[nagdu] Is "Why?" Important?

Albert J Rizzi albert at myblindspot.org
Fri Dec 4 13:55:26 UTC 2009


LOL I so like the response you gave to your ministers assistant . I am going
to use that one in some way shape or form going forward for sure.  when I
come upon children who ask about the cane or the dog, or if and when I come
upon adults who for one reason or another are living under an old set of
beliefs about blindness, I call those times teachable moments and I
introduce those people to a different perspective on blindness as I learn
from them what they think and how I can be that tool to relearn things about
the blind and who we  are. Humor is first and foremost  a great tool to
disarm and inform. Peace.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."



-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 2:27 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] Is "Why?" Important?

Albert,
    I'm not sure that the "why" is the important form of the question! Why 
something happens, perhaps, is not as important as "how" to change it. When 
parents hush children who see me with my cane or dog, these are the specific

ones I go to, kneel down so as to not intimidate them with my 6'3" 240 lbs 
frame, and share a little about my blindness. I never shirk from using the 
word "blind" in an effort to use it in a positive connotation.
    If we are to ask "why", perhaps the answer lies in the shame many feel 
and communicate by using politically correct terminology, such as "visually 
impaired" or "legally blind". My use of humor helps overcome discomfort with

the public. When I am asked if I am "legally blind", I frequently say, 
'Yeah! And sometimes I am illegally blind!" I once had someone say, "You 
don't look blind!" to which I said, with a sly grin "If you like, I can run 
into something for you! But most blind people don't do that either!" My 
minister's assistant once said, "You do things so well, I sometimes forget 
you are blind!" I replied, "and sometimes you do things so well that I 
sometimes forget you are black!" She asked me what that was supposed to mean

and I told her it meant the same thing she meant by her statement. She 
apologized for her statement and I for mine, telling her it was only meant 
to dramatically illustrate how stereotypes create misunderstanding.
    I would like to look more into the "why" of it all. It would make for a 
very interesting study. For now, though, I will focus upon how to change it!

Fraternally yours,
Marion




----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Cc: <info at myblindspot.org>
Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story


> Where is it that we as adults seem to perpetuate this type of systemic
> discrimination? We start our life as a naive and open minded soul.  We 
> talk
> to all people regardless of color, race, creed, religion, ability,
> orientation, etc.  then as we get a little older and ask those questions 
> of
> the why do you swing that stick? Or why do you break (collapse ) that 
> stick?
> And when we get asked by babes in that way we irradiate ignorance and say 
> to
> them these are my eyes and how I see. We even might let the child handle 
> the
> cane ask them to close their eyes just to get a better understanding in a
> small way of what the cane does.  Then we come upon that child who is a
> little older and sees us with our guide dog and says, mommy  that man is
> blind.  In turn one might respond yes I am but I am not deaf, how did you
> know I was blind.  All at once we are impressed to find that the little 
> girl
> is aware of what purpose the dog serves and how we use the dog to get
> around. Unfortunately  the mother then chastises her daughter for speaking
> out about noticing my blindness as if you could ignore it at all.  In that
> moment the mother has embarrassed her daughter for speaking of my 
> blindness
> and has unintentionally or perhaps intentionally made me feel like I 
> should
> be embarrassed about being blind. Where do we lose  that innocence  and we
> become jaded adults unwilling to see people as they are rather then any
> other way?  It is the mother in that moment who needed to be taught not 
> the
> daughter about appreciating  others and respecting them.  I don't know 
> where
> to begin to combat that with out understanding the whys of it
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Thursday, December 03, 2009 8:52 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Julie,
>
> I didn't know about the contributory negligence thing.  OMG!  Every now 
> and
> then I do run across someone who doesn't believe "those people" should be
> out in public.  Since they say it loudly in my hearing, I can only assume 
> I
> am the "those people" to whom they are referring.  If I pretend I didn't
> hear a thing, I can get quite a lot of insight in the thinking of such
> people.  It's so stupid that I eventually wander off, laughing openly at 
> the
> stupidity of all and shaking my head.  Not worth trying to educate that
> sort, clearly.  But I always make sure to have a nice, intelligent
> conversation and do some intelligent problem solving and stuff where I 
> know
> they will see and hear.  Not because I'm nice, but because I grew up where
> those attitudes are endemic and I know that behaving like I belong where I
> am and am a high-functioning person accepted by others is about the most
> viciously aggressive thing I can do to them!  Okay, so I'm still a redneck
> myself, I guess.  /smile/
>
> Anyway, the fact that that attitude was law -- or at least policy -- is so
> shocking!  As well as they underlying notion that blind people (or people 
> in
> wheelchairs or whatever) shouldn't be out in public.  It's bad enough that
> people thought or still think that way.  But for it to be public policy?
