[nabs-l] SHARE WIDELY: National Federation of the Blind Is Seeking to Support DREAMers
Littlefield, Tyler
tyler at tysdomain.com
Tue Sep 26 14:17:47 UTC 2017
I want to address some of Joe's points, because they're worth discussion
here.
While we do have a small scope and our work should apply to advocacy,
that does not mean that the NFB as an organization should be only
focused on blind people who are citizens; issues that affect blind
people within this country are our focus and should be. You say that
removal of DACA does not prevent those people from living the life they
want, but it most certanly does if that also revokes and puts into
question their legal status; as someone who was under DACA, they had the
chance for a future here that will not be provided them otherwise.
Also although you brush over it, learning English for everyone is not an
easy job, and depending on your resources is not always going to be the
first thing people do. Those classes cost money--and I'm sure that you
have a way for them to raise it, perhaps by picking up trash on the
street or something else just as unlikely, but the reality is that those
classes are costly. If you're blind and new to the country, you're also
going to potentially run into access barriers, which again is where the
NFB can help.
Finally and perhaps most importantly is your claim that filling out
these forms is straight-forward and accessible. I know many people who
have immigrated to the country, many of whom are sighted and speak
fairly good English and filling out these forms was certainly not a
cakewalk for them. If you want to add to that mix the fact that someone
who is blind from another country may not be exposed to screen-reading
software or have access to a system with a screen reader built in, or
may have been provided paper forms, or any of the above with the
combined note that they haven't taken the dive to become "more
employable" in your mind and learned English, this process is going to
be much more complex.
These issues affect people in different ways, and stating that people
should do x for y to occur without looking at the underlying issues and
understanding that there may be barriers that prevent that is going to
cause problems. This is not a solution in black and white where there
exists only one way out.
On 9/26/2017 9:57 AM, Sarah via NABS-L wrote:
> Joe, perhaps the diversity of experiences that people are having with immigration is why the discussion needs to be had. If you found it easy to navigate the process and Miso did not, what were the differences in your two experiences? Were they language-based? Were they differences that actually did have to do with blindness, e.g. technology you were able to obtain that she was not, tech that did not support her language at the time, etc? Yes, learning English should be a goal for anyone entering this country. I am a language professor... You might be surprised how many emails I field from people who are seeking ways to teach English effectively to refugees, specifically to teach English reading skills. For some people, learning English is not an easy process, especially if they come from a country where blindness is treated as a condition that means you are cared for instead of employable. The NFB really does need to consider what impact blindness has on immigration and refugees; and I think that it will not be the same impact for each individual who enters this country. We have the potential to be able to work collaboratively with other agencies or simply to wash our hands and say it isn't our business. But it is our business.
>
>
> Rev. Sarah Blake LaRose
> http://www.sarahblakelarose.com
> Accessible instruction in Biblical languages
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Joe Orozco via NABS-L
> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2017 7:57 AM
> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: Joe Orozco <jsoro620 at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SHARE WIDELY: National Federation of the Blind Is Seeking to Support DREAMers
>
> Hello,
>
> Interesting points. Let me offer a few rebuttals for the sake of discussion. I realize my opposition will not change anything, but hopefully the discussion is of some thoughtful value.
>
> @ Ashley:
>
> First, state rehabilitation services are not denied to persons with no legal immigration status. DACA did not magically open these services.
>
> Second, language barriers can be a challenge to all persons, not just undocumented immigrants. Learning the English language ought to be a goal for everyone to achieve to be marketable in this employment industry.
>
> Third, what government services would blind DREAMers not be able to procure if DACA truly expired? Somehow we have gotten it into our heads that before DACA, life was truly dismal for undocumented blind persons. Yes, it was challenging, but what do we suppose blind immigrants were doing before DACA was enacted under Obama? What do we assume blind persons over the age of 31 are doing now? If things have truly been that critical, why have we as a blind movement not acknowledged the epidemic sooner?
