[nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Mon Mar 23 05:10:37 UTC 2009

Angie,

I am not sure. I suspect it depends on exactly what activities any given
school is performing in CA.

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                 Michael Hingson, President
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:34 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Michael,

Am I understanding correctly that they could only get the instructor
licensing fees, not the administrative fees?

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:35 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Angie,

I think the board wishes to license schools outside California so they can
get those fees of which you speak.  They cannot nor should not prevent
follow-up, but they can try to get money from schools with reps living in
the state or which fundraise in the state.

M. H.

The Michael Hingson Group
     “Speaking with Vision”
                 Michael Hingson, President
                         (415) 827-4084
                   info at michaelhingson.com
                   www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:21 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Michael,

I don't know. It seems like they wouldn't really make that much money.
Suppose the ten or so non-California schools each licensed threee
instructors. The board would get a one-time infusion of $7500, and then
about $3000 each year. The 
statute requires schools that are licensed in California to pay a certain
amount of their administrative expenses to the "Guide Dogs for the Blind
Fund" (or whatever it's called), but these schools wouldn't be licensed
entities in CA, so they 
wouldn't pay that expense. Do you think the Board would bother with this in
an attempt to raise $3000 a year? Or am I missing something?

I'm wondering if public outcry in the face of what happened at EDF has led
the Board to take these actions.

I'm concerned that "training" is not defined in the statute.

Angie

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:52:20 -0700, mhingson wrote:

>I do not know what is motivating the board, but I suspect it is not so much
>follow up as it might be fund raising.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>     
Speaking with Vision

>                 Michael Hingson, President
>                         (415) 827-4084
>                   info at michaelhingson.com
>                   www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Margo and Elmo
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:21 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>that doesn't seem quite right to me.  So, if the Seeing Eye does follow ups

>in California with graduates, they'll have to jump through hoops to provide

>those services, and, I don't think the California Board has the right to 
>tell guide dog schools who function well and so on what they need to know
or

>do to do follow-ups or home training in California.  sounds fishy to me.

>margo and Elmo

>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Craig,

>Owner-trainers are exempt.

>On the other hand, it will be interesting to monitor this and to see how it
>shakes down.  Many schools do come into California to raise funds as well
as
>to conduct some training through follow up.  Mostly, I suspect that the
>board is attempting to secure licensing fees from those schools who do have
>some activities in California.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>"Speaking with Vision"
>Michael Hingson, President
>(415) 827-4084
>info at michaelhingson.com
>www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Craig Borne
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:00 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Wow.

>For a school located outside of California and training guides/handlers
>outside of California, I don't see how this would be enforceable.  The
>statutes cited do not apply to blind handlers, only schools.  The State
>cannot dictate where a handler goes to acquire a dog, and the State cannot
>override the ADA by not granting access to a handler using a guide dog from
>out of State.

>This would, however, effect owner/trainers in California, since before
>"using" the guide, the owner/trainer would be "training" a non-guide dog.

>California cannot set business regulations outside of its borders.  This
>would be a very slippery slope indeed.  I smell revenue enhancing motives
>for California.

>Craig

>Craig Borne
>Baltimore, Maryland
>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Angie Matney
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:22 PM
>To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Have people seen this letter from the California State Board of Guide Dogs
>for the Blind to out-of-state dog-guide programs? The text follows the
link.

>http://www.guidedogboard.ca.gov/forms_pubs/outofstateletter.shtml

>Letter to out-of-state schools
>Re: Compliance with California State Law Pertaining to Guide Dogs

>Dear Out-of-State School:

>On July 8, 1947, Governor Earl Warren signed into law the Guide Dog Act.
>This act was established to keep out maverick guide dog schools, protect
the
>visually impaired by setting minimum standards of training, provide
>oversight for the disposition
>of donor funds and maintain minimum competency of training for licensed
>guide dog instructors.

>The purpose of this letter is twofold. First, the Board wishes to inform
all
>out-of-state schools the statutes requiring compliance with licensure
>requirements for instruction in the state of California. Second, the Board
>has a process for compliance -
>namely the examination for an instructor license. If a candidate for
>licensure meets the minimum requirements to sit for the examination, they
>are eligible for licensure status. The examination is given twice per year
>and involves a one-day Written
>Exam
>and a one-day Oral/Practical Exam. Fingerprints are also required before
>taking the examination.

>First, California law requires a license for the sale or the giving of a
>guide dog. Business and Professions Code section 7210 requires that:

>It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, give, hire or
>furnish under any other arrangement, any guide dog or seeing-eye dog or to
>engage in the business or occupation of training any such dog unless he
>holds a valid and unimpaired
>license issued pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

>Second, California law requires guide dog instructors to be licensed. An
>instructor "means a person who instructs blind persons in the use of guide
>dogs or who engages in the business of training, selling, hiring, or
>supplying guide dogs for the blind."
>California law as set forth in 16 CCR section 2284 requires:

>Anyone instructing a blind person in the use of a guide dog must be
licensed
>by the Board, provided, however, that a school may employ apprentices to
>assist in such instruction. No apprentice shall act as an instructor except
>under the direct and
>immediate supervision of a licensed instructor.

>Last, B&P Code Section 7213 provides that:

>Violation of any provision of this chapter is a misdemeanor.

>The process for obtaining an instructor license begins with an examination.
>To qualify to take the examination, the individual must have the following
>qualifications as set forth in Statute (B&P Code Section 7209) -- which
>states the following:

>[P]erson to be eligible for examination as an instructor must (1) have a
>knowledge of the special problems of the blind and how to teach them, (2)
be
>able to demonstrate by actual blindfold test under traffic conditions his
>ability to train guide dogs with
>whom a blind person would be safe, (3) be suited temperamentally and
>otherwise to instruct blind persons in the use of guide dogs, and, (4) have
>had at least three years actual experience, comprising such number of hours
>as the Board may require,
>as an instructor, and have handled twenty-two (22) man-dog units; or its
>equivalent, as determined by the Board, as an apprentice under a licensed
>instructor or under an instructor in a school satisfactory to the Board.

>Applicants for the instructor license are required to take both a written
>and practical/oral examination. Applicants must provide a 15-30 minute
video
>demonstrating instruction skills. A panel of subject matter experts will
>review the video and evaluate
>the candidate's oral defense of said video. The five steps to licensing are
>available on the Board's Web site. Applicants may also obtain the
>application for examination at www.guidedogboard.ca.gov

>The instructor licenses are good for one year and are renewed each year
>thereafter for a fee of $100. Along with the fee, an instructor must
provide
>the Board with evidence of continuing education (either 8 hours of
>course/seminar attendance or 16
>hours of attendance at meetings of guide dog users or organizations of the
>blind).

>If you have any questions about the laws cited above, please feel free to
>contact me at               (916) 574-7825       . Thank you.

>Sincerely,

>Antonette Sorrick

>ANTONETTE SORRICK
>Executive Officer, State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind

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