[nagdu] Labrador-Poodle cross

[Tamara Smith-Kinney]

Jenine,

Interesting feedback on the LPs.  I've only known them as other people's
pets, and they're delightful.  Very, very hyper.  /smile/  I did meet you
and your LP at convention, but just long enough for us to drag our dogs
apart because they were both snarking.  And I did have trouble with that
behavior in my sweet precious for most of the week.  I agree:  Totally
unacceptable!

Since Mitzi was just 2 then and we were both dreadfully inexperienced and it
was the first convention for both of us, I thought it would be premature to
write her off as a guide and instead have worked with the problem when it
occurs.  Which it almost never does, but I've added a couple of new tools to
my kit to get her attention back and get her quiet in case it does.  I did
run across another poodle guide user at Convention, and she told me the
reason mine was the only poodle there is because all the other poodle guides
had stayed home because poodles have so much trouble there and just get
weird.  Now I know!

That same active, alert quality I love so much in her when she's channeling
it into her work is also the trait that I will probably need to monitor and
adjust for the most in her continuing work, lest it leads her to turn to the
dark side.  I can contemplate having to retire her -- although I would
really hate that -- much more easily now that I know I will be able to keep
her.  I absolutely adore that dog!  It would mean going without a guide for
a few years, depending on Ms. Daisy, but I would probably survive.  There's
also the fact that the chances of becoming an employee any time soon are nil
to none, although I will still keep an ear out for opportunities once my
health is stable enough to consider getting a job.  Suddenly, the sensible
choice for me is to freelance, which means she won't have to be quiet in an
office all day while I work.  That would be stressful for her, I know,
although I can't predict how she would manage the stress and if she would
adapt to that environment and routine well enough that it got to be
un-stressful.  /smile/  It's only been in the past few months that I can
catch her being mellow and relaxed, and I still have a tendency to get
agitated with worry when she does and check her nose and pulse...  I'm
exaggerating, and I do the health check thing every day anyway, but I hardly
know what to do myself not being required to entertain and exercise her
every minute of every day.  I think I even have Daisy trained to let me sit
at the computer until afternoon.  The sheer peace and quiet of it all still
makes my ears ring at times.  /grin/  Love the coonhound vocalizations, but
they're best heard from a safe distance.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 5:47 AM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Labrador-Poodle cross

Hello Haben, 

I have worked with a Lab/Poodle cross from the Guide Dog Foundation. First
though I must tell you that currently, the Foundation is not breeding any
Lab/Poodle crosses. We may have a few still coming up through training but
the numbers are very few indeed and someone needs, at this time, a
demonstrated allergy situation, i.e., personal or family allergy, to even be
considered for one. 

We continue to breed Standard Poodles but our waiting list to receive one is
over a year long and again, demonstrated allergy situations merit first
choice for Poodles. 

The Lab/Poodle varies widely in everything about itself from coat to
temperament to allergic factors. Lab/Poodles, which I'll call LPs for short,
have a mix of fur, which grows to a set length, and hair, which grows
continuously. Some LPs look like Poodles with curls or relaxed curls while
others look more like Labs with longer, sort of frizzy coats. The Coats have
a unique texture though, wiry is probably the best description. 

Poodles are generally very alert dogs and this alertness can carry over into
the LP, causing some to be hyper alert, watching everything and reacting
accordingly. 

There are some outstanding LPs out there, obviously or the cross would not
have been considered for guide work, but there are equally many LPs who
start out perfectly fine and become noise sensitive, suspicious, overly
protective, have confinement issues  and even develop aggression toward
other dogs or people. I say this because these dogs can break your heart.
They are brilliant, have fun personalities and can do some incredible guide
work, but they are rather fragile in terms of temperament. Mine was retired
after 3 years due to increasing confinement issues, i.e., she could not
stand to be under things or in small spaces and if forced to be, she would
become even more suspicious, growling at any other dog that came near her.
She also began to snap at other dogs, something I personally find to be
unacceptable in a guide dog no matter what the reason. 

The Lab/Poodle is a very complex dog, more so I think than either of the
breeds that go into it because you never quite know what you're going to
get. When it's good, it's incredible and when it's bad, it's, well,
incredibly bad. 

Most of the schools around the world, including the one in Australia where
the breed was started, no longer use the LP due to its unpredictability. I
am not sure the Foundation will resume using them. We simply don't know at
this point. We are quite pleased with the Poodle lines we have now, and our
Labs are our bread and butter, as they are at most schools, but the
combination has proven costly in terms of training, retraining, and the
emotional tole it takes on handlers when having to retire the dogs. I don't
know the status of the LP at the other schools who have used them here in
the US, Guide Dogs of the Desert and Guide Dogs of America. If I was
interested in getting one, I'd definitely call and talk with their training
departments. 

It was my observation that though my LP might have been less allergy
producing, having a different dander, this did not lessen the resistance to
her if people were going to resist her. 

Another factor of a Poodle or LP is that they do produce a certain odor that
one must monitor. It's best described as dirty socks. It's just a matter of
brushing and sometimes using a coat conditioner or dry shampoo to remove
excess oils from the coat, but it's there in some/most LPs and Poodles from
time to time. Of course, most of our dogs can have a particular doggie odor
from time to time. The Poodle odor is just different. 


As for grooming/clipping, this too depends on the coat. I've seen LPs with
the wavier coat who just need it trimmed every 3 to 4 months while mine
needed a full clip every 2 months unless I let her grow out in winter. She
still needed her face clipped every 6 weeks or so. This ran me between $40
and $60 depending on where I went. My girl adored being bathed and clipped
but I made sure the groomers knew LPs. Many LPs have beards that also
require a lot of care to keep clean and trimmed neatly. They have longer
hair that grows not only on the outer flaps of their ears, sometimes
trailing in food, water and every other substance with which they come in
contact, but inside their ears as well. This hair must be plucked and
trimmed. The plucking from inside, I'm told, is painless. My girl didn't
have any hair inside her ears but the hair on the outside grew quite quickly
and needed to be managed. 

Btw, the shedding myth is just that, a myth. My LP shed like crazy. Some do,
some shed very little, but most do shed. It's only when breeding successive
generations of the cross that the shedding goes away. Then other issues
begin to surface though as the Australians discovered when trying this, and
they ended up dropping the cross. 

So, I hate to be a wet blanket, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for an LP
unless you find one and have it privately trained or owner trained. 


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