[nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident

[Julie J]

Allison,

I don't think you upset anyone.  You shared your opinion and we shared ours. 
No harm done.   This list, and life in general, would be very boring if 
everyone agreed on everything.  I enjoy hearing new thoughts and ideas, even 
if I don't agree.  It makes me think.

Julie
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Allison Nastoff" <anastoff at wi.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 11:23 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident


>I am very sorry if I upset people who use nontraditional breeds.  You are 
>right in saying that it is more important to find the right dog for you, 
>and the right dog may be from a nontraditional breed, and that anyone can 
>legally purchase or make a harness, but a harness alone does not make a 
>guide dog.  Come to think of it, I do know people with traditional breeds 
>that have had access issues.  Don't listen to me.  I guess I don't know 
>what I am talking about (smile).  It was just a thought that occurred to me 
>and I wanted to get your opinions.
> Allison and Gilbert
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net
>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>Date sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:07:41 -0500
>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident
>
>>Limiting guide dogs to one or two breeds won't eliminate access
> issues.
>>I'd wager that most denial of access situations occur with labs,
> GSD's and
>>goldens.   Perhaps the more uncommon breeds get more access
> issues
>>individually than the average guide dog handler, but as a group I
> think the
>>common breeds will have many more access denials than the
> uncommon breeds.
>>It simple math.  Probably 95% of the guide dogs currently working
> are one of
>>the three main breeds, labs, goldens and GSD's.
>
>>Also limiting the breeds of dogs used as guides limits the
> options available
>>to blind people.  Allergies is an example that comes to mind.
> Poodles,
>>Boxers and Dobermans are breeds used for handlers who have
> sensitivities to
>>dog dander.
>
>>People who want to misrepresent their pet as a service/guide dog
> don't have
>>to purchase a harness to do so.  You can purchase a vest or patch
> that says
>>"service dog" for under $20.  Guide harnesses don't have to be
> purchased on
>>the black market.  they can be purchased entirely legally from
> several
>>reputable companies.  If you're interested, I can recommend a
> really good
>>one!
>
>>JMHO
>>Julie
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Allison Nastoff" <anastoff at wi.rr.com
>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
> Users"
>><nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 5:09 PM
>>Subject: Re: [nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident
>
>
>>> Reading this article, there should have been no reason for the
> Taco Bell
>>> Manager to remove the dog.  If the dog had just been picked up
> from the
>>> groomer, he was definitely clean and thus would not pose a
> health hazard,
>>> and it sounds like the family was just sitting at the table
> about to eat,
>>> and the dog was not misbehaving.  Correct me if I am wrong, but
> I think
>>> this is a clear case of harassment of an innocent blind ferson
> on the part
>>> of both police and the restaurant.  I hope this woman stands her
> ground
>>> until laws are changed or people in Coppera Cove are better
> educated about
>>> guide dog access laws.
>>> I do wonder though if guide dog schools should stick with
> traditional
>>> breeds like Labs and German Shepherds.  Maybe this would make it
> easier
>>> for the public to trust that a dog is, in fact a guide dog.
>>> Theoretically, someone could get a harness on the black market,
> and put it
>>> on their pet poodle and say he's a guide dog.  The same could be
> true for
>>> someone's pet Lab of course, but I just think that sticking to a
> few
>>> standard breeds might make the guide dog access issue less
> confusing for
>>> the public.  Just my opinion.
>>> Allison and Gilbert
>
>>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>>From: Wayne Merritt <wcmerritt at gmail.com
>>>>To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog
>>> Users" <nagdu at nfbnet.org
>>>>Date sent: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 14:33:02 -0500
>>>>Subject: [nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident
