[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

Sun Dec 27 05:04:32 UTC 2009

Marion, Having been the person who initiated this discussion by sending out 
the proposal, I would say that I too agree with you and that it should not 
be within the scope of the ADA to advocate for such a law, but rather, 
individual states. And again, what do they mean by "certified"? And where 
does that leave those who privately train their assistance animals? All in 
all, I vote against supporting this legislation.
Sherri
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 7:53 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


> Dear All,
>    I am of the opinion that the ADA, as a law that prohibits 
> discrimination on the basis of disability, should not be extended to those 
> who are training service animals. I feel it is the responsibility of the 
> states to create such laws, as most already do. I would like to hear more 
> opinions from our membership prior to the Board writing an official 
> statement on this issue.
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cindy Ray" <cindyray at qwest.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 9:34 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>
>
>> Albert, how are you going to account for the folk who are not certified 
>> but
>> who do a very fine job of training their own service animals; where would
>> such legislation end as it sought to "protect" someone?
>>
>> CL
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 8:22 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>> Steve,
>>
>> While I can understand your fear of how this legislation could limit 
>> rights,
>> I am inclined it to feel that it is designed to further protect and 
>> ensure
>> access.  On a number of occasions people who volunteer their time, to 
>> train
>> and indoctrinate guides into everyday life are denied access in many 
>> places
>> as they work to integrate dogs into public arenas.  These are not 
>> certified
>> professionals, by any means, but I could see where further access
>> protections need to be ensured.  It is the word certified which causes 
>> alarm
>> I would guess.  I never knew that anyone inclined to do so could train a 
>> dog
>> as a guide and not be questioned about their qualifications to do so. 
>> When
>> I read this it speaks of affording more protection and access, but when I
>> hear your position, I see a slightly different concern as presented.  How
>> would you suggest exercising the legislation properly to allow 
>> protections
>> to trainers and others working with service dogs, if in fact the law as 
>> it
>> stands does not afford that option?
>>
>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>> CEO/Founder
>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>> New York, New York  10004
>> www.myblindspot.org
>> PH: 917-553-0347
>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
>> is
>> doing it."
>>
>>
>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Steve Johnson
>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 5:53 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>> Hi Sherri,
>>
>> A great segway into a lively discussion I would surmise?
>>
>> I do have a couple of thoughts.
>>
>> 1.  A number of formal schools that train animals i.e. primarily dog 
>> guides,
>>
>> have worked very hard to establish relationships with their
>> communities that they have a strong presence in, thus already allowing 
>> such
>> access.
>> 2.  Is this not potentially narrowing the coverage of the ADA by only
>> allowing "certified" individuals to have access?  This goes against the 
>> law
>> as it currently stands in specifically covering self-trained animals.
>> 3.  The whole issue of certification is an issue that has been discussed 
>> and
>> debated at nauseum, but too would potentially narrow the definition of 
>> the
>> ADA as it currently stands as those who choose to self-train are most
>> certainly treated differently in this proposed legislation.
>>
>> I can tell you as a resident of Wisconsin, allowance of service animals 
>> in
>> training to access places of public accommodation is already written into
>> our laws as of 2006 I believe, regardless, it is fairly recent.
>>
>> I believe that this Federal proposal has the
>> potential to narrow the scope of who would be allowed to access places of
>> public accommodation in that of being only certified trainers is, through 
>> my
>> understanding of the ADA, discriminatory.
>>
>> Most of our professional dog guide schools, and I will specifically focus 
>> on
>> us, do have a great relationship in the communities that they are 
>> centered
>> around.  I am wondering if this might be stemming from other service 
>> animal
>> access issues outside of the dog guide realm?  I guess there are a lot of
>> things we don't know about this legislation.
>>
>> Oh yeh, did you see that there is also an effort to repeal the provision 
>> in
>> the Air Carrier act that requires a 48 hour notice for psychiatric 
>> service
>> animals  scheduled for flights longer than 8 hours?  Another topic that 
>> has
>> potential to be rather interesting on the discussion front.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for sharing this though, I had definitely not seen it yet.
>>
>> again, this is just my immediate opinion which is always subject to 
>> change.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>> From: "Sherri" <flmom2006 at gmail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:12 PM
>> Subject: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>
>>
>>>I don't know if this has already shown up on the list. If so, forgive the
>>>forward. If not, what does everyone think?
>>>
>>> Sherri
>>> ----- Original Message ----- 
>>> From: William Stephan
>>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2009 1:52 PM
>>> Subject: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> All: It's true that not much surprises me these days in terms of what
>>> Congress does, but this is spectacularly bad at a whole bunch of
>>> levels.Hopefully, GDUIand NAGDU will do the right thing and oppose this
>>> vigorously
>>>
>>> To amend the Americans with Disabilities Act to require that the same
>>> access
>>> to transportation and public accommodations be afforded to certified
>>> trainers of service animals as is afforded... (Introduced in House)
>>>
>>> HR 4378 IH
>>>
>>> 111th CONGRESS
>>>
>>> 1st Session
>>>
>>> H. R. 4378
>>>
>>> To amend the Americans with Disabilities Act to require that the same
>>> access
>>> to transportation and public accommodations be afforded to certified
>>> trainers of service animals as is afforded under such Act to individuals
>>> with disabilities who use such service animals.
>>>
>>> IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
>>>
>>> December 16, 2009
>>>
>>> Mr. KISSELL introduced the following bill; which was referred to the
>>> Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, and in addition to the
>>> Committee on the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined 
>>> by
>>> the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall
>>> within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> A BILL
>>>
>>> To amend the Americans with Disabilities Act to require that the same
>>> access
>>> to transportation and public accommodations be afforded to certified
>>> trainers of service animals as is afforded under such Act to individuals
>>> with disabilities who use such service animals.
>>>
>>> Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United
>>> States of America in Congress assembled,
>>>
>>> SECTION 1. ACCESS TO CERTIFIED TRAINERS OF SERVICE ANIMALS.
>>>
>>> Title V of the Americans with Disabilities Act is amended by adding at 
>>> the
>>> end the following new section:
>>>
>>> `SEC. 515. RIGHTS OF CERTIFIED TRAINERS OF SERVICE ANIMALS.
>>>
>>> `(a) Protections Afforded- A licensed or certified trainer of a service
>>> animal, or a handler of such animal that has credentials issued by an
>>> accredited school for training service animals, when accompanied by such
>>> service animal, shall be afforded the same right of access to public
>>> transportation, public accommodations, and transportation services
>>> provided
>>> by private entities as is afforded under titles II and III of this Act 
>>> to
>>> individuals with disabilities who use service animals. It shall be
>>> discriminatory under this Act to afford such a trainer , when 
>>> accompanied
>>> by
>>> a service animal, with any service, facility, privilege, advantage, or
>>> accommodation that is not equal to that afforded to other individuals.
>>>
>>> `(b) Definition of Service Animal- As used in this section, the term
>>> `service animal' means a guide dog, signal dog, or other animal
>>> individually
>>> trained or being trained to provide assistance to an individual with a
>>> disability, regardless of whether such animal has been licensed or
>>> certified
>>> by a State or local government.
>>>
>>> `(c) Authority To Revise Regulations- The Secretary of Transportation 
>>> and
>>> the Attorney General shall each revise regulations issued under this Act
>>> as
>>> necessary to carry out this section.'.
>>>
>>> _____
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
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