[nagdu] Juryfinds IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate

Margo and Elmo margo.downey at verizon.net
Sun Feb 22 02:50:56 UTC 2009 

I'm not clear either.  Are the dogs in a room by themselves all the time 
except when you take them out or interact with them at breaks and at lunch?

Margo andElmo
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:45 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Juryfinds 
IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoesnotdiscriminate


> But wait, I'm still not clear, are the dogs in the building where you have
> classes, or where?
>
> Cordially,
>
> Dan W.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Carlos J montas
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 6:36 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu]Juryfinds IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
> notdiscriminate
>
> Well the dogs are tied down and each of us is responsible for taking them
> out. there are not many issues. All of the dogs are well behaved.-----
> Original Message -----
> From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 4:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Juryfinds IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
> notdiscriminate
>
>
>> Hi Carlos,
>>
>> Are the dogs supervised at all? As much detail as you feel comfortable
>> giving would be greatly appreciated.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Angie
>>
>> On Sat, 21 Feb 2009 15:23:37 -0600, Carlos J montas wrote:
>>
>>>Well like you said, we all have are opinions. As for your question
>>>about the dogs the dogs are kept in a room through out the day. Write
>>>me off list if you have any other questions.
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 10:00 AM
>>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IADept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
>>>notdiscriminate
>>
>>
>>>> Hi, Carlos.
>>>>
>>>> I'll certainly write you off   list as you seem like a nice person to
>>>> get
>>>> to
>>>> know,  but I'm not sure I understood your answer.  Where is the dog 
>>>> when
>>>> you're in class, somewhere in the building, at your apartment, or 
>>>> where?
>>>>
>>>> I remember you now, there was an article about you a few years ago in
>>>> the
>>>> Florida Focus, Florida NFB newsletter, right?
>>>>
>>>> Well, I have to say honestly that that policy would not be satisfactory
>>>> for
>>>> me as a guide dog user whether a state president who's a guide dog user
>>>> or
>>>> anyone else told me they approve it--grin.
>>>>
>>>> I personally feel I know my own mind and what skills I need working on.
>>>> I remember hearing Peggy Elliot at the 1996 convention saying that the
>>>> "dog
>>>> schools" maybe should have shorter programs.  Then what about the
>>>> Centers?--smile.  Six to nine months is a damned long time.
>>>>
>>>> Remember, I'm certainly not trying to fight with you but these are my
>>>> opinions.
>>>> I'm often seen how E-mail makes things sound harsher than people mean
>>>> their
>>>> statements to sound.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cordially,
>>>>
>>>> Dan W. and the hilarious hounds
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Carlos J montas
>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 9:30 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept.forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
>>>> notdiscriminate
>>>>
>>>> Good morning to you Dan, and listers. When the dog is not being used
>>>> during
>>>> the day, my dog gets to interact with three other guide dogs. During 
>>>> are
>>>> brakes, and lunch time, we take the dogs out. We also work are dogs on
>>>> weekends and at night. It has not been a problem for me or for the
>>>> Florida
>>>> president Kathy Davis  who is also a guide dog user. My issue is that I
>>>> am
>>>> not going to let the fact that I have a guide dog stop me from 
>>>> attending
>>>> one
>>>> of the best rehabilitation centers around the country. I believe that
>>>> there
>>>> was a time where may be some folks in the nfb did not understand how
>>>> guide
>>>> dogs work. How ever I believe that the president of nagdu and the rest
>>>> of
>>>> us
>>>> are working to change that perception. Let me also point out that Pam
>>>> Allen
>>>> who is on the National board, and the executive director of the
>>>> Louisiana
>>>> center for the blind is also a former guide dog user. She understands
>>>> the
>>>> issues that a person entering the program may go through. How ever my
>>>> experience has been invaluable. I have not just learned about blindness
>>>> but
>>>> I have learned about life in general, and about having high 
>>>> expectations
>>>> for
>>>> my self at all times.If any one would like to write to me off list, my
>>>> email
>>>> is carlos.montas at gmail.com Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 3:55 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. forBlind'sguidedogpolicydoes
>>>> notdiscriminate
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> First of all, good to have you here, Carlos.
>>>>>
>>>>> My name is Dan and I'm from Florida.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, if you can't use the dog from eight to five what on earth do you
>>>>> do with your pup during that time?
>>>>> It sounds like the Louisiana Center's policy hasn't changed from that
>>>>> of
>>>>> 12
>>>>> years ago when I was interested in going there.  It's not a policy I
>>>>> would like  very much...but, oh well.
>>>>> Explain, please, someone, structured discovery in plain English--grin.
>>>>>
>>>>> So, good to meet you and hope you enjoy the list as I don't remember
>>>>> seeing you before.
>>>>>
>>>>> Dan W. and the hilarious hounds
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf Of Carlos J montas
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 1:55 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedogpolicydoes
>>>>> notdiscriminate
>>>>>
>>>>> Good afternoon, my name is Carlos J montas. I am a guide dog user, and
>>>>> I am also currently in training at the Louisiana center for the blind.
>>>>> The policy is that students who have guide dogs may not use them
>>>>> during the day that is from 8:00 to 5:00. I have not had any issues
>>>>> while attending the Louisiana center for the blind when it pertains to
>>>>> Gide dogs. The fact of the matter is that it is not possible to learn
>>>>> the skills of cane travel while using the dog. I would say that it has
>>>>> been my experience that because of my training, in structured
>>>>> discovery I have become a better guide dog user.
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, February 20, 2009 10:54 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's
>>>>> guidedogpolicydoes notdiscriminate
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes that is true that if you are at a center, an NFB center, you can
>>>>>> not use your dog during class. Again I do not know this for the truth
>>>>>> but during the day, it can be used but not during O&M training.
>>>>>> Nothing is wrong with a person needing to get better travel skills. I
>>>>>> guess it is more of the wording that I do not agree with. And if this
>>>>>> student is staying at the rehab center, then why would she not be
>>>>>> able to use her dog after class?
>>>>>> Marsha
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>>> Behalf Of Meleah H. Jensen
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 10:39 PM
>>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind's guide
>>>>>> dogpolicydoes notdiscriminate
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Marcia and List,
>>>>>> I can't speak for the other NFB centers, but I know that if you have
>>>>>> a dog and are an LCB student you may not work your dog during class
>>>>>> time. I see nothing wrong with the decision other than perhaps the
>>>>>> way
>>>>> it's worded.
>>>>>> Going to a center and demanding to use my dog wouldn't be any more
>>>>>> acceptable than me going to a dog school and demanding to use my cane
>>>>>> once I've received my dog.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those are just my thoughts... I'll step down off my soap box now
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Meleah with Seeing Eye Dog Calvin
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>> i
>>>>>> ndsey%
>>>>>> 40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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