[nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach

Sharonda Greenlaw sbgreenlaw at gmail.com
Fri Aug 28 20:46:28 UTC 2009


hey all,
This isn't meant towards anyone on this list, but can we change the subjet
to reflect more of what the conversation is about? It's definitely not about
Dave, Tammy and Maddox Anspach. Thanks.
Sharonda


On 8/14/09, Tamara Smith-Kinney <tamara.8024 at comcast.net> wrote:
>
> Oh, yeah.  Owner training is not the sort of thing one just casually works
> into real life.  /smile/  Which is why I love all the discussion here about
> the various schools and how things work out and what people think of
> various
> programs and attitudes.  All while quite cheerfully playing armchair
> quarterback, of course!
>
> And no, I didn't think you implied that you didn't find some things
> custodial or that you were trying to be argumentative!  And I actually
> think
> it's very interesting to learn more about how schools do things by hearing
> from real-life graduates.  It's a pretty amazing thing they do, and when
> one
> takes part in it, one chooses to take the parts one finds personally
> inconvenient or irritating or whatever in order to experience the very
> great
> good.
>
> Of course, owner-training has its real downsides, too.  It's that, going by
> my own experience and from getting to know some really excellent
> owner-trainers, you really have to love it to keep at it, so you just
> accept
> the parts that make most people's hair stand on end.  /smile/  In that,
> it's
> a lot like math or the law. Or even getting through a month of guide dog
> school. /grin/ The rewards are great, but you have to choose to put
> yourself
> through an awful lot to get to them.
>
> Here's hoping Yan-Yan lives to be the Methuselah of dogs!  And Mitzi, too,
> of course. /smile/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Angie Matney
> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 1:14 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach
>
> Hey Tami,
>
> I don't blame you! I wish I were in a position to try owner-training (not
> now, of course, because Yani is going to work for another 453 years). I
> considered working with a private trainer for my second dog, but given my
> weird school/work situation, I had to admit that realistically, I needed a
> dog who could hit the ground running, so to speak. I was very pleased with
> the way Seeing Eye matched me with Yan-Yan.
>
> I also didn't mean to imply that nothing the schools do strikes me as
> custodial. For me, though, matching isn't one of those things. Of course,
> you might react completely differently.
>
> I love hearing about your teamwork with Mitzi and the serendipitous way in
> which you found each other.
>
> Angie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 12:17 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach
>
> Angie,
>
> Well said.  Given the numbers of successful matches the schools turn out on
> a steady basis, one can only assume they know what they're doing.  /smile/
> It's just my stubborn independent streak, I guess.  Which, if I do decide
> to
> go through a program next time, I will have to deal with.
>
> Then again, I'm hooked on owner-training!  If I choose to do that again, I
> will have to find a new prospect all by my ownself in the hopes that
> whichever pup I pick for myself will be a guide dog when it grows up.  The
> chances of my picking a successful prospect on the first go are
> approximately nil to none. /grin/  Well, a bit higher than that, but it's
> scary to really think about, and I've watched some owner-trainer friends go
> through the process of finding a new prospect, and the very idea makes my
> hair stand on end.
>
> Whereas, if I go through a program, my odds of ending up with a successful
> match are nearly as close to 100 percent as my odds are of picking the
> right
> puppy myself are to zero.  Who said stubborn independence was
> mathematically
> sound?  /grin/
>
> My getting Mitzi was such a combination of serendipity and timing and just
> dumb luck that it's a mystery to me how I came to have a guide dog to go
> about with.  Every once in awhile, it will still strike me that I'm
> striding
> along beside my dog like we're some kind of guide dog team or something and
> have a moment of terro because that simply cannot be.  How silly is that?
>
> Life is a weird place to live.
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Angie Matney
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 3:47 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach
>
> Hi Tami,
>
> Very interesting post. I, too, like to make as many of my own decisions as
> possible. I know you weren't criticizing the programs' matching
> capabilities, just as I'm not defending them; but I will say that I really
> never felt that either instance of matching was one in which the school
> unilaterally made a decision for me. Technically, I suppose they did do
> just
> that both times. But in each instance, I had a great deal of input into
> what
> I wanted. The second time around, I was much better at articulating what I
> wanted. I think this was especially good since I had changed schools,  but
> I
> think it's always helpful.
>
> The schools further assessed me with home visits, which I think must be
> somewhat helpful in the matching process.
>
> The first time around, I was pretty vague about what I wanted because I
> really didn't know. I didn't have tons of dog experience to draw on. I did
> say I wanted a dog who would occasionally be a challenge to me but not one
> that was totally out of control.  That was pretty much what I got. (grin) I
> think the school really wanted Glaze to go out in my class, because she was
> a reissue. I'm sure, though, that if there hadn't been a suitable match,
> she
> would have waited a month. I will never forget my roommate, a GDB
> apprentice
> instructor under blindfold, telling me how happy everybody in the kennels
> was that Glaze "got to go out again."
>
> I don't know what the point of all that was. (grin) But even though the
> school makes the initial matching choice, the grad can have a say in what
> happens after that.
>
> Angie
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 12:56 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach
