theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of break, but
> >I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when I
>don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
> >This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it
> >falls on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
> >
> >There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in
> >the area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to
> >disability services staff to circulate information on the student
> >division and have been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.
> >I know a grand total of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the
> >area; 2 are already in contact with the chapter president, and the other is
>affiliated with ACB.
> >Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
> >before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
> >session at the other college to see if the blind students would come
> >out to hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free
> >pizza or something.  I started by trying to contact people who could
> >help set that up at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from
> >him on it.  It makes telling whether or not he wants students in the
>chapter very confusing.
> >
> >I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
> >earlier in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays,
> >though that could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
> >I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting
> >because A it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I
> >can still get things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
> >There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for
> >students as a collective, though.
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her
> >message, because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it
> >has to do a little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to
> >come to chapter meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for
> >student life going on (someone else mentioned that disconnect between
> >the older and younger generations as well), but I feel from the chapter
> >that I am being pressured to choose between student life, which is
> >limitted at this point, and joining the NFB.  In frustration I've said
> >no to the chapter to this point because with the student division in
> >Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm getting the best of both
> >worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position to try to entice a
> >student to the meetings when they are upfront about having to take a
> >final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been getting when I
>say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
> >or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
> >mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
> >Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
> >
> >The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
> >saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses
> >from students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over
> >again I would think that, especially if they come from different people
> >including those who already support the Federation, they might be
> >legitimate conflicts with chapter meetings that I would examine further
> >to allow for the younger generation to better attend.
> >If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be
> >so disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for
> >the chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
> >That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have
> >chapters, so it is important to show that we care about each other as
> >people in different life situations in order to foster a sense of
> >community within the chapter organizations.
> >
> >I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not
> >my top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I
> >don't feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and
> >the December meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to
>begin with.
> >
> >On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > Kaiti,
> > >
> > > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
> > > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation
> > > on a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants
> > > or do marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's
> > > larger priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and
> > > flattered though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did
> > > not have the time to commit to get the job done right. Could I
> > > gather a group of prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a
> > > self-sustained group that would last beyond the first two or three
> > > meetings? Not likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the
> > > perfect meeting time for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but
> > > a good leader at any level of the organization would maximize the
> > > assistance anyone could contribute, whether it be in person or
> > > remotely, once a week or once a month. I'm going to sound like my
> > > own former state affiliate president here, but another option worth
> > > considering is organizing a student group on campus that would give
> > > you the flexibility to set a time that is both convenient and a location
>that is accessible for you guys.
> > > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
> > > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
> > > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
> > > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
> > > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where
> > > NABS is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
> > > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
> > > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
> > > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
> > > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
> > > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
> > > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > --
> > > Musings of a Work in Progress:
> > > www.JoeOrozco.com/
> > >
> > > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
> > > Shelton via nabs-l
> > > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> > > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
> > > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and
> > > I'm trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I
> > > live in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat
> > > is no way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a
> > > monthly basis as
> >I would like to do.
> > > Chapter
> > > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
> > > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will
> > > not do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.
> > > One of the two chapters gets this a little better than the other
> > > now, and has pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to
> > > have you when we can get you here,"
> > > reception.
> > > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
> > > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
> > > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
> > > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
> > > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that
> > > I can really make a difference, and if I join more students will
> > > join and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
> > >
> > > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
> > > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
> > > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
> > > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
> > > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he
> > > understands what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore
> > > year I had difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.
> > > One was that they are on the first Saturday or the month, which
> > > conflicts with nearly every break from school I have including the
> > > two midterm breaks and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti
> > > dinner is also something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but
> > > it is always scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on
> > > Saturdays at a part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to
> > > take off work to attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my
> > > grocery money, so giving work wasn't something I was willing to do;
> > > I wanted to pick up extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have
> > > been in a professional music fraternity since the spring semester of
> > > my Freshman year, and a lot of our major events (recruitment events,
> > > initiations and pledging ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With
> > > the chapter meetings scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the
> > > location is subject to change from place to place so students can't
> > > plan for consistency, I have
> >had difficulty in getting there.
> > >
> > > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
> > > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
> > > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the
> > > time isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I
> > > should cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings
> > > because it would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that
> > > while I do understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to
> > > an extent, students do not have as much flexibility as working
> > > people to move classes around in the week, and there are only so
> > > many hours in the weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a
> > > good thing for blind students to be involved in because it shows
> > > peers that we can be engaged and active in the same ways as they
> > > are.  It also creates networking opportunities and even job
> > > prospects after graduation as long as the extracurriculars are not
> > > merely social in nature, which mine are not.  I want to join the
> > > local chapter nearby, but I also want to experience life as a
> > > student too in the year or so I have left of undergrad.
> > >
> > > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found
> > > ways to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of
> > > chapters, and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a
> > > Saturday probably isn't great for most students since it's right in
> > > the middle of the day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I
> > > feel like if the chapter needs and wants students to join as badly
> > > as they say they do, they need to make the meeting time more
> > > accessible to that group of people.  Right now I know it is not for
> > > me, and I think that is also the case for other highly-involved and
> > > motivated students who the president would like to see join the chapter.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but
> > > I am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
> > > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
> > > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
> > > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
> > > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
> > > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
> > > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating
> > > the push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses
> > > or because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
> > > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year
> > > longer tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that
> > > when I'm home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour
> > > back home
> > > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
> > > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
> > > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
> > > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely
> > > come when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current
> > > chapter if they don't take their desire for student members and what
> > > is accessible to them into consideration.
> > > --
> > > Kaiti Shelton
> > > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> > > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
> > > Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
> > > Division
> > > 2015-2016
> > >
> > > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail
> > > .c
> > > om
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet10
> > > 4%
> > > 40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Kaiti Shelton
> >University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> >President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org



From dsmithnfb at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 03:03:50 2015
From: dsmithnfb at gmail.com (Darian Smith)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 21:03:50 -0600
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <107ACEE6-B04A-427E-A337-2196416CEFA9@gmail.com>

Kaiti and all,
 
  I like the ideas that are coming out of this  thread.
  I would most certainly agree that, there isn’t one way to go about most  anything in the NFB (at least from what I’ve seen.
 I like Arielle’s suggestions on how to work with  the chapter without being on a board and think that your thoughts and  ideas are valuable no matter how your involvement might come  about...
  Have you been able to find out the reasoning behind  the  meeting time being what it is and the willingness of chapter members to consider a change.
 I may have touched on this earlier on in the week but sometimes  it isn’t the easiest thing in the world for a chapter president to propose a alternative meeting time that fits the schedules of the members and the officers.  It might  even pose it’s own difficulties when establishing an appropriate meeting location.
If enough people would benefit from the change in time and a suitable location /time can be suggested that might help things.
 Basically I just want to bring in a different point of view  for the sake of this discussion.
  Darian  .
       .
           
> On Sep 20, 2015, at 5:15 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter does something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the "NFB way."
> 
> Dave
> 
> At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
>> Hello Kaiti,
>> 
>> I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a local
>> chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the NFB is one
>> of the things I do not like about the organization. In this second email,
>> you state this is not the NFB you know because you believe it is important
>> for other members and chapter leaders to show other people they care about
>> them as people in all situations of their lives as members of the
>> organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you know, but it is definitely the
>> NFB I know, so it really does not surprise me to hear you have been treated
>> this way.
>> 
>> I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how to go
>> about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been said, so I
>> will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions for you.
>> 
>> If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis, is
>> there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
>> committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we usually
>> have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer picnic and
>> the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such a committee
>> even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps serving on such a
>> committee would make the chapter President more open to changing the time
>> and date of the event so you could attend it.
>> 
>> Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that take
>> place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
>> Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
>> chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments would
>> allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are more
>> businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could do as a
>> chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other better. So
>> perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night where chapter
>> members could play various card games and board games. Or you could organize
>> something more like a Braille club meeting, book club meeting, or NFB
>> philosophy discussions if you are more interested in having a more tailored
>> discussion about blindness or the NFB.
>> 
>> I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
>> might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not able
>> to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it is
>> perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it does
>> not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may encourage you
>> to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or not they make you
>> feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to be involved because of
>> your schedule is up to you and not them. It is not selfish to put yourself
>> first because we are not able to be there for others if we do not look after
>> ourselves first.
>> 
>> Warm regards,
>> Elizabeth
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti Shelton
>> via nabs-l
>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
>> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>> 
>> Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to see
>> what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
>> 
>> I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as accommodating
>> as he can for the current chapter members, and especially as I would be the
>> new person coming in I can't expect them to shift meetings around to suit my
>> individual schedule, but I do think the current time could be problematic.
>> The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more students
>> like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the people he'd be
>> looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.
>> 
>> I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
>> 9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I would
>> be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her it
>> coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a night
>> class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," like she was
>> trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a *final exam* in a class
>> that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing that happens; they want me
>> to drop everything for the chapter, and while the chapter is important I am
>> not prepared or willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the
>> president that I can't attend October's meeting, or the January meetings,
>> because I will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go
>> home and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we
>> wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm
>> breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different
>> because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of break,
>> but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when I
>> don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
>> This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it falls
>> on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
>> 
>> There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in the
>> area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to disability
>> services staff to circulate information on the student division and have
>> been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  I know a grand total
>> of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the area; 2 are already in
>> contact with the chapter president, and the other is affiliated with ACB.
>> Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
>> before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
>> session at the other college to see if the blind students would come out to
>> hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
>> something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set that up
>> at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on it.  It makes
>> telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter very confusing.
>> 
>> I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays earlier
>> in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, though that
>> could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
>> I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting because A
>> it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I can still get
>> things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
>> There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for students as
>> a collective, though.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her message,
>> because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it has to do a
>> little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to come to chapter
>> meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for student life going on
>> (someone else mentioned that disconnect between the older and younger
>> generations as well), but I feel from the chapter that I am being pressured
>> to choose between student life, which is limitted at this point, and joining
>> the NFB.  In frustration I've said no to the chapter to this point because
>> with the student division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm
>> getting the best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position
>> to try to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
>> having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been
>> getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
>> or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
>> mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
>> Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
>> 
>> The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
>> saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses from
>> students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over again I
>> would think that, especially if they come from different people including
>> those who already support the Federation, they might be legitimate conflicts
>> with chapter meetings that I would examine further to allow for the younger
>> generation to better attend.
>> If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be so
>> disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for the
>> chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
>> That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have chapters,
>> so it is important to show that we care about each other as people in
>> different life situations in order to foster a sense of community within the
>> chapter organizations.
>> 
>> I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not my
>> top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I don't
>> feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and the December
>> meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to begin with.
>> 
>> On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> > Kaiti,
>> >
>> > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
>> > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on
>> > a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do
>> > marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger
>> > priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered
>> > though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did not have the
>> > time to commit to get the job done right. Could I gather a group of
>> > prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a self-sustained
>> > group that would last beyond the first two or three meetings? Not
>> > likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the perfect meeting time
>> > for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good leader at any
>> > level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone could
>> > contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a
>> > month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president
>> > here, but another option worth considering is organizing a student
>> > group on campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that
>> > is both convenient and a location that is accessible for you guys.
>> > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
>> > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
>> > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
>> > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
>> > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where NABS
>> > is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
>> > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
>> > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
>> > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
>> > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
>> > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
>> > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
>> >
>> > Joe
>> >
>> > --
>> > Musings of a Work in Progress:
>> > www.JoeOrozco.com/
>> >
>> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>> > Shelton via nabs-l
>> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>> > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>> >
>> > Hi all,
>> >
>> > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>> > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>> > trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>> > in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>> > way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis as
>> I would like to do.
>> > Chapter
>> > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
>> > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will not
>> > do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of
>> > the two chapters gets this a little better than the other now, and has
>> > pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to have you when
>> > we can get you here,"
>> > reception.
>> > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>> > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>> > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>> > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>> > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>> > can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>> > and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>> >
>> > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>> > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>> > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>> > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>> > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>> > what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>> > difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>> > they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>> > nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>> > and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>> > something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>> > scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>> > part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>> > attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>> > giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>> > extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>> > music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>> > lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>> > ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>> > scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>> > change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I have
>> had difficulty in getting there.
>> >
>> > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>> > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>> > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>> > isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>> > cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>> > would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>> > understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>> > students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>> > classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>> > weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>> > students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>> > engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>> > networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>> > long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>> > mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>> > want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>> > of undergrad.
>> >
>> > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>> > to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>> > and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>> > isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>> > day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>> > chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>> > they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>> > people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>> > the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>> > president would like to see join the chapter.
>> >
>> > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>> > am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>> > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>> > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>> > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>> > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>> > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>> > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>> > push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>> > because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>> > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>> > tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>> > home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>> > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>> > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>> > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>> > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>> > when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>> > if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>> > accessible to them into consideration.
>> > --
>> > Kaiti Shelton
>> > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>> > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
>> > The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division
>> > 2015-2016
>> >
>> > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.c
>> > om
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nabs-l mailing list
>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nabs-l:
>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>> > 40gmail.com
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Kaiti Shelton
>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The
>> National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016
> 
>        David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
> E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
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From crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 21 03:57:32 2015
From: crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com (Kaiti Shelton)
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2015 23:57:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <107ACEE6-B04A-427E-A337-2196416CEFA9@gmail.com>
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	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
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	<107ACEE6-B04A-427E-A337-2196416CEFA9@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAFja7FaKZznyfHTgEp3HkmV4j6cPf5PCG31Dnr4ES5y2d0Wipw@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all,

First, I'll start by addressing what seems to be the more heated part
of the discussion since earlier today.  When I said that this wasn't
the NFB way I knew, I really did mean it.  I've never really had a bad
experience like this so far.  My affiliate welcomed me in with open
arms as a scholarship winner in 2012 and I haven't turned back since.
I am currently a dues-paid member of the Cincinnati chapter, but
haven't found it very easy to attend chapter meetings there either.
They were the chapter with the "come when you can" attitude I
mentioned in my first post, actually.  I do go to chapter metings when
I am home and able to go, and I even participated in the
Braille-a-thon event they had this summer which was a blend of
fundraising and advocacy in the community.  For a long time I have
been encouraged to be a dues-paid member of both chapters, though I
have had a little more success with Cincinnati than Dayton so that is
why I paid there.  Nevertheless, I wouldn't consider myself an "active
member."  The one good thing about that chapter, though I don't know
much of the internal politics and how they run having only attended
meetings here and there, is that they are accepting of my other
responsibilities and are willing to still let me participate as I am
able.  The other chapter has never turned me away from something, but
they've had a different attitude when I decline to do things.  I've
had wonderful experiences with the NFB at the national level and in
many other capacities through divisions and the like, so I do not
think negative experiences can be generalized; however, I can
understand that particular chapters might have negative impacts on
individuals and leave a sour taste for the organization at times.

I'll see what happens, and if the other two I know are even interested
in joining the chapter.  Timing is definitely going to be the hot
issue.  I also recognize that while I'm the type of person who will
get up early on Saturdays (I usually do grocery runs around 8:00 to
beat the crowds), not everyone would want to do that depending on
their location in relation to the meeting place notwithstanding those
older folks who are already in the chapter.

