[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
Marion & Martin
swampfox1833 at verizon.net
Sat Dec 26 22:21:45 UTC 2009
Albert,
The principle of supremacy allows states to make laws that are broader,
but not more restrictive. Therefore, a state may allow trainers of service
animals access to public acccommodations but may not restrict access to
specific places included in the federal law. HTH!
Marion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
> Hmmm.... but doesn't federal law trump state law in this instance? And if
> not, which states afford the best protections and interpretations of the
> ADA which could then be offered up as a model to be replicated by other
> states?
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York 10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Steve Johnson
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:22 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
> Albert,
>
> In a sense then, this is already done by the licensing of our friends in
> the
> locales in which we live. Why duplicate? My argument would be that the
> City Treasurer has already certified that my guide is just that.
>
> In regards to the other email and the definition of a service animal and
> in
> this case, different types of service dogs, I should again reiterate that
> this information is old, as I do not remember where I had obtained it, but
> the primary idea was to demonstrate how animals are trained for specific
> purposes.
>
> I do agree with you that there is some gray area where these dogs
> described
> perform specific tasks, and it is possible that Marion is pointing out
> that
> it would be very difficult to train some of the specific psychiatric
> service
>
> dogs to perform those functions. However, the ADA is pretty broad in it's
> definition of a service animal as taken directly from the ADAAG:
>
> Service animal means any guide dog, signal dog, or other animal
> individually
>
> trained to do work or perform tasks for the benefit of an individual with
> a
> disability, including, but not limited to, guiding individuals with
> impaired
>
> vision, alerting individuals with impaired hearing to intruders or sounds,
> providing minimal protection or rescue work, pulling a wheelchair, or
> fetching dropped items.
>
> So, what does this mean? Exactly what the ADA intended in that each case
> needs to be viewed on a case by case basis. Sometimes it appears that our
> laws are about as clear as mud, but if we know how to exercise our rights,
> or at least know someone who has a much clearer understanding of how to
> approach a situation, these laws can work.
>
> I realize that through some of the dialogue taking place here, we are
> crossing over to dogs that have already been trained and denied access,
> but
> what we do not know if the states in which these specific incidents may
> have
>
> taken place, actually have existing laws in place that allow access for
> trainers and their animals in training. Again, I will elude back to
> Wisconsin's law that does have this in place. Sometimes, it may be the
> better ottion to check with and understand one's State laws first as it
> will
>
> many times offer more protections than the ADA or other similar Civil
> Rights
>
> laws as I have been specifically told by our DBTAC Director who does know
> these laws.
>
> Thanks for listening,
>
>
>
> Service animals are animals that are individually trained to perform tasks
> for people with disabilities such as guiding people who are blind,
> alerting
> people who are deaf, pulling wheelchairs, alerting and protecting a person
> who is having a seizure, or performing other special tasks. Service
> animals
> are working animals, not pets.
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 7:43 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> And if such a program were to exist, there would need to be and should be
>> a
>> national standard developed and overseen by handlers, trainers, and other
>> parties not in a position to gain anything from such a standardized
>> certification so as to level playing fields. Norwegians certification
>> process does nothing to promote cruise travel as a whole but does promote
>> Norwegian cruise travel. That is the one consideration needed to ensure
>> that
>> any certification would not be self serving and thereby moot as a
>> certification given by an individual organization or corporation, most
>> certainly does not travel with you once you change offices. Certification
>> should be state wide or nation wide and useful regardless of where one
>> hangs
>> their work hat.
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York 10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf
>> Of cheryl echevarria
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 6:04 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> I have been reading the posts just coming back from a visit for
>> christmas,
>> in the way of certification, let's say for myself, I am certified as a
>> medical insurance specialist, I did not take it as a government position
>> or
>> a job, it was done by a school, and I took a test from the National
>> Certification program that gives the test, it doesn't have to come from
>> the
>> government.
>>
>> Certification is knowledge, such as myself being certified to sell a
>> product
>> like Norwegian Cruise Lines, I learned the product from Norwegian
>> themselves, if to know about there products to become more specialized
>> that
>> the average travel agent, not all travel agents are certified in the
>> items
>> they sell. But I make it a point to get certified in the different
>> suppliers
>> out there.