>
> You wrote: "4. Dreamers may be denied other services their fellow dreamers can partake of."
>
> Forgive me. I'm an idiot. What did you mean by this point?
>
> @ Miso:
>
> My point was not so much that disability and immigration are two different issues. My point is that with limited capital, with limited resources, why are we pursuing a narrow scope and highly controversial advocacy issue when there is already an array of social justice organizations taking up the cause?
>
> To be clear, DACA is not what keeps a blind person from living the life they want. Their legal status is creating that prevention. DACA is, at best, a short-term cure for a long-term problem.
>
> Should there be collaboration between disability rights and immigration groups? Sure, but that should be part of a general outreach strategy, not a specific initiative. By your logic, what we really ought to be doing to help blind undocumented people is provide assistance navigating the immigration process, and that isn't really a part of our core mission. It's not our expertise, and nor should it be. Our objective is more collective.
>
> Could USCIS be more accommodating? I suppose that depends on your experience. I navigated the system more than a decade ago. I did so independently, without the need for legal counsel or immigration rights advocacy. I am by no means suggesting my experience should set the bar for everyone else's progress, but in terms of website accessibility and forms, I remember being quite surprised at how straightforward the application went. Regardless of my own experiences though, here is a place where the NFB could insert itself. Government resource accessibility ought to be equal for all, not because it affects a segment of society but because public resources from any agency are legally bound to be accessible.
>
> Anyway, I don't want to belabor the point if I am a minority of one.
> The initiative feels a little random to me, a little too much like the eager kid pushing for a place at a table where we do not have strategic advantage. If we want to help DACA beneficiaries, the best way to go about it is by ensuring the equal compensation of all blind workers. We should ensure equal access to the classroom and workplace for all blind students, employees and job applicants. Our community is already too small for us to believe that blind DACA beneficiaries are somehow at a unique disadvantage.
>
> Joe
>
>
> On 9/24/17, Miso Kwak via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>> Thank you for asking.
>> For the sake of privacy, I will write without much personal details.
>> In my opinion, one issue is in navigating the process of receiving
>> accommodations when people with disabilities must work with U.S.
>> Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS.) Working with USCIS could
>> include applying for permanent residency, applying for citizenship,
>> and a range of other services.
>> Based on my personal experience, USCIS staff are not super
>> knowledgeable about how to execute accommodation for people with
>> disabilities.
>> Immigrant rights organizations are not well-equipped with knowledge on
>> requesting accommodations either based on my experience.
>> Similarly, most people in organizations like NFB are not knowledgeable
>> about immigration related procedures, and are unable to help when
>> their members seek help with immigration related matters.
>>
>> In regards to why disability and immigration are not separate issues,
>> many people come to U.S. for better medical care or simply better
>> opportunity as people with disabilities. In other words, for some
>> people, having a disability themselves or having a child with
>> disability is primary reason why they forgo the comfort of their
>> homeland and immigrate to the U.S. even when (in some cases) they risk
>> being undocumented because U.S. offers better medical care and
>> educational opportunities than their home country.
>>
>> On another note, I would like to note that NFB is not the only
>> disability rights advocacy organization that is taking a stance on
>> DACA repeal.
>>
>> National Council on Independent Living expressed its stance on this
>> article:
>> http://www.advocacymonitor.com/ncil-condemns-the-decision-to-end-daca/
>>
>> Miso
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/24/17, Sarah via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>> Miso, please explain more about your immigration process. (You may do
>>> so privately if you wish.) This is something that I for one would
>>> like to understand more about. How was this impacted by your
>>> blindness and what do immigration organizations need to know? I think
>>> that what you say here is extremely valuable, and while I agree thhat
>>> educating other organizations will take a long time I also think it
>>> is part of what we need to do. I work with other organizations that
>>> support immigrant rights in various ways, and I would like to educate
>>> them as much as possible.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rev. Sarah Blake LaRose
>>> http://www.sarahblakelarose.com
>>> Accessible instruction in Biblical languages
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Miso
>>> Kwak via NABS-L
>>> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:35 PM
>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
>>> Cc: Miso Kwak <misokwak12 at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SHARE WIDELY: National Federation of the Blind
>>> Is Seeking to Support DREAMers
>>>
>>> Joe and others who may share his sentiments, I would like to preface
>>> this email by saying that I am neither an expert, nor deeply involved
>>> in NFB leadership.