At this point I'm a little frustrated so I'm not sure I want to do
anything with the chapter for now.  That could change and it probably
will, but for now I don't really want to do any committee work or
organizing beyond what I'm already doing.  Though it is not affiliated
with the NFB a group another student and I established on my campus
for disability awareness is going to do some of the same types of
things on a general scope for all disabilities, like host an
accessible movie night for the community where we show a described
movie with sign language interpretation for the deaf, and simulations
which are carefully planned to teach others about disabilities with
positive interactions with disabled people (we actually are using
Arielle's recent Braille Monitor article as a reference for those).
I'm treasurer and in charge of fundraising for that club, so possibly
that could be where I do some good work that will be helpful once I am
able to transition into chapter life.  I'll still try to attend events
when I can and work out things with the president so that hopefully he
understands where the disconnect is, but I'm not in a position to
start something new this semester in terms of a braille club or
something.

On 9/20/15, Darian Smith via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Kaiti and all,
>
>   I like the ideas that are coming out of this  thread.
>   I would most certainly agree that, there isn’t one way to go about most
> anything in the NFB (at least from what I’ve seen.
>  I like Arielle’s suggestions on how to work with  the chapter without being
> on a board and think that your thoughts and  ideas are valuable no matter
> how your involvement might come  about...
>   Have you been able to find out the reasoning behind  the  meeting time
> being what it is and the willingness of chapter members to consider a
> change.
>  I may have touched on this earlier on in the week but sometimes  it isn’t
> the easiest thing in the world for a chapter president to propose a
> alternative meeting time that fits the schedules of the members and the
> officers.  It might  even pose it’s own difficulties when establishing an
> appropriate meeting location.
> If enough people would benefit from the change in time and a suitable
> location /time can be suggested that might help things.
>  Basically I just want to bring in a different point of view  for the sake
> of this discussion.
>   Darian  .
>        .
>
>> On Sep 20, 2015, at 5:15 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter does
>> something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the "NFB
>> way."
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>
>>> I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a local
>>> chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the NFB is
>>> one
>>> of the things I do not like about the organization. In this second email,
>>> you state this is not the NFB you know because you believe it is
>>> important
>>> for other members and chapter leaders to show other people they care
>>> about
>>> them as people in all situations of their lives as members of the
>>> organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you know, but it is definitely
>>> the
>>> NFB I know, so it really does not surprise me to hear you have been
>>> treated
>>> this way.
>>>
>>> I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how to
>>> go
>>> about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been said,
>>> so I
>>> will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions for you.
>>>
>>> If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis, is
>>> there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
>>> committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we
>>> usually
>>> have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer picnic and
>>> the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such a committee
>>> even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps serving on such
>>> a
>>> committee would make the chapter President more open to changing the time
>>> and date of the event so you could attend it.
>>>
>>> Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that
>>> take
>>> place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
>>> Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
>>> chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments would
>>> allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are more
>>> businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could do as a
>>> chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other better.
>>> So
>>> perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night where chapter
>>> members could play various card games and board games. Or you could
>>> organize
>>> something more like a Braille club meeting, book club meeting, or NFB
>>> philosophy discussions if you are more interested in having a more
>>> tailored
>>> discussion about blindness or the NFB.
>>>
>>> I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
>>> might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not
>>> able
>>> to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it is
>>> perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it does
>>> not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may encourage
>>> you
>>> to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or not they make
>>> you
>>> feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to be involved because
>>> of
>>> your schedule is up to you and not them. It is not selfish to put
>>> yourself
>>> first because we are not able to be there for others if we do not look
>>> after
>>> ourselves first.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> via nabs-l
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
>>> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>>>
>>> Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to
>>> see
>>> what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
>>>
>>> I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as
>>> accommodating
>>> as he can for the current chapter members, and especially as I would be
>>> the
>>> new person coming in I can't expect them to shift meetings around to suit
>>> my
>>> individual schedule, but I do think the current time could be
>>> problematic.
>>> The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more
>>> students
>>> like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the people he'd
>>> be
>>> looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.
>>>
>>> I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
>>> 9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I
>>> would
>>> be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her it
>>> coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a night
>>> class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," like she
>>> was
>>> trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a *final exam* in a
>>> class
>>> that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing that happens; they want
>>> me
>>> to drop everything for the chapter, and while the chapter is important I
>>> am
>>> not prepared or willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the
>>> president that I can't attend October's meeting, or the January meetings,
>>> because I will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go
>>> home and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because
>>> we
>>> wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm
>>> breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different
>>> because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of
>>> break,
>>> but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when
>>> I
>>> don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
>>> This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it
>>> falls
>>> on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
>>>
>>> There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in the
>>> area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to
>>> disability
>>> services staff to circulate information on the student division and have
>>> been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  I know a grand
>>> total
>>> of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the area; 2 are already in
>>> contact with the chapter president, and the other is affiliated with ACB.
>>> Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
>>> before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
>>> session at the other college to see if the blind students would come out
>>> to
>>> hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
>>> something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set that
>>> up
>>> at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on it.  It
>>> makes
>>> telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter very confusing.
>>>
>>> I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
>>> earlier
>>> in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, though that
>>> could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
>>> I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting because
>>> A
>>> it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I can still
>>> get
>>> things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
>>> There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for students
>>> as
>>> a collective, though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her
>>> message,
>>> because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it has to do a
>>> little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to come to chapter
>>> meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for student life going on
>>> (someone else mentioned that disconnect between the older and younger
>>> generations as well), but I feel from the chapter that I am being
>>> pressured
>>> to choose between student life, which is limitted at this point, and
>>> joining
>>> the NFB.  In frustration I've said no to the chapter to this point
>>> because
>>> with the student division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm
>>> getting the best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board
>>> position
>>> to try to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
>>> having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have been
>>> getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
>>> or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
>>> mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
>>> Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
>>>
>>> The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
>>> saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses
>>> from
>>> students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over again I
>>> would think that, especially if they come from different people including
>>> those who already support the Federation, they might be legitimate
>>> conflicts
>>> with chapter meetings that I would examine further to allow for the
>>> younger
>>> generation to better attend.
>>> If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be
>>> so
>>> disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for the
>>> chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
>>> That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have
>>> chapters,
>>> so it is important to show that we care about each other as people in
>>> different life situations in order to foster a sense of community within
>>> the
>>> chapter organizations.
>>>
>>> I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not my
>>> top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I don't
>>> feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and the
>>> December
>>> meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to begin with.
>>>
>>> On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> > Kaiti,
>>> >
>>> > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
>>> > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on
>>> > a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do
>>> > marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger
>>> > priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered
>>> > though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did not have the
>>> > time to commit to get the job done right. Could I gather a group of
>>> > prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a self-sustained
>>> > group that would last beyond the first two or three meetings? Not
>>> > likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the perfect meeting time
>>> > for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good leader at any
>>> > level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone could
>>> > contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a
>>> > month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president
>>> > here, but another option worth considering is organizing a student
>>> > group on campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that
>>> > is both convenient and a location that is accessible for you guys.
>>> > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
>>> > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
>>> > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
>>> > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
>>> > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where NABS
>>> > is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
>>> > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
>>> > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
>>> > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
>>> > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
>>> > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
>>> > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
>>> >
>>> > Joe
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Musings of a Work in Progress:
>>> > www.JoeOrozco.com/
>>> >
>>> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> > Shelton via nabs-l
>>> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>>> > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>>> > trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>>> > in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>>> > way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
>>> > as
>>> I would like to do.
>>> > Chapter
>>> > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
>>> > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will not
>>> > do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of
>>> > the two chapters gets this a little better than the other now, and has
>>> > pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to have you when
>>> > we can get you here,"
>>> > reception.
>>> > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>>> > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>>> > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>>> > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>>> > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>>> > can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>>> > and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>>> >
>>> > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>>> > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>>> > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>>> > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>>> > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>>> > what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>>> > difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>>> > they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>>> > nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>>> > and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>>> > something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>>> > scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>>> > part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>>> > attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>>> > giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>>> > extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>>> > music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>>> > lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>>> > ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>>> > scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>>> > change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
>>> > have
>>> had difficulty in getting there.
>>> >
>>> > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>>> > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>>> > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>>> > isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>>> > cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>>> > would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>>> > understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>>> > students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>>> > classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>>> > weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>>> > students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>>> > engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>>> > networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>>> > long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>>> > mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>>> > want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>>> > of undergrad.
>>> >
>>> > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>>> > to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>>> > and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>>> > isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>>> > day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>>> > chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>>> > they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>>> > people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>>> > the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>>> > president would like to see join the chapter.
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>>> > am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>>> > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>>> > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>>> > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>>> > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>>> > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>>> > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>>> > push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>>> > because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>>> > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>>> > tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>>> > home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>>> > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>>> > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>>> > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>>> > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>>> > when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>>> > if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>>> > accessible to them into consideration.
>>> > --
>>> > Kaiti Shelton
>>> > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
>>> > The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division
>>> > 2015-2016
>>> >
>>> > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.c
>>> > om
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>> > 40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The
>>> National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016
>>
>>        David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
>> E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"


From lizmohnke at hotmail.com  Mon Sep 21 14:12:35 2015
From: lizmohnke at hotmail.com (Elizabeth Mohnke)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:12:35 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <auto-000037172368@mailfront1.g2host.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<COL401-EAS3462166D3604538D98B01DCBA460@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000037172368@mailfront1.g2host.com>
Message-ID: <COL401-EAS44163C2BCBC4BFA3685AA55BA460@phx.gbl>

Hello Dave,

Since your message was in response to my message, I thought it was targeted
to me. Please forgive me for automatically jumping to this conclusion
without considering the possibility it could have simply been a general
statement that was not specifically intended for me.

I think when people are treated a certain way by other members and leaders
of the NFB, and this happens with various NFB members and leaders from
across the country, it is difficult not to conclude this is just simply the
way NFB members and leaders treat other people.

I am sure there are probably some positive aspects to my experience with the
NFB, but right now it is difficult for me to identify any of them. Perhaps
as I detach myself from all the negative things the NFB has brought into my
life, I might be able to see some of the more positive things the NFB has
brought into my life.

Warm regards,
Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: David Andrews [mailto:dandrews at visi.com] 
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 9:25 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>;
'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters

My message was not just aimed at you -- although I suppose it was a little.
I am sorry for the negative experiences that you have had.  The NFB has done
me a lot of good over the years, and I like it when it can do the same for
others. I am sorry that this is not your experience.  Without meaning to
sound harsh though I would add that we live in a grey world, nothing is
usually just black, or white.  It is likely that both you and your local NFB
have done things which have hurt your relationship.  I am sorry and hope
that all can get past what has happened previously.

