[nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)
REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com
Fri Dec 4 12:55:28 UTC 2009
Yes, because while Albert is correct in that it is about what people
prefer, my contention and I believe it is also the NFB party line is
that children who do not know they can eventually choose when and how to
use differing media formats, are not being taught Braille so they in
effect do not have a choice.
The choice if one wants to use that word is being mad with inaccurate,
information by adults who will never be living with the consequences of
that choice.
I.e., I think spoken output is easier, Braille is something I may have
seen on tv once, or maybe it was sign language, I really don't know, but
in any event, Johnny won't need Braille, and besides, his teacher
doesn't know it, so we're going to say it's okay for him not to learn
and use it".
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 7:25 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
Huh. Good point. Now I'll have to look at the phrasing I use when I'm
talking about it. /smile/
Tami Smith-Kinney
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 9:57 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
Albert,
While we're on the subject, it's *Braille *and* other technologies, not
*or*
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Albert J Rizzi
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:29 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
Well I will be the one who speaks softly and will let others be the one
to
carry the big sticks when all else fails. There is a reason for having
options to look at for sure. but, not affording the option of equal
access
to education for those of us born with congenital blindness is no
longer an
option for the future. I do not want Linda's story to be one that future
blind students tell in one way or another. I want to hear tell of how
they
were able to excel and rise to their goals and personal hopes and
aspirations. Having committed parents is not enough, we need to let
educators know they are falling down on their responsibilities when they
do
not teach a blind student with tools like braille or other technologies
which ensure educational advancement and opportunity
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
doing it."
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
Of JULIE PHILLIPSON
Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:10 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
well put Linda as usual!
Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, November 28, 2009 12:35 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
> Albert,
> Many of us congenital (whole life) blind are showing the same
attitudes
> that
> society has about blindness is because we are still a product of that
> society - crappy attitudes and all! When you are "trained" in
> helplessness
> all your life, that's what you expect. Many parents of blind children
> don't
> know any better. this, however, is much better now than when I was a
baby
> and little kid.
>
> The other problem is mainstreaming of blind kids. The good part is
that
> blind kids are immersed into the general society and not segregated as
in
> the past. the bad part is that these blind kids don't always interact
> with
> other blind kids. they grow up as "the only one" and thus never
develop a
> sense of a "blind community". Without this sense of a blind
community,
> they
> never learn to realize that there are things that are shared
experiences
> and
> how to learn about one's rights and how to work to gain the rights or
to
> keep the ones already won.
>
> You folks, who were sighted and became blind later, have a true sense
of
> life in mainstream society without any stigma of disability or
blindness.
> You grow up with the same opportunities as the rest of society. Upon
> becoming blind, you get the rude awakening of becoming a second class
> citizen and all the negative junk society throws at you. You have a
strong
> desire to regain what you had - you lost more than eyesight when you
went
> blind. We need you!!
>
> Groups like NFB is our vehicle to regain what we as "the blind" have
lost
> or
> never had. That's why we fight for literacy, Braille, and the myriad
of
> technology that will provide us with the means to also be on a level
> playing
> field so that we - as a group - can rejoin the ranks of society.
>
> That would be great if your group could help with the on going
education
> that must be done. But I agree with Julie that yes, education is a
must
> but
> sometimes we need to back it up with a big stick at times! (grin!)
>
> I am glad that the article I sent has generated alot of dialog. I do
> intend
> to stop by the Animal Control to find out the real deal with those
service
> dog tags. I know the ADA is the higher authority than any local
> regulations.
>
> When I got my tag, at no time was I ever told that this was something
> mandatory like that officer said on the news story.
>
> Hope all had a nice Thanksgiving and are now getting ready for the
> upcoming
> holiday season.
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 1:24 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
> Thank you Michael. I would think there is a lot I could learn from
you. I
> went to your site and would so like to be you when I grow up! LOL.
Having
> only been completely blind for just under 4 years I refuse to accept
> others
> misperceptions about blindness. What I did not expect to find was
that
> many of the blind themselves are governed by the same antiquated myths
and
> misperceptions which limit and hinder our inclusion at all levels. I
> would
> appreciate learning more and more about my abilities and what is
> accessible
> to me as I grow into this new and exciting life of mine. Feel free to
> share
> your pearls of wisdom as you see fit. Peace.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Michael Hingson
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 11:43 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
>
> Good for you. Unfortunately, our people as a whole society do
perceive
> being blind as being less than whole. We educate one person at a time
> often
> and more where we can. Welcome to the process. Your voice is
> appreciated.
