[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. forBlind'sguidedog policy does notdiscriminate

Sun Feb 22 07:57:54 UTC 2009

Julie,
For my 32 years of life, I have had varying degrees of vision. Being born
visually impaired, then losing my vision very early in age, but with surgery
was given it back, and then that process started all over again. My poor
vision never lasted long, and then I was able to see. Unlike most I fought
hard to keep my vision, at a very high risk. I have only been totally blind
for a few years. So in regards to you thinking I have been blind for a long
time has no relevance to my acceptance. I was taught blindness skills very
early in age, at that point thinking I would never need them, and in fact I
remember clearly that I hated learning Braille and how to use a cane. 

I think some people who go to rehab centers are newly blinded, but there is
a handful who have been blind all there life too, who did not get certainly
little skills that they need. 

I think there is some truth to the matter that it depends on the time, but
it also does not matter the time. Acceptance is on an individual basis, and
like I said before with all the training, with all the skills, it still
musts come with in, a person must want it themselves.
Just my thoughts,
marsha

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of JULIE PHILLIPSON
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 7:37 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. forBlind'sguidedog policy does
notdiscriminate

The difference is Marsha that you have been blind for a long time and have 
adjusted to it and you have know problems with accepting that you are blind.

Many people going through rehab. for the first time and hopefully the only 
time are newly blind.  There is a lot of emotional things to adjust to and 
the cane is the most obvious simple that a person is blind or visually 
impaired.  Getting over that identity hump is significant.
Julie Phillipson
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marsha" <queen.marsha.lindsey at gmail.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 5:06 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does 
notdiscriminate

>I think your mixing up the difference between a persons self image about
> them selves being blind, and there choice to use a folding cane or a
> straight cane. Perhaps a person who is completely okay with there 
> blindness
> uses a folding cane, does that mean they are not what they think as okay
> with there blindness? I think not, it is a preference. I know I like using

> a
> folding cane, for the fact that it is easier to put away and does not take
> up as much room. But it has NOTHING to do with my self image as a blind
> person, or as a 5'4 foot tall person, or that I have brown hair, or any
> thing. It is a choice, that is all. Just like us that use guide dogs, that
> is a preference.
>
> JMHO
> Marsha
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of David Andrews
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does 
> not
> discriminate
>
> Just that, it undeniably says I am blind and I can't and won't hide
> it.  Some people want to carry a folding cane and put it away
> whenever possible.  The long white cane makes that not possible.  For
> many people carrying that cane is tied to their own self acceptance
> of their blindness.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:08 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
>>What exactly do you mean by "the cane is the ultimate symbol of 
>>blindness"?
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:05 AM
>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does
> not
>>discriminate
>>
>>
>>Alysha:
>>
>>As I have tried to say in another message, cane travel at NFB centers
>>is there in part to accomplish other goals besides just literally
>>teaching cane travel.  The cane is the ultimate symbol of blindness,
>>and learning to carry it with confidence is where the rubber hits the
>>road for most newly blind persons.
>>
>>Most people think the dog does more than he/she does, but they think
>>it nonetheless.  I suspect some blind persons attribute more to the
>>dog then they should too.  So, they wouldn't be developing confidence
>>in their own skills.
>>
>>People from the dog community should come together and start a
>>dog-oriented center I think!
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>At 07:07 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
>> >As others have mentioned in their posts, I think we need to consider
>> >that much more than just cane travel is offered at training centers.
>> >So say there's a guide dog user who is comfortable with mobility but
>> >who needs some work on cooking or technology or braille. Then, there
>> >doesn't seem to be a program out there this person could attend to
>> >learn the necessary skills without risking damage to their
>> >relationship with their dog. I do think that cane travel is quite
>> >important and that all guide dog users should be comfortable with
>> >it, but it seems like all the training centers I've heard about
>> >mandate it as the only means of mobility to be used during the time
>> >one is there. So I suppose I'm wondering why there are no programs
>> >(that I know of) that accommodate the potential needs of guide dog
>> >users instead of expecting them to essentially temporarily give up
>> >their chosen mobility aid. The important thing is that we can get
>> >around independently, not whether we do so with a dog or a cane. Why
>> >is it that people seem to link mobility classes only with cane
>> >travel? I think a guide dog user could still benefit from mobility
>> >lessons that aren't focused on the training of the dog. The problem
>> >solving and orientation skills taught in good mobility programs are
>> >useful to you no matter what mobility aid you use. So I think it is
>> >fair for a program to demand competency with a cane, but I do not
>> >think that it is right to restrict the choices of guide dog users to
>> >either doing without training in the myriad of skills taught at
>> >centers or giving up the use of their dogs for a significant
>> >fraction of the day.
>> >
>> >Alysha
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
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