[nagdu] vet reports and other issues

[mhingson]

Genine and all,

Thanks for your thoughtful post.  I pose this point.  I am not sure that
even if the school keeps ownership of the dog that it can compel students
any differently than if the grad owns the dog unless contracts between the
school and the grad are different than what I believe.  In this discussion I
urge that people think carefully about whether or not there has been real
intimidation or people are calling other things intimidation or threatening.

The Michael Hingson Group
     “Speaking with Vision”
                 Michael Hingson, President
                         (415) 827-4084
                   info at michaelhingson.com
                   www.michaelhingson.com


for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jenine Stanley
Sent: Sunday, May 17, 2009 2:01 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] vet reports and other issues

I heartily agree with Mike here in that I'd like to see instances, painful
as they may be, in which someone was truly intimidated by his or her school.
I will not disagree that there are certain staff, and even certain policies
at every guide dog school, be they during training in the residence or after
training, that will seem to someone patronizing, custodial or insulting.
Let's face it, some truly are all of those things. 

Couple other points I'd like to make. Laurie's analogy was well meant but in
the case of a guide dog school graduate versus a puppy raiser or breeder
keeper, it's comparing apples to oranges. 

The puppy raiser and breeder keeper are obligated under the terms of their
volunteer service in caring for, and here's the important part, the sole
property of the school. If you own your dog as a grad, you are not under the
same obligations. I am sure that those who raise puppies and care for
breeder dogs from The Seeing Eye have restrictions, reporting requirements,
etc., that grads will never have and if those people do not follow the
requirements, they will no longer be considered for puppy raising or breeder
keeping. 

Marion's analogy about buying a Ford doesn't  quite work either because we
do not purchase our dogs. Even when we give a small payment, something I
happen to think has great merit, we are buy no means paying for the costs of
dog, training, room and board or services of a field instructor for home
training. The dog is being provided to us as a service. I know, I know, most
schools, mine included, state that the dog is a gift. It's a service that
happens to be free, not unlike state rehabilitation assistance. In some
state rehab situations, when you are given equipment let's say, you are
given it outright and expected to maintain it with any needed repairs,
upgrades or maintenance agreements coming out of your pocket. The equipment
is yours though with which to do whatever you want. Some state rehab
organizations ask you to assist with some financial contribution to the item
if possible, in which case the above type of agreement is even more likely. 

Then there are the agreements in which you receive the device but have
certain obligations from simple reporting, taking part in surveys, etc. to
returning the device to the agency if not using it. 

Here's a debate for you. If an organization was giving away cars and you
legally owned the car after you took title to it, would they have the right
to ask you for anything related to the car? How far can an organization go
in requiring things when it provides its services for free or a minimal fee?


What about comparing a guide dog, a living being, to adopting a child? I
know, not a good comparison due to the legal implications when dealing with
minors versus animals, but interesting to think about. 

This is one reason I like this list. Usually calm, reasonable debate <grin>


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