>
>
> Mike Hingson
>
> The Michael Hingson Group
> "Speaking with Vision"
> Michael Hingson, President
> (415) 827-4084
> info at michaelhingson.com
> www.michaelhingson.com
>
>
> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Albert J Rizzi
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:00 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> well then seems like I have my work cut out for me. I hope My Blind
Spot
> will be that vehicle to educate the masses on both sides of the fence.
It
> is perplexing at times. Do we put the cart before the horse or not?
So
> many
> advancements have been made legislatively, technologically and still
many
> of
> our peers and students coming up the ranks are ignorant to the
leveling
> force of advancements made in the last few decades. Children are still
not
> being taught with Braille or the tools they need to succeed, rehab
centers
> still teach us how to clean and eat rather then how to garner the
skill
> set
> to secure an independent and financially rewarding life. There needs
to
> be
> more education on both sides of the fence, all people can llearn when
> given
> the tools they need to do so, empowered teachers with knowledge and
> conviction and the time to learn and exercise what they learn. We as
a
> people have missed the boat on oh so many advancements that it boggles
the
> mind. I am new to the blind thing and refuse to be looked at as less
then
> or accept being marginalized. I am and continue to be an integral part
of
> the whole of society and invite any and all to help me help others to
> accept
> and empower the blind to greatness.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 10:27 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
>
> I wish it were that simple.
>
> No, I wasn't talking about taking other blind people to court. I was
> talking about law enforcement, businesses, people committing fraud by
> passing pets as service animals and the like. I know very well how
much
> both litigation and education cost in both time and money.
>
> Education is a great thing. I am totally in favor of educating when
it is
> appropriate. It would be great if all disabled people knew what their
> rights are and were able to advocate for themselves. that is
> unfortunately
> not the case. I think most disabled people have a general idea about
> their
> rights, especially if they have been disabled for a while. However
being
> able to advocate for oneself is a much more complicated matter. I
think
> that is a much more difficult skill.
>
> the individual has to be first very well versed in the applicable
laws.
> Second they have to be able to communicate that information in a calm
and
> clear manner. third the person they are speaking to has to be
responsive
> to
>
> listening to a disabled person. Unfortunately all to often blind or
> otherwise disabled people are not viewed as knowledgeable respected
> members
> of the community.
>
> Take Mardi's bus problems as an example. she has been dealing with
that
> for
>
> quite a long time, years. she has talked to the bus drivers. she has
> talked to the other passengers. she has talked to the bus
administration.
> she has filed complaints. she has done everything in her power to
> educate.
> Unfortunately none of those attempts to educate have had much effect.
> Mardi
>
> is very knowledgeable about her rights. she is well spoken and clear
in
> her
>
> communication. So why does the bus company not listen to her? I
think
> the
> answer is two fold. first she is blind and uses a wheelchair. In our
> society she is not viewed as an equal member of the community to be
> respected like other citizens. Not right and not fair, but I believe
> true.
>
> Second the bus company doesn't want to be educated. They have had
ample
> opportunities to learn about service dogs, but refuse to make any
changes.
> This is the category I call "willfully stupid".
>
> I think education is great when it is working, when people are open to
> learning and applying the new information. I also believe that there
is a
> time for setting educational opportunities aside and making people
comply
> with the law through all available means.
>
> JMO
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
>> Hmmmmm... litigation you say? Are you going to take your blind peers
to
>> court for not knowing the laws? How would that work for the common
good?
>> I
>> see it as simple economics 101. as has been stated here in this chat,
>> some
>> blind guide users are not aware of their rights, if we who are
protected
>> by
>> the laws do not understand or use them how then can we presume to
hold
>> others accountable to them when some of us do not exercise our
rights
>> and
>> privileges? I see it as I mentioned above simple economics 101 supply
and
>> demand. If we do not demand what ever it is, access, equality, or
>> understanding then no one will supply it. In order to have the
>> legislative
>> enactments serve the purposes for which they were intended, perhaps
we
>> should conduct seminars much like the one held the other night about
>> hospitals and guide dogs or the ones at Hadley aimed at educating the
>> masses
>> to our rights as afforded by law. Trust me litigation can be costly
and
>> time
>> consuming. But if each of us educates either the blind or the sighted
on
>> these matters you will be pleasantly surprised by how many doors will
>> open.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 8:42 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> The thing about education is that you can't educate people against
their
>> will.