Dave

At 07:54 PM 9/20/2015, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l wrote:
>Hello Dave,
>
>I am sorry to hear you took my personal experience with the NFB as a 
>broad generalization about the organization. Unfortunately, my overall 
>experience with the NFB has not been a very positive one, and besides a 
>few rare exceptions, I have never really received the positive support 
>and encouragement I hear other people talk about receiving as members 
>of the NFB. This has been something I have experienced at all levels of 
>the organization. Therefore, it does not surprise me to hear Kaiti talk 
>about being treated this way. From my point of view, this just seems to 
>be the way the NFB operates as an organization. However, I am not going 
>to deny my negative experience with the NFB simply because other people 
>do not believe my negative experience with the NFB could possibly be true.
>
>Warm regards,
>Elizabeth
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of David 
>Andrews via nabs-l
>Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 7:16 PM
>To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list 
><nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>Cc: David Andrews <dandrews at visi.com>
>Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
>I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter 
>does something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is 
>the "NFB way."
>
>Dave
>
>At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
> >Hello Kaiti,
> >
> >I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a 
> >local chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the 
> >NFB is one of the things I do not like about the organization. In 
> >this second email, you state this is not the NFB you know because you 
> >believe it is important for other members and chapter leaders to show 
> >other people they care about them as people in all situations of 
> >their lives as members of the organization. Perhaps this is not the 
> >NFB you know, but it is definitely the NFB I know, so it really does 
> >not surprise me to hear you have been treated this way.
> >
> >I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to 
> >how to go about handling this situation. I agree with what has 
> >already been said, so I will not repeat it. However, I do have some 
> >other suggestions
>for you.
> >
> >If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular 
> >basis, is there any way you could get involved in the chapter by 
> >serving on a committee that meets at a different time? I know for our 
> >chapter, we usually have a committee who help plan and organize the 
> >chapter summer picnic and the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you 
> >could serve on such a committee even if you are not able to attend 
> >the event, or perhaps serving on such a committee would make the 
> >chapter President more open to changing the time and date of the event so
you could attend it.
> >
> >Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings 
> >that take place at a different date and time than the regular chapter
meetings.
> >Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular 
> >chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments 
> >would allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are 
> >more businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could 
> >do as a chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each 
> >other better. So perhaps you could organize something fun like a game 
> >night where chapter members could play various card games and board 
> >games. Or you could organize something more like a Braille club 
> >meeting, book club meeting, or NFB philosophy discussions if you are 
> >more interested in having a more tailored discussion about blindness or
the NFB.
> >
> >I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how 
> >you might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you 
> >are not able to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, 
> >I think it is perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local 
> >chapter if it does not fit into your schedule. Other members of the 
> >chapter may encourage you to become more involved with the chapter, 
> >but whether or not they make you feel guilty about the fact that you 
> >are not able to be involved because of your schedule is up to you and 
> >not them. It is not selfish to put yourself first because we are not 
> >able to be there for others if we do not look after ourselves first.
> >
> >Warm regards,
> >Elizabeth
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti 
> >Shelton via nabs-l
> >Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
> >To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students 
> >mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> >Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
> >Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> >
> >Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post 
> >to see what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
> >
> >I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as 
> >accommodating as he can for the current chapter members, and 
> >especially as I would be the new person coming in I can't expect them 
> >to shift meetings around to suit my individual schedule, but I do 
> >think the current
>time could be problematic.
> >The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more 
> >students like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of 
> >the people he'd be looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars 
> >on the
>weekends.
> >
> >I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
> >9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I 
> >would be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told 
> >her it coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it 
> >was a night class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for
grabs,"
> >like she was trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a 
> >*final exam* in a class that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of 
> >thing that happens; they want me to drop everything for the chapter, 
> >and while the chapter is important I am not prepared or willing to do
that.
> >The same happens when I tell the president that I can't attend 
> >October's meeting, or the January meetings, because I will be home in 
> >Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to go home and have my 
> >family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because we wouldn't be 
> >able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm breaks 
> >like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different 
> >because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of 
> >break, but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with 
> >family when I
>don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
> >This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it 
> >falls on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
> >
> >There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in 
> >the area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to 
> >disability services staff to circulate information on the student 
> >division and have been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.
> >I know a grand total of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the 
> >area; 2 are already in contact with the chapter president, and the 
> >other is
>affiliated with ACB.
> >Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has 
> >said before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some 
> >information session at the other college to see if the blind students 
> >would come out to hear about the chapter, the student division, and 
> >have free pizza or something.  I started by trying to contact people 
> >who could help set that up at the school, but I haven't heard 
> >anything more from him on it.  It makes telling whether or not he 
> >wants students in the
>chapter very confusing.
> >
> >I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays 
> >earlier in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, 
> >though that could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
> >I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting 
> >because A it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so 
> >I can still get things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
> >There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for 
> >students as a collective, though.
> >
> >
> >
> >I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her 
> >message, because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it 
> >has to do a little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to 
> >come to chapter meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for 
> >student life going on (someone else mentioned that disconnect between 
> >the older and younger generations as well), but I feel from the 
> >chapter that I am being pressured to choose between student life, 
> >which is limitted at this point, and joining the NFB.  In frustration 
> >I've said no to the chapter to this point because with the student 
> >division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm getting the 
> >best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board position to try 
> >to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about 
> >having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have 
> >been getting when I
>say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
> >or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is 
> >mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, 
> >"It's Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
> >
> >The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian 
> >was saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten 
> >excuses from students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over 
> >and over again I would think that, especially if they come from 
> >different people including those who already support the Federation, 
> >they might be legitimate conflicts with chapter meetings that I would 
> >examine further to allow for the younger generation to better attend.
> >If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not 
> >be so disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned 
> >for the chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
> >That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have 
> >chapters, so it is important to show that we care about each other as 
> >people in different life situations in order to foster a sense of 
> >community within the chapter organizations.
> >
> >I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's 
> >not my top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle 
> >it I don't feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October 
> >and the December meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a 
> >wash to
>begin with.
> >
> >On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> > > Kaiti,
> > >
> > > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my 
> > > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation 
> > > on a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write 
> > > grants or do marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the 
> > > president's larger priority was me organizing a chapter in my 
> > > local area, and flattered though I was to be considered for the 
> > > task, I knew I did not have the time to commit to get the job done 
> > > right. Could I gather a group of prospective members? Yes. Could I 
> > > whip them into a self-sustained group that would last beyond the 
> > > first two or three meetings? Not likely. Like others have pointed 
> > > out, finding the perfect meeting time for a chapter meeting is a 
> > > difficult task, but a good leader at any level of the organization 
> > > would maximize the assistance anyone could contribute, whether it 
> > > be in person or remotely, once a week or once a month. I'm going 
> > > to sound like my own former state affiliate president here, but 
> > > another option worth considering is organizing a student group on 
> > > campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that is 
> > > both convenient and a location
>that is accessible for you guys.
> > > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your 
> > > affiliate that would allow you to remain connected and involved in 
> > > some capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be 
> > > concerned enough to want to know how to stay active in the 
> > > organization. My final thought is that you could be at a season in 
> > > your life where NABS is sufficient given your current schedule. It 
> > > would be great if everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the 
> > > NFB, but then, we'd be sacrificing the opportunities of 
> > > accomplishment we're advocating for. If pressed to choose between 
> > > attending a meeting or being a productive contributor to my 
> > > community at-large, I'd choose the second. That seems a bit blunt, 
> > > but that's part of the ongoing disconnect between the older generation
and the younger membership.
> > >
> > > Joe
> > >
> > > --
> > > Musings of a Work in Progress:
> > > www.JoeOrozco.com/
> > >
> > > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti 
> > > Shelton via nabs-l
> > > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
> > > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> > > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> > > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
> > >
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm 
> > > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and 
> > > I'm trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  
> > > I live in one city and attend school in another, so there off the 
> > > bat is no way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a 
> > > monthly basis as
> >I would like to do.
> > > Chapter
> > > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should 
> > > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will 
> > > not do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.
> > > One of the two chapters gets this a little better than the other 
> > > now, and has pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love 
> > > to have you when we can get you here,"
> > > reception.
> > > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter 
> > > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to 
> > > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I 
> > > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation 
> > > are opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, 
> > > that I can really make a difference, and if I join more students 
> > > will join and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young
people.
> > >
> > > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a 
> > > little confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job 
> > > as a chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and 
> > > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other 
> > > projects in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think 
> > > he understands what it is like for students anymore.  In my 
> > > sophomore year I had difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few
reasons.
> > > One was that they are on the first Saturday or the month, which 
> > > conflicts with nearly every break from school I have including the 
> > > two midterm breaks and the Christmas break.  The Christmas 
> > > spaghetti dinner is also something the chapter tries to get me to 
> > > come to, but it is always scheduled durring my finals week.  When 
> > > I worked on Saturdays at a part time job my sophomore year they 
> > > wanted me to take off work to attend chapter meetings.  At the 
> > > time that was my grocery money, so giving work wasn't something I 
> > > was willing to do; I wanted to pick up extra hours, not throw them 
> > > away.  I also have been in a professional music fraternity since 
> > > the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a lot of our major 
> > > events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging ceremonies, 
> > > etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings scheduled 
> > > from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to 
> > > change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, 
> > > I have
> >had difficulty in getting there.
> > >
> > > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is 
> > > a double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but 
> > > when I tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings 
> > > when the time isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and 
> > > tells me I should cancel work or do what it takes to come to 
> > > chapter meetings because it would benefit the chapter.  I try to 
> > > explain to him that while I do understand personal sacrifices can 
> > > and should be made to an extent, students do not have as much 
> > > flexibility as working people to move classes around in the week, 
> > > and there are only so many hours in the weekend.  Not to mention 
> > > extracurriculars are a good thing for blind students to be 
> > > involved in because it shows peers that we can be engaged and 
> > > active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates networking 
> > > opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as long as 
> > > the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which mine 
> > > are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also want 
> > > to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left of
undergrad.
> > >
> > > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found 
> > > ways to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of 
> > > chapters, and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a 
> > > Saturday probably isn't great for most students since it's right 
> > > in the middle of the day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but 
> > > I feel like if the chapter needs and wants students to join as 
> > > badly as they say they do, they need to make the meeting time more 
> > > accessible to that group of people.  Right now I know it is not 
> > > for me, and I think that is also the case for other 
> > > highly-involved and motivated students who the president would like to
see join the chapter.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, 
> > > but I am open to anything at this point. I really would join the 
> > > local chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently
attend.
> > > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social 
> > > events outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  
> > > I've prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in 
> > > other projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining 
> > > either of these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not 
> > > appreciating the push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm 
> > > making excuses or because I don't want to go; I think work 
> > > conflicts and required fraternity events which I will only be able 
> > > to have for a year longer tops are acceptable reasons to be 
> > > absent, not to mention that when I'm home traveling an hour to the 
> > > meeting and then another hour back home
> > > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I 
> > > am already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time 
> > > is right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively 
> > > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely 
> > > come when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current 
> > > chapter if they don't take their desire for student members and 
> > > what is accessible to them into consideration.
> > > --
> > > Kaiti Shelton
> > > University of Dayton-Music Therapy President, Ohio Association of 
> > > Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, The National Federation of 
> > > the Blind Performing Arts Division
> > > 2015-2016
> > >
> > > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you
back!"
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gma
> > > il
> > > .c
> > > om
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > nabs-l mailing list
> > > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> > > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 
> > > for
> > > nabs-l:
> > > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet
> > > 10
> > > 4%
> > > 40gmail.com
> > >
> >
> >
> >--
> >Kaiti Shelton
> >University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> >President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,

         David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org



From bookwormahb at earthlink.net  Mon Sep 21 14:44:38 2015
From: bookwormahb at earthlink.net (Ashley Bramlett)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 10:44:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <CAFja7FaKZznyfHTgEp3HkmV4j6cPf5PCG31Dnr4ES5y2d0Wipw@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com><000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com><CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com><COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl><auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com><107ACEE6-B04A-427E-A337-2196416CEFA9@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaKZznyfHTgEp3HkmV4j6cPf5PCG31Dnr4ES5y2d0Wipw@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <698C9D0A006043E3B0B5849E5D87F980@OwnerPC>

Kaiti,

I think your concerns are valid and it’s a challenge to  balance all 
commitments.
I think its unfortunate that some chapters are pushy. Some chapters and some 
presidents take an all or nothing approach.
This turns people away from joining, or if they join and take leadership 
roles, they get burned out later on.
I think its unreasonable for someone to expect you to drop other life 
commitments to volunteer to do chapter work.

I think I'd stick with the more open chapter that allows you to come
when you can. As for the other chapter, I'd just stay firm in your position. 
State that while you like the NFB and support it, you have homework to 
complete and other extra curricular obligations and your schedule does not 
permit you to join at this time.

I hope things work out for you!

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 11:57 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Kaiti Shelton
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters

Hi all,

First, I'll start by addressing what seems to be the more heated part
of the discussion since earlier today.  When I said that this wasn't
the NFB way I knew, I really did mean it.  I've never really had a bad
experience like this so far.  My affiliate welcomed me in with open
arms as a scholarship winner in 2012 and I haven't turned back since.
I am currently a dues-paid member of the Cincinnati chapter, but
haven't found it very easy to attend chapter meetings there either.
They were the chapter with the "come when you can" attitude I
mentioned in my first post, actually.  I do go to chapter metings when
I am home and able to go, and I even participated in the
Braille-a-thon event they had this summer which was a blend of
fundraising and advocacy in the community.  For a long time I have
been encouraged to be a dues-paid member of both chapters, though I
have had a little more success with Cincinnati than Dayton so that is
why I paid there.  Nevertheless, I wouldn't consider myself an "active
member."  The one good thing about that chapter, though I don't know
much of the internal politics and how they run having only attended
meetings here and there, is that they are accepting of my other
responsibilities and are willing to still let me participate as I am
able.  The other chapter has never turned me away from something, but
they've had a different attitude when I decline to do things.  I've
had wonderful experiences with the NFB at the national level and in
many other capacities through divisions and the like, so I do not
think negative experiences can be generalized; however, I can
understand that particular chapters might have negative impacts on
individuals and leave a sour taste for the organization at times.

I'll see what happens, and if the other two I know are even interested
in joining the chapter.  Timing is definitely going to be the hot
issue.  I also recognize that while I'm the type of person who will
get up early on Saturdays (I usually do grocery runs around 8:00 to
beat the crowds), not everyone would want to do that depending on
their location in relation to the meeting place notwithstanding those
older folks who are already in the chapter.

At this point I'm a little frustrated so I'm not sure I want to do
anything with the chapter for now.  That could change and it probably
will, but for now I don't really want to do any committee work or
organizing beyond what I'm already doing.  Though it is not affiliated
with the NFB a group another student and I established on my campus
for disability awareness is going to do some of the same types of
things on a general scope for all disabilities, like host an
accessible movie night for the community where we show a described
movie with sign language interpretation for the deaf, and simulations
which are carefully planned to teach others about disabilities with
positive interactions with disabled people (we actually are using
Arielle's recent Braille Monitor article as a reference for those).
I'm treasurer and in charge of fundraising for that club, so possibly
that could be where I do some good work that will be helpful once I am
able to transition into chapter life.  I'll still try to attend events
when I can and work out things with the president so that hopefully he
understands where the disconnect is, but I'm not in a position to
start something new this semester in terms of a braille club or
something.

On 9/20/15, Darian Smith via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Kaiti and all,
>
>   I like the ideas that are coming out of this  thread.
>   I would most certainly agree that, there isn’t one way to go about most
> anything in the NFB (at least from what I’ve seen.
>  I like Arielle’s suggestions on how to work with  the chapter without 
> being
> on a board and think that your thoughts and  ideas are valuable no matter
> how your involvement might come  about...
>   Have you been able to find out the reasoning behind  the  meeting time
> being what it is and the willingness of chapter members to consider a
> change.
>  I may have touched on this earlier on in the week but sometimes  it isn’t
> the easiest thing in the world for a chapter president to propose a
> alternative meeting time that fits the schedules of the members and the
> officers.  It might  even pose it’s own difficulties when establishing an
> appropriate meeting location.
> If enough people would benefit from the change in time and a suitable
> location /time can be suggested that might help things.
>  Basically I just want to bring in a different point of view  for the sake
> of this discussion.
>   Darian  .
>        .
>
>> On Sep 20, 2015, at 5:15 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter 
>> does
>> something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the 
>> "NFB
>> way."
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>
>>> I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a 
>>> local
>>> chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the NFB is
>>> one
>>> of the things I do not like about the organization. In this second 
>>> email,
>>> you state this is not the NFB you know because you believe it is
>>> important
>>> for other members and chapter leaders to show other people they care
>>> about
>>> them as people in all situations of their lives as members of the
>>> organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you know, but it is definitely
>>> the
>>> NFB I know, so it really does not surprise me to hear you have been
>>> treated
>>> this way.
>>>
>>> I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how 
>>> to
>>> go
>>> about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been said,
>>> so I
>>> will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions for you.
>>>
>>> If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis, 
>>> is
>>> there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
>>> committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we
>>> usually
>>> have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer picnic 
>>> and
>>> the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such a committee
>>> even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps serving on such
>>> a
>>> committee would make the chapter President more open to changing the 
>>> time
>>> and date of the event so you could attend it.
>>>
>>> Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that
>>> take
>>> place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
>>> Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
>>> chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments 
>>> would
>>> allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are more
>>> businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could do as a
>>> chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other better.
>>> So
>>> perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night where chapter
>>> members could play various card games and board games. Or you could
>>> organize
>>> something more like a Braille club meeting, book club meeting, or NFB
>>> philosophy discussions if you are more interested in having a more
>>> tailored
>>> discussion about blindness or the NFB.
>>>
>>> I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
>>> might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not
>>> able
>>> to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it is
>>> perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it 
>>> does
>>> not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may encourage
>>> you
>>> to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or not they make
>>> you
>>> feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to be involved because
>>> of
>>> your schedule is up to you and not them. It is not selfish to put
>>> yourself
>>> first because we are not able to be there for others if we do not look
>>> after
>>> ourselves first.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> via nabs-l
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
>>> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>> list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>>>
>>> Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to
>>> see
>>> what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
>>>
>>> I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as
>>> accommodating
>>> as he can for the current chapter members, and especially as I would be
>>> the
>>> new person coming in I can't expect them to shift meetings around to 
>>> suit
>>> my
>>> individual schedule, but I do think the current time could be
>>> problematic.
>>> The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more
>>> students
>>> like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the people 
>>> he'd
>>> be
>>> looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.
>>>
>>> I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
>>> 9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I
>>> would
>>> be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her it
>>> coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a night
>>> class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," like she
>>> was
>>> trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a *final exam* in a
>>> class
>>> that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing that happens; they want
>>> me
>>> to drop everything for the chapter, and while the chapter is important I
>>> am
>>> not prepared or willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the
>>> president that I can't attend October's meeting, or the January 
>>> meetings,
>>> because I will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to 
>>> go
>>> home and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because
>>> we
>>> wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm
>>> breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different
>>> because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of
>>> break,
>>> but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when
>>> I
>>> don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
>>> This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it
>>> falls
>>> on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
>>>
>>> There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in the
>>> area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to
>>> disability
>>> services staff to circulate information on the student division and have
>>> been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  I know a grand
>>> total
>>> of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the area; 2 are already in
>>> contact with the chapter president, and the other is affiliated with 
>>> ACB.
>>> Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
>>> before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
>>> session at the other college to see if the blind students would come out
>>> to
>>> hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
>>> something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set 
>>> that
>>> up
>>> at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on it.  It
>>> makes
>>> telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter very confusing.
>>>
>>> I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
>>> earlier
>>> in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, though that
>>> could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
>>> I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting because
>>> A
>>> it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I can still
>>> get
>>> things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
>>> There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for 
>>> students
>>> as
>>> a collective, though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her
>>> message,
>>> because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it has to do a
>>> little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to come to 
>>> chapter
>>> meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for student life going on
>>> (someone else mentioned that disconnect between the older and younger
>>> generations as well), but I feel from the chapter that I am being
>>> pressured
>>> to choose between student life, which is limitted at this point, and
>>> joining
>>> the NFB.  In frustration I've said no to the chapter to this point
>>> because
>>> with the student division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm
>>> getting the best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board
>>> position
>>> to try to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
>>> having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have 
>>> been
>>> getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
>>> or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
>>> mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
>>> Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
>>>
>>> The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
>>> saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses
>>> from
>>> students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over again 
>>> I
>>> would think that, especially if they come from different people 
>>> including
>>> those who already support the Federation, they might be legitimate
>>> conflicts
>>> with chapter meetings that I would examine further to allow for the
>>> younger
>>> generation to better attend.
>>> If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be
>>> so
>>> disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for the
>>> chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
>>> That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have
>>> chapters,
>>> so it is important to show that we care about each other as people in
>>> different life situations in order to foster a sense of community within
>>> the
>>> chapter organizations.
>>>
>>> I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not 
>>> my
>>> top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I 
>>> don't
>>> feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and the
>>> December
>>> meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to begin with.
>>>
>>> On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> > Kaiti,
>>> >
>>> > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
>>> > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on
>>> > a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do
>>> > marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger
>>> > priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered
>>> > though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did not have the
>>> > time to commit to get the job done right. Could I gather a group of
>>> > prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a self-sustained
>>> > group that would last beyond the first two or three meetings? Not
>>> > likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the perfect meeting time
>>> > for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good leader at any
>>> > level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone could
>>> > contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a
>>> > month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president
>>> > here, but another option worth considering is organizing a student
>>> > group on campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that
>>> > is both convenient and a location that is accessible for you guys.
>>> > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
>>> > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
>>> > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
>>> > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
>>> > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where NABS
>>> > is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
>>> > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
>>> > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
>>> > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
>>> > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
>>> > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
>>> > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
>>> >
>>> > Joe
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Musings of a Work in Progress:
>>> > www.JoeOrozco.com/
>>> >
>>> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>> >
>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> > Shelton via nabs-l
>>> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>>> >
>>> > Hi all,
>>> >
>>> > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>>> > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>>> > trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>>> > in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>>> > way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
>>> > as
>>> I would like to do.
>>> > Chapter
>>> > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
>>> > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will not
>>> > do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of
>>> > the two chapters gets this a little better than the other now, and has
>>> > pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to have you when
>>> > we can get you here,"
>>> > reception.
>>> > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>>> > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>>> > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>>> > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>>> > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>>> > can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>>> > and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>>> >
>>> > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>>> > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>>> > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>>> > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>>> > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>>> > what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>>> > difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>>> > they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>>> > nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>>> > and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>>> > something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>>> > scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>>> > part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>>> > attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>>> > giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>>> > extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>>> > music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>>> > lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>>> > ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>>> > scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>>> > change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
>>> > have
>>> had difficulty in getting there.
>>> >
>>> > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>>> > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>>> > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>>> > isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>>> > cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>>> > would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>>> > understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>>> > students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>>> > classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>>> > weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>>> > students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>>> > engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>>> > networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>>> > long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>>> > mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>>> > want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>>> > of undergrad.
>>> >
>>> > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>>> > to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>>> > and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>>> > isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>>> > day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>>> > chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>>> > they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>>> > people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>>> > the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>>> > president would like to see join the chapter.
>>> >
>>> > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>>> > am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>>> > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>>> > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>>> > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>>> > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>>> > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>>> > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>>> > push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>>> > because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>>> > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>>> > tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>>> > home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>>> > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>>> > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>>> > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>>> > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>>> > when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>>> > if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>>> > accessible to them into consideration.
>>> > --
>>> > Kaiti Shelton
>>> > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
>>> > The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division
>>> > 2015-2016
>>> >
>>> > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you 
>>> > back!"
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.c
>>> > om
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> > nabs-l:
>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>> > 40gmail.com
>>> >
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary, 
>>> The
>>> National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016
>>
>>        David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
>> E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
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http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net 