>
>>>>I did a search on Google for the woman's name and among the
>>> results
>>>>that came back was this series of posts on a forum/newsgroup
>>> site.
>>>>I've cleaned up the posts for better reading, but for more and to
>>> read
>>>>comments from others, go to this link:
>
>>>>http://www.topix.com/forum/city/copperas-cove-tx/T52KB3SEVEHKE3KQ
>>> 3
>
>>>>This is interesting stuff.  Several times my eyes widened and I
>>>>thought, "Wow." See for yourself.  Also, according to the below,
>>> Ms.
>>>>Ballou, the owner of the Leader Dog, was not using a
>>> "traditional"
>>>>guide dog breed, which might explain some of the manager's
>>> reaction.
>>>>It doesn't explain the behavior of the police though.
>>>>Wayne
>
>>>>***
>
>>>>new resident in Copperas Cove is considering legal action after
>>> being
>>>>forcefully removed from a local restaurant.
>
>>>>Nanette Ballou lost her sight 11 years ago due to multiple eye
>>>>traumas.  She is assisted by Rusty, a white Berger De Picard or
>>> French
>>>>sheepdog, who was trained at Leader Dogs for the Blind in
>>> Rochester,
>>>>Mich.
>
>>>>While she does have limited vision in her right eye, similar to
>>>>looking through a straw, she can't process depth of field or see
>>>>anything other than what she is directly looking at.  Also, any
>>> change
>>>>in lighting like moving from indoors to outdoors causes her total
>>>>blindness for five to 10 minutes until her eyes adjust.
>
>>>>"He protects me," Ballou said about Rusty.  "He keeps me from
>>> bumping
>>>>into things and from tripping over curbs.  But it's still scary
>>> to walk
>>>>places like parking lots where not everyone is paying attention
>>> and I
>>>>don't have any peripheral vision to rely on."
>
>>>>On Thursday, May 7, after picking up Rusty from the dog groomers,
>>>>Ballou and Rusty along with her daughter and two grandchildren
>>> went to
>>>>Taco Bell.  The family placed their order, picked up their food
>>> and was
>>>>about to eat when Cynthia, a night manager, approached their
>>> table and
>>>>asked, "Is that a Seeing Eye," Ballou recalled.
>
>>>>"No, he's a guide dog, a Leader Dog," Ballou said to correct the
>>> manager.
>
>>>>Ballou said not all guide dogs are Seeing Eye's.  It depends on
>>> what
>>>>school they go to and her dog went to the Leader Dog school.
>
>>>>"It's like calling an A&M student a Longhorn," she said.  "I was
>>> trying
>>>>to educate her that there are more kinds of guide dogs, not just
>>>>Seeing Eye.  But she had no part of it."
>
>>>>The manager told Ballou the health department would shut them
>>> down if
>>>>they saw the dog in the restaurant and then asked for
>>> identification
>>>>for the dog as a guide dog.
>
>>>>Ballou showed her the special harness Rusty wears identifying him
>>> as a
>>>>Leader Dog and stood her ground as she began to feel harassed.
>
>>>>The manager said she was going to call the cops and Ballou said,
>>> "Go
>>>>ahead, save me the call."
>
>>>>Six Copperas Cove police officers in three patrol cars arrived on
>>> the scene.
>>>>When the police arrived, Ballou said they did not identify
>>> themselves
>>>>and the first officer, whose name she was never given, told her
>>> "Lady,
>>>>you and the dog have to get out."
>>>>She told the officer Rusty is a service dog and Texas law allows
>>> him
>>>>to be with her.  She showed him a law book she carries with her
>>> with
>>>>all the state and federal laws for the blind across the country,
>>> but
>>>>said the officer would not look at it.
>>>>She told the officer she just moved to Copperas Cove and said she
>>>>can't believe they don't know what the law is.  She said the
>>> officer
>>>>told her "Welcome to Copperas Cove, if you don't like our laws,
>>>>leave."
>>>>She said the same officer told her, "You don't look blind"
>>> because she
>>>>was looking at him while he spoke to her.  She said it is common
>>>>courtesy in the visual world to look at someone when they speak
>>> to you
>>>>and you don't have to be sighted to do so.
>>>>A second officer on scene Cpl.  Shane Kieltyka did read her law
>>> book,
>>>>she said, because she believes he understood she was trying to
>>> diffuse
>>>>the situation.
>
>>>>"When the first officer approached me, it flustered me," she
>>> said.
>>>>"But I stood my ground."
>>>>Her daughter, Jennifer Warden, said when the police arrived they
>>>>crowded around the table
>>>> enlarge
>>>>making it difficult for them to leave like they were being told.
