[nabs-l] {Spam?} Re: More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Mon Mar 13 02:00:11 UTC 2017

Elizabeth,

I hope you are reading this. I just wanted to say that I commend your 
advocacy with the school and I think you are selecting the best accomodation 
for your situation. Most schools do not produce braille anyways, so you'd 
likely need a reader for exams regardless of your skills.
Math is hard enough and directing a reader to read charts and graphs is hard 
even with good readers.
I feel your pain regarding the lack of qualified readers at college. I was 
required to use college issued readers for exams as well. Most read well but 
some stumbled over words and I felt were not good readers. I used large 
print for math so did not run into the issue you did. But sometimes my 
history or religion classes had foreign words my readers could not pronounce 
and I had to have them spell the words. I wished I had control over the 
readers and I wanted a qualified reader.

Unfortunately, I do not know the definition of a qualified reader. You are 
right that Title II of the ADA uses that term. I'll do a little research and 
if I find something I'll let you know. Meanwhile, I wish you success in
your advocacy. To get some guidance about your rights, you might try Valerie 
at the national office. You could also try some disability advocacy group 
such as an independent living center or the American civil liberties union.

Feel free to write off list to me at bookwormahb at earthlink.net.

Ashley
-----Original Message----- 
From: Elizabeth Mohnke via NABS-L
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 4:48 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Hello Jen,

Again, thank you for your suggestion. I understand the value of receiving 
training at an NFB training center. However, regardless of what my blindness 
skills may be, my college does not have the means to produce math materials 
in Braille, and my college uses an inaccessible online learning platform for 
math classes. Unless any of these things change, I believe using a reader is 
the best option for me to gain equal access to the course materials for my 
math classes.

I believe blind people should be able to choose whatever accommodation works 
best for them in any given particular situation. Simply because you do not 
believe successful independent blind people should use readers when the 
situation calls for it does not necessarily mean that blind people are any 
less successful or independent for using readers as an accommodation.

I greatly appreciate all the responses I have received on the email list 
regarding information that is helpful for completing my complaint form. 
However, now that the conversation has shifted to how attending an NFB 
training center is a one size fits all solution to every problem that a 
blind person faces in life, I will no longer be responding to messages in 
this email thread.

The National Federation of the Blind continues to issue press releases 
regarding the legal assistance they are providing to other blind college 
students who face the exact same barriers as me in receiving equal access to 
course materials and student services on their campuses. However, I have 
never seen any of these press releases question the blindness skills of 
these students. Therefore, I do not understand why people feel the need to 
do this to me. The only thing this really does is push people away from 
being a part of this organization.

Warm regards,
Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jen via NABS-L
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 2:34 PM
To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list' 
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Jen <spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Hi Elizabeth,

I know your e-mail wasn't directed to me, but I would like to respond.
Attending an NFB center would help you learn alternative techniques, like 
braille. This way, when you went back to school, you wouldn't need to have a 
reader, and independence would increase greatly for you. . Is there a way 
you could ammend the form to to turn into a justification to attend an NFB 
center?

Jen

spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net

-----Original Message-----
From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth 
Mohnke via NABS-L
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2017 11:05 AM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Hello Vejas,

Thank you for this suggestion, but I am not quite sure how planning to 
attend an NFB training center at some point in the future is going to help 
me write an official complaint form I am currently trying to figure out how 
to write.

Warm regards,
Elizabeth

-----Original Message-----
From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas 
Vasiliauskas via NABS-L
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 10:28 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Vejas Vasiliauskas <alpineimagination at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers

Have you ever thought of attending a blindness training center such as LCB, 
Blind Inc or CCB? You could learn Braille there. Some people will then go 
back to the same college with a fresh attitude, or just make a fresh start 
at a different college. You could also learn more about advocacy at the 
seminars at the centers.
Vejas

