[nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

cheryl echevarria cherylandmaxx at hotmail.com
Mon Dec 28 13:29:03 UTC 2009


Okay, okay, it is the holidays instead of us biting each others heads off, we should work together, both Marion and Albert have really good questions and answers.  Has anyone even looked at the myblindspot.org website.  Or even asked if we can work together for the same cause.

Again, Peace.  And Happy New Year to all.

Cheryl Echevarria 
Independent Contractor
Echevarriatravel.com
1-866-580-5574

Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Albert J Rizzi<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org> 
  To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org> 
  Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 8:00 AM
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


  Oh margo really,  where in any of my writings did you get that I position
  myself as a deliverer or redeemer?  I am asking questions  and working to
  grasp this new life of mine and without having taken the time as you suggest
  I do, to even find out what I have done, am doing and hope to do is a bit
  condescending and insulting to tell you the truth.  If you would like to
  continue this dialogue about my differences of opinion as they relate to
  others and yourself on this list then take it off line so we do not block up
  this list for its intended purposes. Chastise if you must but do it off
  line,

  Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  CEO/Founder
  My Blind Spot, Inc.
  90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  New York, New York  10004
  www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
  PH: 917-553-0347
  Fax: 212-858-5759
  "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
  doing it."


  Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn



  -----Original Message-----
  From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  Of Margo and Arrow
  Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:19 PM
  To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort

  Quite frankly, albert, the NFB has been in the blindness field much longer. 
  We do welcome opinions and welcome disagreements but not 
  passive-aggressiveness won't get any of us anywhere.

  while welcoming new ideas and new opinions or kind of new opinions or ideas,

  we also want to make sure to put our very long years of experience as blind 
  people into the mix.  You set yourself up as the guy who is going to deliver

  us from the woes of discrimination, and we're going to get there really 
  quickly with your methods.  Well, maybe not, maybe, but, I'd urge you, 
  albert, to observe for a bit more, ask questions, present ideas, but not 
  tout yourself as the deliverance of blind people from whatever.

  thank you.

  margo and Arrow
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
  To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
  <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 6:09 PM
  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort


  > Not passive or aggressive just my opinion which when presented with one 
  > that
  > differs from yours sets you off. Sorry for not agreeing with you and your
  > fraternal approach to things.
  >
  > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  > CEO/Founder
  > My Blind Spot, Inc.
  > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  > New York, New York  10004
  > www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
  > PH: 917-553-0347
  > Fax: 212-858-5759
  > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
  > doing it."
  >
  >
  > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >
  >
  >
  > -----Original Message-----
  > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  > Of Marion & Martin
  > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:43 PM
  > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >
  > Albert,
  >    You can take your passive agressive comments off this list!
  >
  > Marion Gwizdala
  >
  >
  >
  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  > From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>
  > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
  > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  > Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 8:24 AM
  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >
  >
  >> Thanks, just thinking when he comes north needs to shift his opinions a
  >> little.
  >>
  >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >> CEO/Founder
  >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >> New York, New York  10004
  >> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/>
  >> PH: 917-553-0347
  >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who 
  >> is
  >> doing it."
  >>
  >>
  >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>
  >>
  >>
  >> -----Original Message-----
  >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
  >> Behalf
  >> Of cheryl echevarria
  >> Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:44 AM
  >> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >> Well why not ask, I got mine from GDF, so did Albert.
  >>
  >>
  >> Cheryl Echevarria
  >> Independent Contractor
  >> Echevarriatravel.com
  >> 1-866-580-5574
  >>
  >>
  >
  Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com<mailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com%3Cmailto:Reservations at echevarriatravel.com>>
  >> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
  >> CST-1018299-10
  >>  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>  From: Marion & Martin<mailto:swampfox1833 at verizon.net<mailto:swampfox1833 at verizon.net>>
  >>  To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
  >> Users<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  >>  Sent: Sunday, December 27, 2009 5:40 AM
  >>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >>
  >>  Albert,
  >>      I am not sure of the relevance of this question. However, I got my
  >> last
  >>  guide from Southeastern Guide Dogs and am getting my next guide from the
  >>  Guide Dog Foundation.
  >>
  >>  Marion
  >>
  >>
  >>  ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>  From: "Albert J Rizzi"
  >> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
  >>  To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
  >>  <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 11:40 PM
  >>  Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>
  >>
  >>  > May I ask where you got your last guide from?
  >>  >
  >>  > Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>  > CEO/Founder
  >>  > My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>  > 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>  > New York, New York  10004
  >>  > www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
  >>  > PH: 917-553-0347
  >>  > Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>  > "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one 
  >> who
  >> is
  >>  > doing it."
  >>  >
  >>  >
  >>  > Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>  >
  >>  >
  >>  >
  >>  > -----Original Message-----
  >>  > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
  >> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
  >>  > Of Marion & Martin
  >>  > Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 10:24 PM
  >>  > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >
  >>  > Albert,
  >>  >    My assumption is that there is a school that has the ear a senator
  >> or
  >>  > representative that wants to have these protections in the ADA.
  >>  >
  >>  > Marion
  >>  >
  >>  >
  >>  > ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>  > From: "Albert J Rizzi"
  >> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
  >>  > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
  >> Users'"
  >>  > <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  > Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:35 PM
  >>  > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >
  >>  >
  >>  >> Ok, so then what is all the fuss about? If the protections are there
  >>  >> then
  >>  >> perhaps someone should let the feds know.  Over kill is still over
  >> kill.
  >>  >> In
  >>  >> your opinion which state affords the best accessibility  protections
  >> and
  >>  >> enforcements of the ADA as the same relates to the topic at hand?
  >>  >> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>  >> CEO/Founder
  >>  >> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>  >> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>  >> New York, New York  10004
  >>  >> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
  >>  >> PH: 917-553-0347
  >>  >> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>  >> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
  >> who