>>
>> If people choose to be willfully stupid there isn't a thing you can
do.
>> It's
>>
>> like that whole "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it
>> drink"
>>
>> thing.
>>
>> I think there is a time and place for education. I also believe that
>> there
>> is a time to set the educational opportunities aside and opt for
>> litigation.
>>
>> JMO
>> Julie
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 27, 2009 7:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>> Here here Michael. It is all about education. If we educate and
inform,
>> try
>> to eradicate ignorance when and where it presents itself, then we
will
>> not
>> have to fight for having our rights acknowledged I hope to be one of
>> those
>> educators in our movement toward affirmation, equality, and access..
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Michael Hingson
>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:21 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Educating is what we are all about. Most of us constantly strive to
>> educate
>> and inform. The teleseminar we conducted concerning guide dogs in
>> hospitals
>> is just the most recent example of this.
>>
>> What is so disappointing is how many members of the law enforcement
do
>> not
>> know the law even though it is usually covered to some extent during
>> their
>> trainings. Guide dogs have been allowed into public facilities and
>> places
>> for many years. I find it unconscionable that today so many either
do
>> not
>> know or choose to ignore the law.
>>
>> Even so, we will continue to educate and inform. We also will fight
when
>> necessary. We also will work to strengthen the law as we can.
>>
>> The Michael Hingson Group
>> "Speaking with Vision"
>> Michael Hingson, President
>> (415) 827-4084
>> info at michaelhingson.com
>> www.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Albert J Rizzi
>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:15 AM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our
community
>> on
>> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the blind
>> rather
>> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of
the
>> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in place
to
>> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life with
a
>> specific challenge or two. Education for both the sighted and the
blind
>> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If there
are
>> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we
could
>> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on
>> accessibility,
>> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the manner
>> with
>> which we see things as blind people.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of Julie J
>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> Albert,
>>
>> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies or
Pit
>> Bulls. They are not all that common, but if it works for that
>> individual,
>> why not?
>>
>> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit fraud
by
>> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws. There's
loads
>> of
>>
>> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no clue
>> about
>> their rights under the law. Likewise there's fraudulent people who
know
>> the
>>
>> law quite well.
>>
>> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake"
ones?
>> Not all service animals do the same tasks. Even within service
animals
>> of
>> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of
>> variables.
>>
>> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination between
the
>> real ones and the fake ones? How do you ensure personal privacy
during
>> this
>>
>> process? How does this work when traveling between
>> states/counties/cities?
>> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will
behave
>> appropriately the next week, the next year, or in situations
different
>> from
>>
>> those in the test? Who pays for all of this? How will it not be a
>> burden
>> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training
>> program?
>>
>> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals in
some
>> way,
>>
>> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions that
>> would
>> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.
>>
>> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>> Julie
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where
you
>>>think
>>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me that
>>> this
>>> is
>>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead. As you
>>> said
>>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and
educated
>>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we
should
>>> hope,
>>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream
parlor
>>> we
>>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be
denied
>>> access
>>> anywhere we travel. Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not
know
>>> the
>>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their pet
>>> accompany them where our service animals do. How would you suggest
>>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies and
or
>>> pit
>>> bulls as service animals? .
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Albert,
>>> The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause
for
>>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag. If
I
>>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such a
>>> tag,
>>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more restrictions
>>> upon
>>> me
>>>
>>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel in
the
>>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no
documentation
>>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction
upon
>>> me,
>>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law.
Even
>>> if
>>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a
>>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of creating
>>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to
protect
>>>> our
>>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was
most
>>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get over
on
>>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please. A
service
>>>> animal
>>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a
>>>> service
>>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from charlatans
and
>>>> does
>>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the big
>>>> deal?
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>> Hi Ann,
>>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are
>>>> mandatory -
>>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent service
>>>> animals.
>>>>
>>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced. I know many guide dog
>>>> users
>>>> who
>>>>
>>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing them
>>>> several
>>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was
wearing
>>>> only
>>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a service
>>>> dog -
>>>> that's the only reason I got it.
