[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog policy does not discriminate

Sat Feb 21 00:42:25 UTC 2009

Oh, I love NFB's philosophy, I love the structured discovery method, I love 
NFB.  that does not mean I agree with everything NFB does just as I don't 
always agree with family, friends, and so on, and that's okay and the 
centers' policy concerning guide dogs is one I do not agree with as it is 
presented today.  I hope they ease up a bit at some point.

margo and Elmo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Hope Paulos" <hope.paulos at maine.edu>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>; <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 7:01 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guidedog policy does 
not discriminate

> margo! Ithink you're right on! I could not agree more! I've been avoiding 
> takingtraining at the NFB centers because I'mn willingffsacrifice the use 
> of mydogddI like the structured discovery method of teaching that the 
> centers use, but they should maketheir programs more individualized.  If I 
> use a dog, it's likely I would not want to receive o and m training with 
> the cane.  Since I've received approximately 22 years of it andonly 4 
> years with my guide.  A college is individualized- yeseay hfftake certain 
> classes in order to obtain a particularmajor, but you can choose the 
> major.
> Just mzopinion.
> Hope and Beignet
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Margo and Elmo" <margo.downey at verizon.net
>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"<nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:59:09 -0500
>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept.  for Blind's guidedog
> policy does not discriminate
>
>>But, one must take each person as an individual.  if a person
> already  is
>>willing to use a cane and it's noted that he or she uses the cane
> and he or
>>she can also use a guide dog, then he or she should use the guide
> dog if
>>that is her or his preferred method of travel.
>
>>I think our centers would do well to be more flexible and not try
> to mold
>>everyone into one mold.
>
>>margo and Elmo
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "JULIE PHILLIPSON" <jbrew48 at verizon.net
>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
>><nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 11:18 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept.  for Blind's guide dog
> policy does
>>not discriminate
>
>
>>> Angie I'll take a shot at this although I might be being too
> brave to do
>>> so!
>>> Anything that helps by visual means is being referred to as a
> visual aid,
>>> so that could be a machine like a CCTV a magnifying device or a
> human
>>> sighted guide and in this case it is a guide dog because your
> dog is
>>> helping you by using his her ability to see.
>>> What the NFB centers are doing is eliminating help from any
> other visual
>>> means and making you learn to tune into your own abilities to
> gather the
>>> same kinds of information and learn to trust and depend on
> yourself and
>>> only yourself without the confusion of in adequate vision.  .
>>> When someone is first learning or relearning travel skills they
> are
>>> learning much more than just traveling with a cane.  they are
> also building
>>> and strengthening confidence and self respect.  They discover
> that they
>>> have regained independent mobility, and eventually are still
> able to do
>>> all the things they could do before losing vision.  Once someone
> has
>>> established that sense of confidence and can travel competently,
> on an
>>> emotional level you have proved to yourself that you can
> accomplish what
>>> ever you want to do.  It didn't just happen in a week or a month
> it took
>>> lots of time to carefully build that confidence and trust in
> yourself.
>>> For example think of something that you feel you are really good
> at, and
>>> think about what you had to do to achieve that competence.  How
> did you
>>> feel about yourself once you reached your goal?  Pride, ability
> to move on
>>> to accomplishing other things? You could even compare it to
> graduating
>>> from school.  You don't just become a psychologist, or a lawyer
> in a short
>>> period of time.  You had to work at it and practice it, and do
> it often
>>> like learning to ride a bike or play an instrument.  The more
> you did it
>>> the better you got at it right?
>>> It is the same with learning to do anything even to use a cane
> or a guide
>>> dog.  When you are learning to use a cane you might stubble on
> an uneven
>>> surface or miss a step but I'll bet you just learned how not to
> do it
>>> again! You notice the differences in the sound that your cane
> makes and
>>> you start being more careful paying attention to traffic sounds
> as you
>>> approach the corner.  When you use a dog and skip the cane
> altogether you
>>> figure oh my dog will take care of it and stop when I get to the
> corner so
>>> I don't need to think about it right?  You don't give yourself
> the chance
>>> to develop your own awareness to the environment.  You learned
> to be
>>> overly dependent on your dog, not working as a team, and putting
> way too
>>> much pressure and stress on the dog.  When you miss that step
> you don't
>>> take responsibility for it being your own mistake, no you
> correct the dog
>>> and blame it on him or her!  By skipping the learning to use a
> cane step
>>> you are cheating yourself and being unfare to the dog.
>>> When you get a dog for the first time you didn't all of a sudden
> know how
>>> to do it perfectly, in fact it takes several weeks of training
> and then
>>> sometimes months after that to feel comfortable and trust in
> your dog, but
>>> it still took a lot of hard work to accomplish that goal.
>
>>> Now the use of sleep shades is a whole other issue.  Like I said
> before
>>> you are eliminating the confusion of poor vision and tuning into
> your
>>> other senses.  If someone has residual vision I can't tell you
> how many
>>> times I have thought I knew what I was seeing only to find out
> it wasn't
>>> at all what I thought it was.  Is that a pot hole or just a dark
> patch of
>>> blacktop coming up?  Is that door open or is it a glass door
> that is
>>> closed.  How long am I going to feel around looking for the door
> handle or
>>> visually find the door bell.  Once you start learning to do
> these kinds of
>>> things without the help of poor vision it becomes much simpler.
> I think
>>> this is probably hard for a congenitally blind person to
> understand
>>> because it has simply never been in their experience.  I have
> never been
>>> trained or used sleep shades and I don't think I would ever like
> to.  What
>>> I have done many times is closed my eyes and trusted my other
> senses to
>>> figure something out.  That is a hard thing to do, and most of
> us would
>>> not want to or perhaps even be able to do it voluntarily.  Most
> of us
>>> blind and visually impaired folks have simply never gotten
> adequate
>>> mobility training.  There is a shortage of mobility instructors
> and there
>>> is neither the time or money to give mobility the time it
> deserves.
>>> Somehow some of us get good at it on our own or perhaps got
> lucky and did
>>> have a good mobility instructor who was able to teach something
> and
>>> managed to somehow give you the confidence to transfer those
> skills to
>>> other situations, but many times that just doesn't happen for
> lots of
>>> reasons.  OK let me know how well I have explained it or how
> much I've
>>> screwed up! (grin)
>>> Julie Phillipson
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 6:56 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept.  for Blind's guide dog
> policy does
>>> not discriminate
>
>
>>>> Would someone please explain this nonstandard use of the term
> "visual
>>>> aid" to me? My dog is not a powerpoint presentation.
>
>>>> Thanks,
>
>>>> Angie
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>>>
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