>>> However, I am also a naturalized citizen, who self-identify as a 1.5
>>> generation immigrant.
>>>
>>> So, for those who argue that disability and immigration are two
>>> completely separate issues, I am here as one of many living
>>> counterexamples to that argument.
>>>
>>> If NFB or any other organization for that matter claims to be a
>>> consumer organization promoting the blind to live the lives they
>>> want, I think it is the organization's responsibility to stand with
>>> blind people who are affected by such major policy as DACA repeal.
>>> Bluntly speaking, regardless of one's view on whether DACA should be
>>> allowed or not, it is fact that with the repeal of DACA, blind people
>>> who are DACA recepients cannot live the lives they want, figuratively
>>> and literally.
>>>
>>> My personal belief is that organizations serving the blind and
>>> immigrant rights organizations must collaborate in order to meet the
>>> needs of blind immigrants. Immigrant rights organization are not
>>> often equipped well enough to understand and serve people with not
>>> just blindness but any other disabilities. My personal experience of
>>> going through the naturalization process is one evidence.
>>> Similarly, organizations that are solely dedicated to serving people
>>> with disabilities are often poorly equipped with the ability and
>>> sensitivity to serve immigrants (whether the immigration was legal or
>>> not)
>>>
>>> I am afraid it may take too long to see collaboration between
>>> disability focused organization and immigrant rights organization,
>>> but I believe NFB's effort to learn more about the blind people
>>> affected by the repeal of DACA is a necessary first step forward.
>>>
>>> Miso Kwak
>>>
>>> On 9/24/17, Ashley Bramlett via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
>>>> Joe,
>>>>
>>>> I'll try to be nonpartisan here. The DACA is a major thing impacting
>>>> all those immigrants in it.
>>>> I would guess it may impact blind people more in the following ways:
>>>> 1. It may impact their ability to receive state vocational rehab
>>>> services that we all get or can get.
>>>> 2. Unemployment among any immigrant population is hindered by the
>>>> language
>>>>
>>>> barriers. I have seen it firsthand.
>>>> While most people can go out and grab low wage jobs, blind people
>>>> are excluded from these service sector jobs which require little
>>>> language skills. Immigrants including dreamers partake in these jobs
>>>> such as housekeeping staff at hotels, cleaning facilities in public
>>>> areas such as our colleges and universities, painting houses, and of
>>>> course lawn services.
>>>> Blind people who cannot fluently read and write english are more
>>>> negatively
>>>>
>>>> impacted. When an immigrant I know tried to take ESL classes at
>>>> Northern virginia community college, it is my understanding he could
>>>> not follow the class due to the visual nature of it such as pictures
>>>> in workbooks. And, of
>>>>
>>>> course Nova is terrible at accomodations and failed to help this
>>>> student with special needs succeed.
>>>>
>>>> 3. Blind Dreamers may also have a harder time securing other
>>>> government services.
>>>> 4. Dreamers may be denied other services their fellow dreamers can
>>>> partake of.
>>>>
>>>> I'm glad NFB is taking this up.
>>>>
>>>> Yes it is true we are vastly underemployed in general. It is true we
>>>> have a
>>>>
>>>> ways to go in that area for all Americans.
>>>> I think a huge hindrance to employment is accessibility of software.
>>>> I've seen it firsthand. I'm hoping NFB will make headway in advocacy
>>>> for accessibility sooner than later.
