[nagdu] CA State Board

Mon Mar 23 22:56:44 UTC 2009

I do not know the history of this open letter, but I can tell you from
personal experience that the CA State Board has worked very hard to help us
volunteer puppy raisers with the challenges we have faced with EDF.  I have
attended a number of Board meetings and spoken with staff on more than one
occasion.  They are well meaning people very concerned about the rights of
the blind and the integrity of Guide Dog Schools.  I would presume good
intent with this letter.

Anna C. Thomasson
Principal, Towers Perrin
anna.thomasson at towersperrin.com
Phoenix:           602-553-1087
Los Angeles:  310-551-5854
Facsimile:       310-789-5909

----- Forwarded by Anna Thomasson/Towers Perrin on 03/23/2009 03:52 PM
-----

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               fbnet.org               nagdu Digest, Vol 48, Issue 29      

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: guide dogs in UK / update on Shaman's training.
      (Mardi Hadfield)
   2. Re: CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools
      (Margo and Elmo)
   3. Re: CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools
      (mhingson)
   4. Re: CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools
      (Angie Matney)
   5. Re: CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools
      (Michael Hingson)
   6. Re: CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools
      (Angie Matney)
   7. Re: CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools
      (Michael Hingson)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 14:09:02 -0700
From: Mardi Hadfield <wolfsinger.lakota at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] guide dogs in UK / update on Shaman's training.
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Message-ID:
             <9023d1d70903221409u6c16da9bnf40586ec798ac120 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Hi every one,  Sean, Thanks for sharing this bit of interesting
information.
I wish more schools would train for wheelchair users. There are at least 4
other legally blind wheelchair users in Tucson AZ, where I live.Only one ,
other than my self has a guide dog.Hers was also trained by my private
trainer.It is not any harder to train a dog to work from a wheelchair than
,
than to train one to work for a person who walks. There are some things
different, but most of the training is the same.I am just talking about
the
guide training here.     Shaman has done well riding the bus and going to
the Mall. Yesterday, Nick and I took him to the street fair. For the most
part he was good. The crowds did not bother him,and he seemed to watch Nala
for clues on how to navigate around the people,and baby carriages,and
balloons ect. He watched as I held a magnificent ,large, green Iguana. I
have always wanted an Iguana. Now I know I have to have one,but not at this
time. Shaman did bark at some dogs but not others.He was not aggressive at
all. He wanted to go and play with them. He is still young and has not
realized than he is working when we are out in public. We will have to work
on the barking issue. More trips to the dog park.  Have a great day, Mardi
and Nala,semi-retired and Shaman,gdit

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:21:09 -0400
From: "Margo and Elmo" <margo.downey at verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state
             schools
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,             the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
             <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <5A17175D0A6D44C59D4B91AE748F1536 at demoPC>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
             reply-type=original

that doesn't seem quite right to me.  So, if the Seeing Eye does follow ups

in California with graduates, they'll have to jump through hoops to provide

those services, and, I don't think the California Board has the right to
tell guide dog schools who function well and so on what they need to know
or
do to do follow-ups or home training in California.  sounds fishy to me.

margo and Elmo

----- Original Message -----
From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Craig,

Owner-trainers are exempt.

On the other hand, it will be interesting to monitor this and to see how it
shakes down.  Many schools do come into California to raise funds as well
as
to conduct some training through follow up.  Mostly, I suspect that the
board is attempting to secure licensing fees from those schools who do have
some activities in California.

The Michael Hingson Group
"Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Craig Borne
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:00 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Wow.

For a school located outside of California and training guides/handlers
outside of California, I don't see how this would be enforceable.  The
statutes cited do not apply to blind handlers, only schools.  The State
cannot dictate where a handler goes to acquire a dog, and the State cannot
override the ADA by not granting access to a handler using a guide dog from
out of State.

This would, however, effect owner/trainers in California, since before
"using" the guide, the owner/trainer would be "training" a non-guide dog.

California cannot set business regulations outside of its borders.  This
would be a very slippery slope indeed.  I smell revenue enhancing motives
for California.

Craig

Craig Borne
Baltimore, Maryland
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Have people seen this letter from the California State Board of Guide Dogs
for the Blind to out-of-state dog-guide programs? The text follows the
link.

http://www.guidedogboard.ca.gov/forms_pubs/outofstateletter.shtml

Letter to out-of-state schools
Re: Compliance with California State Law Pertaining to Guide Dogs

Dear Out-of-State School:

On July 8, 1947, Governor Earl Warren signed into law the Guide Dog Act.
This act was established to keep out maverick guide dog schools, protect
the
visually impaired by setting minimum standards of training, provide
oversight for the disposition
of donor funds and maintain minimum competency of training for licensed
guide dog instructors.

The purpose of this letter is twofold. First, the Board wishes to inform
all
out-of-state schools the statutes requiring compliance with licensure
requirements for instruction in the state of California. Second, the Board
has a process for compliance -
namely the examination for an instructor license. If a candidate for
licensure meets the minimum requirements to sit for the examination, they
are eligible for licensure status. The examination is given twice per year
and involves a one-day Written
Exam
and a one-day Oral/Practical Exam. Fingerprints are also required before
taking the examination.

