[NABS-L] {Spam?} RE: {Spam?} Re: Urgent - Studying College Level STEM Without Tactile Material

Wed Aug 19 19:43:00 UTC 2020

You can also take a reduced course load.

 That is an accommodation for someone with a disability, and you can still retain full time status.

Thanks,

Justin

-----Original Message-----
From: NABS-L [mailto:nabs-l-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf Of Bhavya shah via NABS-L
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 3:14 PM
To: National Association of Blind Students mailing list <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
Cc: Bhavya shah <bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com>
Subject: [NABS-L] {Spam?} Re: Urgent - Studying College Level STEM Without Tactile Material

Dear all,

Thank you everyone so, so much for your prompt responses. I will be enrolling this year and will be allowed to take a leave of absence if things don't work out. To be clear, my university's OAE is supporting me however possible, and we are looking into alternate ways of getting tactile graphics to me. However, if factors beyond our control make tactile graphics infeasible to provide, I have had some conversations and reflections and determined that:
(a) I have studied rigorous high school STEM curriculum without any tactile graphics (and without any alt text or Math ML content even), so I am accustomed to having only a visual descriptionist.
(b) There is precedent to blind students taking classes like the Math
50 series without tactile graphics.
(c) I have studied organic chemistry, solid state, and chemical bonding in a fair depth in high school without tactual aids so first year level Chemistry coursework should be manageable, and even if it isn't, I'd be happy to forego Chemistry in favour of other fields that fascinate me.
(d) Gene has been absolutely incredible in sharing the list of courses that he did and I now feel confident about studying subjects like psychology, sociology, linguistics, and philosophy without TGs.
(e) It's curious how most blind students in the US use Braille textbooks and tactile graphics to study STEM curriculum even in school. I recognize some unique benefits it has, and perhaps I realize over my own college journey their value, but I think it should be possible and fulfilling to study these subjects without them. Let's see.

Again, many thanks for all of your advice.

Thanks.

