[nagdu] NFB vs. private activism WAS RE: Fake service dogs news story

Thu Dec 3 20:30:15 UTC 2009

To all:  Ramble warning!  /grin/  I mention my guide dog a couple of times,
so it's not entirely OT.  I decided to go ahead and send to the list, since
it seems I have a sort of middle ground experience and opinion on this
thread.  Anyway, I hope my storytelling and rambling will be helpful to
someone somehow.  /grin/  I'm still learning, too, so I don't always have
the ability to put what I'm learning from my experiences and stories into a
nice concise statement.  This is a great topic, though, and I am really
enjoying hearing so many intelligent thoughts on these facets of blindness
and guide dog use!

Albert,

Well, I do hear where you're coming from.  Because I have had to put all my
time and attention toward recovering from my VR experience and still lack
the tools to earn good income while I do so, I've had to put off my own
drive towards activism until I have my feet under me again.  But, oh, do I
want to crusade!

I'm currently working with the NFB here to approach that system again,
hopefully with different results because of their involvement.  We'll see.
The administrators are truly recalcitrant, and will do everything in their
power to avoid giving me a stinkin' thing.  They do not appreciate having
the bad behavior of their staff brought to their attention; they especially
don't like people who express the opinion they should do something about
this!  Well, since I had been at the time 7 years without significant VR
services and had had to put my business on hiatus and ask my very good
existing clients to please look elsewhere, then gotten into a good place in
corporate IT where I could begin to build a real career there with a global
company and was in the process of losing that opportunity because I could
not do the work, I decided it wouldn't hurt to push back.  My career
progress has resulted from my ability to work with and impress -- even when
I was young and stupid, which I still don't get! -- top executives with my
ability to do a "man's job" (back then) and take the heat of being a woman
in that role.  So I've experienced all sorts of snottiness.  Also, I always
end up being the one thrown in to deal with angry clients or customers
because no one else can sort things out...  So have lots of good examples
there, too, although I haven't drawn upon the most memorable of those.
/grin/

Anyway, I believe that I was truly rationally firm, although I did try some
more emotionally charged and, er, assertive techniques just to see what
happened.  And I felt free to express myself to them as someone with PTSD,
because that was a consequence of their bad behavior.  When it became clear
that the people "in charge" just did not want to be bothered, I did start
using words like "negligence," "assault," "lie" ...  To the VR director,
whose behavior became quite interesting at that point.  Well, I had assumed
it was a top down problem, and she showed me very clearly where a good part
of it came from.  So I talked to her boss...  Ah.  Yup.  It explained a lot.
They keep reminding me that they can close my case and deny me services
altogether because I am so "confrontational" and...  Huh.  I can't remember
the other word the VR director always likes to pull out at that point.
Which is when I suddenly notice that I am resting back into my seat whith my
legs casually crossed and my hands laced comfortably across my abdomen, with
my over-sensitive poodle guide resting quietly beside me, while said VR
director is about to come across her oversized executive desk at me, fists
clenched, muscles bunched, radiating malice and intimidation from her very
pores!  It's quite an act, I tell you.  So I smile and say, "Well, you
certainly have that choice.  Just be sure to send me notice in writing."  In
the same calm tone I've been using.  /lol/  Her behavior then becomes
downright extraordinary.  I get the mpression that initimidation thing she
does is very effective with her underlings, even when she's not using it on
some pathetic, useless  blind whiner like me.  Well, if they won't close my
case properly, I can use every step of progress I make towards renewing my
career to once again annoy them with my unreasonable requests for VR
services that will actually mitigate barriers to employment and stuff.  I
just don't know what's wrong with me.  /grin/  It's a petty game at this
point, but I'm getting some really good documentation.

Okay, so I'm working with the NFB, and I have some plans for some private
crusading, as well.  I've just got to get myself on a sustainable footing
first, but I'm almost there.  I've had a lot of time to work out a strategy,
and I think I can get something done.  We'll see, won't we?

