[nagdu] Ownership & consideration

Tue Mar 3 18:10:24 UTC 2009

Craig,
    Thanks for your expert input. In the case of my boat, however, at the 
time of the purchase it probably wasn't worth much more than $1.00,, even 
for the scrap materials. It had no bottom, so wasn't worth much as a boat, 
since it wouldn't float. By the time I was done with it, though, it was 
worth much more due to the materials and labor that was put into it to make 
it seaworthy or, at least, lake worthy! BTW, I named the craft 
"hopafloatsfoeva"! Get it?

Peace!
Marion

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <craig.borne at dot.gov>
To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 9:56 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Ownership & consideration

> Hi Marion,
>
> To have a valid contract, one needs:
> 1. offer
> 2. acceptance
> 3. mutual assent
> 4. consideration
>
> Mutual assent is typically known as a "meeting of the minds," which
> really is that some sort of discussion (no matter how small) has taken
> place.
>
> Consideration has two parts: "bargained for; legal detriment."  The
> consideration must be "bargained for," which is mostly easily expressed
> in a price tag, but it does not necessarily need to be such.  "Legal
> detriment" means doing something you are not obligated to do or
> refraining from something in which you are allowed to do.
>
> In other words, "I will pay you $100, if you cease guitar playing for
> the rest of your life."  Not withstanding the fact that it is a rotten
> deal, consideration is present because I have "bargained for" using $100
> to get you to refrain from something you are absolutely allowed to do
> (i.e., playing the guitar).
>
> Typically, the lack of monetary consideration (like the $1 in Marion's
> example) shows lack of "bargained for," and therefore, the transaction
> may be seen as a "gift," which has all kinds of issues of its own.
>
> I don't remember what was in my Seeing Eye contract, but I imagine that
> the $150 certainly is consideration for my signature on the contract and
> the school giving me full ownership upon graduation.  However and not
> speaking on behalf of the school, I think the $150 is more of a show of
> commitment on behalf of the handler than it is consideration, though in
> the legal world, it is both.  The fact that a dog is not "given" to you
> as an entitlement and that you had to make some sacrifice for the dog is
> powerful, and I believe as a father of two youngsters that paying for
> something yourself (or working to raise the money/sponsors to purchase
> an item) will directly reflect in the manner in which an individual will
> treat the purchased item.
>
> I hope this doesn't muddy up the already cloudy waters.
>
> Craig
>
> Craig Borne
> NHTSA/DOT
> (202) 493-0627
> craig.borne at dot.gov
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 7:58 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: [nagdu] Ownership & consideration
>
> Dear All,
>    Perhaps the legal eagles on this list can give us information about
> the
> requirement for "consideration" in a legally binding contract for
> ownership.
> I once bought a boat from a local police department that had washed up
> on
> shore and no one claimed it. After about two years of sitting behind
> city
> hall, I asked if I could buy it. I was charged $1.00 and given a title
> to
> the boat. The explanation was that, in order for the sale to be a
> legally
> binding contract, I needed to give consideration; otherwise, after I
> fixed
> up the boat, someone could come back and claim it as theirs and I would
> have
> absolutely no right of ownership. How does this apply to ownership of
> our
> guide dogs?
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Buddy Brannan" <buddy at brannan.name>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 12:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] O&M, Ownership, & Leader
>
>
>>
>> On Mar 2, 2009, at 11:57 AM, Nicole B. Torcolini wrote:
>>
>>> Also, are there any other schools that charge a fee for ownership? I
>>> don't
>>> really like that idea.
>>
>> I'm curious--what is it exactly that you don't like about that idea?
>> Should we as blind people just get free stuff as a matter of course?
>>
>> But to answer your question, Fidelco also has, I believe, a $150
>> donation. It is,at least, a very strong suggestion if not an outright
>> requirement.
>>
>> --
>> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
>> Phone: (814) 746-4127 or 888-75-BUDDY
>> Create your own economic stimulus package:
>> http://www.powermall.info
>>
>>
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