First, California law requires a license for the sale or the giving of a
guide dog. Business and Professions Code section 7210 requires that:

It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, give, hire or
furnish under any other arrangement, any guide dog or seeing-eye dog or to
engage in the business or occupation of training any such dog unless he
holds a valid and unimpaired
license issued pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

Second, California law requires guide dog instructors to be licensed. An
instructor "means a person who instructs blind persons in the use of guide
dogs or who engages in the business of training, selling, hiring, or
supplying guide dogs for the blind."
California law as set forth in 16 CCR section 2284 requires:

Anyone instructing a blind person in the use of a guide dog must be
licensed
by the Board, provided, however, that a school may employ apprentices to
assist in such instruction. No apprentice shall act as an instructor except
under the direct and
immediate supervision of a licensed instructor.

Last, B&P Code Section 7213 provides that:

Violation of any provision of this chapter is a misdemeanor.

The process for obtaining an instructor license begins with an examination.
To qualify to take the examination, the individual must have the following
qualifications as set forth in Statute (B&P Code Section 7209) -- which
states the following:

[P]erson to be eligible for examination as an instructor must (1) have a
knowledge of the special problems of the blind and how to teach them, (2)
be
able to demonstrate by actual blindfold test under traffic conditions his
ability to train guide dogs with
whom a blind person would be safe, (3) be suited temperamentally and
otherwise to instruct blind persons in the use of guide dogs, and, (4) have
had at least three years actual experience, comprising such number of hours
as the Board may require,
as an instructor, and have handled twenty-two (22) man-dog units; or its
equivalent, as determined by the Board, as an apprentice under a licensed
instructor or under an instructor in a school satisfactory to the Board.

Applicants for the instructor license are required to take both a written
and practical/oral examination. Applicants must provide a 15-30 minute
video
demonstrating instruction skills. A panel of subject matter experts will
review the video and evaluate
the candidate's oral defense of said video. The five steps to licensing are
available on the Board's Web site. Applicants may also obtain the
application for examination at www.guidedogboard.ca.gov

The instructor licenses are good for one year and are renewed each year
thereafter for a fee of $100. Along with the fee, an instructor must
provide
the Board with evidence of continuing education (either 8 hours of
course/seminar attendance or 16
hours of attendance at meetings of guide dog users or organizations of the
blind).

If you have any questions about the laws cited above, please feel free to
contact me at               (916) 574-7825       . Thank you.

Sincerely,

Antonette Sorrick

ANTONETTE SORRICK
Executive Officer, State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:52:20 -0700
From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state
             schools
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,            the National Association of Guide Dog
             Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:

<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANyBSHcYOYRDmzMn4CvpYcrCgAAAEAAAALSaPweBNB5HvRLtKxfwCG0BAAAAAA==@michaelhingson.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;            charset="iso-8859-1"

I do not know what is motivating the board, but I suspect it is not so much
follow up as it might be fund raising.

The?Michael Hingson Group
???? ?Speaking?with Vision?
?????????????????Michael Hingson,?President
???????????????????????? (415) 827-4084
???????????????????info at michaelhingson.com
?????????????? ????www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader?Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Margo and Elmo
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:21 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

that doesn't seem quite right to me.  So, if the Seeing Eye does follow ups

in California with graduates, they'll have to jump through hoops to provide

those services, and, I don't think the California Board has the right to
tell guide dog schools who function well and so on what they need to know
or

do to do follow-ups or home training in California.  sounds fishy to me.

margo and Elmo

----- Original Message -----
From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Craig,

Owner-trainers are exempt.

On the other hand, it will be interesting to monitor this and to see how it
shakes down.  Many schools do come into California to raise funds as well
as
to conduct some training through follow up.  Mostly, I suspect that the
board is attempting to secure licensing fees from those schools who do have
some activities in California.

The Michael Hingson Group
"Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Craig Borne
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:00 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Wow.

For a school located outside of California and training guides/handlers
outside of California, I don't see how this would be enforceable.  The
statutes cited do not apply to blind handlers, only schools.  The State
cannot dictate where a handler goes to acquire a dog, and the State cannot
override the ADA by not granting access to a handler using a guide dog from
out of State.

This would, however, effect owner/trainers in California, since before
"using" the guide, the owner/trainer would be "training" a non-guide dog.

California cannot set business regulations outside of its borders.  This
would be a very slippery slope indeed.  I smell revenue enhancing motives
for California.

Craig

Craig Borne
Baltimore, Maryland
"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:22 PM
To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
Subject: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Have people seen this letter from the California State Board of Guide Dogs
for the Blind to out-of-state dog-guide programs? The text follows the
link.

http://www.guidedogboard.ca.gov/forms_pubs/outofstateletter.shtml

Letter to out-of-state schools
Re: Compliance with California State Law Pertaining to Guide Dogs

Dear Out-of-State School:

On July 8, 1947, Governor Earl Warren signed into law the Guide Dog Act.
This act was established to keep out maverick guide dog schools, protect
the
visually impaired by setting minimum standards of training, provide
oversight for the disposition
of donor funds and maintain minimum competency of training for licensed
guide dog instructors.

The purpose of this letter is twofold. First, the Board wishes to inform
all
out-of-state schools the statutes requiring compliance with licensure
requirements for instruction in the state of California. Second, the Board
has a process for compliance -
namely the examination for an instructor license. If a candidate for
licensure meets the minimum requirements to sit for the examination, they
are eligible for licensure status. The examination is given twice per year
and involves a one-day Written
Exam
and a one-day Oral/Practical Exam. Fingerprints are also required before
taking the examination.