Anyway, so I'm just giving some background to lead up to what I have learned
about the role of the NFB and where it fits in with personal, private
activism.  I've been losing my vision progressively since birth, and under
one definition of blindness could almost claim to be a lifer.  That's the
definition that says you're blind if you're using adaptive techniques to
compensate for vision loss.  Somebody said something on this list that has
me looking back over the years since 1967, when I found out I would be
"goind blind" from RP to try to figure out if I self-identified as blind, or
as going blind, or what.  My family went in to such extreme denial that I
didn't need to do it myself, although I'm sure I've engaged in more than I
thought I did.  /smile/

So I've been paying attention to the work the NFB and others have been
doing, noticing the legislation, watching the growth of adaptive tech, etc.,
knowing that I would benefit from their work.  I wasn't closely involved,
bu;t I did notice.

When I started getting involved with the NFB here in Oregon, I got to meet a
lot of honest-to-goodness lifers of my generation or the ones before.  OMG!
I was, at first, put off by something about them, and it took me awhile to
figure out why.  I could still see body language somewhat back then, and
even expressions.  My discomfort was because the way they sat and interacted
with what was going on around them was so different, so still and passive.
Had I been a total, I would never have known they were there.  So I started
talking to them, and they would tell me their stories.

If you doubt how far we've come, try it!  As a newbie blind in most
respects, I was really shocked to hear about how people who were clearly
identified as blind -- either total or low partial -- spent their
chlidhoods.  I realized that for these people to get out the door and go
anywhere on their own, or even to possess a white cane, was a really, really
big deal.  It must have taken them incredible courage to overcome their past
conditioning to just go somewhere.  This is not quite as extreme for people
in my own age group (okay, I'm pushing 50), but the lifers have had to
really fight to get what I take for granted -- while expecting more, because
I deny the lack of equality in a big way!

Meanwhile, I was watching a trio of kids run around like kids do.  They were
laughing and playing and running around the tables and people and canes and
guide dogs with all the freedom and joy kids that age do once the meeting is
over and they can expel their boredom and pent up energy.  The gaps in my
vision made it difficult to be sure that I was seeing that tiny white cane
flying along in front of one of them.  I had taken my 19-month-old GDIT
there to give her some exposure, and neither of us knew what to think when
that tiny white cane came flying our way with it's trail of wild children.
I think I saw them all jump over a guide dog, but I'm not sure.  I was
talking to the oldsters while watching the kids and getting my mind bent by
the contrast.  /smile/  I do remember looking at Mitzi, while she looked at
me.  She was having a bit of a mind-bender, too, it seemed.  /grin/

I've also had the pleasure of getting to know some young adult lifers, and
they are so different from the older generations.  Wow!  They make it all
look so easy, and they expect to accomplish the same things their sighted
peers do -- and expect themselves to do better if they have the capacity,
say in scholastics or music or whatever.  It is so cool!  It's not until you
get to know them that you learn they've had quite a few struggles to get
where they are; but not like the generations who came before.  And a lot of
my friends these days are deafblind!  Or, to be more accurate, accomplished
high-achievers who also happen to be deafblind.  They do the same things I'm
learning to do with only blindness to contend with.  Wow!  And they can do
that because society allows them to.  That, my friend, is progress!

So that's really consolidated my view of the NFB and it's role in my life
and the possibilities I have as a blind woman.  I can expect to be treated
with respect and equality; I can make use of the technology that will enable
me to continue my career and extracurricular work; I can go out and about
meeting and greeting people who enrich my life experience.  All because of
the united efforts of those who have gone before!  I take it for granted,
and become extremely angry when my rights and privileges as a person are
threatened or violated because I just happen to be blind!  All because of
the work of the NFB.

