[nabs-l] Accessibility of apartment documents

Mon Apr 25 00:51:44 UTC 2016

Hi all,

Greg, those were my thoughts exactly.  I've also heard of situations
where one party in the agreement, either landlord or tenant, violates
the agreement in some way and the lease is a good reference for
setting those issues straight.  My father has a few 2-family houses he
rents out so I've seen him deal with that situation as a landlord, but
I think it would be possible for landlords to try to push a tenant
around, too.  Your situation of having a lease that said the apartment
renter could enter at any time they felt like it is a perfect example,
or there could be other policies I might want to refer to.  I've found
with other documents that saying, "On page such and such of the lease
it says X" is more helpful than just saying what the document might
say, because it shows the other party that you know the information.

Anna, I definitely agree with you about the importance of having
someone come with me to look over the lease.  While I do see
Elizabeth's point about not always having someone available in every
situation, I wouldn't want to mess with this and take a chance either.
I plan to just schedule the meeting for a time when I could have
someone come along if I can't get them to email me an electronic copy,
which of course I'll try first.  Thankfully, I think that I'm working
far enough in advance that I could factor in extra time to set up a
convenient meeting for myself, a sighted reader, and the realtor if I
need to.

Elizabeth, I was asking about legal stuff because I am aware that the
company might not fully know what they are obligated to do.  I am also
aware that even if they are obligated to do something they might not
follow through on it, but at least that way I can have a leg to stand
on in the way Anna described by educating them.  If they don't know
they should provide apartment notices in accessible formats, for
example, that could be something I discuss with them and hopefully
sort out before it is ever a problem.  It's not about me gunning at
them to give me this and that as I'm seeming to get your impression
is, it's about making sure I have a good working relationship with
them and can access important print information as best I can.  I deal
with plenty of print paperwork myself, but this is something new for
me as campus housing doesn't have leasing agreements and the like so
I'm just looking for information to tell them strategies of getting me
information in ways I can use it.  Of course I can use KNFB reader or
human readers in a pinch, but if I can get something in electronic
text then of course I'm going to try to get it.  I don't know how my
character-or at least the one you say you see in my emails-necessarily
relates to my fact-finding, but I guess I hope this clears up
something.