  >>
  >>  >> is
  >>  >> doing it."
  >>  >>
  >>  >>
  >>  >> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>  >>
  >>  >>
  >>  >>
  >>  >> -----Original Message-----
  >>  >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
  >> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >>  >> Behalf
  >>  >> Of Marion & Martin
  >>  >> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 5:19 PM
  >>  >> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>
  >>  >> Albert,
  >>  >>    Most states, including New York, have provisions for trainers of
  >>  >> service
  >>  >>
  >>  >> animals already included in their access laws.
  >>  >>
  >>  >> Fraternally yours,
  >>  >> Marion
  >>  >>
  >>  >>
  >>  >> ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>  >> From: "Albert J Rizzi"
  >> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
  >>  >> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
  >> Users'"
  >>  >> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  >> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 2:05 PM
  >>  >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>
  >>  >>
  >>  >>> True, but when and where could we as an organization facilitate that
  >> to
  >>  >>> happen on a state by state basis, when and where necessary?
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>  >>> CEO/Founder
  >>  >>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>  >>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>  >>> New York, New York  10004
  >>  >>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
  >>  >>> PH: 917-553-0347
  >>  >>> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>  >>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
  >> who
  >>  >>> is
  >>  >>> doing it."
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>> -----Original Message-----
  >>  >>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
  >> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >>  >>> Behalf
  >>  >>> Of Marion & Martin
  >>  >>> Sent: Saturday, December 26, 2009 12:25 PM
  >>  >>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
  >>  >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>> Buddy,
  >>  >>>    As I stated in my previous message, this is the difficulty I have
  >>  >>> with
  >>  >>> this proposed legislation. Once we open the proverbial can of worms
  >> to
  >>  >>> those
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>> who are not disabled, where would it lead? I think it is best to
  >> allow
  >>  >>> the
  >>  >>> states to allow trainers access, rather than to place it in a 
  >> federal
  >>  >>> law
  >>  >>> prohibiting discrimination on the basis of disability.
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>> Fraternally,
  >>  >>> Marion
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>> ----- Original Message ----- 
  >>  >>> From: "Buddy Brannan" 
  >> <buddy at brannan.name<mailto:buddy at brannan.name<mailto:buddy at brannan.name%3Cmailto:buddy at brannan.name>>>
  >>  >>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog 
  >> Users"
  >>  >>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  >>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 6:45 PM
  >>  >>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>> By the way, before we go a whole bunch further, I think it's
  >> important
  >>  >>>> that I point up a distinction here. It is not the animal which is
  >>  >>>> granted
  >>  >>>> or denied access. Not in the law and not in reality. It is, rather,
  >> the
  >>  >>>> disabled person (or, perhaps, not disabled trainer) who is allowed
  >> to
  >>
  >>  >>>> be
  >>  >>>> accompanied by a task trained service animal (or, perhaps, an 
  >> animal
  >> in
  >>  >>>> training for said service related tasks).
  >>  >>>>
  >>  >>>> That is all.
  >>  >>>> --
  >>  >>>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
  >>  >>>> Phone: (814) 860-3194 or 888-75-BUDDY
  >>  >>>>
  >>  >>>>
  >>  >>>>
  >>  >>>> On Dec 25, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Steve Johnson wrote:
  >>  >>>>
  >>  >>>>> I think it is best to keep the "companion" animal out of this mix
  >> as
  >>
  >>  >>>>> it
  >>  >>>>> is
  >>  >>>>> is defined simply as a pet.  See Delta Society.org, and
  >> JAN.wvu.edu.
  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>>> And, this everyone, is where the whole issue of abuse of such a 
  >> law
  >>  >>>>> comes
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>>> in
  >>  >>>>> to play if such an allowance were to be.  Perhaps, better
  >>  >>>>> understanding
  >>  >>>>> of
  >>  >>>>> the current laws would be the better approach than trying to fix
  >>  >>>>> something
  >>  >>>>> that there is no solid evidence that it is even broke?  Albert, 
  >> you
  >>  >>>>> refer
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>>> to
  >>  >>>>> animals being trained that are being denied access.  Please show 
  >> me
  >>  >>>>> the
  >>  >>>>> hard
  >>  >>>>> data on this.
  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>>> I'd bet you anything that most formal agencies do not have any
  >> problem
  >>  >>>>> with
  >>  >>>>> accessing places of public accommodation with dogs in training
  >> before
  >>  >>>>> they
  >>  >>>>> are matched with the new master.  All of my guides have been from
  >>  >>>>> Leader,
  >>  >>>>> and it is amazing how open the communities are in allowing access
  >> from
  >>  >>>>> everything ranging from restaurants to public transit. These 
  >> cities
  >>  >>>>> and
  >>  >>>>> towns include little ol' Rochester to Detroit.  So, where's the
  >>  >>>>> problem,
  >>  >>>>> or
  >>  >>>>> is this just another piece of make me feel good legislation that
  >> will
  >>  >>>>> hurt
  >>  >>>>> us more than it will actually help us?