Okay, so the technology is out of reach.  I wasn't able to save up that much
money by the time I needed that tech, for one reason and another.  Sigh.
Shoulda ditched the ex sooner, really, but one made a commitment, so one
tries.  Anyway, the tech issues you mention resonate really strongly with
me.  The fact that the prices are so exorbitant and that currently so many
state agencies have decided all we need is "confidence" in ourselves, not
technology or access to reading, to live full and productive lives is
appalling.  Under the economic conditions, donations to guide dog programs
have fallen off -- even before the "uncrash" of the economic bubble that
"nobody could have seen coming" except for me and most of the people I know,
of course.  Sorry.  I just had to put that in.  /evil grin/  Making that
technology more readily available is a pet project of mine -- another one
put off for when I reover from my journey through the state VR system!
Sigh.  That recovery may be slowed, because this month I simply cannot
afford treatments, no matter what I do.  If I could only get back to work...
Only there are no jobs of any sort.  But that's another matter.  I can make
enough to get well right quick with 10 hours of work as a freelancer in my
field of expertise, and still start some savings for emergency vet bills and
the like, but I don't have the technology!  And I'm not yet quite well
enough to work 40 hours a week to make the same amount.That's my story, but
it is frighteningly representative for so many disabled people these days!

Okay, now I'm just starting to rant.  /smile/  My point is, I suppose, that
while we still do have a long way to go, we have also come very, very far in
a pretty short time.  We need to continue to work together, and we each need
to do our part as individuals -- whatever that part is.  As so many others
have said, I have learned that sometimes just going around "being" blind is
a good way to educate others.  They may be quite enlightened philosophically
and politically, but I end up having some great conversations with such
people because the light bulb just switched on and their abstract beliefs
and assumptions are suddenly real!  It's great!  The conversations with
those who have never thought about it or who have more negative attitudes
are not so much fun, but I think I learn something, too.  I just end up
feeling tired and world weary afterwards.  Then I play soccer with my poodle
and stop worrying about it all.  /grin/

I've learned at lot, too, from the one national NFB convention I've been
able to attend.  I'm a bit of a people watcher (or listener, whichever
works), and I loved seeing the whole range of independent blind people.
Even when I was jumping over their canes or shielding my too-young dog from
them, because she was more over her head than I was.  Poor kid.  I could
have strangled her a few times, but then I would remember that it was my
fault for bringing her there and thinking we would deal with it all just
fine.  I got to do a lot of meet and greet and people watching just keeping
her out of the way of it all so I could get her calmed down enough to not be
a monster.  Sigh.  I was told by a poodle guide user, sans dog, that mine
was the only poodle guide at convention because all the other poodle guide
users know better than to bring them.  Like I say...  Live and learn.

But I got a good education from all the people I talked to -- and heard the
stories of.  My mind still reels sometimes.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:37 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

Well again I will put the question to you, how has that been working for

you?  Not to good in my estimation. So lets agree to disagree, find common

ground where there is some and have interesting dialogues where and when

appropriate. I do not consider myself a crusader but a man who does not and

will not be looked at through glasses of marginalization   and

disenfranchisement. So Margo, while you feel that the nfb might be doing

what I will be doing, there is always room for more then one messenger.  I

would not have thought that I would have been asked to stop what I was doing

and join the fold here on this chat. So if that is what you are about please

know that I respectfully  do not want to stop what I am doing, as I do not

and have not ever seen or heard the manner with which I am delivering the

message I have to share, either as a sighted or blind educator.. Peace.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.

CEO/Founder

My Blind Spot, Inc.

90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.

New York, New York  10004

www.myblindspot.org

PH: 917-553-0347

Fax: 212-858-5759

"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is

doing it."

-----Original Message-----

From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf

Of Margo and Arrow

Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:13 AM

To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users

Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

Albert, with all due respect, I appreciate your willingness to move the 

message.  We in the NFB have been moving the message for a long time.  the 

National Federation of the Blind is already doing these things.  Again, I'd 

urge you to spend some time researching what we have accomplished and what 

we are in the process of accomplishing and work with us.  We are the blind 

speaking for ourselves and we don't need a message mover.  We do, however, 

need people who will work in a team effort to get things done.  We don't 

need a crusader; we need a team layer.

