[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Fri Dec 25 20:56:13 UTC 2009
Your points are all valid ones for sure. it would require some thought and
dialogue to ensure a proper governing board for such an endeavor would be
chosen with the utmost of empowerment and of course devoid of self serving
agendas of any school. I had suggested that educational institutions
include such training n in their mobility instructor programs. These could
be paid for through tuition assistance programs much as they are today. I
would think that anyone sitting on such a board would have to not be
actively involved in any school so as to avoid impropriety and nepotism or
favoritism. It is possible, just needs to be thought out.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Buddy Brannan
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:19 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
Hi Albert,
Here's the problem that I, personally, have with certification. Actually, it
isn't so much with the idea of certification itself but rather with its
implementation. Who would do the certifying? What body of trained and
knowledgeable people would actually conduct the certification? Moreover, how
would this process be conducted fairly? Do we trust training organizations
to serve on a certification board? If so, how do we insure that the
certification is not so heavily skewed to the interests of the training
organizations that owner/trainers are not treated fairly in the
certification process? These are tough questions with no clear cut answers.
Oh yes, and who will pay for this certification program?
I know the easy answer is to have the certifying body made up of
representatives from the various service dog training programs, but again, I
ask, how will such a body of "professionals" be held accountable to be sure
that owner/trainers, hot working through any of the programs, are fairly
represented and fairly certified? That's my biggest concern with the whole
certification idea, really.
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
On Dec 25, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
> I am not sure but sounds like we are blurring the lines. We fight to get
> these protections, and then we jump at attempts to improve them. If in
fact
> your cat is a service companion as is the gentleman you speak of with
> autism, that is not what the amendment is addressing or as it seems to be
> the concern, restricting. They are expanding the reach of the law to
> include service animals in training. Am I missing something here? We
expect
> doctors, lawyers, teachers, computer specialists and oh so many others to
be
> certified to conduct themselves, why would the certification requirement
> cause alarm as it has? I would think, just from the chats herein there
> would be good reason to require certification. I have heard tell of peers
> who's guides were not on point, dogs left in airports being sent back to
> schools because they did not perform properly and truth be told to much
time
> passed and undue anxiety imposed upon people, wouldn't certification
> ensure proper guidelines are followed for the safe and proper training of
> guides, regardless of whether trained independently or through a school?
Not
> really seeing the cause for concern here.
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Cindy Ray
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 10:45 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> Well, that is, of course, why they are entering"certtified" into this.
This
> is being done some; and where do you draw the line anyway. I bring my cat
> into a restaurnt because the cat helps relief my stress and my doctor says
> that's what I need to do. And, off course, I could probably bring a note
> that was allegedly from a doc, too, so that is what they are trying to
guard
>
> against. They also would probably like you to have to show your
> certification, and that has been discussed. I knew a very high functioning
> person with autism who had trained a dog, but the University of Kansas
> Police were wanting to see certification that the dog was legit, and it
did
> truly help the guy stay focused. Most folks haven't seen as high a
> functioning person with autism as this man was, so they weren't altogether
> sure he was legit, but he was. So there is good reason for the protection;
> there is also valid concern about the protection. I am not sure that I
could
>
> currently produce my picture with Fisher, though I suspect I could if I
had
> to.
>
> Cindy
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 9:39 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
> The other concern I see is that this could well open the door to even more
> abuse by the unscrupulous public, wherein someone could bring their
> ill-behaved pet and say it's being trained as a service dog. Said
> unscrupulous person need not even pretend to be disabled anymore; rather,
> s/he just needs to convince someone that their pet is being trained for
some
>
> service task or other to help some poor unfortunate disabled person.
Again,
> the question is, how to balance the needs of people legitimately training
> (as opposed to socializing) service dogs with the needs to make abuse of
the
>
> provision more difficult?
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
> On Dec 25, 2009, at 9:22 AM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>
>> Steve,
>>
>> While I can understand your fear of how this legislation could limit
>> rights,
>> I am inclined it to feel that it is designed to further protect and
ensure
>> access. On a number of occasions people who volunteer their time, to
>> train
>> and indoctrinate guides into everyday life are denied access in many
>> places
>> as they work to integrate dogs into public arenas. These are not
>> certified
>> professionals, by any means, but I could see where further access
>> protections need to be ensured. It is the word certified which causes
>> alarm
>> I would guess. I never knew that anyone inclined to do so could train a
>> dog
>> as a guide and not be questioned about their qualifications to do so.
>> When
>> I read this it speaks of affording more protection and access, but when I
>> hear your position, I see a slightly different concern as presented. How
>> would you suggest exercising the legislation properly to allow
protections
>> to trainers and others working with service dogs, if in fact the law as
it
>> stands does not afford that option?
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:53 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Hi Sherri,
>>
>> A great segway into a lively discussion I would surmise?
