[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Buddy Brannan buddy at brannan.name
Fri Dec 25 21:12:53 UTC 2009 

Actually, no. Unless and until I can see a fair and cost-effective program that would be administered by people who have a clue (and unfortunately, I don't see any way such a thing can happen, given the aforementioned complexities coupled with government's abysmal track record at such things), there's no way I can support certification. There are far too many ways a certification program can either be screwed up or screw somebody over. 
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY



On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:

> So would it be safe to assume that you support certification from your
> statement?
> 
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
> 
> 
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:32 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
> 
> On Dec 25, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
> 
>> While we mull over what constitutes  a service animal, lets determine to
>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns, diabetic
>> and seizure issues and any multitude   of reasons a medically prescribed
>> animal would help one who needs one.
> 
> Actually, let's not. 
> 
> The current definition for a service animal is, IMO, not too bad, i.e. any
> definition of service animal must of necessity include that the animal must
> be task trained, etc. etc. If we open up the definition further to include
> so-called "emotional support animals", well, it isn't much further to go to
> allow pets of all kinds. Mind you, I don't have a problem with pets in
> public places so long as they're well-behaved and under good control. Sadly,
> hoever, most are not, but I digress. For the brief time I was the membership
> coordinator for IAADP (last year, actually), you wouldn't believe the number
> of calls and Emails I had to field from people who would call asking about
> their rights as handlers of service dogs, but it turned out that these dogs
> had no formal task training. The dog "calmed me by its presence" or other
> such nonsense. Friends, that is what we in the biz call a "pet". 
> 
> Now a dog that alerts to seizures, diabetic highs or lows, perhaps severe
> allergens (yes, really, might be a stretch--I don't know), and so on, I
> would think qualifies as a service dog, if, again, it had specific task
> training to mitigate a disability. Say, a seizure alert dog that would alert
> its handler to an oncoming seizure, get him/her to a safe place before the
> onset of the seizure, then pressed a 911 call button. Or a dog that provided
> support to someone who had some balance or other issue. But comfort or
> anchor to reality or what have you are not trained tasks. 
>> 
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
> 
> 
> 
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>> doing it."
>> 
>> 
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> 
>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with the 
>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
> constitute 
>> one really?
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> 
>> 
>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage  which is
>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides are
>> being denied access.  What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in the
>> a.d.a., which as you  yourself presented, can be interpreted to prevent
> such
>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person using
>> the same for the intended purpose?  And what of our peers who use
> companions
>> for a diagnosable  condition where a companion animal/service animal is
>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford them
>> the same protections, or do they?  I think that trainers should be held to
> a
>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum dogs
> do
>> not live through that pain again.  there is something to say for the
>> consideration of certification  provided that a standard  of national
>> proportions  could be meaningful.
>> 
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
>> doing it."
>> 
>> 
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> 
>> Hi Cindy,
>> 
>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>> 
>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the certification
>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict the
>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>> accommodation.
>> 
>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed on
>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then would'nt
>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified entity
>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>> 
>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
> places
>> of public accommodation.  The fair housing amendments act already provides
>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals in
>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
> where
>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>> reasonable accommodation.  The underlying problem is that these are not
>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
> functional
>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a professional
>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>> 
>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would expand
>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is specifically
>> stated in the ADA.
>> 
>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we are
>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>> 
>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service animals,
> the
>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention in
> that
>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to expand
> and
>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals.  Mark my word.
>> 
>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further understand
> that
>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
> providing
>> a service.  A support yes, a service no.
>> 
>> Steve
>> 
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> 
>> 
>>> What is PWD?
>>> 
>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the people
>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
> those
>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification outfit
>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC knows
>>> what
>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So why
>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
> School
>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified trainers?
>>> Would
>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>> 
>>> CL
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>> 
>>> 
>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>> 
>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers.  If I want to call
>>> myself a dog trainer, I can.  There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary.  The guide
>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed on.
>>> 
>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>> 
>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying PWD.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>> 
>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>> 
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