Margo and Arrow

----- Original Message ----- 

From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>

To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 

<nagdu at nfbnet.org>

Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

> Well then you have much to offer and teach me as I try to move the message

> out from our individual experiences and hopefully exponentially.  Guides 

> are

> just one part of the message, we need to inform and educate all people of

> all visual acuities  on technologies, legislations, Braille, how our

> students are not being prepared or considered as integral parts of the 

> whole

> of society, we need to educate our peers on their rights, and how best to

> self advocate while working to dispel antiquated beliefs about our 

> abilities

> and to address the innate fear that everyone  has about vision loss. It is

> a

> tall order, but I am a tall man with broad shoulders.

>

>

> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.

> CEO/Founder

> My Blind Spot, Inc.

> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.

> New York, New York  10004

> www.myblindspot.org

> PH: 917-553-0347

> Fax: 212-858-5759

> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is

> doing it."

>

>

> -----Original Message-----

> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf

> Of Margo and Arrow

> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 8:11 AM

> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users

> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>

> albert, we've been educating for a long time via talk and action.  We must

> continue to do that.  We have been educating and acting on things since 

> the

> first dog guide entered this country and we won't stop.  We have been

> mobilizing and such.

>

> Margo and Arrow

> ----- Original Message ----- 

> From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net>

> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"

> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:15 PM

> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>

>

>> Albert I hope you are willing to joint in this effort that we have been

>> doing for the last 80 plus years in this country.

>>

>> Julie Phillipson

>> ----- Original Message ----- 

>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>

>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"

>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:14 AM

>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>

>>

>>> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our community

>>> on

>>> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the blind

>>> rather

>>> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of the

>>> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in place to

>>> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life with a

>>> specific challenge or two.  Education for both the sighted and the blind

>>> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If there 

>>> are

>>> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we could

>>> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on

>>> accessibility,

>>> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the manner

>>> with

>>> which we see things as blind people.

>>>

>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.

>>> CEO/Founder

>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.

>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.

>>> New York, New York  10004

>>> www.myblindspot.org

>>> PH: 917-553-0347

>>> Fax: 212-858-5759

>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who

>>> is

>>> doing it."

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> -----Original Message-----

>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

>>> Behalf

>>> Of Julie J

>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM

>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users

>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>>

>>> Albert,

>>>

>>> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies or Pit

>>> Bulls.  They are not all that common, but if it works for that

>>> individual,

>>> why not?

>>>

>>> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit fraud by

>>> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws.  There's 

>>> loads

>>> of

>>>

>>> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no clue

>>> about

>>> their rights under the law.  Likewise there's fraudulent people who know

>>> the

>>>

>>> law quite well.

>>>

>>> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake" ones?

>>> Not all service animals do the same tasks.  Even within service animals

>>> of

>>> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of

>>> variables.

>>>

>>> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination between the

>>> real ones and the fake ones?  How do you ensure personal privacy during

>>> this

>>>

>>> process?  How does this work when traveling between

>>> states/counties/cities?

>>> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will behave

>>> appropriately the next week, the next year,  or in situations different

>>> from

>>>

>>> those in the test?  Who pays for all of this?  How will it not be a

>>> burden

>>> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training

>>> program?

>>>

>>> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals  in some

>>> way,

>>>

>>> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions that

>>> would

>>> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.

>>>

>>> I'd love to hear your thoughts.

>>> Julie

>>>

>>> ----- Original Message ----- 

>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>

>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"

>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM

>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>>

>>>

>>>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where you

>>>>think

>>>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me that

>>>> this

>>>> is

>>>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead.  As you

>>>> said

>>>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and educated

>>>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we should

>>>> hope,

>>>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream parlor

>>>> we

>>>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be denied

>>>> access

>>>> anywhere we travel.  Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not know

>>>> the

>>>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their pet

>>>> accompany them where our service animals do.  How would you suggest

>>>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies and or

>>>> pit

>>>> bulls as service animals? .

