[nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership

Marion & Martin swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Mon Apr 27 09:35:05 UTC 2009


Angie,
    It may well be "a distinction without a purpose", but as a student of 
English and grammar, a point well taken! It at least has caused my mind to 
turn! (smile) Frankly, I'll need to think on it more! Please notice the 
early time of this reply! (grin)

Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 7:57 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership


> Hi Marion,
>
> I have another question. Since "paternalism" generally involves some
> benevolent intent, would you still argue that these policies are
> paternalistic? I would agree that they are custodial, but I don't know 
> about
> paternalistic.
>
> Perhaps this is a distinction without a difference.
>
> Best,
>
> Angie
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 6:55 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership
>
> Sherri,
>    First of all, I'm not a "condemn and deplore" type of person! (smile)
> The schools have the right to establish any policy they wish while we have
> the right to disagree with that policy and work for change. I do believe
> that the logic for Leader changing its ownership policy is severely flawed
> and - if what I have been told by a couple of recent graduates is true -
> their assertion that "this is the way most schools are going" raises more
> questions than answers. Furthermore, I have never heard an argument for 
> not
> transferring ownership that seems sound to me! It smacks of paternalism 
> and
> I wonder what schools who do not think blind people can adequately care 
> for
> their dogs think of our abilities to care for our children!
>    I am also working on another resolution encouraging state affiliates to
> work on legislation criminalizing access denials, as is so in Florida,
> Georgia, Illinois, and a few other states. If I do this, the ownership
> resolution would be put on the back burner, perhaps to be introduced 
> during
> next year's convention.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 2:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership
>
>
>>I have no problem with a positively worded resolution, but I don't want 
>>any
>
>>schools condemned and deplored for their ownership policy. *smile.
>> Sherri
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 12:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership
>>
>>
>>> Would those of you with dogs from Leader, GEB, GDB, and other schools
>>> that
>>> don't grant immediate ownership have a problem with a resolution
>>> encouraging
>>> the schools to reconsider these policies and to find ways to promote
>>> self-determination for their students? I'm just curious. A resolution
>>> doesn't have to state that all NFB members will only attend schools that
>>> grant immediate ownership of the dog at graduation.
>>>
>>> I ask because if we came up with a resolution that urged Seeing Eye to
>>> reconsider some policy in light of consumer preference, I could
>>> potentially
>>> support it, even though I plan to get all my future dogs from that
>>> school.
>>>
>>> Angie
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Sherri
>>> Sent: Sunday, April 26, 2009 12:07 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership
>>>
>>> Joining the minority view, I agree. I was very pleased with my training
>>> experience at Leader and though having ownership does carry some weight
>>> and
>>> at the time I went to Leader, which was 2004, I owned my dog, I will
>>> probably go back there for my next guide dog.
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "sblanjones11" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 9:47 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership
>>>
>>>
>>>> Marion,
>>>> What's wrong with leaving it up to personal preference?
>>>> Why must everybody be forced to embrace the majority opinion as policy?
>>>> Look what happened with the issue of dogs and our training centers.  I
>>>> believe, as I expressed at the time, the NFB was not well served by
>>>> forcing
>>>> this issue.
>>>> JMHO.
>>>> Susan
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 10:05 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] NAGDU and the Policy on Ownership
>>>>
>>>> Susan,
>>>>    Perhaps I misspoke about it being "policy". Interviews are pretty
>>>> spontaneous and sometimes words don't come out the exact way they
>>>> should.
>>>> Perhaps, though, we should introduce a resolution to let the convention
>>>> of
>>>> the NFB decide this issue. What do the other members think?
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "sblanjones11" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 9:34 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Marion with Joe Ruffalo on ThruOurEyes.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Vincent, THANKS SO MUCH FOR POSTING THE LINK!
>>>>> I just finished listening, and thoroughly enjoyed the show.
>>>>>
>>>>> The one thing I would take issue with, Marion, is that we, as a
>>>>> division, all believe immediate ownership is the best policy.
>>>>> Correct me, please, if I'm wrong, but I don't remember that we ever
>>>>> voted on that as policy.
>>>>>
>>>>> I think ownership is very important, but I personally would not put it
>>>>> at the top of my list for considering a guide dog school.
>>>>> JMHO.
>>>>> Susan & Rhoda
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Vincent Chaney
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 24, 2009 12:41 AM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Cc: Joe Ruffalo
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Marion with Joe Ruffalo on ThruOurEyes.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi Everyone,
>>>>>
>>>>> The Podcast is now available on the ThruOurEyes Web Site. A short cut
