[nabs-l] my blog about my experiences at LCB

Fri Sep 11 18:33:01 UTC 2015

Not allowing students to use guide dogs in travel classes is
understandable since it would significantly alter the skills the
student is being taught. I do think that incorporating the dog into
travel classes once the student becomes proficient in structured
discovery methods would be beneficial to the student. This would give
her the opportunity to start applying the skills she has learned while
traveling with a cane to a dog while still having the opportunity to
receive feedback and ask questions to a qualified instructor.
Orientation skills are important regardless of the type of mobility
aid, but the feedback one gets from the environment differs with a
cane when compared to a dog.

That being said, I see the NFB center policy that forbids students
from being allowed to work their dogs during other (non-travel
related) classes to be blatantly discriminatory. There is no reason
why a student should not bring her dog to say Braille instruction.
These students are adults who need to find a balance between working
their dogs and practicing cane travel. How do centers handle
non-guiding service dogs? More complicated, what are their policies
regarding guides that are cross trained for other tasks?

I truly think some non-dog users do not fully understand how guide
dogs work. You can not expect leaving a dog for a near constant eight
hours a day, five days a week will not have negative consequences from
damaging the bond to stress and boredom related behaviors to more
frequent mistakes due to lack of work. I know the majority of NFB
members are respectful of others mobility choices, but an anti-dog
ideology still lingers no matter how much people deny it. Perhaps it
is due to lack of education. It seems as if people with anti-views
often have a distorted idea of how a guide dog partner ship works in
my experience. I honestly don't know.

I find it troubling that negative experiences and criticism of NFB
sponsored programs is so discouraged on these lists. I'm not trying to
be derogatory or critical. I want to make situations better, and you
can not do that if you only focus on the positives.

