[nagdu] O&M, Ownership issues, (was: Ownership, & Leader)

Brent Reynolds burddawg at bellsouth.net
Tue Mar 3 21:50:13 UTC 2009


HI, Guys,
The Seeing Eye set the $150 "adjustment fee" as they now call it back at the
beginning, for their first class in January, 1929.  Then as now, a graduate
can pay as little as one dollar per month and take up to ten years to pay
that amount, and at no interest.  Even in the darkest and hardest days of
the Great Depression, this was never seen to be a hardship or imposition on
anybody who got a Seeing Eye dog.  The amount for each successor dog is
fifty dollars.

Until about 2003 or 2004, The Seeing Eye did not officially retain ownership
of the harness, although they strongly suggested that if you did not want to
keep it anymore for whatever reason, you could return it to the school,
regardless of its condition and they could use it as a training harness.

Then, somewhere around 2003 or 2004, a number of Seeing Eye harnesses ended
up for sale on Ebay, usually put up for auction by relatives of a deceased
Seeing Eye graduate.  The school spent a good deal of time and persuasion to
get Ebay to pull the listings for those harnesses and worked to educate them
that if guide dog harnesses ended up on Ebay, it would be easier for people
to use them to fraudulently pass off pets as legitimate guide dogs and try
to take them where ever they wanted to take them, even in places where only
guide dogs and other legitimate service dogs are supposed to be allowed to
go.

So, when I was there in August/September of 2004, I got a harness with a
serial number and a statement that the harness is the property of The Seeing
Eye ingraved on the underside of the back strap.  We were still told that we
could keep the harness as long as we like, as long as we agree not to use it
on any dog other then our Seeing Eye dogs, and we agree not to offer it for
sale or to give it away to anybody else other than the school.  As one
instructor said, "You can nail it up in the barn or do whatever else you
want with it, just don't sell it or auction it on Ebay, or give it away, and
don't use it on a dog that it not your Seeing Eye dog."  I could even keep
it and and use it on my next Seeing Eye dog if that dog wears the same size
harness, or I can keep it for sentimental reasons if I like.

I don't see that as being the same as, it is my car but they own the keys
and can take them away any time they see fit.  Now, at some other schools,
this is in fact the case.

I have not heard all the gory details of the incident, but I heard that some
time in the period between 2002 and 2005, there was an incident where a
Leader Dog graduate ended up being a wheelchair user and decided to train
her Leader dog to guide her while using the wheelchair.  The school did not
believe that was safe, but they could not legally take away the dog, since
at that time, Leader Dogs grads were getting full ownership upon graduation
with the dog.  The school did retain ownership of the harness, and, as I
heard the story, a Leader Dogs instructor took the harness and the leash,
both of which had the school's name on them from the woman while she was
attending one of the blind advocacy organization conventions.  She got
somebody to take her to a store to buy a leash, and I would assume she later
did something about harness gear from another source later.  I don't believe
The Seeing Eye would have dealt with a similar issue in any way like that.

I believe that they might ask for the return of the harness, and defvinitely
say that they would not vouch for the safety or quality of the training of
the dog being used in that manner and for that purpose, since they did not
train the dog to guide the wheelchair user and had not in any way qualified
any such training.  And, they would most likely reserve the right to not
provide the service to that graduate in the future unless they could get
some assurance that said graduate would not do something like that again.

One of my best friends from my high school days went and got a Seeing eye
dog some time ijn the 1980's and worked with it successfully for a few
years.  A friend of his wanted a guide dog, and since my buddy had some
lifestyle changes where he felt a dog was not as useful to him, showed the
friend a little about how to use the Seeing Eye dog and gave it over to him.
 The Seeing Eye was, needless to say, not residing in the happy camper
categbory over that deal, but since my buddy owned the dog, there was not
much they could really do about it.  My buddy insists that the his friend
used the dog as a guide quite well for a few years with no apparent safety
issues.  After all, we're not exactly talking about rocket science here, you
know.

I asked a Seeing Eye staff person a few years later if they might consider
serving my friend with another dog and training in the future, and the
response was something to the effect that they might do so, but there might
always be that little question running around in the back of the mind
somewhere.


Brent Reynolds, Atlanta, GA  USA
Email: burddawg at bellsouth.net  Phone: 1-404-814-0768





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