[nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI

Peter Donahue pdonahue1 at sbcglobal.net
Tue Sep 1 05:02:13 UTC 2009


Hello again Nicole and listers,

    Regardless of its level any dog with noise-related issues should not be 
trained for guide work.

Peter Donahue

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:43 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI


JMO, but I think that an MRI machine is much noisier than traffic.  Also,
the MRI is almost non-stop for quite a long time sometimes.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:28 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI

Hello Nicole and listers,

    While these machines were rather noisy all of my dogs tolerated them
without any trouble. If they couldn't tolerate a noisy CT or MRI scanner I'm
not sure I'd want them guiding me through noisy rush-hour traffic in
downtown San Antonio. I believe the ability to handle the stress of noisy
situations is one thing the dogs are tested for in screening them for guide
work so why worry about it? If they can't handle all types of noisy
situations their ability to function as guides should be questioned.

Peter Donahue


----- Original Message -----
From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI


Was it one of those extremely  noisy MRI's?  If so, do you know how your
dogs responded?  That is one of the main reasons that I do not take Lexia in
the MRI room; the particular machine or rather type of machine is extremely
noisy, and Lexia does not like noise like that for an extended period of
time.

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Peter Donahue
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:59 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: [nagdu] Guide Dogs and MRI

Hello again everyone,

    I have had both kinds of MRI scans and had my dogs in the scanning room
with me. As long as the dog was a ways back from the machine and secured in
some way like I described previously. Everything was okay.

My first MRI was done in the early 1990s and was a closed procedure. I had
Ogden at the time and he accompanied me in the scanning room. Again there
weren't any problems as he was secured away from the machine, but could
still see and hear me. Before we determine that service animal accessibility
issues cannot be mitigated with modifications or some kind we need to be
sure that there isn't someone out there that was able to undergo a
particular procedure with their dog present where the procedure is being
done. I've read a number of messages from individuals who didn't believe it
was safe to have their dog present during an MRI scan and that this
accessibility concern was unmodifyable. Then along comes Pete Donahue to say
"Tain't necessarily so" and goes on to describe his three MRI scans he
underwent with his dog present. I'm not trying to start an argument but
wanted to raise the cautionary "Red flag" when it comes to determining
whether or not one's dog should be present during certain non-sterryl
procedures such as MRI scans. Sterility issues aside this is a matter for
the individual guide dog user to determine.

Peter Donahue
 ----- Original Message -----
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (IS)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at ngc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities


What Tracy says is correct.
I went with a friend who needed an MRI done and nothing metal was
allowed in the room.
The MRI tech even asked if either of us was wearing an IUD, because
apparently the old kind of IUD's which are not made anymore but which
some women still have, will cause some real problems.
Perhaps if you could have your dog not wear *any* metal at all and still
guide, that would work, though I understand that a person must remain
still during the MRI, so I do not know how you'd correct a dog if he/she
were to act up. My friend was instructed not to talk, though I could
talk to her which I did. She was in the type of MRI which has less
resolution but which is also less confining. Perhaps the other kind of
MRI, the closed kind has different reqirements though as the technology
is the same, I don't see how this could be.


-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 8:14 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities

I'm not Nicole, but...
No metal object is allowed past a certain point in the MRI rooms,
because of the powerful magnet that makes the MRI work.  A few years
ago, a child was killed in an MRI machine because someone left a soda
can in the room, and when they turned on the machine, the can flew into
it.
My dog has 2 metal objects on him when he's working, his harness and his
collar.  So he can't come into the MRI room; he has to stay outside,
possibly in the changing room.  But there won't be anyone there to watch
him, and he could bother the next patient to come in, because she's
getting ready while I'm still being scanned.
For these reasons, I either bring someone with me to watch the dog in
the waiting room while I get the MRI, or I'd leave the dog at home if no
one could come with me.
Tracy

> Nicole,
>     I can understand why you would not bring the dog in a hyperbaric
> chamber but not sure why not in an MRI room. Could you share more
> about this?
>
> Marion
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 10:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities
>
>
>> To answer your question, an MRI room and a hyper baric  chamber.  No,