Danielle

On 9/11/15, minh ha via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Organizational differences aside, I'm honestly disappointed that
> members of this list cannot express negative opinions without being
> branded as disagreeable and as someone who is actively working against
> the NFB. Everybody is entitled to their opinions, and other people
> have expressed displeasure at how they have been treated by the NFB
> training centers, and yet, only Tyler have been targeted by you and
> Katherine on list for his messages. This has been a recurring problem
> from what I have seen, and if I didn't know any better, I would say
> you and Katherine have a personal issue with Tyler since he is on
> ACBS's board. And quite frankly, organizational affiliation doesn't
> even have any relevance in this conversation when it comes to being
> discriminated by the NFB.
>
> Minh
>
> On 9/11/15, Derek Manners via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Hello all, mostly Kate, Tyler, and Hope.
>>
>> First,  I agree that Kate should not try to shut down negative opinions.
>> However, I think Kate did a poor job of articulating what she meant when
>> she
>> expressed disapproval of Tyler's message. Her problem with it, I assume,
>> is
>> the tone. You can disagree without being disagreeable and unfortunately
>> Tyler has shown a propensity to be disagreeable, specifically to Kate
>> during
>> her campaign announcement which he later apologized for.
>>
>> Second, the NFB training centers have a certain philosophy when it comes
>> to
>> guide dogs. I think of it as being a similar philosophy as to why my
>> cousin
>> taught me how to drive a car even though I can't legally drive one. 1.
>> There
>> may come a time when I'd need to and there may come a time in a guide dog
>> user's life when they need to use a cane over a dog and being versed in
>> both
>> is important if you are a dog user. Second, there are lessons that came
>> travel teach you about mobility with regard to structured discovery that
>> are
>> important when using a cane or a dog.
>>
>> As to the computer training, I know for a fact that LCB gives advanced
>> instruction to those who need it. Specifically, my friends Kate Webster
>> and
>> Syed Rizvi have gotten/will be getting training on coding as a blind
>> person.
>> Talking to a trainer informally who may or may not know what they are
>> talking about is quite different than working out a formal plan through
>> voc
>> rehab and the center.
>>
>> Finally, Tyler, you really ought to disclose to folks when you are talking
>> about your philosophical views about the NFB that you are on the ACB
>> student
>> board and that ACB routinely publicly criticizes NFB and our philosophy.
>> Your opinions are not those of someone who normally agrees with NFB
>> philosophy who is pointing out a minor difference, you are someone who, in
>> certain instances, works against our legislative efforts, our
>> philosophical
>> message, and actively tries to influence state agencies that we are wrong
>> and your organization is right.
>>
>> You can obviously post anything you like and I think it's healthy to
>> debate
>> philosophical differences. But you should do it in an agreeable tone and
>> you
>> should fully disclose your elected position.
>>
>> Best regards
>> Derek Manners
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 12:48 PM, Carlos Montas via nabs-l
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I would say that is why you have consumer choice as to what kind of
>>> rehabilitation center you would like to attend.  That is the wonderful
>>> thing about America the freedom of choice.
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:40 AM, Hope Paulos via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have to chime in here.  I also have a dog and won't attend a training
>>>> center because I can't use him. I understand not being able to use them
>>>> for travel classes, that makes sense, but not being able to use him for
>>>> cooking, shop, and braille classes? I am also put off by the arrogance
>>>> of
>>>> some of the NFB center instructors. I was working the booth as a trainer
>>>> at the convention for an assistive technology company.  A center
>>>> instructor came up wanting to look at some of the products we had on
>>>> display. I showed them the products, and then proceeded to ask them a
>>>> question. Because I have a graduate certificate in assistive technology,
>>>> as well as a graduate certificate in technical support, I wanted to know
>>>> if my technology classes would be tailored to my advanced needs. The
>>>> instructor proceeded to laugh at me, and told me "graduate certificate
>>>> or
>>>> not, you will go through the same class as everyone else, starting with
>>>> keyboarding." My colleague, who was sitting beside me, and I were
>>>> shocked
>>>> at this person's attitude… keep in mind, I am a trainer for an assistive
>>>> technology company, and I have to start with keyboarding? I also have a
>>>> bachelors degree in education… The first thing that you learned about
>>>> teaching is that everybody learns differently, and everybody is on
>>>> different levels… Education cannot be "One-size-fits-all."
>>>> Unfortunately,
>>>> this seems to be the philosophy of the NFB centers.
>>>> Sorry for the rant! On a more positive note, I look forward to reading
>>>> your blog, and hope that you have A wonderful time and learn a lot.
>>>>
>>>> Hope Paulos
>>>>
>>>>> On Sep 11, 2015, at 8:29 AM, Littlefield, Tyler via nabs-l
>>>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>>>> Hash: SHA1
>>>>>
>>>>> I was going to ask about your experience with a dog, given the name of
>>>>> your blog. I find it rather amusing that NFB-associated centers
>>>>> discrimenate so hard against dogs, yet they're the first to scream
>>>>> discrimenation. I was not hired to a program last summer and it was
>>>>> mostly because I didn't answer the rather pointed questions about what
>>>>> I would do with my dog (like if he could stay in a room) for classes,
>>>>> quite the way they wanted. There I think my hope in the NFB, at least
>>>>> what remained of it shattered to pieces. We're the first to ask for
>>>>> equal access, yet equal access is not provided unless you have a
>>>>> straight white cane and drink the Cool-Aid.
>>>>>> On 9/11/2015 8:17 AM, Aleeha Dudley via nabs-l wrote:
>>>>>> Hey all, If you’d like to read about my experiences at LCB, here is
>>>>>> a link to my blog. http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com
>>>>>> <http://4pawsatmyside.wordpress.com/> I will be detailing my
>>>>>> experiences in class, as well as those with my guide dog, Dallas,
>>>>>> especially given the center’s policies about guide dogs. I
>>>>>> apologize if this is off topic for the list. Feel free to write me
>>>>>> off list with questions. Aleeha Dudley
>>>>>> _______________________________________________ nabs-l mailing
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>>>>> - --
>>>>> Take care,
>>>>> Ty
>>>>> twitter: @sorressean
>>>>> web:http://tysdomain.com
>>>>> pubkey: http://tysdomain.com/files/pubkey.asc
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>>>>>
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>
>
> --
> Minh Ha
> Boston College | Lynch School of Education '16
> minh.ha927 at gmail.com
>
> "All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty
> recesses of their minds, wake in the day to find that it was vanity:
> but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on
> their dreams with open eyes, to make them possible." T. E. Lawrence
>
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