[nagdu] The Response I received from PETA

Angie Matney leadinglabbie at mpmail.net
Fri Jan 16 16:42:55 UTC 2009 

Hi Tracy,

I saw a guy use such an assistant once. I don't know that it was his usual mode of travel. He and I were taking online classes together, and one class required us all to meet together for a thre-day session. I showed up with my guide, and he 
came with a woman. If people tried to talk to her, they were told not to do so. In fact, I don't think I ever heard her speak during the entire three days we were there. It worked for him; he got where he needed to go. But based on the 
comments of others in the program, he was not viewed as having the same amount of independence I had. Unfortunately, I could tell that the professor thought so, too. 

Angie

On Fri, 16 Jan 2009 08:32:27 -0500 (EST), Tracy Carcione wrote:

>I hear Kuwait provides a human servant to all its blind citizens.  I
>wouldn't mind a driver, and have thought of hiring one, but I wouldn't
>want a human hanging around all the time.  I certainly wouldn't want one
>all the places I've taken my dog.  On a date?!!!  No thanks!  And I'd be
>wary of showing up at a prospective employer with a human, too.  You know
>how people tend to ignore the blind person, and talk to the sighted one? 
>Do I need to slap that down while dealing with a job interview?  And how
>about the human guide Morris Frank hired, who ditched Morris in the middle
>of the street because he refused the guide a raise?  No thanks.  It would
>be handy to have a sighted person at my beck and call for some things, but
>other times it would be a pain in the ---.  I'll stick with my dog.
>Tracy