>
> Well, you're right.  We have come a long way.  And it is a marathon.  And
> me, still learning to job again!  /grin/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Julie J
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 11:15 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
> Albert,
>
> Meaning no disrespect here...but I really don't understand how you have 
> come
>
> to the conclusion that there have been no advancements in education for
> blind people and no advancement in social acceptance?
>
> There is the rehab act of 1973, IDEA, the ADA and white cane laws in each
> and every state.  did you know that before the white cane laws it was
> considered contributory negligence for a blind person to be out and about
> alone?  Yes, if you as a blind person were out going to a store and got 
> hit
> by  a car crossing the street it would be considered your, the blind 
> person,
>
> fault because you shouldn't have been out in the first place.  Nevermind 
> the
>
> pedestrian laws, those didn't apply to blind people.
>
> When I was of school age my parents sent me to a private school to avoid 
> the
>
> special and inadequate education available in the public schools.  Earlier
> this year a Mom of a blind child that I mentor and advocate for was
> successful in getting her preschooler both Braille and cane travel 
> included
> in his IEP.  That may not seem like much to you, but to me and that little
> boy it is quite a bit.
>
> That figure of 70% unemployment is, I believe, from a very old survey.  I
> don't know of any recent similar statistics.  If you have a source for
> recent data, I would be very interested.  BTW here in Nebraska our
> Orientation Center graduates have a 90% employment rate.  In the current
> economy that is pretty much par with the national average unemployment 
> rate.
>
> Although here in NE we do have an unemployment rate of less than the
> national average.
>
> I don't think social change is a sprint.  I believe it is a marathon.  the
> folks on this list have been at it for a long, long time.  I know that for
> myself if I tried to achieve full integration for blind people in the next
> year, I would end up in a hospital of some variety for sure.  I know 
> though,
>
> that if we all keep at it and do what we can day after day, year after 
> year,
>
> decade after decade, that we will get there.
>
> JMO
> Julie
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Cc: "'Kathleen Cochran'" <cochrankat at gmail.com>; <info at myblindspot.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:07 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>
>
>> no offense, but I
>> do not see where there has been a useful approach to education and
>> educating others on things as they relate to blindness. Nothing in my
>> opinion exists like my blind spot and if it does how has it been working
>> for
>> all of you? Has there been a shift in the unemployment rate in recent
>> decades? No,  do our blind students get the tools they need from pre-k on
>> to
>> maximize their educational goals and objectives? No. do not misunderstand
>> me, I know many advancements have been realized but now we need to use 
>> the
>> tools that exist to further promote our equality. Litigation should be a
>> last option, invite others to an informed and open dialogue and much will
>> shift and be able to further the hard work and efforts of the trail
>> blazers
>> and pioneers of the blind movement. I mean no disrespect   but I find 
>> that
>> the majority of my blind peers here in my area are malcontent and
>> disappointed in many things that have not changed. There is little hope 
>> of
>> leading independent and financially meaningful lives, and that is a
>> conclusion drawn from first hand experiences and conversations with those
>> stuck and those living life to the fullest. So while I do embrace many of
>> the efforts of  and what the nfb stands for, I see much room for making a
>> better life for my blind peers from the foundation which was laid by the
>> nfb
>> and which seems to have become splintered and dispersed. Just my thoughts
>> on
>> the matter.
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Margo and Arrow
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 10:31 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>> albert, it is good that you wish to help in these areas.  I'm thinking
>> that
>> you may be duplicating what the National Federation of the blind is
>> already
>> doing.
>>
>> if you have not done so, please go to
>>
>> http://www.nfb.org
>>
>> and find out what this 50,000-member organization is already dong toward
>> those ends.
