[nagdu] NFB's view on guide dogs

Sun Feb 22 02:50:13 UTC 2009

Very good Marion, thank you. I didn't think that was right either. There are 
other lists where they can recruit ACB members if they are in such need of 
membership. I don't think it would be right for us to go on their lists and 
recruit members to the NFB, and I don't think it's right for them to do it 
on our lists either.

Thanks.
Check out the tribute page I created for my guide dog Vanda at:
www.myspace.com/vandaandchasity
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Or by phone at: (559) 553-4627
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marion & Martin" <swampfox1833 at verizon.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:16 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] NFB's view on guide dogs

> Ed,
>    I question why you would still want to be a part of the NAGDU list 
> while urging people to join another organization whose views are not only 
> very different than the NFb but who actively opposes NFB initiatives just 
> because they are NFB initiatives. I don't appreciate you trying to recruit 
> members for the American Council of the Blind on this list. Fortunately, 
> Dan is a strong Federationist who knows that he can voice his differences 
> of opinion without being chastized for having his own opinion, something 
> the ACB contends cannot be done in the Federation. You are welcome to 
> participate in this list, but you are not welcome to recruit from it.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ed and Toni Eames" <eeames at csufresno.edu>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>; <gdui-friends at yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 8:31 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] NFB's view on guide dogs
>
>
>> Dear Dan,
>>
>> You are a refreshing voice in NAGDU.  Ed and I were NFB members for 
>> almost 15 years.  We did our best to change attitudes about guide dogs, 
>> but when the resolution came up to defend the Iowa Department for the 
>> Blind, we had to leave, publicly decrying NFB's position.
>>
>> Dan, we suggest you follow our lead and become active in GDUI.  At least 
>> we know it is an organization promoting the guide dog blind person bond. 
>> Stefanie wanted Braille and computer lessons, not o&m instructions.  What 
>> a travesty that NAGDU defends NFB!!
>>
>> Toni and Ed Eames
>>
>> At 11:14 AM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
>>>The Iowa Center, I presume, is in the United States and there is an ADA 
>>>and
>>>state laws here, it's not an island unto itself.
>>>
>>>If the Iowa Center were called the Iowa Cane Center, and only cane 
>>>training
>>>and no other skill were offered, than maybe I could see it.  Still I 
>>>would
>>>advocate for the dog being allowed to accompany the individual on the
>>>premises.
>>>
>>>Laws aren't just made for the rest of the world, blind training centers 
>>>must
>>>abide by them, too.
>>>
>>>Referring to the dog as a visual aid  is misleading.  Obviously, the dog
>>>sees, if the dogs were b lined we probably wouldn't be using them--smile.
>>>Every guide dog program teaches us that we're supposed to give commands 
>>>to
>>>our dogs, I assume.
>>>
>>>The guide dog issue, or rather what I perceive the NFB leadership's 
>>>approach
>>>to the guide dog issue, is the one serious divergence I have with the
>>>Federation.  This is from someone who got involved when he was a 
>>>teen-ager.
>>>
>>>Well, also I'm not favorably inclined to the NFB's position on audible
>>>pedestrian signals, also, but that's another subject.
>>>
>>>The obsession with white cane travel and the tacit implication that those
>>>who don't use a cane are somehow less capable, together with what I've 
>>>seen
>>>as a tendency to discourage people from saying anything glowing about the
>>>dog while glorifying the cane doesn't sit well with me.
>>>
>>>The guide dog and the cane are different mobility aids.  I personally
>>>believe the dog to be superior for my situation and my type of travel,
>>>There are things I can do easily with a dog that I would be hard-pressed 
>>>to
>>>do with a cane, such as cross streets in a straight  line.
>>>Anyway, I've gone a bit beyond the question you posed, Rebecca.  My short
>>>answer is that, as I said state rehab centers and even NFB centers 
>>>should,
>>>and in my opinion, must accommodate access with a guide dog.  I view it 
>>>as
>>>an access issue and access denial.  Could it be  that some people 
>>>discourage
>>>the use of guide dogs because they, the dogs,  see and for no other 
>>>reason?
>>>I'm not sure that's true, but I'm posing the question to stir up the pot 
>>>a
>>>bit.
>>>My personal approach to life isn't to prove that I'm able to do things 
>>>all
>>>the time independently, I mean without help.
>>>
>>>I would say that as an adult, I do have some idea of what my skills are 
>>>and
>>>if I felt my cane skills are adequate, wanted to work my dog, and 
>>>received a
>>>closed-minded  access denial, I would be loathe to patronize such a 
>>>program.
>>>What would happen if I just wanted to attend such a program, for say, my
>>>computer skills?
>>>
>>>Now, for the record, nothing in this post is meant to cast aspersions on 
>>>any
>>>of my list friends, these are just my opinions, strongly held ones, of
>>>course.
>>>
>>>Cordially,
>>>
>>>Dan W.
>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>nagdu mailing list
>>>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for 
>>>nagdu:
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>>
>>
>>
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>
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