From arielle71 at gmail.com  Tue Sep 22 03:19:51 2015
From: arielle71 at gmail.com (Arielle Silverman)
Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2015 20:19:51 -0700
Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
In-Reply-To: <698C9D0A006043E3B0B5849E5D87F980@OwnerPC>
References: <CAFja7FbUpBXa_ztHcpFywgGZrK=85N_Oy3gCsM01Wmm_NAmRDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<000901d0f289$b2b8a0f0$1829e2d0$@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FYiFHYXEQGMQfv4f2+Ex+feZJthac2xkihb-RD9vXxJDw@mail.gmail.com>
	<COL401-EAS3664AA91FE8411A21292DA0BA470@phx.gbl>
	<auto-000036644872@mailfront2.g2host.com>
	<107ACEE6-B04A-427E-A337-2196416CEFA9@gmail.com>
	<CAFja7FaKZznyfHTgEp3HkmV4j6cPf5PCG31Dnr4ES5y2d0Wipw@mail.gmail.com>
	<698C9D0A006043E3B0B5849E5D87F980@OwnerPC>
Message-ID: <CALAYQJD0Nn7ja4_K6CPkrzdKSM1Y8-De0gTmdd5zNLAEM=4fkA@mail.gmail.com>

My (probably) final thought: I don't think the issue of balancing NFB
with other obligations is just limited to students. Working
professionals who may be on call on the weekends, parents with kids
who have Saturday sports games, people with health issues that give
them limited energy, and Orthodox Jews and others with religious
obligations on Saturdays could all potentially have conflicts with
chapter meetings. In my opinion, a good chapter leader should
understand that one meeting time won't fit everyone and that some
people may need to be active in other ways.
Arielle