First, California law requires a license for the sale or the giving of a
guide dog. Business and Professions Code section 7210 requires that:

It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, give, hire or
furnish under any other arrangement, any guide dog or seeing-eye dog or to
engage in the business or occupation of training any such dog unless he
holds a valid and unimpaired
license issued pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

Second, California law requires guide dog instructors to be licensed. An
instructor "means a person who instructs blind persons in the use of guide
dogs or who engages in the business of training, selling, hiring, or
supplying guide dogs for the blind."
California law as set forth in 16 CCR section 2284 requires:

Anyone instructing a blind person in the use of a guide dog must be
licensed
by the Board, provided, however, that a school may employ apprentices to
assist in such instruction. No apprentice shall act as an instructor except
under the direct and
immediate supervision of a licensed instructor.

Last, B&P Code Section 7213 provides that:

Violation of any provision of this chapter is a misdemeanor.

The process for obtaining an instructor license begins with an examination.
To qualify to take the examination, the individual must have the following
qualifications as set forth in Statute (B&P Code Section 7209) -- which
states the following:

[P]erson to be eligible for examination as an instructor must (1) have a
knowledge of the special problems of the blind and how to teach them, (2)
be
able to demonstrate by actual blindfold test under traffic conditions his
ability to train guide dogs with
whom a blind person would be safe, (3) be suited temperamentally and
otherwise to instruct blind persons in the use of guide dogs, and, (4) have
had at least three years actual experience, comprising such number of hours
as the Board may require,
as an instructor, and have handled twenty-two (22) man-dog units; or its
equivalent, as determined by the Board, as an apprentice under a licensed
instructor or under an instructor in a school satisfactory to the Board.

Applicants for the instructor license are required to take both a written
and practical/oral examination. Applicants must provide a 15-30 minute
video
demonstrating instruction skills. A panel of subject matter experts will
review the video and evaluate
the candidate's oral defense of said video. The five steps to licensing are
available on the Board's Web site. Applicants may also obtain the
application for examination at www.guidedogboard.ca.gov

The instructor licenses are good for one year and are renewed each year
thereafter for a fee of $100. Along with the fee, an instructor must
provide
the Board with evidence of continuing education (either 8 hours of
course/seminar attendance or 16
hours of attendance at meetings of guide dog users or organizations of the
blind).

If you have any questions about the laws cited above, please feel free to
contact me at               (916) 574-7825       . Thank you.

Sincerely,

Antonette Sorrick

ANTONETTE SORRICK
Executive Officer, State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind

_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 23:21:02 -0400
From: "Angie Matney" <leadinglabbie at mpmail.net>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state
             schools
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,             the National Association of Guide Dog
Users"
             <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <mailman.79.1237827606.17749.nagdu_nfbnet.org at nfbnet.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Michael,

I don't know. It seems like they wouldn't really make that much money.
Suppose the ten or so non-California schools each licensed threee
instructors. The board would get a one-time infusion of $7500, and then
about $3000 each year. The
statute requires schools that are licensed in California to pay a certain
amount of their administrative expenses to the "Guide Dogs for the Blind
Fund" (or whatever it's called), but these schools wouldn't be licensed
entities in CA, so they
wouldn't pay that expense. Do you think the Board would bother with this in
an attempt to raise $3000 a year? Or am I missing something?

I'm wondering if public outcry in the face of what happened at EDF has led
the Board to take these actions.

I'm concerned that "training" is not defined in the statute.

Angie

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:52:20 -0700, mhingson wrote:

>I do not know what is motivating the board, but I suspect it is not so
much
>follow up as it might be fund raising.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>     
Speaking with Vision
>                 Michael Hingson, President
>                         (415) 827-4084
>                   info at michaelhingson.com
>                   www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Margo and Elmo
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:21 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>that doesn't seem quite right to me.  So, if the Seeing Eye does follow
ups
>in California with graduates, they'll have to jump through hoops to
provide
>those services, and, I don't think the California Board has the right to
>tell guide dog schools who function well and so on what they need to know
or

>do to do follow-ups or home training in California.  sounds fishy to me.

>margo and Elmo

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Craig,

>Owner-trainers are exempt.

>On the other hand, it will be interesting to monitor this and to see how
it
>shakes down.  Many schools do come into California to raise funds as well
as
>to conduct some training through follow up.  Mostly, I suspect that the
>board is attempting to secure licensing fees from those schools who do
have
>some activities in California.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>"Speaking with Vision"
>Michael Hingson, President
>(415) 827-4084
>info at michaelhingson.com
>www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Craig Borne
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:00 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Wow.

>For a school located outside of California and training guides/handlers
>outside of California, I don't see how this would be enforceable.  The
>statutes cited do not apply to blind handlers, only schools.  The State
>cannot dictate where a handler goes to acquire a dog, and the State cannot
>override the ADA by not granting access to a handler using a guide dog
from
>out of State.

>This would, however, effect owner/trainers in California, since before
>"using" the guide, the owner/trainer would be "training" a non-guide dog.

>California cannot set business regulations outside of its borders.  This
>would be a very slippery slope indeed.  I smell revenue enhancing motives
>for California.

>Craig

>Craig Borne
>Baltimore, Maryland
>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Angie Matney
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:22 PM
>To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Have people seen this letter from the California State Board of Guide Dogs
>for the Blind to out-of-state dog-guide programs? The text follows the
link.