>>>>
>>>> Its also true that none of the NFB national resolutions spoke of
>>>> this issue.
>>>>
>>>> However, I believe the resolutions were written prior to Mr. Trump's
>>>> decision.
>>>>
>>>> Its something to ask the national office if you are still curious.
>>>> I'm a naturalized citizen too, and I definitely understand your
>>>> concerns.
>>>> As a naturalized citizen, I want to be a first class citizen and
>>>> earn my way
>>>>
>>>> including participating in the workforce but so far many barriers
>>>> have hindered me such as attitudes of employers and accessibility of
>>>> third party
>>>>
>>>> software.
>>>> However, Dreamers have unique needs and challenges which I, as a
>>>> naturalized
>>>>
>>>> citizen growing up here in American public schools, do not have.
>>>>
>>>> Good questions.
>>>> I look forward to the outcome of such studies NFB conducts.
>>>>
>>>> Ashley
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Joe via NABS-L
>>>> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:06 PM
>>>> To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list
>>>> Cc: Joe
>>>> Subject: Re: [nabs-l] SHARE WIDELY: National Federation of the Blind
>>>> Is Seeking to Support DREAMers
>>>>
>>>> Dear all,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This post has been gnawing at me for over a week. Maybe someone can
>>>> help me understand our rationale in getting involved in an issue
>>>> that is clearly partisan.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> My understanding is that the NFB seeks to enable all blind
>>>> individuals to live the life they want, irrespective of immigration
>>>> status. No argument here. I appreciate the work we do to provide
>>>> equal opportunities for everyone--regardless of their legal status,
>>>> which ought not to be any of our business anyway, and regardless of
>>>> their membership in our organization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But now we're talking about devoting already limited resources to
>>>> better inform policymakers about the administration's decision to
>>>> rescind the DACA program. I don't understand how this became a priority.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why are we suddenly interested in providing assistance to
>>>> beneficiaries of the DACA program? If we are doing our work
>>>> correctly, then one could argue the affected blind beneficiaries are
>>>> already being served.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Why would we collect statistical analyses on the unemployment rate
>>>> of the blind before and after the DACA program when we barely have a
>>>> handle on the unemployment rate among the majority of blind Americans?
>>>> If the general statistics are accurate, then the unemployment rate
>>>> among the blind is somewhere in the neighborhood of 75%. I don't
>>>> understand why our limited resources would not be devoted to solving
>>>> for the employment needs of all blind Americans as opposed to the
>>>> needs of the few. The fact we are largely excluded from the vast
>>>> majority of minimum wage jobs accessible to the rest of the
>>>> population should be of greater concern than the consequences of a
>>>> program that was legally and constitutionally controversial to start.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The DACA program is not likely to result in mass deportations and
>>>> other grim predictions forecasted by one side of the highly
>>>> polarizing issue. The point is part of a larger debate on immigration reform.