>>
>> Your thoughts, beliefs, and your website, etc., are wonderful.  You
>> mentioned that you are new to the blindness scene yourself.  Please take
>> time to talk with blind folks who have been blind all our lives to find
>> out
>> what paradigms do exist, to find out what we have accomplished, and voice
>> your beliefs, actions, thoughts to all of us.  new ideas and new ways of
>> thinking about things are certainly welcome, but, I think you'll find 
>> that
>> perhaps a lot of what you suggest is already being done on some level or
>> another.  We all are in a position to roll up our sleeves and dive in and
>> do
>>
>> what needs to be done.
>>
>> As we say in the NFB:  We know who we are and we won't go back.
>>
>> Margo and Arrow
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, December 01, 2009 7:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>
>>
>>>I am there with bells on!  I incorporated, got approved as a formal 
>>>501c3,
>>> got my first grant, got on two tri state area news programs, one
>>> international radio show, am in psychology today magazine on page 74,
>>> have
>>
>>> a
>>> nationally focused board all of whom have one degree of separation from
>>> blindness,  and just today secured my first intern, who happens to be
>>> blind,
>>> and all within 9 months of having incorporated.  My blind spot will be
>>> that
>>> missing link and I promise to shift the perspectives of all peoples
>>> beliefs
>>> and positions on blindness and work to decrease the unemployment rate
>>> amongst the blind, which I cannot believe has not shifted in nearly 4
>>> decades. I cannot and will not be able to do it alone. So with the
>>> permission of all of you, I would like to post a link to our site and to
>>> our
>>> face book page so we can keep you posted on our efforts, but more
>>> importantly, get your input on how to provide those deliverables which
>>> seem
>>> to have alluded us for so long despite the good work of my blind
>>> predecessors.  I was listening to walking alone and marching together 
>>> and
>>> heard clearly that education across the board of what our abilities are
>>> in
>>> both the sighted and visually impaired communities are what is lacking.
>>> I
>>> heard tell of our first presidents call to action to protect our
>>> interests
>>> from the muck and mire of the social security system, yet all to many of
>>> us
>>> are right where he feared we would be. I say time to take the initiative
>>> to
>>> build on our fore fathers and mothers efforts and do them proud. That is
>>> what my blind spot hopes to be, promises to be and will be with all of
>>> you
>>> to help mentor and guide me and my team. Peace.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York  10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of JULIE PHILLIPSON
>>> Sent: Monday, November 30, 2009 7:16 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>> Albert I hope you are willing to joint in this effort that we have been
>>> doing for the last 80 plus years in this country.
>>>
>>> Julie Phillipson
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 11:14 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>
>>>
>>>> Well then perhaps it is time for us to inform and educate our community
>>>> on
>>>> their civil liberties and open the door of opportunity for the blind
>>>> rather
>>>> then beating a drum presuming discriminatory practices when many of the
>>>> members of our community are not verse in the laws presently in place 
>>>> to
>>>> ensure equality and access for any and all of us navigating life with a
>>>> specific challenge or two.  Education for both the sighted and the 
>>>> blind
>>>> needs to be the focus in all things if what you say is true. If there
>>>> are
>>>> members of the community who do not know their rights, perhaps we could
>>>> mobilize a social paradigm shift that educates all people on
>>>> accessibility,
>>>> technologies and the immense opportunities which come with the manner
>>>> with
>>>> which we see things as blind people.
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Julie J
>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 26, 2009 9:11 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>> Albert,
>>>>
>>>> I know of disabled folks who use service animals that are Yorkies or 
>>>> Pit
>>>> Bulls.  They are not all that common, but if it works for that
>>>> individual,
>>>> why not?
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand why you think that people who want to commit fraud 
>>>> by
>>>> passing their pet as a service animal don't know the laws.  There's
>>>> loads
>>>> of
>>>>
>>>> disabled people using fully trained service animals that have no clue
>>>> about
>>>> their rights under the law.  Likewise there's fraudulent people who 
>>>> know
>>>> the
>>>>
>>>> law quite well.
>>>>
>>>> How do you tell the "legitimate" service animals from the "fake" ones?
>>>> Not all service animals do the same tasks.  Even within service animals
>>>> of
>>>> the same variety, guide dogs for example, there is still a lot of
>>>> variables.
>>>>
>>>> Who trains the individuals who get to make the determination between 
>>>> the
>>>> real ones and the fake ones?  How do you ensure personal privacy during
>>>> this
>>>>
>>>> process?  How does this work when traveling between
>>>> states/counties/cities?