>http://www.guidedogboard.ca.gov/forms_pubs/outofstateletter.shtml

>Letter to out-of-state schools
>Re: Compliance with California State Law Pertaining to Guide Dogs

>Dear Out-of-State School:

>On July 8, 1947, Governor Earl Warren signed into law the Guide Dog Act.
>This act was established to keep out maverick guide dog schools, protect
the
>visually impaired by setting minimum standards of training, provide
>oversight for the disposition
>of donor funds and maintain minimum competency of training for licensed
>guide dog instructors.

>The purpose of this letter is twofold. First, the Board wishes to inform
all
>out-of-state schools the statutes requiring compliance with licensure
>requirements for instruction in the state of California. Second, the Board
>has a process for compliance -
>namely the examination for an instructor license. If a candidate for
>licensure meets the minimum requirements to sit for the examination, they
>are eligible for licensure status. The examination is given twice per year
>and involves a one-day Written
>Exam
>and a one-day Oral/Practical Exam. Fingerprints are also required before
>taking the examination.

>First, California law requires a license for the sale or the giving of a
>guide dog. Business and Professions Code section 7210 requires that:

>It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, give, hire or
>furnish under any other arrangement, any guide dog or seeing-eye dog or to
>engage in the business or occupation of training any such dog unless he
>holds a valid and unimpaired
>license issued pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

>Second, California law requires guide dog instructors to be licensed. An
>instructor "means a person who instructs blind persons in the use of guide
>dogs or who engages in the business of training, selling, hiring, or
>supplying guide dogs for the blind."
>California law as set forth in 16 CCR section 2284 requires:

>Anyone instructing a blind person in the use of a guide dog must be
licensed
>by the Board, provided, however, that a school may employ apprentices to
>assist in such instruction. No apprentice shall act as an instructor
except
>under the direct and
>immediate supervision of a licensed instructor.

>Last, B&P Code Section 7213 provides that:

>Violation of any provision of this chapter is a misdemeanor.

>The process for obtaining an instructor license begins with an
examination.
>To qualify to take the examination, the individual must have the following
>qualifications as set forth in Statute (B&P Code Section 7209) -- which
>states the following:

>[P]erson to be eligible for examination as an instructor must (1) have a
>knowledge of the special problems of the blind and how to teach them, (2)
be
>able to demonstrate by actual blindfold test under traffic conditions his
>ability to train guide dogs with
>whom a blind person would be safe, (3) be suited temperamentally and
>otherwise to instruct blind persons in the use of guide dogs, and, (4)
have
>had at least three years actual experience, comprising such number of
hours
>as the Board may require,
>as an instructor, and have handled twenty-two (22) man-dog units; or its
>equivalent, as determined by the Board, as an apprentice under a licensed
>instructor or under an instructor in a school satisfactory to the Board.

>Applicants for the instructor license are required to take both a written
>and practical/oral examination. Applicants must provide a 15-30 minute
video
>demonstrating instruction skills. A panel of subject matter experts will
>review the video and evaluate
>the candidate's oral defense of said video. The five steps to licensing
are
>available on the Board's Web site. Applicants may also obtain the
>application for examination at www.guidedogboard.ca.gov

>The instructor licenses are good for one year and are renewed each year
>thereafter for a fee of $100. Along with the fee, an instructor must
provide
>the Board with evidence of continuing education (either 8 hours of
>course/seminar attendance or 16
>hours of attendance at meetings of guide dog users or organizations of the
>blind).

>If you have any questions about the laws cited above, please feel free to
>contact me at               (916) 574-7825       . Thank you.

>Sincerely,

>Antonette Sorrick

>ANTONETTE SORRICK
>Executive Officer, State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind

>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cjborne%40comcast.net

>_______________________________________________
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>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal.

>net

>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40verizo

>n.net

>_______________________________________________
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>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal.

>net

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>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:34:52 -0700
From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state
             schools
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,            the National Association of Guide Dog
             Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:

<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANyBSHcYOYRDmzMn4CvpYcrCgAAAEAAAAL7QEluRQIVEiyBvuZbMJc0BAAAAAA==@michaelhingson.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;            charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Angie,

I think the board wishes to license schools outside California so they can
get those fees of which you speak.  They cannot nor should not prevent
follow-up, but they can try to get money from schools with reps living in
the state or which fundraise in the state.

M. H.

The?Michael Hingson Group
???? ?Speaking?with Vision?
?????????????????Michael Hingson,?President
???????????????????????? (415) 827-4084
???????????????????info at michaelhingson.com
?????????????? ????www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader?Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:21 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Michael,

I don't know. It seems like they wouldn't really make that much money.
Suppose the ten or so non-California schools each licensed threee
instructors. The board would get a one-time infusion of $7500, and then
about $3000 each year. The
statute requires schools that are licensed in California to pay a certain
amount of their administrative expenses to the "Guide Dogs for the Blind
Fund" (or whatever it's called), but these schools wouldn't be licensed
entities in CA, so they
wouldn't pay that expense. Do you think the Board would bother with this in
an attempt to raise $3000 a year? Or am I missing something?

I'm wondering if public outcry in the face of what happened at EDF has led
the Board to take these actions.

I'm concerned that "training" is not defined in the statute.

