[nagdu] Clicker Training, was: tripping on bones

Tue Dec 8 22:46:06 UTC 2009

Thank you Ann!  This is the group I was referring to in my previous message. 
I keep forgetting that it's now at freelists instead of smart groups. 
thanks for sending the info.

Julie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 4:22 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Clicker Training, was: tripping on bones

> Hi, Tracy and Everyone,
>
> As with most other things, the people who write about clicker training, as 
> well as training methods of any other sort, are mostly sighted people.  So 
> they naturally describe visual methods of observing what is happening 
> around one.  But, as you know only too well,  this doesn't mean that there 
> are no other ways of gathering information.  As in my example below of 
> ways to know when the partner's shoes have "hit the spot", all you have to 
> do is apply a little creativity and use all the non-vision-dependent 
> techniques that you would use for any other endeavor.  We can't expect the 
> sighted people to tell us how to adapt things for non-visual access. 
> After all, we are the experts on how to do things as blind people.
>
> If anyone needs suggestions for how to adapt clicker training methodology 
> for non-visual use, we have an e-mail group of blind clicker trainers who 
> would be happy to give suggestions.  The list can be joined by sending a 
> blank e-mail message to VI-Clicker-Trainers-request at freelists.org and 
> putting the word "subscribe" in the subject line.  (At least, I think that 
> is the subscription information, but it's been a while since I checked it. 
> So if it doesn't work, let me know and I'll refer to a source which is 
> more reliable than my own memory.)  The VI Clicker Trainers' group even 
> has a set of "Getting Started" lessons specifically designed for blind 
> trainers which we are happy to share.
>
> Best to All,
> Ann
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 10:05 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] tripping on bones
>
>
>> "Don't Shoot the Dog" is available from Bookshare.
>>
>> It seems to me to rely very heavily on seeing what is happening, though.
>>
>> Or maybe the problem is that Ben is smarter than I am, so he has trained
>> me, instead of the other way around.
>> Tracy
>>
>>> Rox!  I'm surprised that you, of all people,  suggest a P- solution to 
>>> the
>>> problem of inconveniently abandoned shoes!
>>>
>>> Albert, for a more "positive reinforcement-type solution--you might 
>>> simply
>>> try to notice the rare occasions when he tosses his shoes in the 
>>> direction
>>> of where you would like them to land, and immediately reward him with
>>> something he really likes.  You don't even have to tell him what the
>>> reward
>>> is for; let him figure it out.  (This is the "sneaky" method.)
>>> Or, for a more straightforward approach, you could identify the place
>>> where
>>> you want him to put the shoes, and reward him immediately whenever the
>>> shoes
>>> hit that spot.  In order for you to know when the shoes have "hit the
>>> spot,"
>>> you might want to have some sort of sound-producing device that will let
>>> you
>>> know that the shoes have landed on the spot!
>>>
>>> For tips on training all sorts of beings, Karen Pryor's book, "Don't 
>>> Shoot
>>> the Dog" is still one of the best resources, and very readable.
>>>
>>> Have fun training!
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Ann
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Monday, December 07, 2009 12:45 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] tripping on bones
>>>
>>>
>>>> Albert,
>>>>
>>>> next time he does it, just hide the shoes.  He'll learn quick!
>>>>
>>>> My dogs also hide stuff outside.  My current working guide, Laveau a
>>>> Doberman loves her harness, she will take it to her bed and snuggle
>>>> with
>>>> it until it is time to go to work again.  I have to put it up  high so
>>>> she'll leave it alone.  The other day I was getting ready to  throw my
>>>> harness in the wash and set it down to collect more laundry.   In a
>>>> flash
>>>> she stole it and hid it.  I had to send my golden in to  find it, which
>>>> she did.  Mill'E, my golden keeps me organized.  If I  didn't have her
>>>> I'd
>>>> be in a lot of trouble! *grin*
>>>>
>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>> nagdu:
>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/carcione%40access.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>> nagdu:
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/annedie%40nycap.rr.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/julielj%40windstream.net
> 