[nagdu] Blind Inc.

Sat Apr 3 23:20:38 UTC 2010

Wayne,

Do you know if it's possible to attend a program like yours by paying with
your own resources instead of having to rely on your state agency?  Some
agencies are awfully recalcitrant about stuff like that.

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Wayne Merritt
Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 5:03 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Inc.

The cost would be handled through your local VR agency, as with
attending an NFB or other training center. I don't know exactly how
much the cost is myself. As for the duration, all of the courses are
put together to fit within the 6-9 month program. There are some like
Braille, Technology and O&M that continue throughout most people's
time in training, but others like Daily Living Skills, Industrial
Arts, and Career Guidance take up a hsorter time of training. In the
end though, the student is busy from 8-5 during the training day,
going to classes and learning skills. Whenever one training area
completes, another is put in its place, which means the schedule is
shuffled to make room for the new class and try and accommodate the
other classes the person is in. Like I said though, all of this is
contained within the 6-9 month period of time that most people are at
the center. Some people stay longer, as in other training centers, and
some don't stay the full time. It all depends on what you know, what
you need, and your rate of learning and using the skills.

On the topic of people with other disabilities attending centers,
seems like there's been more of an increase of these kinds of people
both at where I work and across the board over the last 10 years in
other centers. Rarely do I come across students that are just blind,
since even if blindness is their main disability, many have hidden
disabilities such as diabetes, learning issues, or other medical or
psychological conditions that make working with them interesting.
Thus, I would bet that any center, be it an NFB center, state center,
or other, would be more than willing to work with someone and perhaps
even modify their program to fit the person's needs if they presented
a good enough case. For example, there are many students where I workt
that have diabetes, but they still go out on O&M, they just might not
stay out as long or might have more breaks than someone without
diabetes.