>>>>
>>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that these
tags
>>>> were
>>>>
>>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said. I could very easily
find
>>>> out
>>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane
>>>> Society
>>>> twice a month!
>>>>
>>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate problem
>>>> with
>>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume
in
>>>> other
>>>> locales as well. When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER
approached
>>>> the
>>>> San Diego guide dog using residents. All they needed to do is call
up
>>>> the
>>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to
find
>>>> us.
>>>>
>>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the
writer
>>>> of
>>>> the story and find out more. I've just been quite busy with other
>>>> pressing
>>>> things.
>>>>
>>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal and
I
>>>> don't
>>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,
>>>> unsocialized
>>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.
>>>>
>>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause
>>>> problems.
>>>
>>>> I
>>>>
>>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who were
very
>>>> well
>>>>
>>>> behaved and socialized. the dogs were suited for the work. I even
had
>>>> one
>>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon
who
>>>> tried
>>>> to misbehave! (grin!) I told these people that I appreciated that
they
>>>> had
>>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these. It is unfortunate that
>>>> some
>>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it
is a
>>>> pet
>>>> or a service dog.
>>>>
>>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible
>>>> owners,
>>>> I
>>>> think the bans on dogs would go away. But, you know how it is -
people
>>>> lump
>>>>
>>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things. I
wish
>>>> that
>>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.
>>>>
>>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
>>>>
>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi, Linda,
>>>>>
>>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to
amaze
>>>>> me!
>>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service
>>>>> animals
>>>>> is
>>>>
>>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies, and
>>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?
>>>>>
>>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by
>>>>> California
>>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly
tells
>>>>> the
>>>>
>>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the exact
>>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter
told
>>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special
tag,
>>>>> which
>>>>
>>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a
form."
>>>>> Who
>>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she
has
>>>>> the
>>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public
place on
>>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her
>>>>> disability,
>>>>> or
>>>>
>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement
>>>>> officer
>>>>> to
>>>>
>>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog be
>>>>> wearing
>>>>
>>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal
shelter
>>>>> in
>>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?
>>>>>
>>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by guide
dog
>>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA, that
>>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt.
Dan
>>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact opposite?
>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>
>>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a
debate
>>>>> on
>>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities
accompanied
>>>>> by
>>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some other
>>>>> representative of the disability community. And perhaps they
should
>>>>> also
>>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who
has
>>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit bull
in
>>>>> the
>>>>> debate as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Ann
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide
Dog
>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on San
>>>>>> Diego's
>>>>
>>>>>> KGTV Channel 10. It was a good piece and I wanted to share it
with
>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT
required
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places. Some of us have
>>>>>> them
>>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining
factor
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know that
the
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service
dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story
all
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service
dog"
>>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several
>>>>>> passengers!
>>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this. He was probably afraid of
>>>>>> being
>>>>>> sued under ADA.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and in
>>>>>> public
>>>>>> buildings. It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this
>>>>>> menacing
>>>>>> dog near you!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere
>>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing to
>>>>>> break
>>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they go.
>>>>>> 10News
>>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine companion
>>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are
truly
>>>>>> disabled.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical
service
>>>>>> dog
>>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one, but
>>>>>> when
>>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble getting
into
>>>>>> North County restaurants.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate
service
>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in
public,"
>>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store
or a
>>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and growl
and
>>>>>> snap
>>>>
>>>>>> at my dog."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot more
>>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are
trying
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told
10News
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which
can be
>>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form. The
only
>>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on
the
>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag the
only
>>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to
perform a
>>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what they're
>>>>>> saying
>>>>>> is true.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us," DeSousa
>>>>>> said,
>>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their
word."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog tags
--
>>>>>> 43 -- to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags,
beating
>>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls,
and
>>>>>> pugs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their
dog
>>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores,
>>>>>> restaurants
>>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I
>>>>>> guess,"
>>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it
hurts
>>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable by
six
>>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's
>>>>>> Department
>>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a
con.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the
rules
>>>>>> for
>>>>
>>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude
>>>>>> reptiles,
>>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final
>>>>>> decision
>>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.
>>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This material
may
>>>>>> not
>>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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