[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does not discriminate

Sun Feb 22 00:41:51 UTC 2009

but again you are blind and have always been blind.

Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Margo and Elmo" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:05 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does not 
discriminate

> and my guide dog doesn't hide my blindness either.
>
> I still have to know where I'm going.  I still go places.
>
> margo and Elmo
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does 
> not
> discriminate
>
>
>> Just that, it undeniably says I am blind and I can't and won't hide it.
>> Some people want to carry a folding cane and put it away whenever
>> possible.  The long white cane makes that not possible.  For many people
>> carrying that cane is tied to their own self acceptance of their
>> blindness.
>>
>> Dave
>>
>> At 10:08 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
>>>What exactly do you mean by "the cane is the ultimate symbol of
>>>blindness"?
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:05 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does
>>>not
>>>discriminate
>>>
>>>
>>>Alysha:
>>>
>>>As I have tried to say in another message, cane travel at NFB centers
>>>is there in part to accomplish other goals besides just literally
>>>teaching cane travel.  The cane is the ultimate symbol of blindness,
>>>and learning to carry it with confidence is where the rubber hits the
>>>road for most newly blind persons.
>>>
>>>Most people think the dog does more than he/she does, but they think
>>>it nonetheless.  I suspect some blind persons attribute more to the
>>>dog then they should too.  So, they wouldn't be developing confidence
>>>in their own skills.
>>>
>>>People from the dog community should come together and start a
>>>dog-oriented center I think!
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>
>>>At 07:07 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
>>> >As others have mentioned in their posts, I think we need to consider
>>> >that much more than just cane travel is offered at training centers.
>>> >So say there's a guide dog user who is comfortable with mobility but
>>> >who needs some work on cooking or technology or braille. Then, there
>>> >doesn't seem to be a program out there this person could attend to
>>> >learn the necessary skills without risking damage to their
>>> >relationship with their dog. I do think that cane travel is quite
>>> >important and that all guide dog users should be comfortable with
>>> >it, but it seems like all the training centers I've heard about
>>> >mandate it as the only means of mobility to be used during the time
>>> >one is there. So I suppose I'm wondering why there are no programs
>>> >(that I know of) that accommodate the potential needs of guide dog
>>> >users instead of expecting them to essentially temporarily give up
>>> >their chosen mobility aid. The important thing is that we can get
>>> >around independently, not whether we do so with a dog or a cane. Why
>>> >is it that people seem to link mobility classes only with cane
>>> >travel? I think a guide dog user could still benefit from mobility
>>> >lessons that aren't focused on the training of the dog. The problem
>>> >solving and orientation skills taught in good mobility programs are
>>> >useful to you no matter what mobility aid you use. So I think it is
>>> >fair for a program to demand competency with a cane, but I do not
>>> >think that it is right to restrict the choices of guide dog users to
>>> >either doing without training in the myriad of skills taught at
>>> >centers or giving up the use of their dogs for a significant
>>> >fraction of the day.
>>> >
>>> >Alysha
>>> >
>>> >_______________________________________________
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>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
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>>
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