[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Albert J Rizzi albert at myblindspot.org
Sat Dec 26 19:14:29 UTC 2009


I find that below, offered by steven earlier, includes the verbiage
"included but not limited to" which would cover such animals in instances
where they were trained to provide warning for a person diagnosed  and
determined to have the disabling condition of epilepcy or some other seizure
disorder.  As steven said before, the wording can be as clear as mud. But
with a spray bottle and a clean cloth we can see what is intended through
the muck and mire.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."


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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:40 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

albert,
    I am not saying that only guide dogs are legitimate service animals; 
however, the ADA does not protect animals whose only function is to alert 
someone to the onset of a seizure disorder. Though I am not an attorney, so 
my opinion is only that, the ability to alert someone to the onset of a 
seizure is an innate ability, not a trained task and, as such, is not a 
service animal. If the animal is trained to perform a task when the onset of

a seizure is detected, such as clearing an area around the person, pulling a

medical alert device, placing a pillow under the person's head, etc., then 
it is a service animal by definition. Similarly, an animal that comforts 
someone with an anxiety disorder simply by its mere presence, is also not a 
service animal.

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


>I would think that people with epilepsy and seizure disorders using a
> service animal, and I should think the a.d.a. would disagree with your
> position that such and animal is not protected or included in this law. 
> Are
> you attempting to say that only dogs used as guides for the blind are the
> only proper and legal service animals?
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:00 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>    Some of the animals mentioned in this message are not service animals 
> as
>
> defined by the ADA and state laws; therefore, those accompanied by these
> animals do not have the protections afforded under such laws. They may,
> though, be protected by the FHA.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> .
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:48 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> While we mull over what constitutes  a service animal, lets determine to
>> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns, diabetic
>> and seizure issues and any multitude   of reasons a medically prescribed
>> animal would help one who needs one.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Cindy Ray
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with the
>> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>> constitute
>> one really?
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage  which is
>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of guides 
>> are
>> being denied access.  What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in the
>> a.d.a., which as you  yourself presented, can be interpreted to prevent
>> such
>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person 
>> using
>> the same for the intended purpose?  And what of our peers who use
>> companions
>> for a diagnosable  condition where a companion animal/service animal is
>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford them
>> the same protections, or do they?  I think that trainers should be held 
>> to
>
>> a
>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum dogs
>> do
>> not live through that pain again.  there is something to say for the
>> consideration of certification  provided that a standard  of national
>> proportions  could be meaningful.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Hi Cindy,
>>
>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>>
>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the certification
>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict the
>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>> accommodation.
>>
>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed on
>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then would'nt
>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified entity
>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>>
>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>> places
>> of public accommodation.  The fair housing amendments act already 
>> provides
>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion animals in
>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>> where
>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>> reasonable accommodation.  The underlying problem is that these are not
>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>> functional
>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a professional
>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>>
>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would expand
>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is specifically
>> stated in the ADA.
>>
>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then we 
>> are
>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>>
>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service animals,
>> the
>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention in
>> that
>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to expand
>> and
>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals.  Mark my word.
>>
>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further understand
>> that
>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>> providing
>> a service.  A support yes, a service no.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>> What is PWD?
>>>
>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the 
>>> people
>>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>>> those
>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification outfit
>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC knows
>>> what
>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So why
>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>>> School
>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified trainers?
>>> Would
>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person be
>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>>>
>>> CL
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>> and who certifies the trainers?
>>>
>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers.  If I want to call
>>> myself a dog trainer, I can.  There are outfits like CPDT who are
>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary.  The guide
>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed on.
>>>
>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to see
>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>>>
>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying PWD.
>>>
>>>
>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won, you
>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>>> -- Coretta Scott King
>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>>
>>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>>
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>
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>> urytel.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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