Angie

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:52:20 -0700, mhingson wrote:

>I do not know what is motivating the board, but I suspect it is not so
much
>follow up as it might be fund raising.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>     
Speaking with Vision
>                 Michael Hingson, President
>                         (415) 827-4084
>                   info at michaelhingson.com
>                   www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Margo and Elmo
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:21 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>that doesn't seem quite right to me.  So, if the Seeing Eye does follow
ups

>in California with graduates, they'll have to jump through hoops to
provide

>those services, and, I don't think the California Board has the right to
>tell guide dog schools who function well and so on what they need to know
or

>do to do follow-ups or home training in California.  sounds fishy to me.

>margo and Elmo

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Craig,

>Owner-trainers are exempt.

>On the other hand, it will be interesting to monitor this and to see how
it
>shakes down.  Many schools do come into California to raise funds as well
as
>to conduct some training through follow up.  Mostly, I suspect that the
>board is attempting to secure licensing fees from those schools who do
have
>some activities in California.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>"Speaking with Vision"
>Michael Hingson, President
>(415) 827-4084
>info at michaelhingson.com
>www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Craig Borne
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:00 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Wow.

>For a school located outside of California and training guides/handlers
>outside of California, I don't see how this would be enforceable.  The
>statutes cited do not apply to blind handlers, only schools.  The State
>cannot dictate where a handler goes to acquire a dog, and the State cannot
>override the ADA by not granting access to a handler using a guide dog
from
>out of State.

>This would, however, effect owner/trainers in California, since before
>"using" the guide, the owner/trainer would be "training" a non-guide dog.

>California cannot set business regulations outside of its borders.  This
>would be a very slippery slope indeed.  I smell revenue enhancing motives
>for California.

>Craig

>Craig Borne
>Baltimore, Maryland
>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Angie Matney
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:22 PM
>To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Have people seen this letter from the California State Board of Guide Dogs
>for the Blind to out-of-state dog-guide programs? The text follows the
link.

>http://www.guidedogboard.ca.gov/forms_pubs/outofstateletter.shtml

>Letter to out-of-state schools
>Re: Compliance with California State Law Pertaining to Guide Dogs

>Dear Out-of-State School:

>On July 8, 1947, Governor Earl Warren signed into law the Guide Dog Act.
>This act was established to keep out maverick guide dog schools, protect
the
>visually impaired by setting minimum standards of training, provide
>oversight for the disposition
>of donor funds and maintain minimum competency of training for licensed
>guide dog instructors.

>The purpose of this letter is twofold. First, the Board wishes to inform
all
>out-of-state schools the statutes requiring compliance with licensure
>requirements for instruction in the state of California. Second, the Board
>has a process for compliance -
>namely the examination for an instructor license. If a candidate for
>licensure meets the minimum requirements to sit for the examination, they
>are eligible for licensure status. The examination is given twice per year
>and involves a one-day Written
>Exam
>and a one-day Oral/Practical Exam. Fingerprints are also required before
>taking the examination.

>First, California law requires a license for the sale or the giving of a
>guide dog. Business and Professions Code section 7210 requires that:

>It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, give, hire or
>furnish under any other arrangement, any guide dog or seeing-eye dog or to
>engage in the business or occupation of training any such dog unless he
>holds a valid and unimpaired
>license issued pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

>Second, California law requires guide dog instructors to be licensed. An
>instructor "means a person who instructs blind persons in the use of guide
>dogs or who engages in the business of training, selling, hiring, or
>supplying guide dogs for the blind."
>California law as set forth in 16 CCR section 2284 requires:

>Anyone instructing a blind person in the use of a guide dog must be
licensed
>by the Board, provided, however, that a school may employ apprentices to
>assist in such instruction. No apprentice shall act as an instructor
except
>under the direct and
>immediate supervision of a licensed instructor.

>Last, B&P Code Section 7213 provides that:

>Violation of any provision of this chapter is a misdemeanor.

>The process for obtaining an instructor license begins with an
examination.
>To qualify to take the examination, the individual must have the following
>qualifications as set forth in Statute (B&P Code Section 7209) -- which
>states the following:

>[P]erson to be eligible for examination as an instructor must (1) have a
>knowledge of the special problems of the blind and how to teach them, (2)
be
>able to demonstrate by actual blindfold test under traffic conditions his
>ability to train guide dogs with
>whom a blind person would be safe, (3) be suited temperamentally and
>otherwise to instruct blind persons in the use of guide dogs, and, (4)
have
>had at least three years actual experience, comprising such number of
hours
>as the Board may require,
>as an instructor, and have handled twenty-two (22) man-dog units; or its
>equivalent, as determined by the Board, as an apprentice under a licensed
>instructor or under an instructor in a school satisfactory to the Board.

>Applicants for the instructor license are required to take both a written
>and practical/oral examination. Applicants must provide a 15-30 minute
video
>demonstrating instruction skills. A panel of subject matter experts will
>review the video and evaluate
>the candidate's oral defense of said video. The five steps to licensing
are
>available on the Board's Web site. Applicants may also obtain the
>application for examination at www.guidedogboard.ca.gov

>The instructor licenses are good for one year and are renewed each year
>thereafter for a fee of $100. Along with the fee, an instructor must
provide
>the Board with evidence of continuing education (either 8 hours of
>course/seminar attendance or 16
>hours of attendance at meetings of guide dog users or organizations of the
>blind).

>If you have any questions about the laws cited above, please feel free to
>contact me at               (916) 574-7825       . Thank you.

