[nagdu] The Response I received from PETA

Thu Jan 29 20:06:45 UTC 2009

Thank you for sharing. 
Sounds very controling and twisted. 
Thank you too for sharing about your first dog and the job loss and all
that. 
Would you still have gotten that dog had you known what would have
happened with the housing and job loss? 
I have to say that I wouldn't have gone through with getting a dog. 
This brings me to my next question. 
Why hasn't NFB tried to do something close to FMLA, where a person
cannot be fired from a job if he or she needs to do something to
mitigate a disability, i.e. getting a guide dog, learning to use a piece
of technology, what have you? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2009 1:07 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA

Hi,
By the time I met this lady, her kids were older and not liking being
made to do things for her mother.  The kid was sullen and the disabled
woman would yell at her.

I know what you mean about how your daughter helps you and they love to
help Mommy at that age (smile!). Helping you to clean up spills and
taking out some trash for you is like what many young kids do to help
out at home - disabled or not.  Your daughter didn't have to do these
things for you or something bad would happen to you if she didn't do
those things.  She was merely helping Mommy - something we grew up doing
in our home. Both my parents worked outside the home and we all need to
pull our share of the household work.  It was a good thing for us to do.

I'm talking about this woman's kids HAVING to physically feed and hold
the glass of liquid for the woman to eat or drink. She told me that she
made her kids do this stuff for her.  There's a difference.

Take care,

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IT)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2009 1:08 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA

