[nagdu] ranting

Mon Oct 19 19:04:01 UTC 2009

Well said, Linda.

Lora, I'm so sorry that it is so difficult for you to resolve Trice's issues
and that the school is not taking responsibility but instead trying to blame
you when you're doing what they tell you to.  So frustrating!  I hope that
by contacting the director you can get better results.  You've put an awful
lot into this dog, more than you should have to with a professionally raised
and trained guide dog.  Hugs.

To me, it does sound like a fear aggression issue.  Since I'm not there, I
can't say for sure.  It does sound, though, like Trice has some anxiety
issues and is very afraid of things.  Fear aggression is much more difficult
to fix than normal aggression.  Getting it under control requires therapy
more than what one considers training.  It is especially difficult to
diagnose if you don't know enough of the dog's history to know what caused
it and what the dog's triggers are.  It is completely unpredictable, and the
dog can go from sweet and peaceful to vicious attack mode in an instant.  No
posturing or warning to give the handler time to gain control, just a full
out attack on the spot.  Ugh!  I know quite a few people with rescue dogs --
including my roomie Daisy's dad -- with the problem.  Pet owners can deal
with the problem by not putting the dog in a setting where it can cause
problems.  A guide dog handler really can't do that, or what would be the
point?  Can't really just avoid people and dogs and public settings and
co-workers coming into your office.

I wish I had something positive to offer, but it does sound like the lunging
and snarling is an issue that does have to be dealt with as soon as is
humanly possible.  I can't imagine having to face this with your first two
dogs in a row.  My heart goes out to you.

Best wishes, and do keep us all posted.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Linda Gwizdak
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 3:43 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting

Hi Lora,
Hope you can resolve things with your dog.  Does your dog only do this when 
he is under a desk or table? It sounds like a fear issue to me.  Everyone is

right in that this issue MUST be resolved ASAP.

When I got a dog at Eye Dog long time ago, there was a woman in my class who

got a large male Shepherd.  The dog was fine in class but wasn't after she 
returned home.  The dog began displaying aggressive behavior towards people.

Then the dog bit the lady's doctor. She then returned the dog to the school.

While an instructor was evaluating the dog in the downtown area, a woman 
walked up to pet the dog and the dog snapped at her.  The dog did not go out

as a guide - I don't know what then happened with that dog. I also was 
matched with a dog and by the fourth day of training, the dog attacked 
another student's dog without any provocation. It happened in front of a 
trainer and he had me give a hard correction.  It happened again and I told 
them that I couldn't go home with a dog with this problem as I associate 
with other guide dog users all the time.  I then switched dogs and continued

my training with the neew match.  I later found out that the first dog had 
this problem - she attacked a dog in the van when she was being picked up 
from her puppy home.  The trainers thought they licked the problem. Well 
no - she was then dropped from the program and placed in a pet home where 
she was the only dog.

Aggression is nothing to play around with -it is dead serious and could lead

to you being on the receiving end of a lawsuit.

You probably did nothing wrong. Sometimes things come up with a dog that 
nobody notices while the dog is either in its puppy home or at the school in

training.  These things are sometimes unexpected and will show up later on 
after the team is home.

I'm sure that Leader as well as other schools would not send out a dogg that

is known to have aggression problems. All the schools want to be responsible

and have the team suceed.

Linda and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Julie J" <julielj at windstream.net>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, October 17, 2009 6:11 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] ranting

> Lora,
>
> I'm sorry to hear about your difficulties.  You really haven't had an easy

> time of things.
>
> No, I don't think this is normal first year behavior.  What you are 
> describing is pretty serious aggression.  If you think there's any chance 
> that he would bite if given the opportunity please, please stop working 
> him, get a trainer from the school or a behaviorist that specializes in 
> aggression to help you ASAP.
>
> I'm sorry you are going through this.  Hugs,
> Julie
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Lora" <blindhistory at gmail.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 8:17 PM
> Subject: [nagdu] ranting
>
>
>> It has been a hard couple of days. Trice my dog guide lounged 2-3 feet 
>> and
>> showed his teeth while barking and growling. He did this to a person who
>> said hi to me in my office at work. His barking behavior is getting 
>> worse. I
>> think the only reason he didn't attack the person was because he ran into
>> the desk (he was laying under the desk when this happened) I've tried
>> correcting him I've tried telling him the situation was ok and walking up

>> to
>> whatever he is scared of.
>>
>> What problems have people had in their first year? Is this normal break 
>> in
>> stuff?
>>
>> -- 
>> Lora and Trice
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