>Sincerely,

>Antonette Sorrick

>ANTONETTE SORRICK
>Executive Officer, State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind

>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/cjborne%40comcast..ne

t

>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal

..
>net

>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/margo.downey%40veriz

o
>n.net

>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/mhingson%40sbcglobal

..
>net

>_______________________________________________
>nagdu mailing list
>nagdu at nfbnet.org
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
>To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
>http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/leadinglabbie%40mpma

il.net

_______________________________________________
nagdu mailing list
nagdu at nfbnet.org
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/listinfo/nagdu_nfbnet.org
To unsubscribe, change your list options or get your account info for
nagdu:
http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/info%40michaelhingson

..com

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2009 00:33:50 -0400
From: "Angie Matney" <angie.matney at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state
             schools
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,            the National Association of Guide Dog
             Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID: <49c71129.050cc00a.64e8.ffffb56d at mx.google.com>
Content-Type: text/plain;            charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Michael,

Am I understanding correctly that they could only get the instructor
licensing fees, not the administrative fees?

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:35 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Angie,

I think the board wishes to license schools outside California so they can
get those fees of which you speak.  They cannot nor should not prevent
follow-up, but they can try to get money from schools with reps living in
the state or which fundraise in the state.

M. H.

The?Michael Hingson Group
???? ?Speaking?with Vision?
?????????????????Michael Hingson,?President
???????????????????????? (415) 827-4084
???????????????????info at michaelhingson.com
?????????????? ????www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader?Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:21 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Michael,

I don't know. It seems like they wouldn't really make that much money.
Suppose the ten or so non-California schools each licensed threee
instructors. The board would get a one-time infusion of $7500, and then
about $3000 each year. The
statute requires schools that are licensed in California to pay a certain
amount of their administrative expenses to the "Guide Dogs for the Blind
Fund" (or whatever it's called), but these schools wouldn't be licensed
entities in CA, so they
wouldn't pay that expense. Do you think the Board would bother with this in
an attempt to raise $3000 a year? Or am I missing something?

I'm wondering if public outcry in the face of what happened at EDF has led
the Board to take these actions.

I'm concerned that "training" is not defined in the statute.

Angie

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:52:20 -0700, mhingson wrote:

>I do not know what is motivating the board, but I suspect it is not so
much
>follow up as it might be fund raising.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>     
Speaking with Vision
>                 Michael Hingson, President
>                         (415) 827-4084
>                   info at michaelhingson.com
>                   www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Margo and Elmo
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:21 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>that doesn't seem quite right to me.  So, if the Seeing Eye does follow
ups

>in California with graduates, they'll have to jump through hoops to
provide

>those services, and, I don't think the California Board has the right to
>tell guide dog schools who function well and so on what they need to know
or

>do to do follow-ups or home training in California.  sounds fishy to me.

>margo and Elmo

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Craig,

>Owner-trainers are exempt.

>On the other hand, it will be interesting to monitor this and to see how
it
>shakes down.  Many schools do come into California to raise funds as well
as
>to conduct some training through follow up.  Mostly, I suspect that the
>board is attempting to secure licensing fees from those schools who do
have
>some activities in California.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>"Speaking with Vision"
>Michael Hingson, President
>(415) 827-4084
>info at michaelhingson.com
>www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Craig Borne
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:00 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Wow.

>For a school located outside of California and training guides/handlers
>outside of California, I don't see how this would be enforceable.  The
>statutes cited do not apply to blind handlers, only schools.  The State
>cannot dictate where a handler goes to acquire a dog, and the State cannot
>override the ADA by not granting access to a handler using a guide dog
from
>out of State.

>This would, however, effect owner/trainers in California, since before
>"using" the guide, the owner/trainer would be "training" a non-guide dog.

>California cannot set business regulations outside of its borders.  This
>would be a very slippery slope indeed.  I smell revenue enhancing motives
>for California.

>Craig

>Craig Borne
>Baltimore, Maryland
>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Angie Matney
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:22 PM
>To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Have people seen this letter from the California State Board of Guide Dogs
>for the Blind to out-of-state dog-guide programs? The text follows the
link.

>http://www.guidedogboard.ca.gov/forms_pubs/outofstateletter.shtml

>Letter to out-of-state schools
>Re: Compliance with California State Law Pertaining to Guide Dogs

>Dear Out-of-State School:

>On July 8, 1947, Governor Earl Warren signed into law the Guide Dog Act.
>This act was established to keep out maverick guide dog schools, protect
the
>visually impaired by setting minimum standards of training, provide
>oversight for the disposition
>of donor funds and maintain minimum competency of training for licensed
>guide dog instructors.

>The purpose of this letter is twofold. First, the Board wishes to inform
all
>out-of-state schools the statutes requiring compliance with licensure
>requirements for instruction in the state of California. Second, the Board
>has a process for compliance -
>namely the examination for an instructor license. If a candidate for
>licensure meets the minimum requirements to sit for the examination, they
>are eligible for licensure status. The examination is given twice per year
>and involves a one-day Written
>Exam
>and a one-day Oral/Practical Exam. Fingerprints are also required before
>taking the examination.