> On Mar 11, 2017, at 18:31, Elizabeth Mohnke via NABS-L
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
wrote:
>
> Hello Jen,
>
> Thank you for your encouragement to continue to learn alternative
techniques as an older non-traditional student. I plan to continue to use 
and improve upon my Braille skills while completing the rest of my college 
classes. However, I personally do not know of anyone who has learned Braille 
as an older adult who is able to use it as a primary mode of communication 
in college level classes. Therefore, I feel as though I am simply being 
realistic regarding my own personal goals.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Jen via
NABS-L
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 9:23 PM
> To: 'National Association of Blind Students mailing list'
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Jen <spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
>
> Re: "nor do I believe I will ever have the Braille skills to use
> Braille
in a college-level math class"
>
> I can feel the frustration and pain in your post. It must be difficult
navigating college and blindness at the same time. Although I am not an 
older student, I can say it's never too late to learn alternative 
techniques.
>
> Jen
>
> spiderweb1 at sbcglobal.net
>
> -----Original Message-----
>
>
> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Elizabeth
Mohnke via NABS-L
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2017 1:32 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Elizabeth Mohnke <lizmohnke at hotmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hello Vejas,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to respond to my message. I agree with
everything you mention in your email. However, the current personnel of my 
college disabilities office does not necessarily agree that my reader needs 
to be proficient in math in order to be a reader for math. I have not been 
successful in arguing for the use of my own readers instead of the readers 
they assign to me from the disabilities office either.
>
> Since I do not know Braille well enough to use in a college level math
class, nor do I believe I will ever have the Braille skills to use Braille 
in a college level math class, I do not know how to gain equal access to the 
course materials required for my math classes besides the use of a reader 
who is proficient in reading math. Therefore, I am looking for credible 
sources regarding the definition of a qualified reader as this is the term 
that is used in the Americans With Disabilities Act as a reasonable 
accommodation.
>
> Right now I feel as though the disabilities office is simply putting
> up
roadblocks that are only preventing me from being able to use the 
accommodations I need to successfully complete my math requirements required 
for my degree and transfer requirements. And so now I need to go write the 
complaint form that I need to file within my college so maybe I might be 
able to receive the accommodations I need to receive equal access to the 
course materials required for my math classes.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Vejas
Vasiliauskas via NABS-L
> Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2017 6:05 PM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Vejas Vasiliauskas <alpineimagination at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hi Elizabeth,
> I didn't know that there was such a thing as a "qualified"
> reader"-I have learned that there are volunteer and paid readers.
> I would think that the ideal math and science reader should be able to
understand how to do all the basic math and science symbols.
> I have a math reader.  I have the book in Braille, but it is to
> clarify
with diagrams.  She's a freshman at my college also, and took the material I 
am currently taking last semester, so it is nice and fresh in her mind.  (As 
I mentioned awhile back in one of my other emails to you, my Disability 
Services chooses readers by departments, although I fully understand that 
yours are not
> willing.)
> I think the 2 best options are:
> 1.  Department of Rehab: How flexible are they? Ideally they should be
able to pay for you to have a human reader if your DSS are unwilling.
> 2.  Find your own reader via church, putting up posters, or maybe even
emailing your Dean? They might be able to connect you with some people.
> Explain that you're looking for someone with basic math and science
abilities.  Then I sofest interviewing them.
> Since you already tried to take that course this semester, you may
> already
have some worksheets available.  Then you could ask them questions like, 
"What does this say?" Or "Can you read this?"
> So I think your ideal reader should:
> 1.  Understand basic math and science skills (if they understand
> advanced,
even better) 2.  Be willing to work with you and take your commands such as 
"slower" and "faster"
> 3.  Not have too heavy an accent.
> Hope this helps,
> Vejas
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Elizabeth Mohnke via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
<nabs-l at nfbnet.org>,NFB Science and Engineering Division List 
<nfb-science at nfbnet.org>, "NFB ofMichigan Internet Mailing List"
> <nfbmi-talk at nfbnet.org
> Date sent: Tue, 7 Mar 2017 19:46:34 +0000
> Subject: [nabs-l] More Questions Regarding Qualified Readers
>
> Hello All,
>
> Please forgive the multiple posts.  However, after sending my previous
email, I was wondering if there might be any kind of standers or guidelines 
for reading materials for math or science classes.  If there are any 
credible sources for standards or guidelines for reading materials for math 
or science classes, perhaps this might help me establish a good definition 
of a qualified reader for my math classes.
>
> I understand some of you may believe that Braille is the only way to
> go in
terms of being able to access materials for math classes.  However, as I 
have already indicated, I do not know Braille well enough to use for my math 
classes.  And as someone who grew up sighted, most of the time it is just 
easier for someone to read me a simple graphic or chart than it is for me to 
figure out how to read this information in Braille.
>
> The types of graphics and charts that were included in the math class
> that
I tried to take this semester included such things as number lines and a 
chart that was like an excel spreadsheet listing names of cities down one 
Colum and temperatures going down another Colum.  I am not quite sure what 
might be included in the other math classes that I need to take to meet the 
university math requirement for the university I would like to be able to 
transfer to after completing my associates degree.
>
> I am not looking to complete advance math classes here.  I am simply
trying to take what is required to meet the transfer requirements.  However, 
I am not quite sure how to go about fulfilling my math requirement when the 
disabilities office at the community college that I attend does not appear 
to work with me so I can gain equal access to the course required for my 
math classes.
>
> I do not know how else to gain access to the course materials required
> for
my math classes, and so far the college does not agree with me on what 
constitutes as a qualified reader.  So again, any assistance anyone could 
provide in helping me find a credible source for a good clear definition of 
qualified reader would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Elizabeth
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