On 9/21/15, Ashley Bramlett via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Kaiti,
>
> I think your concerns are valid and it’s a challenge to  balance all
> commitments.
> I think its unfortunate that some chapters are pushy. Some chapters and some
> presidents take an all or nothing approach.
> This turns people away from joining, or if they join and take leadership
> roles, they get burned out later on.
> I think its unreasonable for someone to expect you to drop other life
> commitments to volunteer to do chapter work.
>
> I think I'd stick with the more open chapter that allows you to come
> when you can. As for the other chapter, I'd just stay firm in your position.
> State that while you like the NFB and support it, you have homework to
> complete and other extra curricular obligations and your schedule does not
> permit you to join at this time.
>
> I hope things work out for you!
>
> Ashley
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kaiti Shelton via nabs-l
> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 11:57 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
> Cc: Kaiti Shelton
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>
> Hi all,
>
> First, I'll start by addressing what seems to be the more heated part
> of the discussion since earlier today.  When I said that this wasn't
> the NFB way I knew, I really did mean it.  I've never really had a bad
> experience like this so far.  My affiliate welcomed me in with open
> arms as a scholarship winner in 2012 and I haven't turned back since.
> I am currently a dues-paid member of the Cincinnati chapter, but
> haven't found it very easy to attend chapter meetings there either.
> They were the chapter with the "come when you can" attitude I
> mentioned in my first post, actually.  I do go to chapter metings when
> I am home and able to go, and I even participated in the
> Braille-a-thon event they had this summer which was a blend of
> fundraising and advocacy in the community.  For a long time I have
> been encouraged to be a dues-paid member of both chapters, though I
> have had a little more success with Cincinnati than Dayton so that is
> why I paid there.  Nevertheless, I wouldn't consider myself an "active
> member."  The one good thing about that chapter, though I don't know
> much of the internal politics and how they run having only attended
> meetings here and there, is that they are accepting of my other
> responsibilities and are willing to still let me participate as I am
> able.  The other chapter has never turned me away from something, but
> they've had a different attitude when I decline to do things.  I've
> had wonderful experiences with the NFB at the national level and in
> many other capacities through divisions and the like, so I do not
> think negative experiences can be generalized; however, I can
> understand that particular chapters might have negative impacts on
> individuals and leave a sour taste for the organization at times.
>
> I'll see what happens, and if the other two I know are even interested
> in joining the chapter.  Timing is definitely going to be the hot
> issue.  I also recognize that while I'm the type of person who will
> get up early on Saturdays (I usually do grocery runs around 8:00 to
> beat the crowds), not everyone would want to do that depending on
> their location in relation to the meeting place notwithstanding those
> older folks who are already in the chapter.
>
> At this point I'm a little frustrated so I'm not sure I want to do
> anything with the chapter for now.  That could change and it probably
> will, but for now I don't really want to do any committee work or
> organizing beyond what I'm already doing.  Though it is not affiliated
> with the NFB a group another student and I established on my campus
> for disability awareness is going to do some of the same types of
> things on a general scope for all disabilities, like host an
> accessible movie night for the community where we show a described
> movie with sign language interpretation for the deaf, and simulations
> which are carefully planned to teach others about disabilities with
> positive interactions with disabled people (we actually are using
> Arielle's recent Braille Monitor article as a reference for those).
> I'm treasurer and in charge of fundraising for that club, so possibly
> that could be where I do some good work that will be helpful once I am
> able to transition into chapter life.  I'll still try to attend events
> when I can and work out things with the president so that hopefully he
> understands where the disconnect is, but I'm not in a position to
> start something new this semester in terms of a braille club or
> something.
>
> On 9/20/15, Darian Smith via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Kaiti and all,
>>
>>   I like the ideas that are coming out of this  thread.
>>   I would most certainly agree that, there isn’t one way to go about most
>> anything in the NFB (at least from what I’ve seen.
>>  I like Arielle’s suggestions on how to work with  the chapter without
>> being
>> on a board and think that your thoughts and  ideas are valuable no matter
>> how your involvement might come  about...
>>   Have you been able to find out the reasoning behind  the  meeting time
>> being what it is and the willingness of chapter members to consider a
>> change.
>>  I may have touched on this earlier on in the week but sometimes  it isn’t
>> the easiest thing in the world for a chapter president to propose a
>> alternative meeting time that fits the schedules of the members and the
>> officers.  It might  even pose it’s own difficulties when establishing an
>> appropriate meeting location.
>> If enough people would benefit from the change in time and a suitable
>> location /time can be suggested that might help things.
>>  Basically I just want to bring in a different point of view  for the sake
>> of this discussion.
>>   Darian  .
>>        .
>>
>>> On Sep 20, 2015, at 5:15 PM, David Andrews via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would urge people to not make generalizations.  Because one chapter
>>> does
>>> something a certain way, it doesn't necessarily mean that this is the
>>> "NFB
>>> way."
>>>
>>> Dave
>>>
>>> At 04:54 PM 9/20/2015, you wrote:
>>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>>
>>>> I am sorry to hear you are having so much trouble connecting with a
>>>> local
>>>> chapter. The all or nothing approach to being involved with the NFB is
>>>> one
>>>> of the things I do not like about the organization. In this second
>>>> email,
>>>> you state this is not the NFB you know because you believe it is
>>>> important
>>>> for other members and chapter leaders to show other people they care
>>>> about
>>>> them as people in all situations of their lives as members of the
>>>> organization. Perhaps this is not the NFB you know, but it is definitely
>>>> the
>>>> NFB I know, so it really does not surprise me to hear you have been
>>>> treated
>>>> this way.
>>>>
>>>> I think others have already given you some great suggestions as to how
>>>> to
>>>> go
>>>> about handling this situation. I agree with what has already been said,
>>>> so I
>>>> will not repeat it. However, I do have some other suggestions for you.
>>>>
>>>> If you are not able to attend the chapter meetings on a regular basis,
>>>> is
>>>> there any way you could get involved in the chapter by serving on a
>>>> committee that meets at a different time? I know for our chapter, we
>>>> usually
>>>> have a committee who help plan and organize the chapter summer picnic
>>>> and
>>>> the holiday Christmas party. Perhaps you could serve on such a committee
>>>> even if you are not able to attend the event, or perhaps serving on such
>>>> a
>>>> committee would make the chapter President more open to changing the
>>>> time
>>>> and date of the event so you could attend it.
>>>>
>>>> Also, I have heard of some chapters holding Braille club meetings that
>>>> take
>>>> place at a different date and time than the regular chapter meetings.
>>>> Perhaps you could start something like this to compliment the regular
>>>> chapter meetings providing your schedule and other time commitments
>>>> would
>>>> allow you to do something like this. Our chapter meetings are more
>>>> businesslike, so lately we have been thinking of things we could do as a
>>>> chapter in a more relaxed environment to get to know each other better.
>>>> So
>>>> perhaps you could organize something fun like a game night where chapter
>>>> members could play various card games and board games. Or you could
>>>> organize
>>>> something more like a Braille club meeting, book club meeting, or NFB
>>>> philosophy discussions if you are more interested in having a more
>>>> tailored
>>>> discussion about blindness or the NFB.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this email provides you with some more options regarding how you
>>>> might be able to get involved with a local chapter even if you are not
>>>> able
>>>> to attend chapter meetings on a regular basis. However, I think it is
>>>> perfectly fine for you not to be involved with a local chapter if it
>>>> does
>>>> not fit into your schedule. Other members of the chapter may encourage
>>>> you
>>>> to become more involved with the chapter, but whether or not they make
>>>> you
>>>> feel guilty about the fact that you are not able to be involved because
>>>> of
>>>> your schedule is up to you and not them. It is not selfish to put
>>>> yourself
>>>> first because we are not able to be there for others if we do not look
>>>> after
>>>> ourselves first.
>>>>
>>>> Warm regards,
>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>>> Shelton
>>>> via nabs-l
>>>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2015 4:07 PM
>>>> To: jsoro620 at gmail.com; National Association of Blind Students mailing
>>>> list
>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>>>>
>>>> Thanks all for your comments.  I've hung back since my initial post to
>>>> see
>>>> what would come from this thread, and it has been well-worth it.
>>>>
>>>> I do recognize that the chapter president has tried to be as
>>>> accommodating
>>>> as he can for the current chapter members, and especially as I would be
>>>> the
>>>> new person coming in I can't expect them to shift meetings around to
>>>> suit
>>>> my
>>>> individual schedule, but I do think the current time could be
>>>> problematic.
>>>> The president keeps saying, "You should join because we want more
>>>> students
>>>> like you in the chapter," but if that is the case most of the people
>>>> he'd
>>>> be
>>>> looking at are pretty busy with extracurriculars on the weekends.
>>>>
>>>> I remember last December durring my finals week I got a call around
>>>> 9:00 in the morning from one of the chapter board members asking if I
>>>> would
>>>> be attending the spaghetti dinner I mentioned before.  I told her it
>>>> coincided with an exam I had that night starting at 5:00 (it was a night
>>>> class).  She said, "But we have a board position up for grabs," like she
>>>> was
>>>> trying to entice me to coming in even though I had a *final exam* in a
>>>> class
>>>> that I couldn't miss.  That's the kind of thing that happens; they want
>>>> me
>>>> to drop everything for the chapter, and while the chapter is important I
>>>> am
>>>> not prepared or willing to do that.  The same happens when I tell the
>>>> president that I can't attend October's meeting, or the January
>>>> meetings,
>>>> because I will be home in Cincinnati with my family.  I'm not going to
>>>> go
>>>> home and have my family drive me back to Dayton for the meeting because
>>>> we
>>>> wouldn't be able to go back home again, and I'd like to take my midterm
>>>> breaks like every other student does.  That situation is a bit different
>>>> because in theory I could stay at my house on campus for the rest of
>>>> break,
>>>> but I'd be giving up at least 2 days that I could spend with family when
>>>> I
>>>> don't go home much over the semester to begin with.
>>>> This is precisely why I can't attend October's meeting this year; it
>>>> falls
>>>> on the Saturday that is durring our fall break.
>>>>
>>>> There are a ton of blind students who attend the other university in the
>>>> area, but I don't know who they are.  I've tried reaching out to
>>>> disability
>>>> services staff to circulate information on the student division and have
>>>> been unsuccessful in reaching anyone from the school.  I know a grand
>>>> total
>>>> of 3 other blind people in their twenties in the area; 2 are already in
>>>> contact with the chapter president, and the other is affiliated with
>>>> ACB.
>>>> Furthermore on the other college issue, the chapter president has said
>>>> before that he wanted to collaborate with me to put on some information
>>>> session at the other college to see if the blind students would come out
>>>> to
>>>> hear about the chapter, the student division, and have free pizza or
>>>> something.  I started by trying to contact people who could help set
>>>> that
>>>> up
>>>> at the school, but I haven't heard anything more from him on it.  It
>>>> makes
>>>> telling whether or not he wants students in the chapter very confusing.
>>>>
>>>> I know personally week nights would work better for me, or Saturdays
>>>> earlier
>>>> in the day.  I'm also able to do almost anything on Sundays, though that
>>>> could be problematic with people who want to go to church.
>>>> I'd much rather get up early and go to a 9:00 AM chapter meeting because
>>>> A
>>>> it's free in my schedule, and B it's earlier in the day so I can still
>>>> get
>>>> things done like grocery runs and things of that nature.
>>>> There really isn't a good way to pole what would work better for
>>>> students
>>>> as
>>>> a collective, though.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'm very interested in the deeper issue Arielle singled out in her
>>>> message,
>>>> because that really is the route of the problem.  Perhaps it has to do a
>>>> little bit with the tone of the ways I have been asked to come to
>>>> chapter
>>>> meetings and how I feel there is a disregard for student life going on
>>>> (someone else mentioned that disconnect between the older and younger
>>>> generations as well), but I feel from the chapter that I am being
>>>> pressured
>>>> to choose between student life, which is limitted at this point, and
>>>> joining
>>>> the NFB.  In frustration I've said no to the chapter to this point
>>>> because
>>>> with the student division in Ohio and affiliate projects I feel like I'm
>>>> getting the best of both worlds.  I don't feel like using a board
>>>> position
>>>> to try to entice a student to the meetings when they are upfront about
>>>> having to take a final exam is very good, nor is the backlash I have
>>>> been
>>>> getting when I say, "This happens on the same weekend as fall break, "
>>>> or "My fraternity is initiating new members today and attendance is
>>>> mandatory by all chapter members/I'm a part of the ritual."  Or, "It's
>>>> Christmas break and I'm not in Dayton right now."
>>>>
>>>> The one thing that does puzzle me is along the lines of what Darian was
>>>> saying.  It is possible that the chapter president has gotten excuses
>>>> from
>>>> students before, but if you hear the same "excuses" over and over again
>>>> I
>>>> would think that, especially if they come from different people
>>>> including
>>>> those who already support the Federation, they might be legitimate
>>>> conflicts
>>>> with chapter meetings that I would examine further to allow for the
>>>> younger
>>>> generation to better attend.
>>>> If he were to ask more questions to get a better answer he might not be
>>>> so
>>>> disconnected.  Right now it just seems like he's only concerned for the
>>>> chapter, not the potential members who would be joining.
>>>> That's not the NFB I know at all.  Without members we do not have
>>>> chapters,
>>>> so it is important to show that we care about each other as people in
>>>> different life situations in order to foster a sense of community within
>>>> the
>>>> chapter organizations.
>>>>
>>>> I might mention this to my state president, but at this point it's not
>>>> my
>>>> top priority.  Now that I have a better sense of how to handle it I
>>>> don't
>>>> feel a rush to do so.  I can't attend at least the October and the
>>>> December
>>>> meetings anyway, so this semester is pretty much a wash to begin with.
>>>>
>>>> On 9/18/15, Joe via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> > Kaiti,
>>>> >
>>>> > I experienced something similar. Now as a working professional, my
>>>> > time is very limited, but I wanted to get back into the Federation on
>>>> > a limited basis, at least to start. I was hoping to write grants or do
>>>> > marketing for my affiliate. Unfortunately the president's larger
>>>> > priority was me organizing a chapter in my local area, and flattered
>>>> > though I was to be considered for the task, I knew I did not have the
>>>> > time to commit to get the job done right. Could I gather a group of
>>>> > prospective members? Yes. Could I whip them into a self-sustained
>>>> > group that would last beyond the first two or three meetings? Not
>>>> > likely. Like others have pointed out, finding the perfect meeting time
>>>> > for a chapter meeting is a difficult task, but a good leader at any
>>>> > level of the organization would maximize the assistance anyone could
>>>> > contribute, whether it be in person or remotely, once a week or once a
>>>> > month. I'm going to sound like my own former state affiliate president
>>>> > here, but another option worth considering is organizing a student
>>>> > group on campus that would give you the flexibility to set a time that
>>>> > is both convenient and a location that is accessible for you guys.
>>>> > Alternatively, perhaps there is a chapter at-large in your affiliate
>>>> > that would allow you to remain connected and involved in some
>>>> > capacity. Either way, I think it commendable of you to be concerned
>>>> > enough to want to know how to stay active in the organization. My
>>>> > final thought is that you could be at a season in your life where NABS
>>>> > is sufficient given your current schedule. It would be great if
>>>> > everyone could sacrifice time and energy for the NFB, but then, we'd
>>>> > be sacrificing the opportunities of accomplishment we're advocating
>>>> > for. If pressed to choose between attending a meeting or being a
>>>> > productive contributor to my community at-large, I'd choose the
>>>> > second. That seems a bit blunt, but that's part of the ongoing
>>>> > disconnect between the older generation and the younger membership.
>>>> >
>>>> > Joe
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > Musings of a Work in Progress:
>>>> > www.JoeOrozco.com/
>>>> >
>>>> > Twitter: @ScribblingJoe
>>>> >
>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>> > From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>>> > Shelton via nabs-l
>>>> > Sent: Friday, September 18, 2015 3:41 AM
>>>> > To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> > Cc: Kaiti Shelton
>>>> > Subject: [nabs-l] Joining local chapters
>>>> >
>>>> > Hi all,
>>>> >
>>>> > I realize this thread may very well spark some debate, but I'm
>>>> > prepared for that.  For the past two years I've had a dilemma and I'm
>>>> > trying to explain it to a chapter president in my affiliate.  I live
>>>> > in one city and attend school in another, so there off the bat is no
>>>> > way I'd be able to attend either chapter's meetings on a monthly basis
>>>> > as
>>>> I would like to do.
>>>> > Chapter
>>>> > presidents in both cities at different times have told me I should
>>>> > join and even consider running for a board position, which I will not
>>>> > do because of my inability to faithfully attend the meetings.  One of
>>>> > the two chapters gets this a little better than the other now, and has
>>>> > pretty much given me a "come when you can, we'd love to have you when
>>>> > we can get you here,"
>>>> > reception.
>>>> > The other chapter is near where I go to school, but the chapter
>>>> > president doesn't seem to get the student thing.  I try to go to
>>>> > things when I can, but I partially dread it because every time I
>>>> > attend some social function the floodgates for this conversation are
>>>> > opened again.  I'm told again that I am needed in the chapter, that I
>>>> > can really make a difference, and if I join more students will join
>>>> > and the chapter is not by any means comprised of young people.
>>>> >
>>>> > This has been happening for two years at least, and I feel a little
>>>> > confused and pressured to join.  I know he is doing his job as a
>>>> > chapter president, especially because he knows I'm active and
>>>> > dedicated to the student division, the affiliate, and other projects
>>>> > in the NFB, but being in that older crowd I don't think he understands
>>>> > what it is like for students anymore.  In my sophomore year I had
>>>> > difficulty attending chapter meetings for a few reasons.  One was that
>>>> > they are on the first Saturday or the month, which conflicts with
>>>> > nearly every break from school I have including the two midterm breaks
>>>> > and the Christmas break.  The Christmas spaghetti dinner is also
>>>> > something the chapter tries to get me to come to, but it is always
>>>> > scheduled durring my finals week.  When I worked on Saturdays at a
>>>> > part time job my sophomore year they wanted me to take off work to
>>>> > attend chapter meetings.  At the time that was my grocery money, so
>>>> > giving work wasn't something I was willing to do; I wanted to pick up
>>>> > extra hours, not throw them away.  I also have been in a professional
>>>> > music fraternity since the spring semester of my Freshman year, and a
>>>> > lot of our major events (recruitment events, initiations and pledging
>>>> > ceremonies, etc) happen on Saturdays.  With the chapter meetings
>>>> > scheduled from 1:00-3:00 PM, not to mention the location is subject to
>>>> > change from place to place so students can't plan for consistency, I
>>>> > have
>>>> had difficulty in getting there.
>>>> >
>>>> > I've emailed the chapter president a few times about how there is a
>>>> > double-standard here.  He wants new blood in the chapter, but when I
>>>> > tell him it is very difficult to add in chapter meetings when the time
>>>> > isn't very accessible to me he thumbs his nose and tells me I should
>>>> > cancel work or do what it takes to come to chapter meetings because it
>>>> > would benefit the chapter.  I try to explain to him that while I do
>>>> > understand personal sacrifices can and should be made to an extent,
>>>> > students do not have as much flexibility as working people to move
>>>> > classes around in the week, and there are only so many hours in the
>>>> > weekend.  Not to mention extracurriculars are a good thing for blind
>>>> > students to be involved in because it shows peers that we can be
>>>> > engaged and active in the same ways as they are.  It also creates
>>>> > networking opportunities and even job prospects after graduation as
>>>> > long as the extracurriculars are not merely social in nature, which
>>>> > mine are not.  I want to join the local chapter nearby, but I also
>>>> > want to experience life as a student too in the year or so I have left
>>>> > of undergrad.
>>>> >
>>>> > I don't think this makes me a lazy Federationist as I have found ways
>>>> > to be active in divisions and in the affiliate outside of chapters,
>>>> > and I would venture to guess that 1:00-3:00 PM on a Saturday probably
>>>> > isn't great for most students since it's right in the middle of the
>>>> > day.  I did not send the email I drafted, but I feel like if the
>>>> > chapter needs and wants students to join as badly as they say they do,
>>>> > they need to make the meeting time more accessible to that group of
>>>> > people.  Right now I know it is not for me, and I think that is also
>>>> > the case for other highly-involved and motivated students who the
>>>> > president would like to see join the chapter.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thoughts?  I personally don't think I'm fully in the wrong here, but I
>>>> > am open to anything at this point. I really would join the local
>>>> > chapter if it were held at times that I could consistently attend.
>>>> > Right now I'm able to make it to a scattered couple of social events
>>>> > outside of the regular meeting times, but that's about it.  I've
>>>> > prooven to be involved in the affiliate on committees and in other
>>>> > projects including BELL, but right now I feel like joining either of
>>>> > these chapters isn't a possibility for me and I'm not appreciating the
>>>> > push-back for my reasons why.  It's not that I'm making excuses or
>>>> > because I don't want to go; I think work conflicts and required
>>>> > fraternity events which I will only be able to have for a year longer
>>>> > tops are acceptable reasons to be absent, not to mention that when I'm
>>>> > home traveling an hour to the meeting and then another hour back home
>>>> > 2 hours later is a bit much to ask.  I suppose my logic is that I am
>>>> > already a Federationist and I can join a chapter when the time is
>>>> > right for me to do so, and by that I mean when I can actively
>>>> > contribute in a stable and dedicated way.  That will most likely come
>>>> > when I have a 40 hour work week like the rest of the current chapter
>>>> > if they don't take their desire for student members and what is
>>>> > accessible to them into consideration.
>>>> > --
>>>> > Kaiti Shelton
>>>> > University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>>> > President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
>>>> > The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division
>>>> > 2015-2016
>>>> >
>>>> > "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you
>>>> > back!"
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> > nabs-l:
>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jsoro620%40gmail.c
>>>> > om
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > _______________________________________________
>>>> > nabs-l mailing list
>>>> > nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> > nabs-l:
>>>> > http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%
>>>> > 40gmail.com
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>>> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present Secretary,
>>>> The
>>>> National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division 2015-2016
>>>
>>>        David Andrews and long white cane Harry.
>>> E-Mail:  dandrews at visi.com or david.andrews at nfbnet.org
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nabs-l mailing list
>>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nabs-l:
>>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dsmithnfb%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/crazy4clarinet104%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Kaiti Shelton
> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
> President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
> Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
> Division 2015-2016
>
> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/bookwormahb%40earthlink.net
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/arielle71%40gmail.com
>


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 12:47:39 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 08:47:39 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Welceme to Fall
Message-ID: <5603f114.0752810a.6fcef.ffffecf4@mx.google.com>

Welceme to Fall everyone.  I hope the weather is cooling off in 
some parts of the country.  Hope to hear from you soon.


From jfranks at nfbtx.org  Thu Sep 24 15:48:27 2015
From: jfranks at nfbtx.org (Jonathan Franks)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 10:48:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Bookshare question
Message-ID: <CAMuaAOLu9sSZR5S-3DXTBS4MbSOkwSTy1aaRQtxFj3NvT5Uy9Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hello all,
I am relatively new to utilizing Bookshare. I was wondering if there
were ways to get text files of the books available on the website, or
are they only in Audio format? I am attempting to obtain a copy of the
DSM 5 manual to help further my academic goal of becoming a Licensed
Clinical Social Worker.

Thanks in advance

Jonathan Franks
BSW Shared Psychiatric Services Intern
Lifeworks Austin
https://www.lifeworksaustin.org

Treasurer
Texas Association of Blind Students


From cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 15:57:48 2015
From: cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 11:57:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bookshare question
In-Reply-To: <CAMuaAOLu9sSZR5S-3DXTBS4MbSOkwSTy1aaRQtxFj3NvT5Uy9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMuaAOLu9sSZR5S-3DXTBS4MbSOkwSTy1aaRQtxFj3NvT5Uy9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <FB4D622A-1C16-4A08-B2D2-45EFB2BE9619@gmail.com>

Bookshare offers books in DAISY, MP3 and BRF formats. When I use Bookshare I often download the BRF copy in order to access it on a Braille display or notetaker. If you do not have access to a player which can read Braille or DAISY files, however, you may be able to access the book you want in TXT format from another source like AccessText or VitalSource Bookshelf.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 24, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Jonathan Franks via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I am relatively new to utilizing Bookshare. I was wondering if there
> were ways to get text files of the books available on the website, or
> are they only in Audio format? I am attempting to obtain a copy of the
> DSM 5 manual to help further my academic goal of becoming a Licensed
> Clinical Social Worker.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Jonathan Franks
> BSW Shared Psychiatric Services Intern
> Lifeworks Austin
> https://www.lifeworksaustin.org
> 
> Treasurer
> Texas Association of Blind Students
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%40gmail.com


From gpaikens at gmail.com  Thu Sep 24 15:59:55 2015
From: gpaikens at gmail.com (Greg Aikens)
Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2015 11:59:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Bookshare question
In-Reply-To: <CAMuaAOLu9sSZR5S-3DXTBS4MbSOkwSTy1aaRQtxFj3NvT5Uy9Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAMuaAOLu9sSZR5S-3DXTBS4MbSOkwSTy1aaRQtxFj3NvT5Uy9Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4CFBCA1E-475F-4BA9-925C-E1FAA088F4CE@gmail.com>

If you want to access the book as text for a screen reader to use, you’ll need to select the daisy option. You can open these daisy books to be read out loud in a daisy reader or you can open them in a web browser and have your screen reader do the work. I prefer the second for the kind of work you are wanting to do. After you unzip the book, go into the folder and find the file with the .xml extension. It should open automatically in your default web browser. 

Another option is to hit the “Read now” button and you can access the text through the bookstore website.