>>>>

>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.

>>>> CEO/Founder

>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.

>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.

>>>> New York, New York  10004

>>>> www.myblindspot.org

>>>> PH: 917-553-0347

>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759

>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who

>>>> is

>>>> doing it."

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

>>>> Behalf

>>>> Of Marion & Martin

>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM

>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users

>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>>>

>>>> Albert,

>>>>    The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause for

>>>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag. If I

>>>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such a

>>>> tag,

>>>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more restrictions

>>>> upon

>>>> me

>>>>

>>>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel in 

>>>> the

>>>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no documentation

>>>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction upon

>>>> me,

>>>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law. Even

>>>> if

>>>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a

>>>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of creating

>>>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.

>>>>

>>>> Fraternally yours,

>>>> Marion

>>>>

>>>>

>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 

>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>

>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"

>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM

>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>>>

>>>>

>>>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to protect

>>>>> our

>>>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was most

>>>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get over on

>>>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please.  A service

>>>>> animal

>>>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a

>>>>> service

>>>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from charlatans 

>>>>> and

>>>>> does

>>>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the big

>>>>> deal?

>>>>>

>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.

>>>>> CEO/Founder

>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.

>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.

>>>>> New York, New York  10004

>>>>> www.myblindspot.org

>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347

>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759

>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 

>>>>> who

>>>>> is

>>>>> doing it."

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> -----Original Message-----

>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On

>>>>> Behalf

>>>>> Of Linda Gwizdak

>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM

>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users

>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>>>>

>>>>> Hi Ann,

>>>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are

>>>>> mandatory -

>>>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent service

>>>>> animals.

>>>>>

>>>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced.  I know many guide dog

>>>>> users

>>>>> who

>>>>>

>>>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing them

>>>>> several

>>>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was wearing

>>>>> only

>>>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a service

>>>>> dog -

>>>>> that's the only reason I got it.

>>>>>

>>>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that these 

>>>>> tags

>>>>> were

>>>>>

>>>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said.  I could very easily 

>>>>> find

>>>>> out

>>>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane

>>>>> Society

>>>>> twice a month!

>>>>>

>>>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate problem

>>>>> with

>>>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume in

>>>>> other

>>>>> locales as well.  When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER approached

>>>>> the

>>>>> San Diego guide dog using residents.  All they needed to do is call up

>>>>> the

>>>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to find

>>>>> us.

>>>>>

>>>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the writer

>>>>> of

>>>>> the story and find out more.  I've just been quite busy with other

>>>>> pressing

>>>>> things.

>>>>>

>>>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal and I

>>>>> don't

>>>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,

>>>>> unsocialized

>>>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.

>>>>>

>>>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause

>>>>> problems.

>>>>

>>>>> I

>>>>>

>>>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who were 

>>>>> very

>>>>> well

>>>>>

>>>>> behaved and socialized.  the dogs were suited for the work. I even had

>>>>> one

>>>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon who

>>>>> tried

>>>>> to misbehave! (grin!)  I told these people that I appreciated that 

>>>>> they

>>>>> had

>>>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these.  It is unfortunate that

>>>>> some

>>>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it is a

>>>>> pet

>>>>> or a service dog.

>>>>>

>>>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible

>>>>> owners,

>>>>> I

>>>>> think the bans on dogs would go away.  But, you know how it is - 

>>>>> people

>>>>> lump

>>>>>

>>>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things.  I wish

>>>>> that

>>>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.

>>>>>

>>>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

>>>>>

>>>>> Linda and Landon

>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 

>>>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>

>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"

>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM

>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>>> Hi, Linda,

>>>>>>

>>>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to amaze

>>>>>> me!

>>>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service

>>>>>> animals

>>>>>> is

>>>>>

>>>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies, and

>>>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by

>>>>>> California

>>>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly 

>>>>>> tells

>>>>>> the

>>>>>

>>>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the exact

>>>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter 

>>>>>> told

>>>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special tag,

>>>>>> which

>>>>>

>>>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form."