Wayne

On 4/2/10, Albert J Rizzi <albert at myblindspot.org> wrote:
> Thanks for that info Wayne. What does something like this cost to attend?
> And how long do these courses run?
>
> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
> CEO/Founder
> My Blind Spot, Inc.
> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
> New York, New York  10004
> www.myblindspot.org
> PH: 917-553-0347
> Fax: 212-858-5759
> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
> doing it."
>
>
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Wayne Merritt
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 5:35 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Inc.
>
> This seems like an appropriate time to throw in my 2 cents worth.
> Others have said what I would have said pretty well. I did attend the
> Colorado Center too back in 1999 from January to August. I used my
> guide dog at the time for about 5 months of that before I retired him
> for personal reasons which had nothing to do with Center ttraining.
> I've touched on this in other posts on this list, but the short
> version was that I was getting too stressed about the daily
> responsibilities of having a guide dog. Anyway, though the CCB policy
> for guide dogs has changed since I attended, now they're more in line
> wiht the other NFB centers, I didn't encounter any resistance
> regarding my dog while in training, other than trying to take my dog
> into a kitchen one day, but that makes sense.
>
> I've said this next item a few times in the time that I've been on
> this list and now seems like another appropriate time. I work at the
> Criss Cole Rehabilitation Center in Austin, Texas, which though it's
> the state adult training center for the blind, they do accept people
> from other parts of the U.S. Our Center has probably the most
> inclusive policy of all the centers I've heard of; basically, the
> student can use their dog for 4 of the 8 hours of training, and then
> the rest of the training day they have to leave their dogs in their
> rooms or I suppose they could leave them in someone's office. People
> with guides have come to the Center frequently over the time its been
> operating. I'm okay if anyone wants to contact me off list and I can
> pass your information along to our admissions person. We have had a
> student from out of state, about 2 years ago a woman from Florida came
> with her guide dog. Criss Cole offers many of the similar core
> training areas as other centers, such as Braille, technology,
> Industrial Arts, Career Guidance, Daily Living Skills (including
> cooking, planning and organization skills), O&M, Home and Personal
> Management, and others. We offer the traditional 6-9 month program,
> though there has been talk of letting people come specifically for a
> certain training area, such as career guidance. In fact, we do
> currently have a gentleman that's just here for career guidance.
> Anyway, if you're interested then contact me off list. I think that
> during O&M, you have to use the cane at least in the beginning, in
> order to build those ever crucial cane skills. Our center also has
> people with partial vision or light perception wear the sleepshade or
> blindfold during the training day, from 8-12 and 1-5, just like the
> NFB centers.
>
> Sincerely,
> Wayne Merritt
>
> On 4/2/10, Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC) <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com> wrote:
>> Exactly. NFB seems to have no idea that there are people with other
>> disabilities that also happen to be blind.
>> Also, NFB touts independence but only their flavor of independence.
>> Kind of like a parent saying to a kid "You can be whatever you want when
>> you grow up, and I'll even let you choose which type of doctor you want
>> to be". Promoting independence also means allowing people to make
>> choices that and individual may dislike.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>> Behalf Of Tracy Carcione
>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 11:55 AM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Inc.
>>
>> Marion, I think a person can live "fully and vibrantly" even if they
>> don't
>> have great cane skills.  I know a guy who often seems confused while
>> traveling, but he gets where he wants to go.  More than that, he goes
>> places I'll probably never go, like Iraq and Korea, as well as
>> travelling
>> all over the U.S.  Now he has retired his dog, and because of declining
>> health has not gotten another, but he still gets where he wants to go.
>> Isn't that what the oft-cited Nature of Independence speech was about?
>> Basically, stop judging each other on how we get where we want to go, so
>> long as we get there?
>> Cane skills are very handy, but people who don't have them can still get
>> where they want to go, and that's what counts.  I do get tired of this
>> veneration of the sacred long white cane.  It's just a long stick.
>> Using
>> it is not rocket science.
>>
>> I found what Rox said about her travel very interesting.
>> Tracy
>>
>>> Jewel,
>>>     If you are going to attend a center, I think it would be best if
>> you
>>> did
>>> so before getting your guide dog. Their very intensive O&M training
>> will
>>> make you a superior guide dog handler. If you choose to go after
>> getting
>>> your guide dog, I would suggest you do so well after you and your dog
>> have
>>> bonded. During the day, you will be using your white cane. You will be
>>> able
>>> to see your guide dog during breaks and for relief, as well as before
>> and
>>> after training.
>>>     Just for the record, there are those who will try to spin this
>> policy
>>> to
>>> be an "anti guide dog" policy; however, I am of the opinion, from
>> talking
>>> to
>>> and listening to what they believe and how each of the centers
>> approach
>>> this
>>> issue, that it is not anti guide dog, rather it is pro sound O&M
>> training.
>>> I
>>> am of the opinion that, like the general public, many blind people see
>> a
>>> guide dog as the answer to their O&M problems, rather than as an
>>> enhancement
>>> to them. Both the white cane and guide dog have their advantages and
>>> disadvantages. Without the flexibility to choose the one that works
>> best
>>> for
>>> a particular application, a blind person limits their independence and
>>> their
>>> ability to participate in all aspects of society and life! A carpenter
>>> learns how to use a hammer, but cannot build a house with just one
>> tool!
>>> In
>>> order for us to live fully, we must have several blindness tools in
>> our
>>> tool
>>> box. Of course, if one is comfortable with limiting their choices,
>> that is
>>> their prerogative. My choice is to live fully and vibrantly. Sometimes
>> my
>>> guide dog is not a part of this choice. JMHO!
>>>
>>> Fraternally yours,
>>> Marion Gwizdala
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Jewel S." <herekittykat2 at gmail.com>
>>> To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi, this makes me curious. I am considering going to Louisiana Center
>>>> for the Blind. Should I go before I get a guide dog? What are the
>>>> rules at LCB for guide dogs?
>>>>
>>>> ~Jewel
>>>>
>>>> On 3/31/10, Tracy Carcione <carcione at access.net> wrote:
>>>>> Hi Martha.
>>>>> There are people on this list who have been through the Colorado
>> Center
>>>>> with their dogs, or there used to be.  Jen was one of them, I
>> believe.
>>>>> She
>>>>>  said it was fine.  I don't know if the dog arrangements are
>> different
>>>>> at
>>>>> Blind Inc.  They have always appeared to me to be the most anti-dog
>> of
>>>>> the
>>>>> bunch, but that's my opinion.
>>>>> I wouldn't do it myself, but others have and it's been OK for their
>>>>> dogs.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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