>> I have always thought that the organizations that now provide guide dogs
>> to
>> blind people could just as well provide us with a trained driver/sighted
>> guide/reader for the same money--except that maybe it is harder to get
>> donors to contribute by showing them pictures of blind people being
>> chauffered by human drivers than it is by showing pictures of cute
>> puppies.
>> I, for one, would be happy to purchase the car for the human assistant to
>> drive.  The program could screen, train, and certify the assistant, and
>> pay
>> that person's salary, or subsidize it at least.  I would even be happy to
>> train the person myself, if the organization would subsidize the salary
>> and
>> benefits for the driver.
>>
>> This would make it possible for blind people to get good jobs, even if the
>> position requires a lot of car travel and a lot of on-the-fly reading of
>> inaccessible material, and it would also serve to provide employment for
>> some people who are in need of steady employment.
>>
>> I think a well-run organization could probably recruit, train, and
>> subsidize
>> the salary and benefits for a driver/aide for a blind person within the
>> $60,000 cost of producing one guide dog.
>>
>> And PETA would be happy, wouldn't they!  And we blind people could have
>> pet
>> animals, just like non-disabled people, to satisfy our need for animal
>> companionship, leisure exercise, and the health benefits of relationships
>> with animals.
>>
>> Just my imagination running wild on a very frigid winter's night!
>>
>> Best,
>> ann
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "helene ryles" <dreamavdb at googlemail.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 6:49 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA
>>
>>
>>> Wayne:
>>>
>>> I think they mean that we all need looking after if we don't have our
>>> dogs to do it for us. Sigh.  I guess this is just another myth about
>>> how blindness makes us incapable. I guess we still have a lot of work
>>> to do.
>>>
>>> Helene.
>>>
>>> On 15/01/2009, wcmerritt at gmail.com <wcmerritt at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Out of curiosity, what exactly is a "human assistance program?" What
>>>> humans are trained for what tasks? Does this mean that my everyday
>>>> sighted guide needs to go through this program in order to guide me
>>>> effectively? Hmm. And, how do these "human assistance programs" fit
>>>> into PETA's jurrisdiction?
>>>>
>>>> Wayne
>>>>
>>>> On 1/15/09, Merry Schoch <merrys at verizon.net> wrote:
>>>>> Here is the response I received PETA:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear Ms. Schoch,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you for your e-mail. Please allow me to respond on behalf of Ms.
>>>>> Nachminovitch. We appreciate the time you took to share your thoughts
>>>>> with
>>>>> us about Ms. Nachminovitch's comments on the Los Angeles Times
>>>>> "Unleashed"
>>>>> blog, and we apologize sincerely for any offense this interview may
>>>>> have
>>>>> caused.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> What we wished to communicate in this interview was that dogs, guide
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> or
>>>>> not, are affectionate animals who crave contact, play, and love from
>>>>> their
>>>>> human families, and we encourage their guardians to give it to them
>>>>> and
>>>>> make
>>>>> the best choices they can when considering bringing an animal into
>>>>> their
>>>>> home.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It is our hope that guide dog guardians (as well as anyone who cares
>>>>> for
>>>>> a
>>>>> dog) do provide only the best care, and make every effort to keep
>>>>> their
>>>>> dogs
>>>>> even after their "retirement.' It is encouraging to hear that both of
>>>>> your
>>>>> dogs will have a home with you forever. We understand that it is
>>>>> impossible
>>>>> for some people to keep more than one animal, whether for assistance
>>>>> purposes or not, due to rental companies' and landlords' arbitrary
>>>>> (and
>>>>> often discriminatory) policies. We often hear from people whose living
>>>>> situations leave them unable to accommodate their beloved animal
>>>>> companions,
>>>>> and our hearts go out to them.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> To clarify, we do not campaign against using guide dogs, but we do
>>>>> answer
>>>>> honestly when asked our stance on them. We encourage alternatives to
>>>>> using
>>>>> animals, and feel that human assistance programs are more appropriate
>>>>> than
>>>>> trained animals for helping people who have disabilities. Please know
>>>>> that
>>>>> we hold no animosity toward people who opt to work with assistance
>>>>> dogs.
>>>>> We
>>>>> know that most people who make this choice genuinely love their dogs
>>>>> and
>>>>> give them only the best care.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> As an animal rights group, however, we cannot remain silent when there
>>>>> is
>>>>> even the smallest chance for an animal to suffer-to do so would be a
>>>>> betrayal of our members and a disservice to the animals we strive to
>>>>> protect.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you again for your letter and for the opportunity to address
>>>>> your
>>>>> concerns. We appreciate your feedback.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Heidi Parker
>>>>> Mail Coordinator
>>>>> The PETA Foundation
>>>>> http://www.PETA.org
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>>
>>>>> From: Merry Schoch [mailto:merrys at verizon.net]
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:10 PM
>>>>> To: Daphna Nachminovitch
>>>>> Cc: nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>>>> Subject: L.A. Times Blog Post - PETA
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ms. Nachminovitch,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Your comments on the Los Angeles Times blog L.A. Unleashed is full of
>>>>> myths
>>>>> and misconceptions.  It is unfortunate that you have such views, and I
>>>>> am
>>>>> curious how such ideas have been created for you to promulgate such
>>>>> myths.
>>>>> I am hoping that individuals who read this blog do not buy into these
>>>>> untruths.  I find you comments very offensive; however, ignorance and
>>>>> lack
>>>>> of experience of certain situations can cause one to promulgate such
>>>>> atrocities.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I  have not only been a puppyraiser I am also a guide dog user.  My
>>>>> first
>>>>> guide is 12 years old, and he will be with me until he expires.  He
>>>>> lives
>>>>> with two other dogs, and when he was working he had many hours in the
>>>>> day
>>>>> in
>>>>> which to play and relax.  One of his playmates belong to my husband,
>>>>> and
>>>>> she
>>>>> is a guide dog as well.  She will be 12 years old in a few months and
>>>>> will
>>>>> also be with us until her life has ended.  Some individuals may not be
>>>>> as
>>>>> fortunate as us by being able to keep their retired dogs, but these
>>>>> individuals do not need to be bashed when they are giving up a guide
>>>>> that
>>>>> they have loved for many years.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I invite you to visit guide dog users and guide dog schools from
>>>>> across
>>>>> this
>>>>> nation.  We will meet in Detroit in July.  Please go to www.nfb.org
>>>>> and
>>>>> find
>>>>> details regarding our national convention.  You will learn so much
>>>>> about
>>>>> guide dog schools, the dogs, and the users.  Most of all, you will
>>>>> learn
>>>>> the
>>>>> immense capabilities of the blind regardless of the mobility tools
>>>>> they
>>>>> choose.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>
>>>>> Merry Schoch
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> nagdu mailing list
>>>>> nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>>>>> To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
>>>>> nagdu:
>>>>> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/wcmerritt%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> My blog:
>>>> http://wayneism.blogspot.com
>>>> My websites:
>>>> www.wayneism.com
>>>> www.whitecaneday.org
>>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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