Best,
Greg



> On Sep 24, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Jonathan Franks via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hello all,
> I am relatively new to utilizing Bookshare. I was wondering if there
> were ways to get text files of the books available on the website, or
> are they only in Audio format? I am attempting to obtain a copy of the
> DSM 5 manual to help further my academic goal of becoming a Licensed
> Clinical Social Worker.
> 
> Thanks in advance
> 
> Jonathan Franks
> BSW Shared Psychiatric Services Intern
> Lifeworks Austin
> https://www.lifeworksaustin.org
> 
> Treasurer
> Texas Association of Blind Students
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/gpaikens%40gmail.com



From jlestermusic at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 00:33:13 2015
From: jlestermusic at gmail.com (josh lester)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 19:33:13 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi, from a returning subscriber!
Message-ID: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all.
I'm Joshua Lester.
I'm grateful to be back on this list.
I graduated from college in 2014, and I'm planning to start my
bachelor's next year.
I took some time off to recover from some health problems and now I'm
ready to get back to school!
I hope I can offer some advice from my time in school, and gain advice
and knowledge from others as I go back to school.
Thanks

-- 
Joshua Lester
Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
"Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)


From helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 00:55:38 2015
From: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com (Helga Schreiber)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 20:55:38 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi, from a returning subscriber!
In-Reply-To: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C20863F8-73DF-4F79-ADEB-48182D0C992D@gmail.com>

Hey! Joshua! What' sup? This is Helga! It's been a long tie that we don't talk man! Welcome back to the list! Do you still ahve skypemy friend? If so, we can talk by skype! I'm glad that you are back to the list! I hope you remember me? I look forward in hearing from you soon. Thanks and God bless!Hey! JoshuaHeyHeyd

Helga Schreiber 

Member of National Federation of the Blind and Florida Association of Blind Students.
Member of the International Networkers Team (INT).
Independent Entrepreneur of the Company 4Life Research.
Phone:  (561) 706-5950 
Email: helga.schreiber26 at gmail.com 
Skype: helga.schreiber26 
4Life Website: http://helgaschreiber.my4life.com/1/default.aspx 
INT Website: http://int4life.com/ 

"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life." John 3:16 
Sent from my iPhone 

> On Sep 25, 2015, at 8:33 PM, josh lester via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> I'm Joshua Lester.
> I'm grateful to be back on this list.
> I graduated from college in 2014, and I'm planning to start my
> bachelor's next year.
> I took some time off to recover from some health problems and now I'm
> ready to get back to school!
> I hope I can offer some advice from my time in school, and gain advice
> and knowledge from others as I go back to school.
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Joshua Lester
> Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
> "Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
> the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
> receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/helga.schreiber26%40gmail.com

From dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu  Sat Sep 26 01:32:22 2015
From: dmanners at jd16.law.harvard.edu (Derek Manners)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 21:32:22 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi, from a returning subscriber!
In-Reply-To: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <3E7CD6FC-23A7-4D34-ACA0-FD507D71FB33@jd16.law.harvard.edu>

Hey Joshua welcome back. Where are you going to be attending college?

Best regards
Derek Manners

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 25, 2015, at 8:33 PM, josh lester via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> I'm Joshua Lester.
> I'm grateful to be back on this list.
> I graduated from college in 2014, and I'm planning to start my
> bachelor's next year.
> I took some time off to recover from some health problems and now I'm
> ready to get back to school!
> I hope I can offer some advice from my time in school, and gain advice
> and knowledge from others as I go back to school.
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Joshua Lester
> Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
> "Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
> the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
> receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/dmanners%40jd16.law.harvard.edu


From cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 01:43:32 2015
From: cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 21:43:32 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi, from a returning subscriber!
In-Reply-To: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91D1FDDB-4FB1-4E21-95B9-A8239923E773@gmail.com>

Hey Josh:

Welcome back to the list! I remember you fondly from your previous contributions to this list, and look forward to getting back in touch. Best of luck to you as you continue your studies!

Blessings,

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 25, 2015, at 8:33 PM, josh lester via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
> I'm Joshua Lester.
> I'm grateful to be back on this list.
> I graduated from college in 2014, and I'm planning to start my
> bachelor's next year.
> I took some time off to recover from some health problems and now I'm
> ready to get back to school!
> I hope I can offer some advice from my time in school, and gain advice
> and knowledge from others as I go back to school.
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Joshua Lester
> Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
> "Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
> the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
> receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%40gmail.com


From jlestermusic at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 02:41:27 2015
From: jlestermusic at gmail.com (josh lester)
Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2015 21:41:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about a book!
Message-ID: <CAEpB4bjwJ9cz+d3VxShYp3aB=F0HUWa32s-wu+upbzLse2t12Q@mail.gmail.com>

Do any of you know if Interpersonal Communication Everyday Encounters,
7th edition is available in BRF?
If so, where can we get it?
I have a friend that needs it.
Thanks

-- 
Joshua Lester
Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
"Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)


From kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 12:00:08 2015
From: kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com (Kathryn Webster)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 08:00:08 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi, from a returning subscriber!
In-Reply-To: <91D1FDDB-4FB1-4E21-95B9-A8239923E773@gmail.com>
References: <CAEpB4bi7Qpn+Uxoi=Ze4LWm8ia4QhCHYKTxM7K96HGaWdMf4Fg@mail.gmail.com>
	<91D1FDDB-4FB1-4E21-95B9-A8239923E773@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <823C289B-1A30-4771-86B8-E86E7991F677@gmail.com>

Good morning Joshua,
  Welcome back to the list! I'm glad you are back with us :)
Talk soon,
Kathryn 

Kathryn C. Webster
(203) 273-8463
Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 25, 2015, at 9:43 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Hey Josh:
> 
> Welcome back to the list! I remember you fondly from your previous contributions to this list, and look forward to getting back in touch. Best of luck to you as you continue your studies!
> 
> Blessings,
> 
> Chris Nusbaum
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Sep 25, 2015, at 8:33 PM, josh lester via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all.
>> I'm Joshua Lester.
>> I'm grateful to be back on this list.
>> I graduated from college in 2014, and I'm planning to start my
>> bachelor's next year.
>> I took some time off to recover from some health problems and now I'm
>> ready to get back to school!
>> I hope I can offer some advice from my time in school, and gain advice
>> and knowledge from others as I go back to school.
>> Thanks
>> 
>> -- 
>> Joshua Lester
>> Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
>> "Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
>> the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
>> receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%40gmail.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kathrynwebster.nfb%40gmail.com

From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 20:28:09 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 16:28:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Hi, from a returning subscriber!
Message-ID: <56070007.5646810a.2d3c4.ffffaa81@mx.google.com>

Hi Joshua welcome back to the list.  I hope you enjoy your time 
here.


From sarah.meyer55 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 22:09:05 2015
From: sarah.meyer55 at gmail.com (Sarah Meyer)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 18:09:05 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] BookShare Question
Message-ID: <CALEYb2vH7mWLeTMjyr-_c1r+77pPaE=1oHKoDeSvZf=YYu-u_Q@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Chris, Can you explain what AccessText and VitalSource bookshelf are?

Thanks,

Sarah

-- 
Sarah K. Meyer
Graduate Student, Clinical Mental Health Counseling/Social Psychology
Ball State University
Board Member, Human Services Division of the National Federation of the Blind
sarah.meyer55 at gmail.com
(317)402-6632


From sarah.meyer55 at gmail.com  Sat Sep 26 22:48:09 2015
From: sarah.meyer55 at gmail.com (Sarah Meyer)
Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2015 18:48:09 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Trevor's question about responding to strings of
 emails or conversations rather than entire digests
Message-ID: <CALEYb2s18R2z3ceGNJOKt3OFecvA7NBOxpb=a8wytmFfmOsYNA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Trevor,
I noticed that you asked at the end of a message recently if there was
a way to respond to a string of messages and not just the entire
digest mode.  I am so happy you asked, because (while I am guilty of
accidentally doing this at times myself), it just creates so much more
clutter and frustration whith trying to read through all of the
messages when every single one has gobs and gobs of repetitions of
previous threads of conversations. I have just decided that I can't
even read my listserv emails on my iPhone or in my actual Outlook
because I can't just search for the start of a new message the way I
can in the Internet browser of my Gmail account.

Anyway, what I do when I want to respond is this.  I make note of what
the subject line is and then
open up a new message and address it to nabs-l at nfbnet.org.  You could
copy and paste the most recent message to which you are responding if
you wish as a point of reference below, but I don't think it would be
necessary.  Another thing I have done is to just hit reply from within
the digest message, edit the subject line to reflect the fact that I
am responding to a specific topic and not just the digest/volume
number and then delete the text in the email that is automatically
placed in the body text from the reply option so I can just type in my
response and respect everyone's time and sanity by avoiding clutter.

I hope this helps!

Kind regards,

Sarah

-- 
Sarah K. Meyer
Graduate Student, Clinical Mental Health Counseling/Social Psychology
Ball State University
Board Member, Human Services Division of the National Federation of the Blind
sarah.meyer55 at gmail.com
(317)402-6632


From kskristen at gmail.com  Sun Sep 27 14:25:20 2015
From: kskristen at gmail.com (Kristen Steele)
Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2015 09:25:20 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] BookShare Question
In-Reply-To: <CALEYb2vH7mWLeTMjyr-_c1r+77pPaE=1oHKoDeSvZf=YYu-u_Q@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CALEYb2vH7mWLeTMjyr-_c1r+77pPaE=1oHKoDeSvZf=YYu-u_Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAD6Dm-2x9xG2F9c7tdBetWdfZx+U4Rnm=MBHye95BScCDBqf4Q@mail.gmail.com>

Yes, I would be interested in this info, too. Are these two sources
only for institutions, or can anyone use them? I know the university I
attend uses AccessText but didn't think it was open for students.

Thanks,
--
Kristen

On 9/26/15, Sarah Meyer via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Chris, Can you explain what AccessText and VitalSource bookshelf are?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sarah
>
> --
> Sarah K. Meyer
> Graduate Student, Clinical Mental Health Counseling/Social Psychology
> Ball State University
> Board Member, Human Services Division of the National Federation of the
> Blind
> sarah.meyer55 at gmail.com
> (317)402-6632
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/kskristen%40gmail.com
>


From hbwilliams16 at gmail.com  Mon Sep 28 04:01:16 2015
From: hbwilliams16 at gmail.com (Hindley Williams)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 00:01:16 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] NABS Notes September 2015
Message-ID: <CAK_VX0zsHg20VUZFx_XjW1+zTEj7X0KNqX7w6hJvJwXP8bOfRQ@mail.gmail.com>

Hello Fellow Students,
Below and attached, you will find the NABS Notes for September. This
month, take a look at the many state updates we have gathered from a
variety of student divisions, and a few announcements from NABS.
If you have any suggestions for the publication of the NABS Notes,
please feel free to send any thoughts my way at
hbwilliams16 at gmail.com.
Without further delay, here is this month's edition. Enjoy!

NABS Notes September 2015
In this edition of the NABS monthly bulletin:
1.	Kindle Products: Colleges and Universities
2.	Tune in: NABS President to be interviewed on KJSC Radio
3.	State Updates
4.	NABS Board Meeting Minutes

Kindel Products in Colleges and Universities:
Colleges and universities are implementing Kindle products at an
alarming rate and the NFB needs your help to expand our advocacy
efforts. Primarily, we need you to find out whether your school is
implementing or considering implementing an Amazon storefront,
Whispercast, or Kindle ebooks. If you learn that your school uses or
is planning to use Whispercast or Kindle content, we need you to
educate your school and administrators about the importance of ebook
accessibility. Be prepared to explain why accessibility is critical,
why it is important to ensure during the procurement phase that
technology is accessible, and that accessible technology is required
under the law. Provide your school with copies of the NFB's August 26,
2015, letter to the New York City Department of
Education<https://nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/pdf/kindle-books/nfb_letter_to_ramirez_8.26.15.pdf>,
ebook accessibility comparison
chart<https://nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/pdf/kindle-books/inaccessibility_of_kindle_books_chart_8.27.15.pdf>,
the U.S. Departments of Education and Justice's Joint Dear Colleague
letter<http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/letters/colleague-20100629.html>,
and the U.S. Department of Education's
FAQ<http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/docs/dcl-ebook-faq-201105.html>
and May 6, 2013, letter from Seth
Galanter<https://nfb.org/images/nfb/documents/pdf/kindle-books/letter_from_seth_galanter_5.6.13.pdf>.
And, if you learn that your school uses or is planning to use
Whispercast or Kindle content, contact Valerie Yingling, paralegal at
the NFB, at vyingling at nfb.org<mailto:vyingling at nfb.org> or (410)
659-9314, extension 2440

Tune in: NABS President to be Interviewed on KJSC Radio:
Don’t miss it! Tune in on Tuesday, September 29 at 8 PM eastern to
hear an interview with Sean Whalen. To listen, go to kjscradio.com,
click on “listen,” and then select your media player.


State Updates:
The below announcements are printed as they were received from their senders.

Arizona:
FromSeptember 11 through the 13 we had our state convention which was
a lot of fun and a great success. Our state president Mr. Bob Kresmer
was reelected for the 11th term, and we had president Ricabono present
to share in the fun. Our former student division president Garret
Mooney was the recipient of the Arizona state scholarship this year
and was excited to receive this award when several of his mentors were
present. We are also excited to share with you that our student board
has a newly elected president Christian Able, and also new officers
and board members.
President: Christian Able
First Vice: Thomas Camargo
Second Vice: Isaac Zwinger
Secretary: Bryan Duarte
Treasurer: Jonathan Candler
First Board: McDaniel Murrieta
Second Board: Brittany Bomboy
Thank you to everyone who attended our state convention and we all
look forward to another year of service together!
California:
               CABS is moving full speed ahead toward our State
Convention, which will be held Oct. 30 through Nov. 1 in Newark, CA.
We look forward with eager anticipation to our business meeting, which
promises to be action packed. The theme this year will be Feeling the
Power! We will have speeches from, among others, National rep Pam
Allen and NABS rep Garret Mooney. Prior to the meeting we will have a
pizza social, where students can eat lots of amazing pie and meet lots
of even more amazing folks. And of course, convention isn’t convention
without a fund raiser. Taking inspiration from our friends in
Massachusetts, we are selling high quality dark chocolate bars from
Trader Joe’s and Whole Foods. So come join us, you California
dreamers, and let’s feel the power!




Connecticut:
The Connecticut Association of Blind Students is preparing for our
44th annual State Convention, which will take place in New London, CT,
from November 6-8. We will be selling our usual snackpacks; and
welcoming several new students to the Federation. In addition to the
Career Fair on Friday afternoon hosted by the affiliate, the students
will have our meeting over lunch on Saturday, followed by an
interactive and engaging Legislative Leadership Workshop hosted by the
National Association of Blind Students (NABS) and our very own CT
Affiliate. We are eager to award our state scholarships. Finally,
Connecticut students are proud to enjoy some time with many NABS Board
members during this week of learning, interaction, and teaching!

Georgia:
The Georgia Association of Blind Students invites you to join us at
our state convention from October 9-11 in Atlanta! Be a part of the
fun activities that we have in store, including a card games
fundraiser and a student meeting agenda packed full of informative
presentations. The date of our convention is swiftly approaching, so
contact us quickly if you would like to attend! Please email Justin
Heard, Georgia Student Division President, at
braillemasterjustin at gmail.com, or call him at (678) 516-2464.

Massachusetts:
Massachusetts is continuing our work on building our division. We have
recently scheduled a fall student social at Harvard Law School on
October 17 from 1-3 P.M.

We are also contacting every college and university DSS office to let
them know about our upcoming student event as well as information on
how to use the NABS and MASSABS student list as a crowd sourcing
resource.

Nevada:
        Coming up in five weeks, the Nevada Affiliate will be
gathering to continue our efforts in building the federation. We will
be holding our convention at the famous mane street station hotel in
Las Vegas NV. On the weekend of October 30–November 1. Our agenda has
some heavy hitting polititions, judges, and other influential
figures–do not miss out!