>>>>>> Who

>>>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she has

>>>>>> the

>>>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public place 

>>>>>> on

>>>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her

>>>>>> disability,

>>>>>> or

>>>>>

>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement

>>>>>> officer

>>>>>> to

>>>>>

>>>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog be

>>>>>> wearing

>>>>>

>>>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal shelter

>>>>>> in

>>>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?

>>>>>>

>>>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by guide 

>>>>>> dog

>>>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA, that

>>>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt. Dan

>>>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact opposite?

>>>>>> Perhaps

>>>>>

>>>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a 

>>>>>> debate

>>>>>> on

>>>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities accompanied

>>>>>> by

>>>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some other

>>>>>> representative of the disability community.  And perhaps they should

>>>>>> also

>>>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who has

>>>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit bull in

>>>>>> the

>>>>>> debate as well.

>>>>>>

>>>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!

>>>>>>

>>>>>> Best,

>>>>>> Ann

>>>>>>

>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 

>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>

>>>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog

>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>

>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM

>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Hi All,

>>>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on San

>>>>>>> Diego's

>>>>>

>>>>>>> KGTV Channel 10.  It was a good piece and I wanted to share it with

>>>>>>> you.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT required

>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places.  Some of us have

>>>>>>> them

>>>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining factor

>>>>>>> in

>>>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know that the

>>>>>>> dog

>>>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service dog.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story all

>>>>>>> the

>>>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service dog"

>>>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several

>>>>>>> passengers!

>>>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this.  He was probably afraid of

>>>>>>> being

>>>>>>> sued under ADA.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and in

>>>>>>> public

>>>>>>> buildings.  It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this

>>>>>>> menacing

>>>>>>> dog near you!

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Linda and Landon

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere

>>>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing to

>>>>>>> break

>>>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they go.

>>>>>>> 10News

>>>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine companion

>>>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are truly

>>>>>>> disabled.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical service

>>>>>>> dog

>>>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one, but

>>>>>>> when

>>>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble getting 

>>>>>>> into

>>>>>>> North County restaurants.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate service

>>>>>>> dog.

>>>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in 

>>>>>>> public,"

>>>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store or a

>>>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and growl and

>>>>>>> snap

>>>>>

>>>>>>> at my dog."

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot more

>>>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are trying

>>>>>>> to

>>>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told 10News

>>>>>>> that

>>>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which can 

>>>>>>> be

>>>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form. The 

>>>>>>> only

>>>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on the

>>>>>>> answers.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag the 

>>>>>>> only

>>>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to perform 

>>>>>>> a

>>>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what they're

>>>>>>> saying

>>>>>>> is true.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us," DeSousa

>>>>>>> said,

>>>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their word."

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog tags --

>>>>>>> 43 --  to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags, beating

>>>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls, and

>>>>>>> pugs.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their dog

>>>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores,

>>>>>>> restaurants

>>>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I

>>>>>>> guess,"

>>>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it hurts

>>>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable by 

>>>>>>> six

>>>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's

>>>>>>> Department

>>>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a con.

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the 

>>>>>>> rules

>>>>>>> for

>>>>>

>>>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude

>>>>>>> reptiles,

>>>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final

>>>>>>> decision

>>>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.

>>>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This material may

>>>>>>> not

>>>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed

>>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>>> nagdu mailing list

>>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org

>>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org

>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info 

>>>>>>> for

>>>>>>> nagdu:

>>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.co

>>>>> m

>>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>>

>>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>>> nagdu mailing list

>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org

>>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org

>>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

>>>>>> nagdu:

>>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>

http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/linda.gwizdak%40cox.n

>>>>> et

>>>>>

>>>>>

>>>>> _______________________________________________

>>>>> nagdu mailing list

>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org

>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org

>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for

>>>>> nagdu:

>>>>>

>>>>

>>>

>