  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>>> Unless one can show me that there is an actual need for this with
  >>  >>>>> something
  >>  >>>>> concrete to back it up, then our tax payer dollars are again being
  >>  >>>>> wasted
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>>> on
  >>  >>>>> a Federal legislator wasting all of our time with something
  >> frivelous
  >>  >>>>> and
  >>  >>>
  >>  >>>>> really, nothing to back it up.
  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>>> again, JMO
  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Albert J Rizzi"
  >>  >>>>> <albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org<mailto:albert at myblindspot.org%3Cmailto:albert at myblindspot.org>>>
  >>  >>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
  >> Users'"
  >>  >>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  >>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 1:37 PM
  >>  >>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> I would think then we need to qualify and quantify the verbiage
  >>  >>>>>> which
  >>  >>>>>> is
  >>  >>>>>> being considered for amendment because all to often trainers of
  >>  >>>>>> guides
  >>  >>>>>> are
  >>  >>>>>> being denied access.  What would be a suitable wording which 
  >> would
  >> 1.
  >>  >>>>>> protect and ensure that trainers of service animals are included
  >> in
  >>  >>>>>> the
  >>  >>>>>> a.d.a., which as you  yourself presented, can be interpreted to
  >>  >>>>>> prevent
  >>  >>>>>> such
  >>  >>>>>> access unless and until the service animal is being used by a
  >> person
  >>  >>>>>> using
  >>  >>>>>> the same for the intended purpose?  And what of our peers who use
  >>  >>>>>> companions
  >>  >>>>>> for a diagnosable  condition where a companion animal/service
  >> animal
  >>  >>>>>> is
  >>  >>>>>> needed? The manner of the wording at present does not seem to
  >> afford
  >>  >>>>>> them
  >>  >>>>>> the same protections, or do they?  I think that trainers should 
  >> be
  >>  >>>>>> held
  >>  >>>>>> to
  >>  >>>>>> a
  >>  >>>>>> higher measure so people like many of those on this list who got
  >> bum
  >>  >>>>>> dogs
  >>  >>>>>> do
  >>  >>>>>> not live through that pain again.  there is something to say for
  >> the
  >>  >>>>>> consideration of certification  provided that a standard  of
  >> national
  >>  >>>>>> proportions  could be meaningful.
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
  >>  >>>>>> CEO/Founder
  >>  >>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
  >>  >>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
  >>  >>>>>> New York, New York  10004
  >>  >>>>>> www.myblindspot.org<http://www.myblindspot.org/<http://www.myblindspot.org%3chttp//www.myblindspot.org/>>
  >>  >>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
  >>  >>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
  >>  >>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the
  >> one
  >>  >>>>>> who
  >>  >>>>>> is
  >>  >>>>>> doing it."
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
  >>  >>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org>>
  >> [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
  >>  >>>>>> Behalf
  >>  >>>>>> Of Steve Johnson
  >>  >>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 2:14 PM
  >>  >>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog 
  >> Users
  >>  >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> Hi Cindy,
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> PWD = People or Persons with disabilities.
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> I think that the points being made are very strong, and the
  >>  >>>>>> certification
  >>  >>>>>> issue does not broaden as Albert eluded to, but does indeed
  >> restrict
  >>  >>>>>> the
  >>  >>>>>> definition of who who could eventually access a place of public
  >>  >>>>>> accommodation.
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> So, if only a certified trainer, which the points are
  >> well-expressed
  >>  >>>>>> on
  >>  >>>>>> this, is allowed to access a place of public accommodation, then
  >>  >>>>>> would'nt
  >>  >>>>>> this essentially mean that unless an animal trained by a 
  >> certified
  >>  >>>>>> entity
  >>  >>>>>> could only then access a place of public accommodation?
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> There are a lot of frauds out there, and again we are speaking
  >> about
  >>  >>>>>> places
  >>  >>>>>> of public accommodation.  The fair housing amendments act already
  >>  >>>>>> provides
  >>  >>>>>> for any person to have an emotional support, or even companion
  >>  >>>>>> animals
  >>  >>>>>> in
  >>  >>>>>> Federal assisted housing, and this can also move into private
  >> housing
  >>  >>>>>> where
  >>  >>>>>> emotional support animals can be granted access through a request
  >> for
  >>  >>>>>> reasonable accommodation.  The underlying problem is that these
  >> are
  >>  >>>>>> not
  >>  >>>>>> highly trained animals that are specifically trained to provide a
  >>  >>>>>> functional
  >>  >>>>>> support/service for the individual whether it be through a
  >>  >>>>>> professional
  >>  >>>>>> entity or an individual who chooses to self-train.
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> I have to disagree with Albert in that his comment that this 
  >> would
  >>  >>>>>> expand
  >>  >>>>>> the coverage of access as it clearly discriminates against those
  >> who
  >>  >>>>>> self-train and again, I will point out that this language is
  >>  >>>>>> specifically
  >>  >>>>>> stated in the ADA.
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> Furthermore, if the word certification were deleted from this,
  >> then
  >>
  >>  >>>>>> we
  >>  >>>>>> are