>>>> How does getting a certification/ID/tag ensure that the dog will behave
>>>> appropriately the next week, the next year,  or in situations different
>>>> from
>>>>
>>>> those in the test?  Who pays for all of this?  How will it not be a
>>>> burden
>>>> to those disabled people who do not attend a residential training
>>>> program?
>>>>
>>>> I'm not opposed to the idea of verification of service animals  in some
>>>> way,
>>>>
>>>> but I haven't yet come across answers to all the above questions that
>>>> would
>>>> allow me to feel comfortable supporting a certification process.
>>>>
>>>> I'd love to hear your thoughts.
>>>> Julie
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:35 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I suppose you can make an argument for any and all instances where you
>>>>>think
>>>>> your rights are being violated. But as I stated, it seems to me that
>>>>> this
>>>>> is
>>>>> an attempt to control liars and those attempting to mislead.  As you
>>>>> said
>>>>> federal laws trump codes and such, and you as an informed and educated
>>>>> individual verse in the laws, as are the police, or at least we should
>>>>> hope,
>>>>> I do draw attention to the learning experience at the ice cream parlor
>>>>> we
>>>>> all discussed, should hope and rest assured that we may not be denied
>>>>> access
>>>>> anywhere we travel.  Yet, someone who attempts to mislead will not 
>>>>> know
>>>>> the
>>>>> law and should and must be held accountable to not having their pet
>>>>> accompany them where our service animals do.  How would you suggest
>>>>> combating the misleading individuals who try to pass of yorkies and or
>>>>> pit
>>>>> bulls as service animals? .
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Marion & Martin
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:33 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert,
>>>>>    The problem with the tag might be the challenges it would cause for
>>>>> those of us from another jurisdiction who do not have such a tag. If I
>>>>> travel to this area with my guide dog and am questioned about such a
>>>>> tag,
>>>>> would I be denied access because they are imposing more restrictions
>>>>> upon
>>>>> me
>>>>>
>>>>> than the law allows? The ADA protects me no matter where I travel in
>>>>> the
>>>>> U.S. and its territories. If the ADA states there is no documentation
>>>>> required for access and a local jurisdiction imposes a restriction 
>>>>> upon
>>>>> me,
>>>>> this jurisdiction is in violation of my rights under Federal law. Even
>>>>> if
>>>>> the tag is an option, some public accommodations may see it as a
>>>>> requirement; thus the local law/ordinance has the effect of creating
>>>>> discrimination against me by confusing the public on this issue.
>>>>>
>>>>> Fraternally yours,
>>>>> Marion
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
>>>>> Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:58 PM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> To tell you the truth I see the tag "option" more as a tool to 
>>>>>> protect
>>>>>> our
>>>>>> rights rather then one to be considered a problem. The code was most
>>>>>> probably created and enforced due to individuals trying to get over 
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> society in order to bring their pets wherever they please.  A service
>>>>>> animal
>>>>>> in and of itself and their abilities are evident when one sees a
>>>>>> service
>>>>>> animal in action. If however a tag helps protect us from charlatans
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> does
>>>>>> not complicate a true handlers life or access then what is the big
>>>>>> deal?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>>> New York, New York  10004
>>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>>> who
>>>>>> is
>>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf
>>>>>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 25, 2009 12:34 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Ann,
>>>>>> I was just as surprized to see in the story that the tags are
>>>>>> mandatory -
>>>>>> just like the law cited about busting people for fraudulent service
>>>>>> animals.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The thing about the tags is NEVER enforced.  I know many guide dog
>>>>>> users
>>>>>> who
>>>>>>
>>>>>> never got around to getting the tags when they started issuing them
>>>>>> several
>>>>>> years ago. I got one so if by chance Landon got loose and was wearing
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> his collar, his finder would know right away that he was a service
>>>>>> dog -
>>>>>> that's the only reason I got it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> When I got the tag, the Animal Control folks NEVER said that these
>>>>>> tags
>>>>>> were
>>>>>>
>>>>>> mandatory as the officer in the article said.  I could very easily
>>>>>> find
>>>>>> out
>>>>>> since I go to their campus to volunteer with the adjoining Humane
>>>>>> Society
>>>>>> twice a month!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think the article was addressing that there is a definate problem
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> these "fake" service animals in the San Diego area - and I assume in
>>>>>> other
>>>>>> locales as well.  When Channel 10 did the story, they NEVER 
>>>>>> approached
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> San Diego guide dog using residents.  All they needed to do is call 
>>>>>> up
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> Blind Community Center or the San Diego Center for the Blind to find
>>>>>> us.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So, yeah, the story was contradictory, I can try to contact the 
>>>>>> writer
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> the story and find out more.  I've just been quite busy with other
>>>>>> pressing
>>>>>> things.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As to rabbits, I have never encountered one as a service animal and I
>>>>>> don't
>>>>>> think it would be a problem to me as some of these untrained,
>>>>>> unsocialized
>>>>>> dogs people bring out and claim they are their service dogs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What I think needs to be done is to bust the offenders who cause
>>>>>> problems.