>> it is not safe for the dog to go in a hyperbaric chamber.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Marion & Martin
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 4:24 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: [nagdu] Service Animals in Health Care Failities
>>
>> Nicole,
>>    Your message raises another question for me. What is the type of
>> area at your doctor's office in which you are restricted from taking
>> your dog? I feel it is important for everyone to know that, according

>> to the Centers for Disease Control's guidance on this, there are very

>> few areas in which a service animal "poses a direct threat that
>> cannot be mitigated by a modification of policies, practices, and
>> procedures". These places are those in which everyone must take
>> "universal precautions, i.e., wear gloves, gowns, & masks. It is not
>> reasonable to expect a service animal to undergo such precautions.
>> The entire document is attached to this message.
>>
>> Fraternally yours,
>> Marion
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Nicole B. Torcolini" <ntorcolini at wavecable.com>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog
Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:34 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>>
>>
>>> For those times that Lexia is out of the harness, but I still need
>>> people to know that she is a guide dog, she has a vest that I bought

>>> and sewed two patches on; I don't remember what the patches say.  .

>>> An example of a time that I would use it is I take her to the doctor

>>> with me and have to leave her with someone because she can not go
>>> into a certain area.
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf Of Julie J
>>> Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 8:04 AM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] The Requirement of a Harness
>>>
>>> Marion,
>>>
>>> *let's consider our stays in hotels. During convention, I always
>>> give my dog a day off in the middle of the convention. However, our
>>> policy requires us to not leave our dog unattended in the rooms.
>>> Therefore, I allow my dog to accompany me out of harness. From your
>>> perspective, would this be unethical?
>>>
>>> *
>>> For me this is not something I would do.  When I went to convention
>>> with Belle I did give her time off, but I did have her harness on
>>> while I used my cane and took her along on leash.
>>>
>>> *suppose I want to relieve my
>>> dog. Should I be required to harness my dog to take her out if I do
>>> not wish to work her? * Again for me it would depend on where I was,

>>> how far it was to the place to relieve her and what I would have to
>>> go through to get there.  At a large, no pets hotel, with a long way

>>> to go to get outside, yes I would probably put the harness on
>>> whether or not I was working her or using my cane.
>>>
>>> *And, if while I am out, I decide to stop into the restaurant to get

>>> a couple of cups of coffee to take back to my room for merry and me,

>>> should I be restricted from entering into the restaurant if my dog
>>> is not in harness?
>>> * Restricted, I don't know.  Again I would not be comfortable taking

>>> my guide dog into a restaurant out of harness.
>>> *Does my dog pose any greater threat to those in the restaurant if
>>> she is not in harness?* No, not at all.  But I don't think that is
>>> the issue.
>>>
>>> *    While I am at work and the dog is lying under my desk, should I
be
>>> required to keep my dog in harness to satisfy some ethical
>>> consideration?
>>> *
>>> no.  That is your space.
>>>
>>> *Some schools and even more users train their dogs to guide on leash

>>> without the harness.  Again, if I am at work and wish to get a drink

>>> or step outside for some fresh air, should I be required to put the
>>> harness on my dog?* Required? no, I don't think so, but again I
>>> think I would put the harness on to do these things.  I also teach
>>> my dogs to leash guide, but even if I am using leash guiding in a
>>> public situation, I still have the dog in harness.
>>>
>>> I don't think it's an easy distinction to make, when to put on the
>>> harness and when not to.  I think Ann Edie said it all better than I

>>> could ever explain in her post from last week or the week before.  I

>>> don't think that we should be required to have our dogs in harness
>>> in particular situations.
>>> I do think we need to make every effort to make sure that the public

>>> knows that our guide dogs are guide dogs.  I think this is best done

>>> by having them wear their harnesses.  Incidentally I also think that

>>> other types of service dogs should wear a vest or other identifying
>>> equipment, not because it is required, but because it is an easy way

>>> to identify them as service
>>> dogs.   It's like a name tag.  Sure people can do a job without a
name
>>> tag,
>>> but doesn't it make things easier for the public when you can be
>>> easily identified?
>>>
>>> I definitely don't think we need more rules about when or where or
>>> how to handle our guide dogs, but at the same time I think we need
>>> to do everything in our power to help the public understand what is
>>> what so that no one feels that more rules are in order.
>>>
>>> Of course this is JMHO
>>> Julie
>>>
>>>
>>>
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