>>
>> I do have a couple of thoughts.
>>
>> 1. A number of formal schools that train animals i.e. primarily dog
>> guides,
>>
>> have worked very hard to establish relationships with their
>> communities that they have a strong presence in, thus already allowing
>> such
>> access.
>> 2. Is this not potentially narrowing the coverage of the ADA by only
>> allowing "certified" individuals to have access? This goes against the
>> law
>> as it currently stands in specifically covering self-trained animals.
>> 3. The whole issue of certification is an issue that has been discussed
>> and
>> debated at nauseum, but too would potentially narrow the definition of
the
>> ADA as it currently stands as those who choose to self-train are most
>> certainly treated differently in this proposed legislation.
>>
>> I can tell you as a resident of Wisconsin, allowance of service animals
in
>> training to access places of public accommodation is already written into
>> our laws as of 2006 I believe, regardless, it is fairly recent.
>>
>> I believe that this Federal proposal has the
>> potential to narrow the scope of who would be allowed to access places of
>> public accommodation in that of being only certified trainers is, through
>> my
>> understanding of the ADA, discriminatory.
>>
>> Most of our professional dog guide schools, and I will specifically focus
>> on
>> us, do have a great relationship in the communities that they are
centered
>> around. I am wondering if this might be stemming from other service
>> animal
>> access issues outside of the dog guide realm? I guess there are a lot of
>> things we don't know about this legislation.
>>
>> Oh yeh, did you see that there is also an effort to repeal the provision
>> in
>> the Air Carrier act that requires a 48 hour notice for psychiatric
service
>> animals scheduled for flights longer than 8 hours? Another topic that
>> has
>> potential to be rather interesting on the discussion front.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this though, I had definitely not seen it yet.
>>
>> again, this is just my immediate opinion which is always subject to
>> change.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:12 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> I don't know if this has already shown up on the list. If so, forgive
the
>>> forward. If not, what does everyone think?
>>>
>>> Sherri
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: William Stephan
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:52 PM
>>> Subject: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All: It's true that not much surprises me these days in terms of what
>>> Congress does, but this is spectacularly bad at a whole bunch of
>>> levels.Hopefully, GDUIand NAGDU will do the right thing and oppose this
>>> vigorously
>>>
>>> To amend the Americans with Disabilities Act to require that the same
>>> access
>>> to transportation and public accommodations be afforded to certified
>>> trainers of service animals as is afforded... (Introduced in House)
>>>
>>> HR 4378 IH
>>>
>>> 111th CONGRESS
>>>
>>> 1st Session
>>>
>>> H. R. 4378
>>>
>>> To amend the Americans with Disabilities Act to require that the same
>>> access
>>> to transportation and public accommodations be afforded to certified
>>> trainers of service animals as is afforded under such Act to individuals
>>> with disabilities who use such service animals.
>>>
>>> IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
>>>
>>> December 16, 2009
>>>
>>> Mr. KISSELL introduced the following bill; which was referred to the
>>> Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, and in addition to the
>>> Committee on the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined
by
>>> the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall
>>> within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> A BILL
>>>
>>> To amend the Americans with Disabilities Act to require that the same
>>> access
>>> to transportation and public accommodations be afforded to certified
>>> trainers of service animals as is afforded under such Act to individuals
>>> with disabilities who use such service animals.
>>>
>>> Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
>>> States of America in Congress assembled,
>>>
>>> SECTION 1. ACCESS TO CERTIFIED TRAINERS OF SERVICE ANIMALS.
>>>
>>> Title V of the Americans with Disabilities Act is amended by adding at
>>> the
>>> end the following new section:
>>>
>>> `SEC. 515. RIGHTS OF CERTIFIED TRAINERS OF SERVICE ANIMALS.
>>>
>>> `(a) Protections Afforded- A licensed or certified trainer of a service
>>> animal, or a handler of such animal that has credentials issued by an
>>> accredited school for training service animals, when accompanied by such
>>> service animal, shall be afforded the same right of access to public
>>> transportation, public accommodations, and transportation services
>>> provided
>>> by private entities as is afforded under titles II and III of this Act
to
>>> individuals with disabilities who use service animals. It shall be
>>> discriminatory under this Act to afford such a trainer , when
accompanied
>>> by
>>> a service animal, with any service, facility, privilege, advantage, or
>>> accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals.
>>>
>>> `(b) Definition of Service Animal- As used in this section, the term
>>> `service animal' means a guide dog, signal dog, or other animal
>>> individually
>>> trained or being trained to provide assistance to an individual with a
>>> disability, regardless of whether such animal has been licensed or
>>> certified
>>> by a State or local government.
>>>
>>> `(c) Authority To Revise Regulations- The Secretary of Transportation
and
>>> the Attorney General shall each revise regulations issued under this Act
>>> as
>>> necessary to carry out this section.'.
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
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