[nagdu] Getting Organized!

Sun Jun 7 22:04:24 UTC 2009

Dan,
    I was really looking forward to hearing your flute. I am very 
disappointed that we didn't get to do so. Will you be in Detroit?

Marion


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Getting Organized!


> My pleasure, Marian, I'm just saying what I think.
> I enjoyed spending time with you on the train--grin.
> It was great.
> The convention got a bit hectic and we kept missing each other.
> The funny thing is by the time I got used to the hotel, it was time to
> leave--grin.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Dan W. and President Carter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 6:08 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Getting Organized!
>
> Dan,
>    Thank you very much for your kind words about me! There are many in our
> movement who are willing to take up the fight! Perhaps this incident in
> Texas will help underscore our need for a NAGDU division in that state and
> every other. If there is a member on this list who does not have a NAGDU
> division in their state, perhaps they would be willing to help out in the
> organization of one. There is a great deal of support from the NAGDU Board
> and, as this incident reveals, a need for an organized guide dog user
> movement in every state.
>
> Fraternally,
> Marion
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dan Weiner" <dcwein at dcwein.cnc.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 1:02 AM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident
>
>
>> Hi, guys.
>>
>> I noticed, by the way, that before Wayne found the additional information
>> about the incident, so many of us were quick to condemn the lady who was
>> suffering the access denial.
>> "oh, what must she have done, her dog must have not been in control."
>> ...that's what I read in several letters.
>> If we blind are so quick to condemn other people without the facts than
>> how
>> will we ever make progress?
>> Where is our sense of solidarity?
>> In access issues I automatically assume the worst of the restaurant and
>> whatever, not my fellow blind guide dog user.
>> That' me, anyway.
>> I've noticed this type of thing over my years in the blind movement
>> generally.  We talk a good fight, but every time there's a problem I'll
>> hear
>> someone saying "Oh, maybe we shouldn't  get involved, what if the person
>> did
>> something to provoke it"..etc.
>>
>> In this regard I enthusiastically praise Marion who by his attitude and
>> actions demonstrates to me a spirit of commitment to advancing guide dog
>> access as part of NAGDU's agenda and reason for being.
>>
>>
>> The only thing I wonder is what the idiot manager would have done  if the
>> victim had said "yes, it's a Seeing eye dog"?
>> The school name distinction is not a cross I'm willing to die on, just my
>> personal view.
>> Here in Florida I heard "Seeing Eye dog" when I was young and didn't know
>> there was another name until I started looking in to getting a dog--grin.
>> When I lived in Ohio, every guide dog was a Pilot Dog.
>> Once a Handyvan driver at OSU asked me if Evan was a Pilot Dog. I said,
>> without thinking, "no, but he's a guide dog".
>> I was told that only Pilot Dogs were allowed and we had to call the
>> manager
>> who of course explained.
>>
>> Anyway, the lack of enforcement of the law in the case of the lady in
>> Texas
>> and the ignorance and, I believe, nasty attitude of the Cops shows why we
>> still have access issues after 80 years of guide dog use  in the US.
>>
>> Cordially,
>>
>> Dan W. and Carter Dog
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Linda Gwizdak
>> Sent: Sunday, June 07, 2009 12:41 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident
>>
>> Hi Buddy,
>> I know that a harness doesn't make a guide dog - you could put one on any
>> dog but if it isn't trained to guide, it won't guide.
>>
>> It's more of what the harness shows visually.  You see a guide dog 
>> harness
>> on a dog, you assume it is a guide dog.  You see a man wearing a military
>> uniform, you assume he is a military man.
>>
>> It is what the harness symbolizes as much as a military uniform
>> symbolizes.
>>
>> Reading that article, I wonder what really happened in that Taco Bell.
>> The
>> manager's actions make no sense.  The Seeing Eye celebrates its 80th year
>> and it is amazing how much access denials we still get around the 
>> country.
>> And that is for guide dogs!  In comparison, there are so much more
>> problems