> If you only saw her a couple of times, why did you think it was
> inappropriate?
> I ask because you didn't have enough data to really know what was
going
> on.
> My kid is a the age where she loves to be helpful. I encourage this
> because she is learning how to be a good citizine, skills I hope she
> will retain in her later life, and because she seems delighted and
proud
> of the things she does, throwing things in the trash, putting her toys
> away, wiping up spills, things like that.
> She has wanted to carry beverages to the table, but she doesn't yet
have
> the ability to do that without making a big mess, or in the case of
hot
> beverages without burning herself.
> She loves to hold my hand when we are out, though I don't rely on her
to
> guide me.
> I can understand though how someone might think that she might be
doing
> that.
> Keep in mind too, that if Mom complained bout her kids at this support
> group, she was following the support group tradition of whining about
> your life.
> Given all this, is there any wonder why her husband split?
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 5:40 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA
>
> Yeah, I know about kids not being able to assist a person like an
adult
> PCA.
> I didn't really see her with her kids - except for a couple of times.
> That's when I told her that I didn't think it appropriate for her to
use
> the kids for PCAs.  She belonged to a disability group I was in.  I
> never saw a husband - he was history by time I knew her.
>
> Thinking about this disabled woman that I knew, I've also seen blind
> people use their kids as helpers as well - even little kids.  Here in
> San Diego, I've seen non-English speakers use their kids as
interpreters
> - even ones as young as pre-schoolers. Anyone come across this in
their
> travels?
>
> Linda and Landon
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IT)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 6:41 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA
>
>
>> Thank you Linda.
>> In my oppinion, sounds like she was just using her disability as an
>> excuse and *might* be borderline abusive.
>> Kids are way more dependent before they are in a position to offer
> help.
>>
>> Plus, she wasn't so disabled to meet a partner or partners and create
>> these kids and to do it a number of times (note the plural in kids)
>> which makes me think this person had more issues than Newsweek.
>> Bottom line, she gets no sympathy from me.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
>> Sent: Monday, January 26, 2009 7:12 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA
>>
>> Rebecca,
>> I don't know how the lady in the wheelchair raised the kids and how
> she
>> did it before she had them be her PCAs.  I didn't know her then.
>>
>> Linda and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IT)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 7:09 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA
>>
>>
>>> Um, how did she care for her kids before they were able to wait on
>> her?
>>> Kids don't start out being helpful, they are surprisingly primitive.
>>> I do agree, using them to wait on her was inappropriate.
>>> The reason in my mind why Moris Frank isn't a good example in PETA's
>>> argument is that he did not use a cane, and could not use one, at
>> least
>>> not the way we think of it.
>>> An interesting case where human personal assistance *does* work is
>>> Stephen Hawking.
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of lindagwizdak at peoplepc.com
>>> Sent: Friday, January 16, 2009 1:38 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA
>>>
>>> Merry,
>>> What a crock from PETA!  Too bad they didn't believe in what they
>> wrote
>>> you!
>>>
>>> Maybe they need to read Peter Putnam's "Love In The Lead" the story
> of
>>> the Seeing Eye and what the problems blind people had that made them
>>> turn to dogs in the first place!  The book clearly tells of Morris
>>> Frank's problems with hiring sighted human help and how that doesn't
>>> work.
>>>
>>> Many years ago, I knew this woman with Cerebral Palsy.  She had some
>>> kids and she - rightly or wrongly - used her kids as care
attendants.
>>> When the kids got mad at her, they would withhold needed help -
>>> including food and water - from her.  I did tell her that using her
>> kids
>>> as assistants wasn't right for them.  They needed to be kids and she
>>> needed to get adult attendants.
>>>
>>> Linda and Landon
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Merry Schoch" <merrys at verizon.net>
>>> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 12:29 PM
>>> Subject: [nagdu] The Response I received from PETA
>>>
>>>
>>>> Here is the response I received PETA:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Ms. Schoch,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you for your e-mail. Please allow me to respond on behalf of
>> Ms.
>>>
>>>> Nachminovitch. We appreciate the time you took to share your
> thoughts
>>> with
>>>> us about Ms. Nachminovitch's comments on the Los Angeles Times
>>> "Unleashed"
>>>> blog, and we apologize sincerely for any offense this interview may
>>> have
>>>> caused.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> What we wished to communicate in this interview was that dogs,
guide
>>> dogs
>>>> or not, are affectionate animals who crave contact, play, and love
>>> from
>>>> their human families, and we encourage their guardians to give it
to
>>> them
>>>> and make the best choices they can when considering bringing an
>> animal
>>>
>>>> into their home.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> It is our hope that guide dog guardians (as well as anyone who
cares
>>> for a
>>>> dog) do provide only the best care, and make every effort to keep
>>> their
>>>> dogs even after their "retirement.' It is encouraging to hear that
>>> both of
>>>> your dogs will have a home with you forever. We understand that it
> is
>>>> impossible for some people to keep more than one animal, whether
for
>>>> assistance purposes or not, due to rental companies' and landlords'
>>>> arbitrary (and often discriminatory) policies. We often hear from
>>> people
>>>> whose living situations leave them unable to accommodate their
>> beloved
>>>
>>>> animal companions, and our hearts go out to them.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> To clarify, we do not campaign against using guide dogs, but we do
>>> answer
>>>> honestly when asked our stance on them. We encourage alternatives
to
>>> using
>>>> animals, and feel that human assistance programs are more
> appropriate
>>> than
>>>> trained animals for helping people who have disabilities. Please
> know
>>> that
>>>> we hold no animosity toward people who opt to work with assistance
>>> dogs.
>>>> We know that most people who make this choice genuinely love their
>>> dogs
>>>> and give them only the best care.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> As an animal rights group, however, we cannot remain silent when
>> there
>>> is
>>>> even the smallest chance for an animal to suffer-to do so would be
a
>>>> betrayal of our members and a disservice to the animals we strive
to
>>>> protect.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thank you again for your letter and for the opportunity to address
>>> your
>>>> concerns. We appreciate your feedback.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Heidi Parker
>>>> Mail Coordinator
>>>> The PETA Foundation
>>>> http://www.PETA.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> --------
>>>>
>>>> From: Merry Schoch [mailto:merrys at verizon.net]
>>>> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 9:10 PM
>>>> To: Daphna Nachminovitch
>>>> Cc: nagdu-request at nfbnet.org
>>>> Subject: L.A. Times Blog Post - PETA
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ms. Nachminovitch,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Your comments on the Los Angeles Times blog L.A. Unleashed is full
> of
>>>> myths and misconceptions.  It is unfortunate that you have such
>> views,
>>> and
>>>> I am curious how such ideas have been created for you to promulgate
>>> such
>>>> myths.  I am hoping that individuals who read this blog do not buy
>>> into
>>>> these untruths.  I find you comments very offensive; however,
>>> ignorance
>>>> and lack of experience of certain situations can cause one to
>>> promulgate
>>>> such atrocities.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I  have not only been a puppyraiser I am also a guide dog user.  My
>>> first
>>>> guide is 12 years old, and he will be with me until he expires.  He
>>> lives
>>>> with two other dogs, and when he was working he had many hours in
> the
>>> day
>>>> in which to play and relax.  One of his playmates belong to my
>>> husband,
>>>> and she is a guide dog as well.  She will be 12 years old in a few
>>> months
>>>> and will also be with us until her life has ended.  Some
individuals
>>> may
>>>> not be as fortunate as us by being able to keep their retired dogs,
>>> but
>>>> these individuals do not need to be bashed when they are giving up
a
>>> guide
>>>> that they have loved for many years.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I invite you to visit guide dog users and guide dog schools from
>>> across
>>>> this nation.  We will meet in Detroit in July.  Please go to
>>> www.nfb.org
>>>> and find details regarding our national convention.  You will learn
>> so
>>>
>>>> much about guide dog schools, the dogs, and the users.  Most of
all,
>>> you
>>>> will learn the immense capabilities of the blind regardless of the
>>>> mobility tools they choose.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>
>>>> Merry Schoch
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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