>
> Hm... Interesting thought.
>
> As a wild stab, I would say the schools are trying to increase the odds
> that
> the teams they produce will be successful once they go out into the world
> together.  They have only limited knowledge of each individual handler, so
> they need some way to formalize the process of providing x dog to y human.
>
> Take me, for example.  I say that I'm an experienced with dogs, training,
> horses, etc.  I say that I am a fast walker with a busy life (when I'm
> healthy!), and so on and so forth.  So I want a fast-paced GSD and value
> quick intelligent judgment from the dog over sheer obedience.
>
> They don't know me from Adam, so how do they know I'm not making it all up?
> Or that, like so many of us, see myself inaccurately and, not being
> experienced with guide dogs, per se, don't know what I would be getting
> myself into with the above-described dog?  Maybe I'm really timid and
> afraid
> and would be overwhelmed by that dog.  Maybe I couldn't keep up or couldn't
> manage a dog with that temperament.  And so on.
>
> So Mitzi, besides being a poodle, is pretty much that type of dog.  And I
> love her!  We work well together, we adventure together in and out of
> harness and we just generally have a great time and I wouldn't trade her
> for
> the world.  As we move on from her third birthday and I see the adult she
> is, I am just dreadfully happy with her.
>
>
> She's also a complete pain in the butt.  Those traits I value most in her
> as
> she applies them to her work make her fairly high maintenance in termis of
> time and attention and play and...
>
> Let's say I keel over about the time you're thinking about getting another
> dog.  You're an experienced handler, after all, so you know how to use a
> guide dog, and Mitzi is still young enough to want to work.  So DD thinks
> aha!  Rebecca wants a guide dog, I have this guide dog with nothing to
> do...
>
> Only you have a demanding career and a child and other family duties, and
> you need a dog that fits into that lifestyle.  I'm making a lot of
> assumptions here, of course, but my first guess is that Mitzi would be too
> busy to suit your needs, even if she settles down a lot more over the next
> few months.  You might fall in love with her (who wouldn't?), you might
> appreciate many aspects of her guide work and even her manners (she
> actually
> has acquired some by now), etc.  But overall, I could see her driving you
> batty.  Then again, you would have a kid to entertain her and keep her worn
> out -- and vice versa.  /grin/  So it could work.  Not that I'm offering
> you
> my poodle! /grin/  I'll have DD donate a gourmet meal instead.
>
> It is interesting to think about.  When I was thinking I would be sensible
> and go through a program to get my first guide dog, I was frankly a little
> nervous about that whole matching business.  I mean, they have all this
> experience and know what they're doing and stuff, but I don't thrill to the
> notion of having other people make my decisions for me.  Had my life at
> that
> time continued according to plan, I would have simply had to trust the
> professionals and do my part to communicate well enough to enable them to
> make the best match. /smile/  I wonder what the dog would be like
> sometimes.
> When I'm not too busy with Ms High Maintenance!
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)
> Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 8:56 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach
>
> Marian and list,
> Does this mean that there is no merit to the statement that a dog and
> person are matched?
> If this is so, why must we as the end-users go get a dog and spend
> several weeks at a school with it? Why can't I just go to a school, say
> "I like that one" and then leave with that dog?
> I am truly curious and would be interested to know people's thoughts,
> both those who work for a school and those who do not.
> If the dogs will work for anybody once they are taught how to guide, why
> do theschools say "we matched x dog with y person"?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 7:01 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach
>
> Dar,
>    I cannot answer your questions, as I am not a representative of any
> school. I am of the opinion that, if one owns their dog and for any
> reason feels the need to transfer ownership to someone else, the school
> should have no issue with it. If that person is blind and wishes to use
> the dog as their guide, this, too, should be none of the school's
> concern. These are the rights and privileges of ownership.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "d m gina" <dmgina at samobile.net>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 4:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Dave, Tammy, & Maddox Anspach
>
>
> > See I am not concerned about this team,
> > I am not concerened about any of this, except asking one question.
> > Has different matches like this happened with other schools as well?
> > Lets say I give you the rite to have my dog if anything happens to me.
> > You agree, and this would be coming from the school where I trained my
> dog
> > with.
> > They would take my word that you are a swell handler, and they want
> the
> > dog to still be a team with someone.
> > I feel this is a plus I am at not  time unhappy with anyone.
> > My next question would be, lets say my dog had to retire, could I call
> my
> > school and say something like,
> > "is there a team who has to brake up for what evere reason, and may I
> have
> > their dog/
> > I am a swell dog handler as you know, what paper work do I need to
> fill
> > out to have this happen?
> > I hope I explained better now.
> > I think this is a swell idea.
> >
> > --
> > --Dar
> > skype
> > dmgina23
> > every saint has a past
> > every sinner has a future
> >
> > Email services provided by the System Access Mobile Network.  Visit
> > www.serotek.com to learn more about accessibility anywhere.
> >
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-- 
Sharonda Greenlaw
President (Phoenix Chapter)
National Federation of the Blind
-------------
Come, read and take a journey with me at
www.WorldOfShariG.blogspot.com



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