>>
>> Couldn't each school offer some kind of certification through what is it
>> that certifies the school, There is an organization under which the guide
>> dog schools must know and train there instructor, there is no problem
>> with
>> getting certified, as long as the program is a good one.
>>
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> Independent Contractor
>> Echevarriatravel.com
>> 1-866-580-5574
>>
>>
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Buddy Brannan<mailto:buddy at brannan.name>
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 4:12 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>> Actually, no. Unless and until I can see a fair and cost-effective
>> program
>> that would be administered by people who have a clue (and unfortunately,
>> I
>> don't see any way such a thing can happen, given the aforementioned
>> complexities coupled with government's abysmal track record at such
>> things),
>> there's no way I can support certification. There are far too many ways a
>> certification program can either be screwed up or screw somebody over.
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>>
>>
>>
>> On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:06 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>>
>> > So would it be safe to assume that you support certification from your
>> > statement?
>> >
>> > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> > CEO/Founder
>> > My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> > New York, New York 10004
>> > www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> > PH: 917-553-0347
>> > Fax: 212-858-5759
>> > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who
>> is
>> > doing it."
>> >
>> >
>> > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> > Of Buddy Brannan
>> > Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 3:32 PM
>> > To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >
>> > On Dec 25, 2009, at 2:48 PM, Albert J Rizzi wrote:
>> >
>> >> While we mull over what constitutes a service animal, lets determine
>> to
>> >> include companions for the emotional and mental health concerns,
>> diabetic
>> >> and seizure issues and any multitude of reasons a medically
>> prescribed
>> >> animal would help one who needs one.
>> >
>> > Actually, let's not.
>> >
>> > The current definition for a service animal is, IMO, not too bad, i.e.
>> any
>> > definition of service animal must of necessity include that the animal
>> must
>> > be task trained, etc. etc. If we open up the definition further to
>> include
>> > so-called "emotional support animals", well, it isn't much further to
>> go
>> to
>> > allow pets of all kinds. Mind you, I don't have a problem with pets in
>> > public places so long as they're well-behaved and under good control.
>> Sadly,
>> > hoever, most are not, but I digress. For the brief time I was the
>> membership
>> > coordinator for IAADP (last year, actually), you wouldn't believe the
>> number
>> > of calls and Emails I had to field from people who would call asking
>> about
>> > their rights as handlers of service dogs, but it turned out that these
>> dogs
>> > had no formal task training. The dog "calmed me by its presence" or
>> other
>> > such nonsense. Friends, that is what we in the biz call a "pet".
>> >
>> > Now a dog that alerts to seizures, diabetic highs or lows, perhaps
>> severe
>> > allergens (yes, really, might be a stretch--I don't know), and so on,
>> I
>> > would think qualifies as a service dog, if, again, it had specific
>> task
>> > training to mitigate a disability. Say, a seizure alert dog that would
>> alert
>> > its handler to an oncoming seizure, get him/her to a safe place before
>> the
>> > onset of the seizure, then pressed a 911 call button. Or a dog that
>> provided
>> > support to someone who had some balance or other issue. But comfort or
>> > anchor to reality or what have you are not trained tasks.
>> >>
>> > --
>> > Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> > Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> >> CEO/Founder
>> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> >> New York, New York 10004
>> >> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> >> PH: 917-553-0347
>> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who
>> is
>> >> doing it."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> >> Of Cindy Ray
>> >> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:35 PM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>
>> >> The failure of a og to make it with a person has not much to do with
>> the
>> >> trainer, certified or not. As for service dogs, just what *does*
>> > constitute
>> >> one really?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
>> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
>> >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>> Users'"
>> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> >> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage
>> which
>> is
>> >> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of
>> guides
>> are
>> >> being denied access. What would be a suitable wording which would 1.
>> >> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included in
>> the
>> >> a.d.a., which as you yourself presented, can be interpreted to
>> prevent
>> > such
>> >> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a person
>> using
>> >> the same for the intended purpose? And what of our peers who use
>> > companions
>> >> for a diagnosable condition where a companion animal/service animal
>> is
>> >> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to afford
>> them
>> >> the same protections, or do they? I think that trainers should be
>> held
>> to
>> > a
>> >> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got bum
>> dogs
>> > do
>> >> not live through that pain again. there is something to say for the
>> >> consideration of certification provided that a standard of national
>> >> proportions could be meaningful.
