[nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

JULIE PHILLIPSON jbrew48 at verizon.net
Tue Dec 1 00:15:56 UTC 2009


Albert I hope you are willing to joint in this effort that we have been 
doing for the last 80 plus years in this country.

Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story


> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our community on
> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the blind 
> rather
> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of the
> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in place to
> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life with a
> specific challenge or two.  Education for both the sighted and the blind
> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If there are
> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we could
> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on 
> accessibility,
> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the manner with
> which we see things as blind people.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
>
> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies or Pit
> Bulls.  They are not all that common, but if it works for that individual,
> why not?
>
> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit fraud by
> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws.  There's loads 
> of
>
> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no clue 
> about
> their rights under the law.  Likewise there's fraudulent people who know 
> the
>
> law quite well.
>
> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake" ones?
> Not all service animals do the same tasks.  Even within service animals of
> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of 
> variables.
>
> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination between the
> real ones and the fake ones?  How do you ensure personal privacy during 
> this
>
> process?  How does this work when traveling between 
> states/counties/cities?
> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will behave
> appropriately the next week, the next year,  or in situations different 
> from
>
> those in the test?  Who pays for all of this?  How will it not be a burden
> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training program?
>
> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals  in some 
> way,
>
> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions that 
> would
> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.
>
> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where you
>>think
>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me that this
>> is
>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead.  As you said
>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and educated
>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we should
>> hope,
>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream parlor we
>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be denied
>> access
>> anywhere we travel.  Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not know
>> the
>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their pet
>> accompany them where our service animals do.  How would you suggest
>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies and or 
>> pit
>> bulls as service animals? .
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Albert,
>>    The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause for
>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag. If I
>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such a tag,
>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more restrictions upon
>> me
>>
>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel in the
>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no documentation
>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction upon
>> me,
>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law. Even if
>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a
>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of creating
>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to protect
>>> our
>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was most
>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get over on
>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please.  A service
>>> animal
>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a service
>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from charlatans and
>>> does
>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the big deal?
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Hi Ann,
>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are 
>>> mandatory -
>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent service
>>> animals.
>>>
>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced.  I know many guide dog users
>>> who
>>>
>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing them
>>> several
>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was wearing
>>> only
>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a service dog -
>>> that's the only reason I got it.
>>>
>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that these tags
>>> were
>>>
>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said.  I could very easily find
>>> out
>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane 
>>> Society
>>> twice a month!
>>>
>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate problem with
>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume in
>>> other
>>> locales as well.  When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER approached
>>> the
>>> San Diego guide dog using residents.  All they needed to do is call up
>>> the
>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to find us.
>>>
>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the writer 
>>> of
>>> the story and find out more.  I've just been quite busy with other
>>> pressing
>>> things.
>>>
>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal and I
>>> don't
>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,
>>> unsocialized
>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.
>>>
>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause
>>> problems.
>>
>>> I
>>>
>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who were very
>>> well
>>>
>>> behaved and socialized.  the dogs were suited for the work. I even had
>>> one
>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon who
>>> tried
>>> to misbehave! (grin!)  I told these people that I appreciated that they
>>> had
>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these.  It is unfortunate that some
>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it is a
>>> pet
>>> or a service dog.
>>>
>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible 
>>> owners,
>>> I
>>> think the bans on dogs would go away.  But, you know how it is - people
>>> lump
>>>
>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things.  I wish
>>> that
>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.
>>>
>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
>>>
>>> Linda and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, Linda,
>>>>
>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to amaze 
>>>> me!
>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service animals
>>>> is
>>>
>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies, and
>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?
>>>>
>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by
>>>> California
>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly tells
>>>> the
>>>
>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the exact
>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told
>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special tag,
>>>> which
>>>
>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form."
>>>> Who
>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she has 
>>>> the
>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public place on
>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her disability,
>>>> or
>>>
>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement officer
>>>> to
>>>
>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog be
>>>> wearing
>>>
>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal shelter 
>>>> in
>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?
>>>>
>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by guide dog
>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA, that
>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt. Dan
>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact opposite?
>>>> Perhaps
>>>
>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a debate
>>>> on
>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities accompanied 
>>>> by
>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some other
>>>> representative of the disability community.  And perhaps they should
>>>> also
>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who has
>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit bull in
>>>> the
>>>> debate as well.
>>>>
>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Ann
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on San
>>>>> Diego's
>>>
>>>>> KGTV Channel 10.  It was a good piece and I wanted to share it with
>>>>> you.
>>>>>
>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT required to
>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places.  Some of us have them
>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining factor 
>>>>> in
>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know that the
>>>>> dog
>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service dog.
>>>>>
>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story all the
>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service dog"
>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several
>>>>> passengers!
>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this.  He was probably afraid of 
>>>>> being
>>>>> sued under ADA.
>>>>>
>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and in 
>>>>> public
>>>>> buildings.  It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this
>>>>> menacing
>>>>> dog near you!
>>>>>
>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>
>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere
>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing to break
>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they go.
>>>>> 10News
>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine companion
>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are truly
>>>>> disabled.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical service dog
>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one, but when
>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble getting into
>>>>> North County restaurants.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate service 
>>>>> dog.
>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in public,"
>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store or a
>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and growl and
>>>>> snap
>>>
>>>>> at my dog."
>>>>>
>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot more
>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are trying 
>>>>> to
>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.
>>>>>
>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told 10News 
>>>>> that
>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which can be
>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form. The only
>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on the
>>>>> answers.
>>>>>
>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag the only
>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to perform a
>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what they're 
>>>>> saying
>>>>> is true.
>>>>>
>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us," DeSousa 
>>>>> said,
>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their word."
>>>>>
>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog tags --
>>>>> 43 --  to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags, beating
>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls, and
>>>>> pugs.
>>>>>
>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their dog
>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores, 
>>>>> restaurants
>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.
>>>>>
>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I guess,"
>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it hurts
>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."
>>>>>
>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable by six
>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's Department
>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.
>>>>>
>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a con.
>>>>>
>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the rules
>>>>> for
>>>
>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude
>>>>> reptiles,
>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final
>>>>> decision
>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.
>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This material may
>>>>> not
>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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