[nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

Angie Matney angie.matney at gmail.com
Sat Aug 29 15:46:02 UTC 2009


This is all true. But we are talking about the ACAA, not the ADA, as far as
airlines are concerned. State laws are irrelevant also. I have to admit that
I am not as familiar with the ACAA, so I don't know if it contains the same
provisions. Even if an airline cannot legally require a service animal to
wear whatever equipment is necessary for it to do its job, I think that a
quick-release handle could provide handlers with a quick, easy way to make
things more comfortable for the dog (and the human) without causing the
problems that sometimes occur with airline staff when the entire harness is
removed.

Angie





-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Julie J
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 10:22 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness

Cindy,

Marion is correct, legally no harness is required to gain public access.  It

is the training that makes a service dog, not the equipment.

The ADA doesn't distinguish the different types of service dogs...service 
dogs for people in wheelchairs, hearing alert dogs etc. The ADA defines a 
service animal as any specially trained animal whose trained behavior 
mitigates the disability of it's handler.  A guide dog is one type of 
service animal as defined in the ADA.

A hearing alert dog doesn't need any sort of special equipment to do it's 
job.    The equipment needs of different types of service dogs  vary quite a

bit and even with the same type of service dog the equipment still varies 
with the specific needs of the handler.

All that said, I still have ethical issues with taking a guide dog into 
public places with no harness and not using the dog as a guide.

JMHO
Julie


From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness


>I don't see how the harness cannot be required. If what you are saying is
> true, then anybody can march into anywhere without a harness. You could 
> have
> a well behaved dog, or an under achieer for a service dog, and who would
> know the difference? I don't mean to be argumentative because you may well
> know more about this than do I, but that seems like it wouldn't make 
> sense.
> No school ever told me that I had to have a harness on either; and TSE
> encourages taking the thing off when you are on the plane, especially with
> young dogs. I leave mine on because it seems so cramped to get it back on,
> specially when the flights I have are so close together.
>
> Cindy Lou
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 7:09 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>
>
> Angie,
>    Do you know which airlines have such a policy? Although an airline may
> make such a policy, there is no such requirement in law. If I chose to
> travel with my dog out of harness using my white cane, the airline could 
> not
> deny me access. The harness does not make a service dog; its training 
> does.
> Some service animals do not wear harnesses and their owners still have the
> right of access with their dogs
>    Everyone needs to be aware that, even though the schools tell us
> otherwise, we are not required to have our dogs in harness in order to be
> afforded the right of access with them. There is nothing in the Federal 
> law
> requiring a service animal be harnessed. In spite of the fact that some
> state laws require this, such laws are unenforceable.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, August 29, 2009 1:31 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Quick-release handles: was Air Charters and the extra 
> seat
>
>
>> Wayne,
>>
>> This kind of experience is one reason I hope The Seeing Eye will consider
>> ways to provide us with quick-release handles. If we can simply remove 
>> the
>> harness handle, it will easily fit in the space between a window seat and
>> the inside wall of the plane. This will allow both the human and dog to
>> enjoy more room while they fly, while reducing the chances that a flight
>> attendant would seek to remove the harness from the dog's owner.
>>
>> Also, some airline policies state that the dog must remain in harness at
>> all
>> times. If we had a quick-release handle, we could comply with such
>> policies
>> while gaining a bit more leg/dog room.
>>
>> I don't know how you feel about quick-release handles, but if you agree
>> with
>> me, I hope you will consider relating this experience to someone at 
>> Seeing
>> Eye as a reason to consider quick-release handles.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Wayne Merritt
>> Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 11:15 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Air Charters and the extra seat
>>
>> I think he's referring to a part of airline history in the eighties
>> where the airlines tried to take or in some cases took canes away from
>> blind people, claiming that they were dangerous and could fly up and
>> hit someone if something were to happen to the plane. Though I missed
>> this part of airline history in my travels, I've still been asked a
>> few times by flight attendants to give up my cane. I even explained to
>> one persont that the cane was securely between my window seat and the
>> inside wall of the plane; in other words, it wasn't going anywhere.
>> I'm sad to say that I have been pushed into giving up my cane, with
>> the flight attendant in question assuring me that she would put my
>> cane in the closet at the front of the plane during the flight, but
>> this has happened a very few times, thankfully.
>>
>> I did have one similar experience in my recent Florida travels, when
>> they were trying to acccommodate my seating arrangement on one of
>> those smaller express jets, where I had to give up my dog's harness. I
>> chose not to make an issue of it since I was able to get a seat with
>> potentially more room in the first class area, though we are still
>> talking of those smaller jets. I was reminded of of the incidents of
>> giving up canes though and wondered if giving up a harness was
>> similar. Sadly, it does sound familiar to me. I was able to get the
>> harness back when leaving the plane, but I still felt like something
>> was violated by having to give up the harness. I tried to show the
>> flight attendant that it was secure against the wall of the plane, but
>> no dice. Thoughts?
>>
>> Hth,
>> Wayne
>>
>>
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