>First, California law requires a license for the sale or the giving of a
>guide dog. Business and Professions Code section 7210 requires that:

>It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, give, hire or
>furnish under any other arrangement, any guide dog or seeing-eye dog or to
>engage in the business or occupation of training any such dog unless he
>holds a valid and unimpaired
>license issued pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

>Second, California law requires guide dog instructors to be licensed. An
>instructor "means a person who instructs blind persons in the use of guide
>dogs or who engages in the business of training, selling, hiring, or
>supplying guide dogs for the blind."
>California law as set forth in 16 CCR section 2284 requires:

>Anyone instructing a blind person in the use of a guide dog must be
licensed
>by the Board, provided, however, that a school may employ apprentices to
>assist in such instruction. No apprentice shall act as an instructor
except
>under the direct and
>immediate supervision of a licensed instructor.

>Last, B&P Code Section 7213 provides that:

>Violation of any provision of this chapter is a misdemeanor.

>The process for obtaining an instructor license begins with an
examination.
>To qualify to take the examination, the individual must have the following
>qualifications as set forth in Statute (B&P Code Section 7209) -- which
>states the following:

>[P]erson to be eligible for examination as an instructor must (1) have a
>knowledge of the special problems of the blind and how to teach them, (2)
be
>able to demonstrate by actual blindfold test under traffic conditions his
>ability to train guide dogs with
>whom a blind person would be safe, (3) be suited temperamentally and
>otherwise to instruct blind persons in the use of guide dogs, and, (4)
have
>had at least three years actual experience, comprising such number of
hours
>as the Board may require,
>as an instructor, and have handled twenty-two (22) man-dog units; or its
>equivalent, as determined by the Board, as an apprentice under a licensed
>instructor or under an instructor in a school satisfactory to the Board.

>Applicants for the instructor license are required to take both a written
>and practical/oral examination. Applicants must provide a 15-30 minute
video
>demonstrating instruction skills. A panel of subject matter experts will
>review the video and evaluate
>the candidate's oral defense of said video. The five steps to licensing
are
>available on the Board's Web site. Applicants may also obtain the
>application for examination at www.guidedogboard.ca.gov

>The instructor licenses are good for one year and are renewed each year
>thereafter for a fee of $100. Along with the fee, an instructor must
provide
>the Board with evidence of continuing education (either 8 hours of
>course/seminar attendance or 16
>hours of attendance at meetings of guide dog users or organizations of the
>blind).

>If you have any questions about the laws cited above, please feel free to
>contact me at               (916) 574-7825       . Thank you.

>Sincerely,

>Antonette Sorrick

>ANTONETTE SORRICK
>Executive Officer, State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind

>_______________________________________________
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Message: 7
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 2009 22:10:37 -0700
From: "Michael Hingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state
             schools
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,            the National Association of Guide Dog
             Users'" <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Message-ID:

<!&!AAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAAAAAANyBSHcYOYRDmzMn4CvpYcrCgAAAEAAAADggbRy4YkZMvZIHJsFHOqMBAAAAAA==@michaelhingson.com>

Content-Type: text/plain;            charset="iso-8859-1"

Angie,

I am not sure. I suspect it depends on exactly what activities any given
school is performing in CA.

The?Michael Hingson Group
???? ?Speaking?with Vision?
?????????????????Michael Hingson,?President
???????????????????????? (415) 827-4084
???????????????????info at michaelhingson.com
?????????????? ????www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader?Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 9:34 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Michael,

Am I understanding correctly that they could only get the instructor
licensing fees, not the administrative fees?

Angie

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 11:35 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Angie,

I think the board wishes to license schools outside California so they can
get those fees of which you speak.  They cannot nor should not prevent
follow-up, but they can try to get money from schools with reps living in
the state or which fundraise in the state.

M. H.

The?Michael Hingson Group
???? ?Speaking?with Vision?
?????????????????Michael Hingson,?President
???????????????????????? (415) 827-4084
???????????????????info at michaelhingson.com
?????????????? ????www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader?Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Angie Matney
Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 8:21 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

Hi Michael,

I don't know. It seems like they wouldn't really make that much money.
Suppose the ten or so non-California schools each licensed threee
instructors. The board would get a one-time infusion of $7500, and then
about $3000 each year. The
statute requires schools that are licensed in California to pay a certain
amount of their administrative expenses to the "Guide Dogs for the Blind
Fund" (or whatever it's called), but these schools wouldn't be licensed
entities in CA, so they
wouldn't pay that expense. Do you think the Board would bother with this in
an attempt to raise $3000 a year? Or am I missing something?

I'm wondering if public outcry in the face of what happened at EDF has led
the Board to take these actions.

I'm concerned that "training" is not defined in the statute.

Angie

On Sun, 22 Mar 2009 19:52:20 -0700, mhingson wrote:

>I do not know what is motivating the board, but I suspect it is not so
much
>follow up as it might be fund raising.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>     
Speaking with Vision
>                 Michael Hingson, President
>                         (415) 827-4084
>                   info at michaelhingson.com
>                   www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Margo and Elmo
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 5:21 PM
>To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>that doesn't seem quite right to me.  So, if the Seeing Eye does follow
ups

>in California with graduates, they'll have to jump through hoops to
provide

>those services, and, I don't think the California Board has the right to
>tell guide dog schools who function well and so on what they need to know
or

>do to do follow-ups or home training in California.  sounds fishy to me.

>margo and Elmo

>----- Original Message -----
>From: "mhingson" <info at michaelhingson.com>
>To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
><nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 10:41 AM
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Craig,

>Owner-trainers are exempt.