North Carolina:
The North Carolina Association of Blind Students is proud to report
that our annual State Convention was a huge success. With
presentations from both our National Rep Anil Lewis and our NABS Rep
Sean Whalen, our students were enlightened by words of inspiration,
positivity, and knowledge. Our three fundraisers turned out to be a
great success, raising over $500 through selling popcorn and soda,
hosting a lollipop tree raffle, and having some NC leaders get bailed
out for our jail-break fundraiser.
Our students got to welcome brand new members, while getting to know
our past leaders through a long drive to Wilmington, a student lunch,
and various activities during Convention.
A big congratulations to our two state scholarship winners: our
immediate past president Kathryn Webster and a new Federationist Katie
Pyant!
Our entire membership is eager for the upcoming year and would like to
welcome our newly elected officers to NCABS. Thank you to our past
leaders for such a successful year!
 President: Bobbi Pompey
1st Vice President: Trey Roach
2nd Vice President: Anderson Smallwood
Secretary: Kenia Flores
Treasurer: Alan Chase

Pennsylvania:
The Pennsylvania Association of Blind Students is gearing up for what
is sure to be a fantastic convention! Don’t miss out on the chance to
meet and network with other blind students from all over the state.
The convention is taking place from November 13-15 in Wilkes-Barre,
the exact town and weekend in which the National Federation of the
Blind was founded 75 years ago. If interested in attending or you have
questions, contact Hindley Williams at hbwilliams16 at gmail.com or (443)
823-0867.

Virginia:
The Virginia Association of Blind Students is preparing for what will
be an amazing convention, which will be held halloween weekend at
Tyson's Corner in Falls Church, VA. We are in the midst of planning
the youth track, which will involve a halloween themed meet and greet
on Friday evening where students will meet other students and mentors
and participate in icebreakers. In addition students will have a
travel excursion either at the Metro or the mall and will have a
seminar lead by one of our great leaders in the Federation. Saturday
afternoon, the student division will conduct our annual business
meeting, which will include elections. It will be an exciting time as
new leaders emerge. We are also planning to have two different
fundraisers during convention, one of which is a jailbreak fundraiser
borrowed from the North Carolina Association of Blind Students.


NABS Board Meeting Minutes:
September 27, 2015

Meeting called to order at 9:03 p.m.
 Members Present:
 Sean Whalen (President)
Candice Chapman (1st Vice President)
Bre Brown (2nd Vice President)
Kathryn Webster (Secretary/Treasurer)
Hindley Williams (Board Member 1)
Chris Nusbaum (Board member 3)

Treasurer’s Report:
Balance as of September 27, 2015: $4,967.42
Reimbursements to Sean and Garrett (NC/WA and CA) were issued.
Awaiting $45 from Karen from January’s auction.

Committee Reports
 Communications: Bre, Chris, Hindley
Working on a blog; will be up shortly. Committee call happened. We
have moderators for the NABS list.
Social media: We are growing a great deal on Twitter. If you see any
info you want posted or articles hsared, send to Chris Nusbaum at
dotkid.nusbaum at gmail.com
NABS Notes: Will be going out tomorrow. Please contact your state
presidents each month to urge them for NABS Notes updates!

Fundraising: Kathryn
Please distribute funding packet to student organizations, employers,
restaurants, and local businesses. Please share Gofundme page on all
social media outlets!
www.gofundme.com/blindstudents

Legislative: Sean, Kathryn
Anil Lewis, Patti Chang, Kathryn Webster, and Sean Whalen are handling
Washington Seminar sponsorships. Application for students will be out
before October 15. Applications will be due around November 15.
Notifications will be sent out around Thanksgiving.
Legislative Committee should make a packet to help state student
divisions during conventions and seminars. Template letters, sample
letters, how to write one, etc.
NABS is partnering with NFB of CT to host a Legislative Leadership
Seminar on November 7 from 1-5 p.m. in New London, CT. First 20
registrants will be paid for by the NFB of CT. To register:
http://goo.gl/forms/HLd0DC6RWF

Membership: Candice
Planning a membership call for October and December.
 Website: Kathryn
Please email Kathryn with any student division leadership updates
every time a Convention happens. That will have name, email, and phone
number for student presidents.
State Updates
New York NABS Rep: they want Bre; motion made to send Bre up to $165;
motion carries.
Illinois NABS Rep: Candice is going free of charge to NABS
Virginia NABS Rep: Kathryn is going free of charge to NABS; Chris will
go Saturday.
Georgia NABS Rep: We are sending Hindley for $90
Louisiana NABS Rep: Bre is going free of charge to NABS
Michigan wants a NABS update: Candice will handle it on November 7,
from 12-2 pm central
 Meeting adjourned at 9:52 p.m.



-- 
Hindley Williams
hbwilliams16 at gmail.com
(443) 823-0867
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From ALewis at nfb.org  Mon Sep 28 11:58:10 2015
From: ALewis at nfb.org (Lewis, Anil)
Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2015 11:58:10 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] An Accessibility Bug in the Recent Uber update
Message-ID: <DM2PR0701MB1018A9F8ABD3A54D7D13CC50C14F0@DM2PR0701MB1018.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

I apologize, I received this note from our Uber contact on Friday:

"Our engineering team has identified a bug that will impact accessibility for blind or vision-impaired riders in iOS rider app 2.97.6, to be released on Monday.

Unfortunately, a bug was introduced in the next version of the iOS rider app - 2.97.6 - likely to be released on Monday of next week. The bug essentially makes it more difficult, but not impossible, for voice-over enabled accessibility users to request a ride. When swiping through the accessibility elements on the app's main screen, the user will encounter multiple extra accessibility items after cycling through the product selection slider and before reaching the "Set Pickup Location" button needed to request a ride.

This bug is recoverable by continuing to swipe past the bug indicating there are no more accessible fields.  The audio cues indicate that the user has not yet reached the end of the accessibility elements, and if they continue to swipe, they will eventually reach the anticipated accessibility elements.  It will be fixed in the following version (2.98), but it will likely be a full week after 2.97.6 before that version is out."


We are working to ensure access to these innovative transportation options. Please let me know if you would like to participate in our Ride Sharing focus groups.

Sincerely,

Anil

Mr. Anil Lewis, M.P.A.
Executive Director

National Federation of the Blind Jernigan Institute
200 East Wells Street at Jernigan Place
Baltimore, Maryland   21230

(410) 659-9314 ext. 2374 (Voice)
(410) 659-5129 (FAX)
Email: alewis at nfb.org<mailto:alewis at nfb.org>
Web: www.nfb.org<http://www.nfb.org/>
Twitter: @AnilLife

The National Federation of the Blind knows that blindness is not the characteristic that defines you or your future. Every day we raise the expectations of blind people, because low expectations create obstacles between blind people and our dreams. You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back.

To make a donation to the National Federation of the Blind Imagination Fund campaign, please visit www.nfb.org/ImaginingOurFuture<http://www.nfb.org/ImaginingOurFuture>.



From cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com  Tue Sep 29 22:33:53 2015
From: cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 18:33:53 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight: Meet some NABS Leaders in a Live,
	Interactive Interview on KJSC Radio
Message-ID: <005901d0fb06$ec16d800$c4448800$@gmail.com>

Fellow Students:

 

We are excited to partner with KJSC Radio, which streamed our business
meeting back in July, to conduct a live, interactive interview with two
dynamic NABS leaders tonight on the Blind Side, a show dedicated to talking
about all things blindness with a good dose of positive NFB philosophy.
Unfortunately, NABS President Sean Whalen is unable to be interviewed as
scheduled due to a last-minute family obligation. However, we are pleased to
have 2nd Vice President Bre Brown and Secretary/Treasurer Kathryn Webster
live with us to talk about the great work in which NABS is currently engaged
and how you can get involved. Here is all the pertinent information:

 

What: Chris Nusbaum sits down for a live interview with Kathryn Webster and
Bre Brown about NABS and its current work

When: tonight from 8:00-9:00 PM Eastern time

Where: KJSC Radio

How to Listen: Click on the following link:
http://kjscradio.com/classic/radio.php. From this page you can either play
the stream directly from your browser or from within your default media
player, such as Windows Media Player, iTunes or media players for iOS or
Android devices. Our station can also be found in the TuneIn Radio and
OOTunes apps by searching for KJSC Radio and selecting "the Life of KJSC
Radio" from the list of results.

How to Participate: Throughout the program there will be a phone number
given. Please call this number to ask your questions on-air. Alternatively,
you can tweet your questions to @nabslink. As many of these as possible will
be read on-air.

 

The NABS and KJSC Radio teams hope that you will take advantage of this
exciting opportunity to meet our leaders in an informal, interactive
setting. We look forward to speaking with many of you tonight!

 

Chris Nusbaum, Host

KJSC Radio

Board Member, National Association of Blind Students


From mikgephart at icloud.com  Wed Sep 30 00:05:23 2015
From: mikgephart at icloud.com (Mikayla Gephart)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 20:05:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight: Meet some NABS Leaders in a Live,
 Interactive Interview on KJSC Radio
In-Reply-To: <005901d0fb06$ec16d800$c4448800$@gmail.com>
References: <005901d0fb06$ec16d800$c4448800$@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <C940577C-833F-4063-8C40-C44075BBCD30@icloud.com>

I am listening. It is all music

Sent from my iPad

> On Sep 29, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> Fellow Students:
> 
> 
> 
> We are excited to partner with KJSC Radio, which streamed our business
> meeting back in July, to conduct a live, interactive interview with two
> dynamic NABS leaders tonight on the Blind Side, a show dedicated to talking
> about all things blindness with a good dose of positive NFB philosophy.
> Unfortunately, NABS President Sean Whalen is unable to be interviewed as
> scheduled due to a last-minute family obligation. However, we are pleased to
> have 2nd Vice President Bre Brown and Secretary/Treasurer Kathryn Webster
> live with us to talk about the great work in which NABS is currently engaged
> and how you can get involved. Here is all the pertinent information:
> 
> 
> 
> What: Chris Nusbaum sits down for a live interview with Kathryn Webster and
> Bre Brown about NABS and its current work
> 
> When: tonight from 8:00-9:00 PM Eastern time
> 
> Where: KJSC Radio
> 
> How to Listen: Click on the following link:
> http://kjscradio.com/classic/radio.php. From this page you can either play
> the stream directly from your browser or from within your default media
> player, such as Windows Media Player, iTunes or media players for iOS or
> Android devices. Our station can also be found in the TuneIn Radio and
> OOTunes apps by searching for KJSC Radio and selecting "the Life of KJSC
> Radio" from the list of results.
> 
> How to Participate: Throughout the program there will be a phone number
> given. Please call this number to ask your questions on-air. Alternatively,
> you can tweet your questions to @nabslink. As many of these as possible will
> be read on-air.
> 
> 
> 
> The NABS and KJSC Radio teams hope that you will take advantage of this
> exciting opportunity to meet our leaders in an informal, interactive
> setting. We look forward to speaking with many of you tonight!
> 
> 
> 
> Chris Nusbaum, Host
> 
> KJSC Radio
> 
> Board Member, National Association of Blind Students
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com


From cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 01:15:48 2015
From: cnusbaumnfb at gmail.com (Chris Nusbaum)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:15:48 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Tonight: Meet some NABS Leaders in a Live,
	Interactive Interview on KJSC Radio
In-Reply-To: <C940577C-833F-4063-8C40-C44075BBCD30@icloud.com>
References: <005901d0fb06$ec16d800$c4448800$@gmail.com>
	<C940577C-833F-4063-8C40-C44075BBCD30@icloud.com>
Message-ID: <0168D081-A13C-472F-835C-4BDE7CE11677@gmail.com>

We apologize for the delay. There were some technical difficulties with our phone line which prevented us from getting on in time. Seems whenever we try to do something with NABS some technical difficulty occurs. :-) Hopefully all he tried to listen and we're only getting music stuck around to hear the show itself, as I think the interview went very well. For those who weren't able to listen live, there will be a podcast up shortly and I will send out the link.

Chris Nusbaum

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 29, 2015, at 8:05 PM, Mikayla Gephart via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> 
> I am listening. It is all music
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
>> On Sep 29, 2015, at 6:33 PM, Chris Nusbaum via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Fellow Students:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> We are excited to partner with KJSC Radio, which streamed our business
>> meeting back in July, to conduct a live, interactive interview with two
>> dynamic NABS leaders tonight on the Blind Side, a show dedicated to talking
>> about all things blindness with a good dose of positive NFB philosophy.
>> Unfortunately, NABS President Sean Whalen is unable to be interviewed as
>> scheduled due to a last-minute family obligation. However, we are pleased to
>> have 2nd Vice President Bre Brown and Secretary/Treasurer Kathryn Webster
>> live with us to talk about the great work in which NABS is currently engaged
>> and how you can get involved. Here is all the pertinent information:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> What: Chris Nusbaum sits down for a live interview with Kathryn Webster and
>> Bre Brown about NABS and its current work
>> 
>> When: tonight from 8:00-9:00 PM Eastern time
>> 
>> Where: KJSC Radio
>> 
>> How to Listen: Click on the following link:
>> http://kjscradio.com/classic/radio.php. From this page you can either play
>> the stream directly from your browser or from within your default media
>> player, such as Windows Media Player, iTunes or media players for iOS or
>> Android devices. Our station can also be found in the TuneIn Radio and
>> OOTunes apps by searching for KJSC Radio and selecting "the Life of KJSC
>> Radio" from the list of results.
>> 
>> How to Participate: Throughout the program there will be a phone number
>> given. Please call this number to ask your questions on-air. Alternatively,
>> you can tweet your questions to @nabslink. As many of these as possible will
>> be read on-air.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> The NABS and KJSC Radio teams hope that you will take advantage of this
>> exciting opportunity to meet our leaders in an informal, interactive
>> setting. We look forward to speaking with many of you tonight!
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Chris Nusbaum, Host
>> 
>> KJSC Radio
>> 
>> Board Member, National Association of Blind Students
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/mikgephart%40icloud.com
> 
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/cnusbaumnfb%40gmail.com


From tfurban22 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 01:22:25 2015
From: tfurban22 at gmail.com (tfurban22 at gmail.com)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 21:22:25 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A new member
Message-ID: <002601d0fb1e$77481df0$65d859d0$@com>

Hello all,

My name is Tessa Urban. I have joined this list specifically to inquire
about the Houston's Lighthouse of the blind distance education program. I am
considering to try and in role into the medical transcriptionist class. I
have already posted this to the Texas nfb student's list to see if anyone
else in the state is part of the course. 

Is anyone in this program? If so, what are or have been your experiences?
Are you doing the program online or at the lighthouse? If you have completed
the program, are you working? Was the staff helpful? How was the enrolling
process for you? What if you had an unplanned emergency and couldn't
complete something; what happened with the teacher and your class? What if
you've never done online schooling before? How did the testing and exams go?
Did you have to follow their time schedule exactly? I do realize these are a
lot of questions however I do try to be thorough.

A bit about me: I live in the state of Florida. I'm 31, have a guide dog and
have always had a love for anything medical related. I'm a licensed massage
therapist in the state of Florida. I use Jaws as a screen reading software.
I tried doing Hadley school online taking a Bible class, however I couldn't
finish it. The class was more difficult than I realized, everything was done
from the book and getting questions answered was hard to do. I also felt
that the expectations of the instructor were not clear enough when it came
to exams.

If anyone has any questions or suggestions, please let me know. I thank you
for your time.