>> of this type with people with hidden disabilities who have service dogs.
>> That's what makes it such a shame when people abuse disabled people's
>> rights
>> by bringing untrained dogs and passing them off as service dogs.  Just my
>> observations.
>>
>> Linda and Landon
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2009 6:45 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] More information on Taco Bell incident
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Jun 6, 2009, at 6:09 PM, Allison Nastoff wrote:
>>>
>>>> I do wonder though if guide dog schools should stick with  traditional
>>>> breeds like Labs and German Shepherds.  Maybe this would  make it 
>>>> easier
>>>> for the public to trust that a dog is, in fact a  guide dog.
>>>> Theoretically, someone could get a harness on the black  market, and 
>>>> put
>>>> it on their pet poodle and say he's a guide dog.   The same could be
>>>> true
>>
>>>> for someone's pet Lab of course, but I just  think that sticking to a
>>>> few
>>
>>>> standard breeds might make the guide  dog access issue less confusing
>>>> for
>>
>>>> the public.  Just my opinion.
>>>
>>> I couldn't disagree with you more. For one thing, if we stuck to
>>> "traditional breeds" and started doing so at the beginning, we'd all
>>> have
>>
>>> shepherds. But more to the point, well, actually, there are  several
>>> points.
>>>
>>> 1) There are many kinds of service dogs, not just guide dogs, and if
>>> they
>>
>>> are task trained (etc. etc. etc.), they have the protection of  Federal
>>> law. Many of these dogs are non-traditional breeds, even mixed  breeds.
>>> Would you deny access to handlers of such dogs only to make  the issue
>>> easier for the public?
>>>
>>> 2. I've said it before and I'll say it again. There is absolutely no
>>> magic in guide dog equipment. Moreover, there is no law that  stipulates
>>> what constitutes proper working equipment for guide or, for  that 
>>> matter,
>>> any other service animal. Someone could as easily take  his pet dog
>>> somewhere and as easily claim it to be a service dog. This  is a sticky
>>> issue, but the issue of working equipment just clouds the  issue 
>>> further.
>>> A harness does not a guide dog make, nor does it prove  legitimacy. This
>>> issue of "harnesses falling into the wrong hands" has  always, frankly,
>>> puzzled me. A harness proves nothing, nor does it  give one service
>>> animal
>>
>>> more legal weight than another who might  require different equipment.
>>> Whether or what equipment a dog wears  does not define it as a service
>>> animal, and propagating statements to  the contrary can't help the 
>>> larger
>>> community of service dog owners,  especially those who don't require
>>> specific equipment. (Besides,  anyone with the requisite skill set can
>>> make a harness, this really  isn't any sort of arcane knowledge 
>>> jealously
>>> guarded by the guide dog  schools.)
>>>
>>> 3. None of this about sticking to "traditional breeds" takes into
>>> account
>>
>>> the needs or desires of owner trainers. Julie? Rox'e? Marti?  Let's say
>>> one of you found a dog of just the right temperament but it  wasn't a
>>> "traditional breed". Would you not find it a supreme waste  that you
>>> couldn't use such a dog on the basis of its not conforming to  someone
>>> else's idea of the "right" kind of dog?
>>>
>>> Don't forget that Jenine was just talking about some access trouble  she
>>> had when she brought her (very traditional) Golden into a store  and
>>> someone thought this couldn't possibly be a guide dog, because it 
>>> wasn't
>>> a GSD. Would you like to so narrowly define what constitutes a  working
>>> service animal? OK, consider this. Right now, the most common  breed of
>>> service dog (especially guide dog) is the Labrador Retriever.  Several
>>> decades ago, it was the German Shepherd dog. In several more  decades,
>>> let's suppose this changes again. If we rigidly define that  only labs,
>>> Goldens, GSD's, and lab/golden crosses are legitimate  service dogs and
>>> in
>>
>>> 30 years the labradoodle becomes dominant, how  would this affect such a
>>> law? What do we do about people who,for one  reason or another, need to
>>> use a boxer, or a poodle, or a Doberman?  Shall we deny them use of a
>>> guide dog for which they may in all other  respects be suitable?
>>>
>>> Buddy
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>
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>> et
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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