[nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
Ann Edie
annedie at nycap.rr.com
Tue Apr 6 20:12:26 UTC 2010
Hi, Alan,
Thanks for the spelling assistance. Now I'll just have to teach JAWS to
pronounce "spelunking" as I hear it in my head--"spee lunking."
My cane comes up to about my chin, not quite as long as I would like, but
certainly longer than the ones that O&M instructors of my past prescribed.
When using my cane indoors, I am usually in schools or daycare
centers--places where there are many little and sometimes big kids, all of
whom think the cane is to be hopped over. This results in a lot of
casualties, since the kids usually land on top of the poor canes' necks. So
I spend a lot of time using my cane in the more upright or diagonal
positions, keeping it closer to my body and out from under small, but
deadly, little feet.
Since I am a part-time cane user and a full-time guide horse partner, I get
to contrast the two technologies on a daily basis. And I can say
unequivocally that for me the horse wins, hooves down! But the cane is
easier to get out of sight in a classroom and it is, therefore, easier for
me to get down to the job that I am there to do. And when the little kids
do decide to take my mobility tool for an unauthorized spin, the cane seems
to be less distressed and traumatized by the experience than my miniature
horse or my previous dog guides have been.
Actually, my folding cane does seem to have a spiteful streak--it has bitten
several little fingers which insisted on trying to get it to straighten out
and fly right, or to fold up neatly and go "under" a chair--but don't tell
my O&M training program, or they might try to take the dear cane away from
me!
Best,
Ann
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan" <awheeler at neb.rr.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
> It's actually spelunking, if that helps.
>
> Are you using a longer white cane, or a typical one that goes to about
> your sternum?
>
> A man who says he has never been scared is either lying or else he's never
> been any place or done anything.
> - Louis L'Amour |
>
> Alan Wheeler #8568 on Telespace
> Columbus, Nebraska
> awheeler at inebraska.com
> Msn: outlaw_cowboy at live.com
> wwww.twitter.com/cowboy_alan
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ann Edie" <annedie at nycap.rr.com>
> To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 12:02 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
>
>
>> But Albert, I failed to mention that I am a "Positive Reinforcement"
>> trainer--I wouldn't think of punishing the dear skinny, white, hairless
>> pogo stick!
>>
>> Maybe I'll have to shop for a Gentle Leader to fit its curious little
>> nose.
>>
>> I haven't been able to identify any treats that the slim darling likes
>> more than the depths of those sidewalk cracks though, so it's difficult
>> to reward it for the rare occasions when it controls itself enough to
>> pass up the opportunity to go spilunking. (How do you spell "spilunking"
>> anyway?)
>>
>> Anyway, I wish you luck with your presentation in DC. Are you there now,
>> or are you back in NYC already? I hope you got to enjoy DC in cherry
>> blossom season. I attended undergraduate school in DC, so am familiar
>> with the charms and pleasures of the nation's capital.
>>
>> Best,
>> Ann
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 12:52 AM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
>>
>>
>>> lol. if it continues to focus on the distractions you mentioned, then
>>> put it
>>> in a crate and remind the cane in a stern force, bad cane very bad cane.
>>>
>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>> CEO/Founder
>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>> New York, New York 10004
>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>> is
>>> doing it."
>>>
>>>
>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Ann Edie
>>> Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 10:50 PM
>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
>>>
>>> Hi, Albert,
>>>
>>> Please tell me how you trained your cane to ignore distractions. Mine
>>> is
>>> continuously poking its little nose into cracks in the sidewalk and
>>> insisting on stopping so abruptly to explore what's in there that i take
>>> a
>>> kick in the diaphragm from its butt end. I would truly appreciate
>>> learning
>>> the secret of training the dear hairless creature to guide me around
>>> those
>>> cracks and holes instead of persisting in thoroughly investigating each
>>> one
>>> to my frequent pain and frustration.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Ann
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 8:38 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
>>>
>>>
>>>> Thank you . it does help. understanding the need to demonstrate our
>>>> sense
>>>> of
>>>> orientation, positioning, our gate and stride, all that needs to be
>>>> assessed
>>>> and most probably assessed to determine our confidence and ability to
>>>> take
>>>> to independent travel. The cane is the only other tool we have which
>>>> affords
>>>> us independent travel outside of those of us who have usable vision and
>>>> can
>>>> manage without either of the two options discussed herein. So it does
>>>> make
>>>> sense, and it is not, in my opinion, about anything more then our
>>>> ability
>>>> to travel independently and confidently, additionally it could also be
>>>> about
>>>> how we would fair handling another living breathing tool as opposed to
>>>> the
>>>> lifeless cane which we control and which is not prone to distractions.