>>>>>
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>
>>>>>> have encountered some "emotional support" dogs on the bus who were
>>>>>> very
>>>>>> well
>>>>>>
>>>>>> behaved and socialized.  the dogs were suited for the work. I even 
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> one
>>>>>> that lay under the seat on the bus with Landon and it was Landon who
>>>>>> tried
>>>>>> to misbehave! (grin!)  I told these people that I appreciated that
>>>>>> they
>>>>>> had
>>>>>> nice dogs and I have no problem with these.  It is unfortunate that
>>>>>> some
>>>>>> people spoil it all for the people who are responsible whether it is 
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> pet
>>>>>> or a service dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If people in this country trained their dogs and were responsible
>>>>>> owners,
>>>>>> I
>>>>>> think the bans on dogs would go away.  But, you know how it is -
>>>>>> people
>>>>>> lump
>>>>>>
>>>>>> everyone into one group when it comes to dogs or other things.  I 
>>>>>> wish
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> the OFFENDERS would be punished and leave the good folks alone.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Have a Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2009 12:16 AM
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi, Linda,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The logic behind news stories such as this one never ceases to amaze
>>>>>>> me!
>>>>>>> Can someone please explain to me how banning rabbits as service
>>>>>>> animals
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> going to have any effect on the number of pit bulls, Yorkies, and
>>>>>>> Chihuahuas being fraudulently claimed as service animals?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And, while you say that "service dog" tags are not required by
>>>>>>> California
>>>>>>> to gain public access with a service animal, the article clearly
>>>>>>> tells
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> public--and managers of places of public accommodation--the exact
>>>>>>> opposite, "Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter
>>>>>>> told
>>>>>>> 10News that California requires all service dogs wear a special tag,
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> can be obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form."
>>>>>>> Who
>>>>>>> is John Q. Public going to believe, Linda G. who claims that she has
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> right under the ADA to take her "service dog" into any public place
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> just her say-so that the dog performs tasks to mitigate her
>>>>>>> disability,
>>>>>>> or
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa, (who sounds like an *official* law enforcement
>>>>>>> officer
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> me), and who clearly states that California requires that a dog be
>>>>>>> wearing
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "service dog" tags which can be obtained at your local animal 
>>>>>>> shelter
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> order for the person to be granted public access?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What good does it do to state on an e-mail list populated by guide
>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>> users who already presumably know their rights under the ADA, that
>>>>>>> "Service dog" tags are not required for public access, while Lt. Dan
>>>>>>> DeSousa is quoted in the public media stating the exact opposite?
>>>>>>> Perhaps
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> you should try to interest the TV news organization in airing a
>>>>>>> debate
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> the subject of public access by persons with disabilities 
>>>>>>> accompanied
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> service animals between Lt. Dan DeSousa and yourself or some other
>>>>>>> representative of the disability community.  And perhaps they should
>>>>>>> also
>>>>>>> include a user of a service rabbit and a non-disabled person who has
>>>>>>> fraudulently obtained a "service dog" tag for his/her pet pit bull 
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> debate as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is truly an Alice Through the Looking Glass World we live in!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Ann
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>>>>>> From: "Linda Gwizdak" <linda.gwizdak at cox.net>
>>>>>>> To: "NFBnet NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>>>>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 10:23 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] Fake service dogs news story
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>> Here below is an article from a newsstory aired last night on San
>>>>>>>> Diego's
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> KGTV Channel 10.  It was a good piece and I wanted to share it with
>>>>>>>> you.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The service animal tags issued by SD Animal Control is NOT required
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> have our guide dogs admitted into public places.  Some of us have
>>>>>>>> them
>>>>>>>> and some don't. Under ADA these tags can't be the determining 
>>>>>>>> factor
>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>> order to admit a service dog - it just lets the public know that 
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>> has been registered with the County of San Diego as a service dog.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> We experience the problem of these dogs mentioned in the story all
>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>> time. One of my friends was getting off the bus when a "service 
>>>>>>>> dog"
>>>>>>>> lunged and growled not only at her guide dog, but at several
>>>>>>>> passengers!
