[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
Albert J Rizzi
albert at myblindspot.org
Sat Dec 26 13:43:09 UTC 2009
And if such a program were to exist, there would need to be and should be a
national standard developed and overseen by handlers, trainers, and other
parties not in a position to gain anything from such a standardized
certification so as to level playing fields. Norwegians certification
process does nothing to promote cruise travel as a whole but does promote
Norwegian cruise travel. That is the one consideration needed to ensure that
any certification would not be self serving and thereby moot as a
certification given by an individual organization or corporation, most
certainly does not travel with you once you change offices. Certification
should be state wide or nation wide and useful regardless of where one hangs
their work hat.
Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York 10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."
Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of cheryl echevarria
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 6:04 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
I have been reading the posts just coming back from a visit for christmas,
in the way of certification, let's say for myself, I am certified as a
medical insurance specialist, I did not take it as a government position or
a job, it was done by a school, and I took a test from the National
Certification program that gives the test, it doesn't have to come from the
government.
Certification is knowledge, such as myself being certified to sell a product
like Norwegian Cruise Lines, I learned the product from Norwegian
themselves, if to know about there products to become more specialized that
the average travel agent, not all travel agents are certified in the items
they sell. But I make it a point to get certified in the different suppliers
out there.
Couldn't each school offer some kind of certification through what is it
that certifies the school, There is an organization under which the guide
dog schools must know and train there instructor, there is no problem with
getting certified, as long as the program is a good one.
Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Contractor
Echevarriatravel.com
1-866-580-5574
Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
----- Original Message -----
From: Buddy Brannan<mailto:buddy at brannan.name>
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
Actually, no. Unless and until I can see a fair and cost-effective program
that would be administered by people who have a clue (and unfortunately, I
don't see any way such a thing can happen, given the aforementioned
complexities coupled with government's abysmal track record at such things),
there's no way I can support certification. There are far too many ways a
certification program can either be screwed up or screw somebody over.
--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
> So would it be safe to assume that you support certification from your
> statement?
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Buddy Brannan
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:32 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> On Dec 25, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>
>> While we mull over what constitutes a service animal, lets determine
to
>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns,
diabetic
>> and seizure issues and any multitude of reasons a medically
prescribed
>> animal would help one who needs one.
>
> Actually, let's not.
>
> The current definition for a service animal is, IMO, not too bad, i.e.
any
> definition of service animal must of necessity include that the animal
must
> be task trained, etc. etc. If we open up the definition further to
include
> so-called "emotional support animals", well, it isn't much further to go
to
> allow pets of all kinds. Mind you, I don't have a problem with pets in
> public places so long as they're well-behaved and under good control.
Sadly,
> hoever, most are not, but I digress. For the brief time I was the
membership
> coordinator for IAADP (last year, actually), you wouldn't believe the
number
> of calls and Emails I had to field from people who would call asking
about
> their rights as handlers of service dogs, but it turned out that these
dogs
> had no formal task training. The dog "calmed me by its presence" or
other
> such nonsense. Friends, that is what we in the biz call a "pet".
>
> Now a dog that alerts to seizures, diabetic highs or lows, perhaps
severe
> allergens (yes, really, might be a stretch--I don't know), and so on, I
> would think qualifies as a service dog, if, again, it had specific task
> training to mitigate a disability. Say, a seizure alert dog that would
alert
> its handler to an oncoming seizure, get him/her to a safe place before
the
> onset of the seizure, then pressed a 911 call button. Or a dog that
provided
> support to someone who had some balance or other issue. But comfort or
> anchor to reality or what have you are not trained tasks.
>>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>
>
>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with
the
>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
> constitute
>> one really?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
<albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage which
is
>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides
are
>> being denied access. What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in the
>> a.d.a., which as you yourself presented, can be interpreted to prevent
> such
>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
using
>> the same for the intended purpose? And what of our peers who use
> companions
>> for a diagnosable condition where a companion animal/service animal is
>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford
them
>> the same protections, or do they? I think that trainers should be held
to
> a
>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum
dogs
> do
>> not live through that pain again. there is something to say for the
>> consideration of certification provided that a standard of national
>> proportions could be meaningful.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
[mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Hi Cindy,
>>
>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>
>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
certification
>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict
the
>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>> accommodation.
>>
>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed on
>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
would'nt
>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified
entity
>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>
>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
> places
>> of public accommodation. The fair housing amendments act already
provides
>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals
in
>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
> where
>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>> reasonable accommodation. The underlying problem is that these are not
>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
> functional
>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a professional
>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>
>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would
expand
>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
specifically
>> stated in the ADA.
>>
>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we
are
>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>
>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service animals,
> the
>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention in
> that
>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to expand
> and
>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals. Mark my
word.
>>
>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further understand
> that
>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
> providing
>> a service. A support yes, a service no.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net<mailto:cindyray at qwest.net>>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> What is PWD?
>>>
>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
people
>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
> those
>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification
outfit
>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC
knows
>>> what
>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So
why
>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
> School
>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified trainers?
>>> Would
>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>
>>> CL
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack"
<pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>
>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers. If I want to call
>>> myself a dog trainer, I can. There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary. The guide
>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed
on.
>>>
>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>
>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying
PWD.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>>
>>> Windows Live Only:
Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com>
>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> nagdu mailing list
>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>> nagdu:
>>>
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cent
<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cen
t>
>> urytel.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/>
>> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date:
> 12/25/09
>> 03:33:00
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
.
>> org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
.
>> org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
>>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
.
> org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name<
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name>
_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma
il.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%
40hotmail.com>
_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
org
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list