God bless, Tessa 


From jordystringer83 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 02:27:21 2015
From: jordystringer83 at gmail.com (Jordy Stringer)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:27:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] The DJD Invasion is back with a special presentation by
	Jordy Stringer
Message-ID: <004801d0fb27$89aa2570$9cfe7050$@gmail.com>

Greetings fellow federationists,

We hope this message finds you all doing well!

On Wednesday September 30 The Djd Invasion is back from 7:00 PM until 10:00
pm.

The show will feature three hours of pop, rock, country, a cappella and
more, with a special presentation by Jordy D. Stringer former president of
the National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts Division Beginning at
8:30 PM EST.

 

If you would like to interact with him during this time please add:
aaonacaville

to Skype or call

516 665 1652

 

Visit:

http://-www.mytvland.net/-djdreturns

To listen, ask questions, or anything else.

I  guarantee that you won't want to miss this.

We look forward to talking with all of you then.

Jordy D. Stringer, Treasurer, Blind Vision United

Phone: 317-629-4639

E-mail: jordystringer83 at gmail.com

"A man must be big enough to admit his mistakes, smart enough to profit from
them, and strong enough to correct them." John C. Maxwell


From jlestermusic at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 03:43:25 2015
From: jlestermusic at gmail.com (josh lester)
Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2015 22:43:25 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] A new member
In-Reply-To: <002601d0fb1e$77481df0$65d859d0$@com>
References: <002601d0fb1e$77481df0$65d859d0$@com>
Message-ID: <CAEpB4bjVR9WOC9dMinB1nm+=-CisqMkCahAGP2zCKQ0bTwgqrA@mail.gmail.com>

Welcome to the list!
I hope you enjoy your time here.

On 9/29/15, Tessa via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> My name is Tessa Urban. I have joined this list specifically to inquire
> about the Houston's Lighthouse of the blind distance education program. I
> am
> considering to try and in role into the medical transcriptionist class. I
> have already posted this to the Texas nfb student's list to see if anyone
> else in the state is part of the course.
>
> Is anyone in this program? If so, what are or have been your experiences?
> Are you doing the program online or at the lighthouse? If you have
> completed
> the program, are you working? Was the staff helpful? How was the enrolling
> process for you? What if you had an unplanned emergency and couldn't
> complete something; what happened with the teacher and your class? What if
> you've never done online schooling before? How did the testing and exams
> go?
> Did you have to follow their time schedule exactly? I do realize these are
> a
> lot of questions however I do try to be thorough.
>
> A bit about me: I live in the state of Florida. I'm 31, have a guide dog
> and
> have always had a love for anything medical related. I'm a licensed massage
> therapist in the state of Florida. I use Jaws as a screen reading software.
> I tried doing Hadley school online taking a Bible class, however I couldn't
> finish it. The class was more difficult than I realized, everything was
> done
> from the book and getting questions answered was hard to do. I also felt
> that the expectations of the instructor were not clear enough when it came
> to exams.
>
> If anyone has any questions or suggestions, please let me know. I thank you
> for your time.
>
> God bless, Tessa
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlestermusic%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Joshua Lester
Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
"Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)


From sharlyn at tbase.com  Wed Sep 30 12:47:21 2015
From: sharlyn at tbase.com (Sharlyn)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 12:47:21 +0000
Subject: [nabs-l] Accessible Communications: Calibrating the User Experience
Message-ID: <e54e5f0522254ba6b99b8ef3f46c6af6@MBX07A-IAD3.mex06.mlsrvr.com>

The best way to improve the state of accessibility for consumers who are blind, deaf-blind or partially sighted at North American companies is to gain insight and then get the word out to the people who can either make improvements themselves (the companies) or be catalysts for change (the consumers).

My name is Sharlyn Ayotte, and I am the Founder of and Consumer Engagement Officer for T-Base Communications, a full-service accessible communications company that specializes in producing accessible statements and bills on behalf of North America's largest corporations and education providers. The large volume of accessibility-related questions we receive from our customers tells us businesses are interested in learning about and improving the user experience.

Because there are few, if any, up-to-date stats from consumers who are blind, deaf-blind or partially sighted and because your feedback is the most valuable, we've put together a few questionnaires, each taking less than 5 minutes to complete, asking about experiences obtaining accessible statements and bills from call centers, in-branch/in-store and online.

In the end, we'll have a data-packed final report to share with our customers and with end-user consumers across North America, in an effort to help calibrate the user experience.


If you or someone you know is blind, deaf-blind or partially sighted, we need your help. We need to reach as many people as possible; with sufficient participation we'll have statistically sound results. We anticipate these results will not only increase awareness of accessibility in North America, but also influence future policies.

Begin the questionnaire<http://tbase.com/accessible-communications-calibrating-user-experience> and see below for two other ways you can support us.

1.      Share our initiative on social media with your followers. You can do so by simply going to our social media properties and sharing our tweets and status updates on the following properties:

Facebook<https://www.facebook.com/TBaseCommunity/posts/1598768563679059>
Twitter<https://twitter.com/TBaseComm/status/646346611132489728>

2.      Invite friends and colleagues in the blind, deaf-blind and partially sighted community to participate. Simply copy and paste the text below in an email, and include the link to the questionnaire.

If you are a member of the blind, deaf-blind or partially sighted community, T-Base Communications would like to learn more about your experience receiving accessible information formats. Completing the questionnaire takes approximately 5 minutes. Access the questionnaire<http://tbase.com/accessible-communications-calibrating-user-experience>  or call 1-800-563-0668 Ext. 1229 to receive the questionnaire in an alternate format of your choice.

Thank you in advance. Please don't hesitate to contact me at sharlyn at tbase.com<mailto:sharlyn at tbase.com> if you have any questions or would like to chat further.

Have a great day!


Sharlyn Ayotte
Consumer Engagement Officer
T-Base Communications
Phone: 613-236-0866 | Toll free: 1-800-563-0668
www.tbase.com<http://www.tbase.com/> | Ogdensburg, NY | Ottawa, ON
Have questions? We have answers. Just ask us! #asktbase<http://www.tbase.com/webform/ask-tbase>
ALL TOUCH POINTS. ALL ACCESS METHODS. ALL FORMATS.TM

Continue to receive the latest updates on accessibility legislation. Opt-in to stay informed<http://r20.rs6.net/tn.jsp?e=001v3RZDuh4URq0u_z5RIpBCKxChXarHgREtzXRx2SWh33FrZzKGs9m_e6RriRkqwZQLxGSxVRmzL0LF4UxG1XPfzDehrR-2aB4lDxm6IT0c_4bX36BlfZOmG7d9r7UlV3Jiyw76K0JffY=>

This email may contain information that is privileged and confidential. If you have received this communication in error, please delete this email message immediately.




From kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 13:29:21 2015
From: kathrynwebster.nfb at gmail.com (Kathryn Webster)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 09:29:21 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Staffing for EYE Retreat 2016!
Message-ID: <007701d0fb84$04510da0$0cf328e0$@gmail.com>

 

 

From: Alan A. Chase [mailto:aachase1 at gmail.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 10:32 PM
To: undisclosed-recipients:
Subject: EYE Retreat 2016!

 

Hi all,

 

Be the first in line to apply for a staff position at the 2016 EYE Retreat.  The 2016 EYE Retreat will be Friday, July 22 to Saturday, July 30.  As always, we listen to your feedback and we are asking everyone come a day early so that certified orientation and mobility specialists can help you in learning some of the sites we will use.  

 

There is no cost for you to attend and this equals about a $225.00 value.  Who can spend a week somewhere for that bargain of a price?  As usual, we will provide all food, housing, and transportation during the week.  We are sorry that other compensation isn't available.  Interviews will occur in the month of December.  

 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1M9P3dKm-F0xQ4RT9jlKIwCSeQbcfIWBjOfeeHtGe4Us/viewform

 

Below you will find descriptions of the approved positions for 2016.  We are anticipating increased enrollments for 2016 and are planning for 60 participants this year.

   


1.  College Coordinator (1 position) is responsible for group leaders within their track, class observations, class lesson planning, and participant supervision.  This person is on duty from 7am to 6pm and shares in an even rotation for supervision.

2.  Career Coordinator (1 position) is responsible for group leaders within their track, securing work site job experiences, class lesson planning, and participant supervision.  This person is on duty from 7am to 6pm and shares in an even rotation for supervision.

3.  Registration, Recreation and Transportation Coordinator (1 position) is responsible for arranging transportation to and from sites, arranging transportation for recreational activities, collecting and reviewing registration documents, completing check in and check out with participants, and arranging and supervising recreation activities.  This person is on duty during all registration times, during all check outs, and each evening during the week.

4.  Dorm Coordinators (3 positions) are responsible for overnight supervision of participants, ensuring cleanness of dorms, assisting with serving of breakfast, serving as point of contact during overnight hours, and ensuring participants adhere to the schedule. 

5.  Senior Group Leaders (2 positions) are responsible for assisting track coordinators with supporting group leaders, serving as track leader in teh absence of the track coordinator, teaching of assigned classes, supervising participants, serving as a mentor, and assisting with meal duties.  These individuals are on duty from 7am to 6pm.  Each group would have about 4 participants.

6.  Group Leaders (8 positions) are responsible for teaching of assigned classes, supervising participants, serving as a mentor, and assisting with meal duties.  These individuals are on duty from 7am to 6pm.  Each group would have about 4 participants.

 

-- 

Alan A. Chase, M.Ed.
Exceptional Children Program Facilitator, Durham Public Schools
President & Director, Envisioning Youth Empowerment Retreat


From raniaismail04 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 14:48:23 2015
From: raniaismail04 at gmail.com (Rania Ismail LMT)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 10:48:23 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A new member
In-Reply-To: <CAEpB4bjVR9WOC9dMinB1nm+=-CisqMkCahAGP2zCKQ0bTwgqrA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <002601d0fb1e$77481df0$65d859d0$@com>
	<CAEpB4bjVR9WOC9dMinB1nm+=-CisqMkCahAGP2zCKQ0bTwgqrA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CABOfWTe+FTKzn9Xn0qDJekt+LPjm33YPy+H+2fQwX+wTS3Zwvg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi Tessa! I hope you enjoy your time on the list and not only get the
answer to your question but that you learn a lot in the process!Rania,

On 9/29/15, josh lester via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Welcome to the list!
> I hope you enjoy your time here.
>
> On 9/29/15, Tessa via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello all,
>>
>> My name is Tessa Urban. I have joined this list specifically to inquire
>> about the Houston's Lighthouse of the blind distance education program. I
>> am
>> considering to try and in role into the medical transcriptionist class. I
>> have already posted this to the Texas nfb student's list to see if anyone
>> else in the state is part of the course.
>>
>> Is anyone in this program? If so, what are or have been your experiences?
>> Are you doing the program online or at the lighthouse? If you have
>> completed
>> the program, are you working? Was the staff helpful? How was the
>> enrolling
>> process for you? What if you had an unplanned emergency and couldn't
>> complete something; what happened with the teacher and your class? What
>> if
>> you've never done online schooling before? How did the testing and exams
>> go?
>> Did you have to follow their time schedule exactly? I do realize these
>> are
>> a
>> lot of questions however I do try to be thorough.
>>
>> A bit about me: I live in the state of Florida. I'm 31, have a guide dog
>> and
>> have always had a love for anything medical related. I'm a licensed
>> massage
>> therapist in the state of Florida. I use Jaws as a screen reading
>> software.
>> I tried doing Hadley school online taking a Bible class, however I
>> couldn't
>> finish it. The class was more difficult than I realized, everything was
>> done
>> from the book and getting questions answered was hard to do. I also felt
>> that the expectations of the instructor were not clear enough when it
>> came
>> to exams.
>>
>> If anyone has any questions or suggestions, please let me know. I thank
>> you
>> for your time.
>>
>> God bless, Tessa
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nabs-l mailing list
>> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nabs-l:
>> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/jlestermusic%40gmail.com
>>
>
>
> --
> Joshua Lester
> Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
> "Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
> the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
> receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)
>
> _______________________________________________
> nabs-l mailing list
> nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nabs-l:
> http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/raniaismail04%40gmail.com
>


-- 
Rania Ismail LMT
Need a massage? Did you know that you can now schedule your
appointment online? Visit my website! www.ranialmt.com


From rbacchus228 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 19:03:55 2015
From: rbacchus228 at gmail.com (Roanna Bacchus)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 15:03:55 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A new member
Message-ID: <560c324f.5720810a.83589.5a96@mx.google.com>

Hi Tessa welceme to the Nabs list.  My name is Roanna Bacchus.  I 
am also from the state of Florida.


From internetradioentertainer at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 22:05:36 2015
From: internetradioentertainer at gmail.com (David Dunphy)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:05:36 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] A Performing Arts Division Related Presentation And The
 Reliving Of The Djd Invasion, Don't Miss This
Message-ID: <CAMjrC+wsGtVf9X5hqv3uhVZy9SDy=-4kmhvhQhR2vwweO=4=gg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi All!
As some of you know or may have heard, Jordy Stringer is no longer the
president of the Performing Arts Division.
He wishes to speak to all of you regarding this, so, as a special
treat tonight, join me for The Djd Invasion Returns Special, starting
at 7 PM eastern tonight and going til 10PM eastern tonight at
http://www.mytvland.net/djdreturns
In addition to great music, from pop to rock to country and yes some a
cappella, Jordy Stringer will be calling in at 8:30PM eastern to say
some things about the changes to the performing arts division and
more.
He welcomes your questions, so to make requests of me, or talk with
him live tonight, you can add
aaonacaville
to Skype or call in at
516 665 1852
to interact during the show.
Again, all listen links can be found at
http://www.mytvland.net/djdreturns
so be sure to not miss this performing arts related presentation and
some great music!
>From David Dunphy


From jlestermusic at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 22:53:27 2015
From: jlestermusic at gmail.com (josh lester)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 17:53:27 -0500
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about a textbook for college!
Message-ID: <CAEpB4bibvbkj4-9dGq3DtrGoT-hULsRLxcJH+ZvfE8jsg78KKA@mail.gmail.com>

Hi all.
If anyone knows where we can find Interpersonal Communication,
Everyday Encounters 7th edition in BRF, please write me off list.
I have a friend who needs it for one of her classes.
Thanks

-- 
Joshua Lester
Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ
"Then Peter said unto them repent and be baptized everyone of you in
the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins and ye shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts, 2:38.)


From justin.williams2 at gmail.com  Wed Sep 30 22:54:34 2015
From: justin.williams2 at gmail.com (justin williams)
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 18:54:34 -0400
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about a textbook for college!
In-Reply-To: <CAEpB4bibvbkj4-9dGq3DtrGoT-hULsRLxcJH+ZvfE8jsg78KKA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAEpB4bibvbkj4-9dGq3DtrGoT-hULsRLxcJH+ZvfE8jsg78KKA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <006801d0fbd2$f9c4e9c0$ed4ebd40$@gmail.com>

Try book share.
Justin.

-----Original Message-----
From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of josh lester via
nabs-l
Sent: Wednesday, September 30, 2015 6:53 PM
To: nabs-l at nfbnet.org
Cc: josh lester
Subject: [nabs-l] Question about a textbook for college!

Hi all.
If anyone knows where we can find Interpersonal Communication, Everyday
Encounters 7th edition in BRF, please write me off list.
I have a friend who needs it for one of her classes.
Thanks

--
Joshua Lester
Blessings to you in the name of Jesus Christ "Then Peter said unto them
repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost," (Acts,
2:38.)

_______________________________________________
nabs-l mailing list
nabs-l at nfbnet.org
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nabs-l_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nabs-l:
http://nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nabs-l_nfbnet.org/justin.williams2%40gmail
.com