>>>> Congress should enact legislation the way it should have done when
>>>> the legislative measure was originally proposed under President Bush
>>>> in 2007, and to be fair, a bipartisan effort is underway to provide
>>>> at least a three-year reprieve to the affected community. Given the
>>>> convoluted and hotly contested nature of the overarching dialogue on
>>>> the matter, why would the NFB spend its limited political capital
>>>> appearing to take sides on this issue?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Looking through this year's resolutions, I see no mention of
>>>> devoting resources to beneficiaries of the DACA program. How do we
>>>> go about deciding outreach efforts in situations where our mission
>>>> was not directed by the objectives agreed to by our convention?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To me, the step feels like an opportunistic means of snagging
>>>> attention on an issue that is already steeped in controversy. We are
>>>> already fighting an uphill battle on employment equality for those
>>>> individuals working in sheltered environments. We already face
>>>> educational and employment disparities among highly qualified blind
>>>> permanent residents and citizens, born and naturalized.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> But, perhaps I am missing something. I'm willing to be educated. As
>>>> a naturalized citizen, I understand the benefits of something like
>>>> DACA to get ahead in this country. For that, there are other
>>>> immigration rights consumer groups. We can trust them to take up the
>>>> cry for fair treatment. We can trust them to help undocumented
>>>> individuals find and keep a place in our society. I would like to
>>>> think we place our trust in the NFB to make that society more accessible.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: NFBNet-Members-List
>>>> [mailto:nfbnet-members-list-bounces at nfbnet.org]
>>>> On
>>>> Behalf Of President, National Federation of the Blind via
>>>> NFBNet-Members-List
>>>> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2017 9:07 AM
>>>> To: nfbnet-members-list at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: [Nfbnet-members-list] SHARE WIDELY: National Federation of
>>>> the Blind Is Seeking to Support DREAMers
>>>> Importance: High
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> National Federation of the Blind Is Seeking to Support DREAMers
>>>>
>>>> As the principal vehicle for collective action for the blind in the
>>>> United States, the National Federation of the Blind is committed to
>>>> enabling all blind people, irrespective of immigration status, to
>>>> live the lives we want.
>>>> To better inform our current and future advocacy and policy
>>>> strategies, the National Federation of the Blind is collecting the
>>>> following information to better understand the impact of the
>>>> administration's recent decision to rescind the Deferred Action for
>>>> Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program among the blind in the United States.
>>>> The information collected will be used to:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Identify DREAMers who are blind in order to better understand the
>>>> impact on blind people and help inform the National Federation of
>>>> the Blind regarding ways the organization can best provide assistance.
>>>> 2. Develop an aggregate summary of the blind people in the United
>>>> States who participate in the DACA program, which can be shared with
>>>> government officials, advocates, and other interested parties.
>>>> 3. Develop statistical analyses on the unemployment rate among the
>>>> blind before and after the establishment of the DACA program.
>>>> 4. Highlight general narratives of blind people living the lives
>>>> they want because of the DACA program.
>>>> 5. Coordinate a community of blind DACA recipients in order to
>>>> maximize the resources available.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you or someone you know is blind and receives DACA benefits,
>>>> please complete the National Federation of the Blind DACA form at
>>>> the below links (available in Spanish and English), or share this
>>>> information with them. If you know of a DREAMer who does not have
>>>> internet access, we would appreciate your helping them complete the form.
>>>>
>>>> Spanish NFB DACA form: https://nfb.org/daca-es English NFB DACA form:
>>>> https://nfb.org/daca
>>>>
>>>> Together with love, hope, and determination, the National Federation
>>>> of the Blind transforms dreams into reality. Through this effort we
>>>> seek to support the hopes and dreams of blind people seeking to be
>>>> fully contributing members of our nation.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Mark A. Riccobono, President
>>>> 200 East Wells Street, Baltimore, MD 21230
>>>> (410) 659-9314 | Officeofthepresident at nfb.org
>>>> Twitter: @Riccobono
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <https://nfb.org/> Image removed by sender. National Federation of
>>>> the Blind
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/nationalfederationoftheblind> Image removed by
>>>> sender. Facebook <https://twitter.com/NFB_Voice> Image removed by
>>>> sender. Twitter <https://www.youtube.com/NationsBlind> Image removed
>>>> by
>>>> sender. Youtube
>>>>
>>>> The National Federation of the Blind is a community of members and
>>>> friends who believe in the hopes and dreams of the nation's blind.
>>>> Every day we work together to help blind people live the lives they
>>>> want.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Miso Kwak
>>> University of California, Los Angeles | 2017 Psychology B.A. |
>>> Education Studies Minor | Disability Studies Minor
>>> (909) 660-1897
>>>
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>>>
>>
>> --
>> Miso Kwak
>> University of California, Los Angeles | 2017 Psychology B.A. |
>> Education Studies Minor | Disability Studies Minor
>> (909) 660-1897
>>
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--
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