[nagdu] Missing guide dog found struck by car

Thu May 28 17:03:29 UTC 2009

Rebecca,

I don't know about Europe, but since I grew up in the uncivilized rural part
of the west, I get really huffy about all the city rules/laws/customs that
don't acknowledge that dogs are dogs.  Also the assumption that any dog not
on leash is going to automatically cause trouble or get itself killed.  When
I point out the "under control" side of most leash laws, people just seem to
think that means having the dog tied to you by a leash.  Out in the small
towns, of course, dogs pretty much run around at will, and they're expected
to have reasonable manners while they're doing it and to not get themselves
hit by cars.  It happens, of course, but usually because the driver is
speeding or not watching out.  Drivers are expected, informally, at least,
to watch out for dogs, cats, cows, horses, flocks of sheep, etc., as they
are for kids.  Or as city drivers are for bikes.

So maybe it's just a cultural difference in how dogs are seen, like the
difference between our American cultural view and the Islamic view, in which
they are unclean just by being dogs.

Dogs are such social animals, and they have had long years of being social
with humans, so I think that letting them be dogs in a human society is
fine, as long as the humans aren't weird about it.  If a human can't be
responsible for his/her dog, then blame the human, not the dog.  Of course,
once the human has ruined the dog, the dog does have to be dealt with.
Sigh.  But where I grew up the social consequences of not knowing how to be
with your dog are pretty harsh.  /smile/

Of course, more urban environments do require different habits and ways of
managing any animal, or kid, or bicycle.  On the busy road we walk along or
cross to get to our favorite playground, it would be madness to not have a
death grip on the leash, with a few extra wraps around the wrist just to be
sure...  Sometimes when we're back in less hazardous territory, it takes me
forever to escape the leash myself.  Letting a dog run through a mall at
will -- especially if there's a food court -- would create havoc, especially
if everyone did it.  Then again, if the dogs are all conditioned socially
not to raid the food court and if the people are used to having dogs walk
around in that context, I suppose it could work...  Dunno.

Well, those are just some thougts.  It's an interesting question.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)
Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 9:45 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Missing guide dog found struck by car

I find this interesting too. 
I think, and I'd really like input from European folks on this that dogs
are allowed to run off-leash for the following reasons; 
1. There are more places for both pet as well as working dogs to run
safely, i.e. not as much traffic of either human or vehicular nature. 
2. The expectation is that sighted help and sighted help of an
appropriate nature is always obtainable at the time it is needed. 
Anybody want to talk to this? 

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Julie J
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 7:00 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Missing guide dog found struck by car

I find it interesting that guide dogs in other countries are allowed to
run off leash.  the programs there train a totally reliable recall with
a whistle.

Monty has an amazing recall.  But I really can't claim credit, he came
to me with it.  I've just practiced it.  He has gotten out three times,
I think. 
I just call him and he comes immediately to me at top speed.

Julie

----- Original Message -----
From: "The Pawpower Pack" <pawpower4me at gmail.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Sunday, May 24, 2009 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Missing guide dog found struck by car

> Tami,
>
> I agree with you about lots of off leash time for training purposes.
I 
> think, sometimes, especially with assistance dogs that off leash  time
is 
> such a rare treat that when a dog gets loose he is too busy
experiencing 
> all those fun things like sniffing and running free and  doing those 
> things is not as rewarding as returning to the handler.
>
> I work on recall from day one with my dogs, and make the recall a very

> high-value exercise.
>
> Also with my border collie, I did some herding and I needed to be able
to 
> call her off of the sheep to return to me; training her to do this 
> ensured she has a fantastic recall.
>
> I do think it's important to keep dogs secured etc. but accidents do 
> happen, sadly.
>
>
> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>
> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
> "Life breaks us all, but afterwards, many of us are strongest at the 
> broken places." -- Ernest Hemingway
>  pawpower4me at gmail.com
>
> MSN: Brisomania at Hotmail.com
> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
> _______________________________________________
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