  >>  >>>>>> where we are at now, and is this a bad thing?
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> While this proposed legislation specifically addresses service
  >>  >>>>>> animals,
  >>  >>>>>> the
  >>  >>>>>> problem herein is that it creates this slippery slope that I
  >> mention
  >>  >>>>>> in
  >>  >>>>>> that
  >>  >>>>>> there will be a push like you have never seen by other groups to
  >>  >>>>>> expand
  >>  >>>>>> and
  >>  >>>>>> include emotional support, therapy, and companion animals.  Mark
  >> my
  >>  >>>>>> word.
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> Let's go back to the intent of the ADA, and you will further
  >>  >>>>>> understand
  >>  >>>>>> that
  >>  >>>>>> this narrows, not expands as these other types of animals are not
  >>  >>>>>> providing
  >>  >>>>>> a service.  A support yes, a service no.
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> Steve
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy Ray"
  >> <cindyray at qwest.net<mailto:cindyray at qwest.net<mailto:cindyray at qwest.net%3Cmailto:cindyray at qwest.net>>>
  >>  >>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
  >> Users"
  >>  >>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  >>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:20 PM
  >>  >>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> What is PWD?
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> And you make a good point. Who certifies? If the schools where
  >> the
  >>  >>>>>>> people
  >>  >>>>>>> train certify them, then what about these independents,
  >> particularly
  >>  >>>>>>> those
  >>  >>>>>>> who train their own dogs. And, of course, NAC was a 
  >> certification
  >>  >>>>>>> outfit
  >>  >>>>>>> that certified places, but any of us who knows the history of 
  >> NAC
  >>  >>>>>>> knows
  >>  >>>>>>> what
  >>  >>>>>>> certification meant for agencies and schools serving the bolind.
  >> So
  >>  >>>>>>> why
  >>  >>>>>>> bother if you can't certify better than that? Suppose the Guide
  >> Dog
  >>  >>>>>>> School
  >>  >>>>>>> Association, whose official name I don't remember, certified
  >>  >>>>>>> trainers?
  >>  >>>>>>> Would
  >>  >>>>>>> they be willing to certify an independent, and would such a
  >> person
  >>
  >>  >>>>>>> be
  >>  >>>>>>> willing to do that (be certified by such a certifying body?)
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> CL
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Pawpower Pack"
  >>  >>>>>>> <pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
  >> Users"
  >>  >>>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> Sent: Friday, December 25, 2009 12:15 PM
  >>  >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Fw: [buddy-l] A very bad legislative effort
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> and who certifies the trainers?
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> There is no certifying body for dog trainers.  If I want to call
  >>  >>>>>>> myself a dog trainer, I can.  There are outfits like CPDT who 
  >> are
  >>  >>>>>>> trying to certify pet dog trainers but it's all voluntary.  The
  >>  >>>>>>> guide
  >>  >>>>>>> and service dogs, with the exception of California, may 
  >> "certify"
  >>  >>>>>>> their trainers but it's about as valuable as the paper it's
  >> printed
  >>  >>>>>>> on.
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> California "certifies" it's trainers but frankly, I would hate 
  >> to
  >>  >>>>>>> see
  >>  >>>>>>> an outfit like the California guide dog board become the norm.
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> I also think it's a step awy from certifying trainers to
  >> certifying
  >>  >>>>>>> PWD.
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
  >>  >>>>>>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
  >>  >>>>>>> "Struggle is a never ending process. Freedom is never really 
  >> won,
  >>  >>>>>>> you
  >>  >>>>>>> earn it and win it in every generation."
  >>  >>>>>>> -- Coretta Scott King
  >>  >>>>>>> pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com<mailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com%3Cmailto:pawpower4me at gmail.com>>
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> Windows Live Only:
  >> Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com<mailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com%3Cmailto:Brisomania at hotmail.com>>
  >>  >>>>>>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>  >>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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  >>  >>>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org<mailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org%3Cmailto:nagdu at nfbnet.org>>
  >>  >>>>>>>
  >>
  >
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  >> g/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org>
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  >>  >>>>>>>
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  >> t>
  >>  >>>>>> urytel.net
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  >
  ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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  >> Date:
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  >> t>
  >>  >>> urytel.net
  >>  >>>>>>
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  >>  >>>>>
  >>  >>>
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  >>  >>>>
  >>  >>>>
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  >> o>
  >>  >>> n.net
  >>  >>>
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  >> .
  >>  >>> org
  >>  >>>
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  >> o>
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  >> o>
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