>> >>
>> >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> >> CEO/Founder
>> >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> >> New York, New York 10004
>> >> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
>> >> PH: 917-553-0347
>> >> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>> who
>> is
>> >> doing it."
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>
>> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> >> Of Steve Johnson
>> >> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
>> >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>
>> >> Hi Cindy,
>> >>
>> >> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
>> >>
>> >> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
>> certification
>> >> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed restrict
>> the
>> >> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
>> >> accommodation.
>> >>
>> >> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are well-expressed
>> on
>> >> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
>> would'nt
>> >> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a certified
>> entity
>> >> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
>> >>
>> >> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking about
>> > places
>> >> of public accommodation. The fair housing amendments act already
>> provides
>> >> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion
>> animals
>> in
>> >> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private housing
>> > where
>> >> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request for
>> >> reasonable accommodation. The underlying problem is that these are
>> not
>> >> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
>> > functional
>> >> support/service for the individual whether it be through a
>> professional
>> >> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
>> >>
>> >> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this would
>> expand
>> >> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those who
>> >> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
>> specifically
>> >> stated in the ADA.
>> >>
>> >> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this, then
>> we
>> are
>> >> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
>> >>
>> >> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service
>> animals,
>> > the
>> >> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I mention
>> in
>> > that
>> >> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to
>> expand
>> > and
>> >> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals. Mark my
>> word.
>> >>
>> >> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further
>> understand
>> > that
>> >> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
>> > providing
>> >> a service. A support yes, a service no.
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>> >> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net<mailto:cindyray at qwest.net>>
>> >> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> >> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
>> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> What is PWD?
>> >>>
>> >>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where the
>> people
>> >>> train certify them, then what about these independents, particularly
>> > those
>> >>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a certification
>> outfit
>> >>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of NAC
>> knows
>> >>> what
>> >>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind. So
>> why
>> >>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide Dog
>> > School
>> >>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified
>> trainers?
>> >>> Would
>> >>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a person
>> be
>> >>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
>> >>>
>> >>> CL
>> >>>
>> >>> ----- Original Message -----
>> >>> From: "The Pawpower Pack"
>> <pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>>
>> >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
>> >>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
>> >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> and who certifies the trainers?
>> >>>
>> >>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers. If I want to call
>> >>> myself a dog trainer, I can. There are outfits like CPDT who are
>> >>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary. The
>> guide
>> >>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may "certify"
>> >>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's printed
>> on.
>> >>>
>> >>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate to
>> see
>> >>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
>> >>>
>> >>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to certifying
>> PWD.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>> >>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>> >>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really won,
>> you
>> >>> earn it and win it in every generation."
>> >>> -- Coretta Scott King
>> >>> pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>
>> >>>
>> >>> Windows Live Only:
>> Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com>
>> >>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> >>> nagdu:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> nagdu mailing list
>> >>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info
>> for
>> >>> nagdu:
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cent
>>
> <http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cen
>> t>
>> >> urytel.net
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> >> ----
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com<http://www.avg.com/>
>> >> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.119/2586 - Release Date:
>> > 12/25/09
>> >> 03:33:00
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
>> .
>> >> org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cindyray%40qwest.net>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
>> .
>> >> org
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> nagdu mailing list
>> >> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> >> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> > nagdu:
>> >>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name>
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot>
>> .
>> > org
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > nagdu mailing list
>> > nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> > To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>> >
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name<
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/buddy%40brannan.name>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org<http://www.nfbnet.or
>> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%40hotma
>>
> il.com<http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cherylandmaxx%
>> 40hotmail.com>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
>> org
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> nagdu mailing list
>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>> nagdu:
>>
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/stevencjohnson%40cent
> urytel.net
>>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 9.0.722 / Virus Database: 270.14.120/2587 - Release Date:
> 12/26/09
> 02:27:00
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/albert%40myblindspot.
> org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> nagdu mailing list
> nagdu at nfbnet.org
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
> nagdu:
> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/swampfox1833%40verizon.net
More information about the NAGDU
mailing list