[nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

Sat Aug 29 15:21:33 UTC 2009

I have to agree with all of this.  Although I have heard of such a thing as
a guide dog guiding only by a leash, Lexia is trained to guide with a
harness.  Unless I am actually going to be using her in harness, I do not
expect her to be allowed to go with me. 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:22 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

Cindy,

Marion is correct, legally no harness is required to gain public access.  It
is the training that makes a service dog, not the equipment.

The ADA doesn't distinguish the different types of service dogs...service
dogs for people in wheelchairs, hearing alert dogs etc. The ADA defines a
service animal as any specially trained animal whose trained behavior
mitigates the disability of it's handler.  A guide dog is one type of
service animal as defined in the ADA.

A hearing alert dog doesn't need any sort of special equipment to do it's 
job.    The equipment needs of different types of service dogs  vary quite a

bit and even with the same type of service dog the equipment still varies
with the specific needs of the handler.

All that said, I still have ethical issues with taking a guide dog into
public places with no harness and not using the dog as a guide.

JMHO
Julie

From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

>I don't see how the harness cannot be required. If what you are saying 
>is  true, then anybody can march into anywhere without a harness. You 
>could  have  a well behaved dog, or an under achieer for a service dog, 
>and who would  know the difference? I don't mean to be argumentative 
>because you may well  know more about this than do I, but that seems 
>like it wouldn't make  sense.
> No school ever told me that I had to have a harness on either; and TSE  
>encourages taking the thing off when you are on the plane, especially 
>with  young dogs. I leave mine on because it seems so cramped to get it 
>back on,  specially when the flights I have are so close together.
>
> Cindy Lou
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:09 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>
>
> Angie,
>    Do you know which airlines have such a policy? Although an airline 
> may make such a policy, there is no such requirement in law. If I 
> chose to travel with my dog out of harness using my white cane, the 
> airline could not deny me access. The harness does not make a service 
> dog; its training does.
> Some service animals do not wear harnesses and their owners still have 
> the right of access with their dogs
>    Everyone needs to be aware that, even though the schools tell us 
> otherwise, we are not required to have our dogs in harness in order to 
> be afforded the right of access with them. There is nothing in the 
> Federal law requiring a service animal be harnessed. In spite of the 
> fact that some state laws require this, such laws are unenforceable.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:31 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Quick-release handles: was Air Charters and the extra 
> seat
>
>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> This kind of experience is one reason I hope The Seeing Eye will 
>> consider ways to provide us with quick-release handles. If we can 
>> simply remove the harness handle, it will easily fit in the space 
>> between a window seat and the inside wall of the plane. This will 
>> allow both the human and dog to enjoy more room while they fly, while 
>> reducing the chances that a flight attendant would seek to remove the 
>> harness from the dog's owner.
>>
>> Also, some airline policies state that the dog must remain in harness 
>> at all times. If we had a quick-release handle, we could comply with 
>> such policies while gaining a bit more leg/dog room.
>>
>> I don't know how you feel about quick-release handles, but if you 
>> agree with me, I hope you will consider relating this experience to 
>> someone at Seeing Eye as a reason to consider quick-release handles.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf Of Wayne Merritt
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:15 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Air Charters and the extra seat
>>
>> I think he's referring to a part of airline history in the eighties 
>> where the airlines tried to take or in some cases took canes away 
>> from blind people, claiming that they were dangerous and could fly up 
>> and hit someone if something were to happen to the plane. Though I 
>> missed this part of airline history in my travels, I've still been 
>> asked a few times by flight attendants to give up my cane. I even 
>> explained to one persont that the cane was securely between my window 
>> seat and the inside wall of the plane; in other words, it wasn't going
anywhere.
>> I'm sad to say that I have been pushed into giving up my cane, with 
>> the flight attendant in question assuring me that she would put my 
>> cane in the closet at the front of the plane during the flight, but 
>> this has happened a very few times, thankfully.
>>
>> I did have one similar experience in my recent Florida travels, when 
>> they were trying to acccommodate my seating arrangement on one of 
>> those smaller express jets, where I had to give up my dog's harness. 
>> I chose not to make an issue of it since I was able to get a seat 
>> with potentially more room in the first class area, though we are 
>> still talking of those smaller jets. I was reminded of of the 
>> incidents of giving up canes though and wondered if giving up a 
>> harness was similar. Sadly, it does sound familiar to me. I was able 
>> to get the harness back when leaving the plane, but I still felt like 
>> something was violated by having to give up the harness. I tried to 
>> show the flight attendant that it was secure against the wall of the 
>> plane, but no dice. Thoughts?
>>
>> Hth,
>> Wayne
>>
>>
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