>On the other hand, it will be interesting to monitor this and to see how
it
>shakes down.  Many schools do come into California to raise funds as well
as
>to conduct some training through follow up.  Mostly, I suspect that the
>board is attempting to secure licensing fees from those schools who do
have
>some activities in California.

>The Michael Hingson Group
>"Speaking with Vision"
>Michael Hingson, President
>(415) 827-4084
>info at michaelhingson.com
>www.michaelhingson.com

>for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
>http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Craig Borne
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 6:00 PM
>To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>Subject: Re: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Wow.

>For a school located outside of California and training guides/handlers
>outside of California, I don't see how this would be enforceable.  The
>statutes cited do not apply to blind handlers, only schools.  The State
>cannot dictate where a handler goes to acquire a dog, and the State cannot
>override the ADA by not granting access to a handler using a guide dog
from
>out of State.

>This would, however, effect owner/trainers in California, since before
>"using" the guide, the owner/trainer would be "training" a non-guide dog.

>California cannot set business regulations outside of its borders.  This
>would be a very slippery slope indeed.  I smell revenue enhancing motives
>for California.

>Craig

>Craig Borne
>Baltimore, Maryland
>"A long habit of not thinking a thing wrong, gives it a superficial
>appearance of being right, and raises at first a formidable outcry in
>defense of custom."  --Thomas Paine, Common Sense

>-----Original Message-----
>From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>Of Angie Matney
>Sent: Friday, March 20, 2009 8:22 PM
>To: nagdu at nfbnet.org
>Subject: [nagdu] CA State Board tries to regulate out-of-state schools

>Have people seen this letter from the California State Board of Guide Dogs
>for the Blind to out-of-state dog-guide programs? The text follows the
link.

>http://www.guidedogboard.ca.gov/forms_pubs/outofstateletter.shtml

>Letter to out-of-state schools
>Re: Compliance with California State Law Pertaining to Guide Dogs

>Dear Out-of-State School:

>On July 8, 1947, Governor Earl Warren signed into law the Guide Dog Act.
>This act was established to keep out maverick guide dog schools, protect
the
>visually impaired by setting minimum standards of training, provide
>oversight for the disposition
>of donor funds and maintain minimum competency of training for licensed
>guide dog instructors.

>The purpose of this letter is twofold. First, the Board wishes to inform
all
>out-of-state schools the statutes requiring compliance with licensure
>requirements for instruction in the state of California. Second, the Board
>has a process for compliance -
>namely the examination for an instructor license. If a candidate for
>licensure meets the minimum requirements to sit for the examination, they
>are eligible for licensure status. The examination is given twice per year
>and involves a one-day Written
>Exam
>and a one-day Oral/Practical Exam. Fingerprints are also required before
>taking the examination.

>First, California law requires a license for the sale or the giving of a
>guide dog. Business and Professions Code section 7210 requires that:

>It shall be unlawful for any person to sell, offer for sale, give, hire or
>furnish under any other arrangement, any guide dog or seeing-eye dog or to
>engage in the business or occupation of training any such dog unless he
>holds a valid and unimpaired
>license issued pursuant to the provisions of this chapter.

>Second, California law requires guide dog instructors to be licensed. An
>instructor "means a person who instructs blind persons in the use of guide
>dogs or who engages in the business of training, selling, hiring, or
>supplying guide dogs for the blind."
>California law as set forth in 16 CCR section 2284 requires:

>Anyone instructing a blind person in the use of a guide dog must be
licensed
>by the Board, provided, however, that a school may employ apprentices to
>assist in such instruction. No apprentice shall act as an instructor
except
>under the direct and
>immediate supervision of a licensed instructor.

>Last, B&P Code Section 7213 provides that:

>Violation of any provision of this chapter is a misdemeanor.

>The process for obtaining an instructor license begins with an
examination.
>To qualify to take the examination, the individual must have the following
>qualifications as set forth in Statute (B&P Code Section 7209) -- which
>states the following:

>[P]erson to be eligible for examination as an instructor must (1) have a
>knowledge of the special problems of the blind and how to teach them, (2)
be
>able to demonstrate by actual blindfold test under traffic conditions his
>ability to train guide dogs with
>whom a blind person would be safe, (3) be suited temperamentally and
>otherwise to instruct blind persons in the use of guide dogs, and, (4)
have
>had at least three years actual experience, comprising such number of
hours
>as the Board may require,
>as an instructor, and have handled twenty-two (22) man-dog units; or its
>equivalent, as determined by the Board, as an apprentice under a licensed
>instructor or under an instructor in a school satisfactory to the Board.

>Applicants for the instructor license are required to take both a written
>and practical/oral examination. Applicants must provide a 15-30 minute
video
>demonstrating instruction skills. A panel of subject matter experts will
>review the video and evaluate
>the candidate's oral defense of said video. The five steps to licensing
are
>available on the Board's Web site. Applicants may also obtain the
>application for examination at www.guidedogboard.ca.gov

>The instructor licenses are good for one year and are renewed each year
>thereafter for a fee of $100. Along with the fee, an instructor must
provide
>the Board with evidence of continuing education (either 8 hours of
>course/seminar attendance or 16
>hours of attendance at meetings of guide dog users or organizations of the
>blind).

>If you have any questions about the laws cited above, please feel free to
>contact me at               (916) 574-7825       . Thank you.

>Sincerely,

>Antonette Sorrick

>ANTONETTE SORRICK
>Executive Officer, State Board of Guide Dogs for the Blind

>_______________________________________________
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