>>> One
>>>>of the officers also followed Warden to her car, speaking in a
>>>>confrontational voice while blocking her in the corner of her
>>> car's
>>>>open door, Ballou said.
>>>>"We felt closed in," Warden said.  "There was me, a 10 year old
>>> and a
>>>>nine year old and a blind woman with her dog.  How dangerous did
>>> we
>>>>look? They did everything short of calling in the SWAT and
>>> spreading
>>>>us out on the ground like an episode of COPS."
>>>>Her oldest child, age 10, has cerebral palsy and said the
>>> incident has
>>>>had a negative impact on her trust in the police and how disabled
>>>>people are treated.
>>>>Warden, who said the police have been called before because of
>>> her
>>>>mother's guide dog, said this is the first time they were treated
>>> this
>>>>way.  All the other times the police said they were allowed to
>>> stay,
>>>>she said.
>>>>"They didn't do anything but make us the victim," she said about
>>> the police.
>>>>Warden said her husband is being stationed at Fort Hood, but
>>> after
>>>>this incident, said her family will look for a place to live in
>>> Belton
>>>>or Harker Heights.
>
>>>>"We weren't impressed at all with the attitude the people in
>>> Copperas
>>>>Cove have, especially the police department," Warden said.  "If
>>> we're
>>>>not living on base we need to know we can rely on the police
>>>>department, and that was a big no."
>>>>Now Ballou, an advocate for the blind, is searching every avenue
>>>>available to her to make sure this does not happen again.  She
>>> said she
>>>>is afraid this incident has labeled her as a troublemaker by
>>> everyone
>>>>who saw the incident.
>>>>"Everyone who drove by and saw me and my very identifiable dog
>>> doesn't
>>>>know what happened," she said.  "In a way, I was slandered across
>>> the
>>>>community as a troublemaker.  I'm very vocal about what happened
>>>>because I want the public to know the laws that protect my civil
>>>>rights were not protected by the police department or Taco Bell."
>>>>Ballou contacted the police department several times to speak
>>> with
>>>>Police Chief Tim Molnes, but said he wouldn't return phone calls.
>>>>Another officer did eventually speak with her and take a report
>>>>filling official charges against the Taco Bell manager for
>>> non-access.
>>>>Ballou said she could have also pressed charges for interfering
>>> with a
>>>>service animal's job and for harassment, but has not.
>>>>She then contacted the district attorney's office where an
>>> assistant
>>>>told her this is a civil manner and they don't handle those
>>> cases.  She
>>>>told them it is not a civil manner and she said he repeated
>>> several
>>>>times "we're not going there" and then hung up.
>>>>She has also called City Attorney Charles Zech and left a
>>> message, but
>>>>has not heard back from him.
>>>>"Everyone at the city has shut me off," she said.  "They are
>>> afraid I
>>>>might sue.  I don't like to fight.  If the police chief had made
>>> them
>>>>apologize, I probably would have dropped all of this."
>>>>She said she just wants to see the laws enforced.  She also said
>>> there
>>>>are grants available through the ADA civil rights section of the
>>>>United States Justice Department for entities to have someone
>>> come in
>>>>and teach them ADA laws.
>>>>City Manager Andrea Gardner said "The City's policy is not to
>>> comment
>>>>on ongoing investigative matters" and would not answer questions
>>> about
>>>>the city's ADA training or this incident.
>>>>Lt.  Danny Austin said the file on this case is still open and
>>> could
>>>>not release information without an open records request.  The
>>> request
>>>>was sent to the Copperas Cove Police Department earlier this
>>> week.  The
>>>>file has not yet been received.  The May 7 police blotter has no
>>> report
>>>>of an incident at Taco Bell.
>>>>Taco Bell representative Don Barton has also been contacted by
>>> the
>>>>Leader-Press office about the incident.  He said he would send a
>>>>prepared statement by e-mail.  The statement was not received by
>>> press
>>>>time.
>>>>Texas law on service animals states any violations of a person's
>>> right
>>>>to use a guide dog is guilty of a misdemeanor and is punishable
>>> by a
>>>>fine of not less than $300 or more than $1,000.
>>>>"They know they stepped over the line," Ballou said.  "They are
>>> just
>>>>hoping it will go away."
>
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