On 8/16/20, Gene Kim via NABS-L <nabs-l at nfbnet.org> wrote:
> Hey Bhavya,
>
> First and foremost, I sincerely hope that the OAE will be able to find 
> a solution—the transition to college is already difficult enough. I'll 
> list a few classes I presume you may be interested in based on your 
> e-mail and previous conversations and my thoughts on each, but 
> generally, while I do think you could build the first year's courses 
> in a way that makes tactile graphics not as necessary, if you find 
> that your options are too limited or that you aren't satisfied with 
> your selection, maybe it is worth considering taking a quarter or few 
> off. You can take a leave of absence at almost any time throughout the 
> year. I would also caution that since some courses are offered only 
> once/twice a year (e.g. Chem 31M), if you decide to enroll this 
> upcoming year and decide not to take those particular classes, you may 
> end up having to take them as a second or even third year in standing, 
> which could delay some of the upper divs that list those particular 
> classes as prerequisites as well. That being said, I think if you're 
> confident in your ability to visualize graphs/your spacial reasoning, 
> maybe a description and alt text would be enough. I would also 
> strongly recommend investing in something like a draftsman or 
> sensational blackboard so that you will be able to draw your own 
> low-fidelity TGs. Perhaps you could confirm with the visual 
> descriptionist if what you understood and drew are accurate (e.g. ask 
> the descriptionist to explain a Chemical bond's structure, try to draw 
> it out yourself, then show and ask them if what you drew is accurate 
> to reassure yourself that you understood it). With that, here are some classes separated by subject and my subjective thoughts:
>
> Chemistry:
> Chem 33: I am quite confident that this class dives deeply into 
> molecular structure, so I imagine it will be very challenging without 
> TGs. This class is also infamous for being extremely difficult, so I 
> would advise to take it when you have every resource at your disposal.
> (I unfortunately know very little about Chem 31A/B/M, aside from the 
> fact that 31M is also a very difficult class. I would suggest trying 
> to find an old syllabus to see how visual the concepts are or reaching 
> out to the professor. I think these classes in general will be less 
> involved than Bio or Physics, the latter of which I took and feel like 
> TGs were extremely helpful but maybe not necessary if I had an 
> effective reader and alt text.)
>
> Math:
> Math 21: Briefly looking at these concepts, I think you'll fair well 
> without TGs. A lot of these concepts are more numerical than graphical 
> (limits, integration techniques, series/sequences, etc.) I'm sure 
> graphs will pop up, but I don't remember them being extremely 
> complicated (I think alt text and visual descriptionist should be 
> enough, and even more so if you're able to sketch some of these out 
> using the tactile drawing tools mentioned above.) Math 51: I think 
> this class is extremely visual and graph intensive (especially once 
> you begin to work with contour plots and graphing beyond 2D come week 
> 4). I would strongly suggest taking this when you have tactile 
> graphics available, but I do think it can be done without them (just 
> expect to invest a lot of time and effort because the class moves near 
> unforgivingly quickly.)
>
> Computer Science:
> CS 106A: I am quite confident that you would do well in this class 
> without TGs. The graphs you may encounter will be relatively straight 
> forward, and the CS department is extremely skilled at accommodating for the blind.
> CS 106B/107: These are also very doable without TGs (I personally 
> didn't rely on them much). However, I will say that these courses use 
> more graphs than 106A. Likely the main diagrams here would be tree 
> diagrams (that may get a little complicated if just reading alt text) 
> for things like recursion, decision trees, etc (i.e. a parent tree 
> entry branches off into three children, and each of those children 
> branch off into two more children, and so on.) You also work a lot 
> with pointers, and some of the lecturers like to work out how pointers 
> change the thing they are pointing at by drawing diagrams. I didn't 
> need a TG to understand this, but it did take a lot of thinking and 
> visualizing for me to convince myself that I understood it.
>
> Psych:
> Psych 1: I believe most of the concepts here will be terminology and 
> conceptually-based. I believe there is a neuroscience unit where you 
> are taught various regions of the brain, which may be a little 
> difficult to visualize without a TG but is still doable in my opinion. 
> The class also has an emphasis on research design/different kinds of 
> study techniques, which may involve some simple graphs, but those 
> shouldn't be too difficult to visualize.
> Psych 70: This class uses almost no graphics. If you're interested in 
> social psychology to any extent, I think this would be a perfectly 
> non-compromised and exciting experience without TGs.
>
> PWR/Philosophy/Linguistics/Creative Writing:
> Anything in this general space doesn't rely on TGs at all (unless 
> there is a supplemental graph to a study you are reading for PWR or if 
> you take a Linguistics class that focuses on phonology or acoustics). 
> Phil 1, Phil 2, Phil 80, Linguistics 1, Psych 140, English 9CE, and 
> English 90 are all great classes a lot of frosh take that would be 
> exciting and not compromised without access to TGs.
>
> There are certainly enough classes here (and plenty I haven't 
> mentioned on
> explorecourses.stanford.edu) to fill a few quarters, but again if you 
> find that one quarter there aren't all that many classes that seem 
> compelling or workable, maybe it's not a bad idea to request a leave 
> of absence (course selection for the upcoming quarter is generally 
> around week 6 or 7 of the current quarter, giving you plenty of time 
> to think things through). I'd also be more than happy to give random 
> class recommendations offline if you'd like some help filtering the 
> thousands of classes our university offers each quarter.
>
> Best of luck going forward, and please don't hesitate to reach out if 
> I can help in any way (hopefully this e-mail helped somewhat).
>
> Kindly,
> Gene
> Gene Sung-Ho Kim | B.S. Candidate, Symbolic Systems | Stanford 
> University Secretary | California Association of Blind Students
>
> On Sat, Aug 15, 2020 at 8:48 PM Bhavya shah via NABS-L 
> <nabs-l at nfbnet.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> As an international incoming freshman at a US university, I am now 
>> faced with the real possibility of studying for the entirety of my 
>> frosh year online. There are so many other factors to consider, but 
>> this mail is about one specific one.
>>
>> I plan on studying subjects and taking classes that have visual 
>> content like graphs, diagrams and other figures, i.e. STEM and 
>> related areas. Since I will be enrolled remotely, my university's 
>> Office of Accessible Education has assured me (a) alt text for images 
>> in my study material, and (b) a visual descriptionist who will be a 
>> graduate student in the subject of the class. However, what is very 
>> uncertain right now is access to tactile graphics because of all the 
>> timelines and challenges of international shipping. We are still 
>> exploring this, but there is a good chance I won't be able to receive 
>> tactile graphics for the period in which I am enrolled remotely.
>>
>> Which subjects do you think have a substantial visual component to it?
>> I am not interested in physics or biology, but definitely want to 
>> take up Mathematics, try a Chemistry class or two, study new 
>> disciplines like Linguistics, and be able to have as many options 
>> open for coursework.
>> For these fields, how important do you think is tactile material to 
>> properly understand and absorb the subject matter? Could I do without 
>> it and be successful while relying only on textual and verbal means 
>> instead?
>> Do you think it is generally possible for me to design my first year 
>> course load a little differently so as to take only those classes 
>> which are less graphical in nature? I am thinking I could focus more 
>> on probability than conics in mathematics for instance. It is worth 
>> keeping in mind here that not all topics are are covered in frosh 
>> friendly courses so my ability to do this may be limited.
>>
>> The reason why I indicate urgency in the subject line is because I 
>> need to take my call about going ahead with remote enrollment or 
>> considering a gap year very soon. Any inputs or perspectives are 
>> hugely appreciated.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Bhavya Shah
>> Stanford University | Class of (hopefully) 2024 ;
>>
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--
Best Regards
Bhavya Shah
Stanford University | Class of 2024
E-mail Address: bhavya.shah125 at gmail.com
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bhavyashah125/

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