On 4/24/16, Greg Aikens via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hi Kaiti,
> I just wanted to add that you really do want to get an accessible version of
> your lease to read and keep on hand. Even though you may not refer to it
> often, if you do need to refer to it, it is usually about something
> important. They should have an electronic copy that they are modifying to
> apply to your specific apartment, so having them email it should not be a
> problem. You may still need to convert it to something accessible at that
> point. It is worth pushing for so that there are no surprises when you go to
> sign. Also, having it ahead of time, you can ask others about parts you do
> not understand.
>
> For example, one time I went to sign a lease and there was a clause that
> said the landlords could enter the property at any time without prior
> notice. That’s not normal but I didn’t know enough to ask about it during
> the signing. That shouldn’t happen with a large apartment complex, but you
> want to be aware.
>
> Best of luck,
>
> Greg
>
>
>> On Apr 24, 2016, at 2:33 PM, Anna via nabs-l <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>
>> I think Elizabeth's suggestion of having the lease sent to you by email or
>> something prior to signing it could be a good idea too.  They must have it
>> in electronic format somewhere, or else where do they print it from,
>> right?
>> I have rented at least six different apartments on my own in my life so
>> far, and every time it has been the same process so I assume it will be
>> the same with yours.  Here's what happens:  once your application is
>> approved, a time is set up with the landlord or building manager,
>> depending on the situation, to get together with them, they go over the
>> lease with you at that time and you sign it there and they hand you your
>> keys.  The lease is 3-5 pages I would say.  If you are BUYING an
>> apartment, like a condo, then yes it would be a lot longer and different.
>> But just for a lease, it is not that long that I've ever seen.  (You could
>> always ask them how many pages it is).  Although I think having them send
>> it to you via email or something prior to this meeting is a good option, I
>> personally would still want to have a person I know and trust to come with
>> me to the lease signing.  Chances are, the landlord or manager is not
>> going to skip things, and will follow your instructions, and will be very
>> honest, but you have no way of knowing that.  A lease is a legal document
>> concerning your residence.  That is not a document I want to risk anything
>> with.  There are plenty of documents I have people help me fill out or
>> read to me even if I don't know them, but a lease for my place of living
>> is not something I would choose to take chances with.  That's just my
>> opinion.  Also if you do bring someone with you, you could bring someone
>> who has rented before as well, that way they may think of questions to ask
>> at that meeting that you may not think of, since it's all new to you.
>> Just an idea.  All you have to do with a lease is read it, sign it and
>> maybe initial by a couple things.
>> It sounds like you're doing really well preparing for this.  And it sounds
>> like you are working well with them and they are working well with you.
>>
>> Good luck!
>>
>> Anna E Givens
>>
>>
>>> On Apr 24, 2016, at 11:50 AM, Elizabeth Mohnke via nabs-l
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello Kaiti,
>>>
>>> I encounter paper forms on a fairly regular basis, and I believe it is
>>> important for a blind person to find a way to deal with print forms in a
>>> way
>>> that works best for them. I agree with you that sighted people are often
>>> just as concerned about how information is formatted as much as the
>>> information itself. Since I do not have the luxury of being able to bring
>>> a
>>> sighted person with me every time I need to fill out a printed form, I
>>> usually ask the person giving me the print form if they can help me fill
>>> it
>>> out. Alternatively, you could pick the print form up ahead of time, or
>>> have
>>> someone mail the print form to you, and you can then ask a reader to help
>>> you fill it out. Or you could scan it without keeping the format of the
>>> print form, and simply print it out for them. Despite all the technology
>>> out
>>> there today, print forms still appear to be rather common to me.
>>>
>>> As for the information on the lease, you can simply ask the landlord to
>>> go
>>> over it with you. When I signed the first lease to my current apartment,
>>> I
>>> asked my landlord to go over the information in the lease with me before
>>> I
>>> signed it. Although she did not read it word for word, she was willing to
>>> go
>>> over the important parts of the lease with me and explain them in a way
>>> that
>>> made sense to me. I felt as though I received enough information from the
>>> landlord to feel comfortable enough to sign the lease.
>>>
>>> However, I understand some people may feel more comfortable reading it
>>> word
>>> for word before signing it. In this case, you could ask the landlord to
>>> email a copy of it to you so you can read it on whatever technology you
>>> choose to use. Additionally, you could simply ask to receive a print copy
>>> of
>>> the lease, and then sign it after you have the chance to read it either
>>> by
>>> scanning the lease or asking someone to read it to you.
>>>
>>> However, I feel like if I cannot trust someone to fill out a print form
>>> accurately, or provide an honest summery or reading of a print document,
>>> then perhaps it simply is not best for me to be doing business with this
>>> person in the first place. If the form asks for personal information I do
>>> not feel comfortable sharing in front of other people, I simply make sure