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who
>>>> is
>>>> doing it."
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>> Behalf
>>>> Of Michelle
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 6:00 AM
>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
>>>>
>>>> Hi Albert,
>>>>
>>>> I agree with you in part. What I'd like to say to you is that cane
>>>> skills
>>>> are necessary because it's better to get around with one than nothing
>>>> at
>>>> all
>>>>
>>>> before getting a dog. I understand guide dogs are obviously better as a
>>>> mobility aid, I have one myself! (big smile) I don't understand why
>>>> some
>>>> schools of thought hold to not having to use a cane as a kid or a
>>>> toddler.
>>>> Maybe it depends on the situation? I don't know. But I guess the
>>>> instructors
>>>>
>>>> want to know that you've got a good sense of direction so when you get
>>>> a
>>>> dog, you'll know that you can direct the dog appropriately most of the
>>>> time,
>>>>
>>>> and at least the instructors will feel safe about your travelling
>>>> adventures.
>>>>
>>>> I hope this helps,
>>>>
>>>> Michelle
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
>>>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>>>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, April 03, 2010 5:32 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Why is it a requirement for being considered getting a guide dog
>>>>> anyway?
>>>>> I
>>>>> would like to understand the rationale. I am not agreeing or
>>>>> disagreeing
>>>>> just wondering about the reasons. Then too, if cane mobility is so
>>>>> integral
>>>>> to independence, why are there some schools of thought on not
>>>>> introducing
>>>>> the cane to toddlers or blind youth as soon as they can hold one?
>>>>>
>>>>> Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
>>>>> CEO/Founder
>>>>> My Blind Spot, Inc.
>>>>> 90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
>>>>> New York, New York 10004
>>>>> www.myblindspot.org
>>>>> PH: 917-553-0347
>>>>> Fax: 212-858-5759
>>>>> "The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one
>>>>> who
>>>>> is
>>>>> doing it."
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Visit us on Facebook LinkedIn
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>>>> Behalf
>>>>> Of Tracy Carcione
>>>>> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 2:33 PM
>>>>> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>>>>> Subject: [nagdu] cane skills as prerequisite for guide dog
>>>>>
>>>>> Marion, I don't necessarily agree that good cane skills should be a
>>>>> prerequisite for getting a guide dog. It's a nice theory. It would
>>>>> certainly be helpful. But I know too many people who don't have
>>>>> spectacular cane skills, but do great with a dog. Some of them are
>>>>> older
>>>>> people, who started getting dogs when cane training was not very
>>>>> available. Some of them are from places where services for blind
>>>>> people
>>>>> are not very good. Some of them went blind as senior citizens, and
>>>>> quite
>>>>> a few agencies don't serve that population very well, since they won't
>>>>> be
>>>>> employed. Should we tell these people they have to wait until they
>>>>> can
>>>>> somehow get cane training? I don't think so. I've met enough people
>>>>> for
>>>>> whom the dog was the thing that got them back out, living their lives,
>>>>> and
>>>>> I think getting out and living one's life is a great thing. I'm not
>>>>> willing to stand in someone's way over whether or not their cane
>>>>> skills
>>>>> measure up to some philosophical mark.
>>>>>
>>>>> Should we take good orientation as good enough? Or should the guide
>>>>> dog
>>>>> schools offer cane training to prospective applicants who they feel
>>>>> should
>>>>> have it? They seem like reasonable approaches to me, and I believe
>>>>> they
>>>>> are
>>>>> the ones being carried out. Encouraging good cane skills is fine, but
>>>>> I
>>>>> wouldn't make it a prerequisite for a guide dog.
>>>>> Tracy
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>> om
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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