>>>>>>>> The bus driver did nothing about this.  He was probably afraid of
>>>>>>>> being
>>>>>>>> sued under ADA.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I personally have encountered these nasty dogs on the bus and in
>>>>>>>> public
>>>>>>>> buildings.  It sure is scary when all of a sudden you hear this
>>>>>>>> menacing
>>>>>>>> dog near you!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I hope the new ADA regs will help get rid of this problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Linda and Landon
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Loopholes Allow Pets to Be Taken Anywhere
>>>>>>>> SAN DIEGO -- We all love our pets but some people are willing to
>>>>>>>> break
>>>>>>>> the law so they can take their dogs with them everywhere they go.
>>>>>>>> 10News
>>>>>>>> reporter Rachel Bianco investigated San Diego's canine companion
>>>>>>>> controversy and how it threatens the rights of people who are truly
>>>>>>>> disabled.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sady the miniature daschund doesn't look like your typical service
>>>>>>>> dog
>>>>>>>> nor -- with her jumping and barking -- does she act like one, but
>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>> she wore a service dog vest and badge she had no trouble getting
>>>>>>>> into
>>>>>>>> North County restaurants.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Tami Michaels has a legitimate disability and a legitimate service
>>>>>>>> dog.
>>>>>>>> She said that when Fido is a fake it poses a real problem.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "A lot of them don't have the right temperament to be out in
>>>>>>>> public,"
>>>>>>>> Michaels said. "So, when I go in with my dog to a grocery store or 
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> restaurant, often times these kinds of dogs will lunge and growl 
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> snap
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> at my dog."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> But snapping dogs aren't the only problem. "I've seen a lot more
>>>>>>>> suspicion from people where they automatically assume you are 
>>>>>>>> trying
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> pull something over on them," Michaels added.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Lt. Dan DeSousa of the San Diego County Animal Shelter told 10News
>>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>>> California requires all service dogs wear a special tag, which can
>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>> obtained at your local animal shelter by filling out a form. The
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> problem, DeSousa said, is that there is no way to follow up on the
>>>>>>>> answers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> DeSousa said that when someone applies for a service dog tag the
>>>>>>>> only
>>>>>>>> question they have to answer is if the animal is trained to perform
>>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>>> task for the person. There is no way to verify that what they're
>>>>>>>> saying
>>>>>>>> is true.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "Doctors notes and disablities, that's off limits to us," DeSousa
>>>>>>>> said,
>>>>>>>> "we can't ask about that, so we have to take people at their word."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> So far this year, the county has issued the most service dog 
>>>>>>>> tags --
>>>>>>>> 43 --  to labradors. Chihuahuas came in second with 37 tags, 
>>>>>>>> beating
>>>>>>>> golden retrievers which had 25.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Also curiously high on the list: yorkshire terriers, pit bulls, and
>>>>>>>> pugs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "There are people who want this tag just so they can take their dog
>>>>>>>> wherever they want to, so they can take it into the stores,
>>>>>>>> restaurants
>>>>>>>> and things like that," said DeSousa.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "A lot of people really just don't see anyting wrong with it I
>>>>>>>> guess,"
>>>>>>>> Michaels said. "They just really don't understand how much it hurts
>>>>>>>> legitimate service dog teams."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Having a fake service animal is a misdemeanor fraud punishable by
>>>>>>>> six
>>>>>>>> months in jail or a $1,000 fine but the San Diego Sheriff's
>>>>>>>> Department
>>>>>>>> told 10News that it has never been enforced.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right now it is simply too hard to tell whether the canine is a 
>>>>>>>> con.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The U.S. Justice Department is currently looking to tighten the
>>>>>>>> rules
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> service animals. The new guidelines under review would exclude
>>>>>>>> reptiles,
>>>>>>>> amphibians, rodents, farm animals, ferrets and rabbits. A final
>>>>>>>> decision
>>>>>>>> is expected by the end of the year.
>>>>>>>> Copyright 2009 by 10News.com. All rights reserved. This material 
>>>>>>>> may
>>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>>> be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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