>>> the form is being filled out in a private room. When I am asked to give
>>> someone my address, I will simply give them a copy of my state
>>> identification card, and ask them to copy it from there without reading
>>> it
>>> aloud.
>>>
>>> I think it is good to ask for reasonable accommodations whenever you feel
>>> as
>>> though you need them. However, it seems to me that simply because there
>>> are
>>> rules and laws stating we should receive reasonable accommodations, this
>>> does not necessarily mean that people will actually follow these rules
>>> and
>>> laws. I understand it is not fair to be discriminated against because of
>>> blindness, but based on my experience, this is simply a part of life.
>>>
>>> A couple of months ago, people suggested that I attend an NFB training
>>> center as a means for trying to deal with a particular situation in my
>>> life.
>>> Although I understand an NFB training center is not for everyone, I am
>>> curious if you have ever thought of attending an NFB training center. I
>>> often receive the impression from the messages you post to the email list
>>> that perhaps you may not necessarily be so sure of yourself as a person.
>>> I
>>> also get the sense that you may have a rigid sense of how something needs
>>> to
>>> be in order for it to be deemed acceptable. I am not sure if these are
>>> accurate descriptions of you, or if I simply see these things in you
>>> because
>>> I see these things in myself in my own life. However, I think it is
>>> important for everyone to learn how to be okay with who they are as a
>>> person, and understand that simply because they choose to do something
>>> differently, it does not automatically make them wrong. I wish this was
>>> something I could have learned earlier in life, so I simply wish to pass
>>> this important lesson on to others.
>>>
>>> I hope what I say in this message helps you, or at the very least, helps
>>> someone else on the email list.
>>>
>>> Warm regards,
>>> Elizabeth
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nabs-l [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Kaiti
>>> Shelton
>>> via nabs-l
>>> Sent: Friday, April 22, 2016 11:13 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Kaiti Shelton <crazy4clarinet104 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: [nabs-l] Accessibility of apartment documents
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I'll be moving into my first big kid apartment (on my own with no
>>> roommates) this August.  I met with one of the realty agents that works
>>> for
>>> the apartment company today and really like what I saw in the viewing.
>>> It
>>> looks like it will be a pretty good living situation, and although I've
>>> enjoyed having roommates I'm looking forward to having a little more
>>> control
>>> over my space (No more randomly moving things in the fridge, unexpected
>>> changes in the thermostat, etc).
>>>
>>> I'm a little concerned about finding out what my accessibility-related
>>> rights are.  This is new for me and I am doing research on my own, but I
>>> thought turning here would also be useful.  I was a little disheartened
>>> when
>>> I found the company didn't have an electronic way for me to complete the
>>> apartment application.  The agent was nice enough to fill out most of it
>>> with me and was amenable to having my parents scan the completed copy as
>>> a
>>> PDF and email in their co-signer portion since they're in a different
>>> city,
>>> but as far as me filling it out in an accessible format she didn't seem
>>> to
>>> know of a way to make it work without messing up the formatting of the
>>> application form.
>>> I'm kind of feeling "whatever" about it at this point because the form
>>> was
>>> pretty short and painless/not necessarily worth a huge fuss over
>>> accessibility, but I am more concerned with making sure I get an
>>> accessible
>>> copy of the contract/lease so I can reference it if necessary while I am
>>> in
>>> the property.  I understand that having independent access to this kind
>>> of
>>> documentation is very important, and want to make sure I start working
>>> with
>>> the company in advance if necessary.
>>>
>>> My questions are: If the company doesn't already have an electronic copy
>>> of
>>> the lease how, exactly, would they be required to share it with me in a
>>> format I can use?  What would be acceptable options to tell them if they
>>> have no clue?  If they decide to send it somewhere else to be brailled
>>> would
>>> that come out of their pocket or my own?
>>>
>>> Of course, I recognize that they could/should have a scanner somewhere in
>>> their offices, and therefore scanning the lease and making an accessible
>>> copy wouldn't be too terribly hard.  However, I'm not sure who's
>>> responsibility it would be and am a little skeptical of that working out
>>> if
>>> they were unable to make the application available to me in a format I
>>> can
>>> use.  I really don't mind the application, but I honestly don't want to
>>> sit
>>> down with a reader and go through a 60-plus page document if I can help
>>> it.
>>> 2 pages are one thing, ut from what I understand leases are much longer.
>>>
>>> Any tips or bits of knowledge anyone could pass on would be appreciated.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kaiti Shelton
>>> University of Dayton-Music Therapy
>>> "You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"
>>>
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-- 
Kaiti Shelton
University of Dayton-Music Therapy
President, Ohio Association of Blind Students 2013-Present
Secretary, The National Federation of the Blind Performing Arts
Division 2015-2016

"You can live the life you want; blindness is not what holds you back!"