[nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept.forBlind'sguidedog policy does notdiscriminate

Nicole B. Torcolini ntorcolini at wavecable.com
Tue Feb 24 02:53:57 UTC 2009


Lol, yes, that energy has to go somewhere. And if it's not into working, it 
can sometimes be into getting into trouble.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Garry and Joy Relton" <relton30857 at cox.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept.forBlind'sguidedog policy does 
notdiscriminate


I am sure that Belle I needed a refresher course or two. Which I did. She is
very smart and a bit mischievous if she doesn't get to do all the work that
she wants.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion & Martin
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 5:04 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. forBlind'sguidedog policy does
notdiscriminate


Joy,
    Like you, I injured myself in January of 1990 and spent the next five
months in the hospital and, after my rlease, in a wheelchair. When I picked
up my dogs harness for the first time after that, he guided me as if we had
just worked yesterday!

Marion Gwizdala



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Garry and Joy Relton" <relton30857 at cox.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, February 23, 2009 1:07 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy does
notdiscriminate


> Interesting comments. Certainly, the cane is a symbol of independence
> for blind people. The public sees a blind person using a cane and sees
> independence. I believe that the same is true of a blind person using
> a dog. I remind folks that there are blind people who are not
> comfortable being seen reading braille in public. We as a society need
> to move beyond stereotypes of all kinds, including assumptions about
> dog guides.
>
> I will share that I have learned personally that a dog will not loose
> their
> guiding skills in a month or two of not being used. This happened to me a
> few years ago when I had an aneurism burst in my brain. I was hospitalized
> in the Nero Intensive Care Unit for nearly a month and subsequently in a
> rehab hospital. My dog was brought to me once I was in the rehab hospital
> to
> visit but I couldn't really use her until I was back at home. This was due
> to my physical strength, balance and ability to understand what was going
> on
> around me. My faithful pup picked up where we left off without any
> problems.
> Fortunately, my family kept her behavior consistent with what I expect and
> took her on plenty of walks. My family situation is such that I could go
> for
> a short training session at a center without my dog but I definitely would
> not go for six months without her. Having said all that, the arrangements
> of
> having the dog in a room during classes would not impair the average dog's
> ability to work later in the day after class. I would be concerned about
> my
> dog getting into some bad habits and chewing but, as I understand it,
> users
> can check on their dogs periodically.  My cane technique isn't perfect but

> I
> can, and do use it. Last summer, as a celebration of my rehabilitation my
> husband and I went to Jamaica where dogs cannot go without quarantine. For
> those ten days I used my cane. In situations where I don't take my dog I
> bring my cane and use it. I would, and did use my cane when I went on a
> date. I use my cane even when I go sighted guide, which is rare. At a
> minimum, when on a date, I wouldn't want to have to stumble around to find
> my way in a bathroom.
>
> Having said all that, I have turned down opportunities to go to
> training centers because I wasn't able to choose what classes I
> attended. This hasn't been a problem because I obtained the training I
> wanted through other means.
>
> Sorry, for the lengthy post.
>
> Joy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of David Andrews
> Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 11:29 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy
> does
> not
> discriminate
>
>
> Just that, it undeniably says I am blind and I can't and won't hide
> it.  Some people want to carry a folding cane and put it away whenever
> possible.  The long white cane makes that not possible.  For many
> people carrying that cane is tied to their own self acceptance of
> their blindness.
>
> Dave
>
> At 10:08 AM 2/21/2009, you wrote:
>>What exactly do you mean by "the cane is the ultimate symbol of
>>blindness"?
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "David Andrews" <dandrews at visi.com>
>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>Sent: Saturday, February 21, 2009 3:05 AM
>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] Jury finds IA Dept. for Blind'sguidedog policy
>>does not discriminate
>>
>>
>>Alysha:
>>
>>As I have tried to say in another message, cane travel at NFB centers
>>is there in part to accomplish other goals besides just literally
>>teaching cane travel.  The cane is the ultimate symbol of blindness,
>>and learning to carry it with confidence is where the rubber hits the
>>road for most newly blind persons.
>>
>>Most people think the dog does more than he/she does, but they think
>>it nonetheless.  I suspect some blind persons attribute more to the
>>dog then they should too.  So, they wouldn't be developing confidence
>>in their own skills.
>>
>>People from the dog community should come together and start a
>>dog-oriented center I think!
>>
>>Dave
>>
>>At 07:07 PM 2/20/2009, you wrote:
>> >As others have mentioned in their posts, I think we need to consider
>> >that much more than just cane travel is offered at training centers.
>> >So say there's a guide dog user who is comfortable with mobility but
>> >who needs some work on cooking or technology or braille. Then, there
>> >doesn't seem to be a program out there this person could attend to
>> >learn the necessary skills without risking damage to their
>> >relationship with their dog. I do think that cane travel is quite
>> >important and that all guide dog users should be comfortable with
>> >it, but it seems like all the training centers I've heard about
>> >mandate it as the only means of mobility to be used during the time
>> >one is there. So I suppose I'm wondering why there are no programs
>> >(that I know of) that accommodate the potential needs of guide dog
>> >users instead of expecting them to essentially temporarily give up
>> >their chosen mobility aid. The important thing is that we can get
>> >around independently, not whether we do so with a dog or a cane. Why
>> >is it that people seem to link mobility classes only with cane
>> >travel? I think a guide dog user could still benefit from mobility
>> >lessons that aren't focused on the training of the dog. The problem
>> >solving and orientation skills taught in good mobility programs are
>> >useful to you no matter what mobility aid you use. So I think it is
>> >fair for a program to demand competency with a cane, but I do not
>> >think that it is right to restrict the choices of guide dog users to
>> >either doing without training in the myriad of skills taught at
>> >centers or giving up the use of their dogs for a significant
>> >fraction of the day.
>> >
>> >Alysha
>> >
>> >_______________________________________________
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>> >
>> >
>> >
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>
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