>>>>> link to the page is given by Quintina but I will include it again.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.thruoureyes.org/jaws.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The next link to pick is:
>>>>> To listen to CURRENT podcasts using our JAWS friendly page Click Here
>>>>>
>>>>> The second header for the JAWS and Windoweyes users is what to look
>>>>> for.
>>>>> The
>>>>> header is titled 122 - ThruOurEyes with Joe Ruffalo
>>>>>
>>>>> This above link will actually launch/start the Podcast on your
>>>>> computer.
>>>>> To download the show, i.e. to save the show as a MP3 file, you would
>>>>> place the JAWS/WindowEyes cursor over the link. Then manually do a
>>>>> right-mouse click. The next is to choose the File Save As, pick a
>>>>> place to put the file so you can find it Then bring your focus to that
>>>>> folder and highlight the file and hit enter.
>>>>> This will start your Windows Media, Quick Time, etc. If nothing
>>>>> starts, you may have to start the Windows Media and do a File Open
>>>>> (Control O).
>>>>> Navigate
>>>>> yourself through the Windows Tree structure to the file you just
>>>>> downloaded and press enter.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unfortunately if none of these work, your choice may be to click on
>>>>> the link and listen anytime you want to hear it on your computer only.
>>>>>
>>>>> Take a look around the Web Site as you'll likely find many other
>>>>> archived shows that you will like.
>>>>> http://www.thruoureyes.org
>>>>>
>>>>> Vince
>>>>> Vincent Chaney, NFBNJ Diabetes Division President NJAGDU Committee
>>>>> Coe-Chair Lead
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Message -----
>>>>> From: "Quintina M. Singleton" <qmsingleton at comcast.net>
>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 1:23 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Marion with Joe Ruffalo on ThruOurEyes.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Podcasts are available 24 to 48 hours after broadcast. They can be
>>>>> found
>>>>> on
>>>>> our podcast
>>>>>
>>>>> or archive podcast pages.
>>>>>
>>>>> The link is www.Thruoureyes.org/jaws.html
>>>>>
>>>>> The Thruoureyes editor told me that he would be working on last 
>>>>> night's
>>>>> show
>>>>> this  afternoon.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Quintina
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "sblanjones11" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 9:09 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Marion with Joe Ruffalo on ThruOurEyes.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I went onto the Through our Eyes website, and was unable to find the
>>>>>>right
>>>>>> podcast.
>>>>>> Is there any way we could get an exact link, or a clue , for example,
>>>>>> steps,
>>>>>> as to how to get there?
>>>>>> Any help would be greatly appreciated, as I would love to listen!
>>>>>> Thanks.
>>>>>> Susan & Rhoda
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Vincent Chaney
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:50 PM
>>>>>> To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> Cc: Joe Ruffalo
>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Marion with Joe Ruffalo on ThruOurEyes.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Marion and Joe,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You both did a fabulous job on the Internet Radio Show this evening.
>>>>>> Marion,
>>>>>> the details and descriptions of your working with 3 Guide Dogs, your
>>>>>> knowledge and background on the philosophy of the NFB and GDU support
>>>>>> since
>>>>>> you joined in 1985 or 1987 was a good knowledge point to share for 
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> NFB
>>>>>> support and welcoming Guide Dog User partners into the NFB. The
>>>>>> description
>>>>>> of the purpose and goals of NAGDU were uplifting and positively
>>>>>> stated.
>>>>>> You
>>>>>> and Joe commented on the formation of the NFBNJ committee, NJAGDU. 
>>>>>> We,
>>>>>> from
>>>>>> the committee, are building a NFBNJ state advocacy team and thank you
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> joining us this past Sunday for our monthly meeting as the NAGDU
>>>>>> President.
>>>>>> You added a personal touch on your working with your dogs and how, 
>>>>>> why
>>>>>> or
>>>>>> when you choose to travel via a cane, sighted guide or another 
>>>>>> method.
>>>>>> These
>>>>>> points are very good especially for first time Guide Dog Users and
>>>>>> good
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> hear as old timers that we do similar methods in working with our 
>>>>>> four
>>>>>> legged partners.
>>>>>> I look forward to your next visit to the ThruOurEyes radio and future
>>>>>> topics
>>>>>> you may share with everyone. For anyone who may have missed the live
>>>>>> broadcast, the shows are available as a Podcast or through the 
>>>>>> archive
>>>>>> link
>>>>>> on www.thruoureyes.org. If this works, the link is:
>>>>>> http://www.thruoureyes.org and will be there in a day or two.
>>>>>> As you have shared on a very difficult time now for you and your 
>>>>>> wife,
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> heart goes out to Merry on the pending loss of her dear partner. All
>>>>>> God's
>>>>>> blessings, comfort, strength be with the both of you...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Vincent Chaney, NFBNJ Diabetes Division President NFBNJ NJAGDU
>>>>>> Coe-Chair
>>>>>> Lead _______________________________________________
>>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
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>>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/sblanjones11%40sbcglo
>>>>>> bal.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>> .net
>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>>
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