[nagdu] cane skills vs. mobility skills

Thu Apr 8 21:53:47 UTC 2010

Micheal,

I really like your view of mobility training and the difference between the
tools and achieving the ends that the tools are for.  This seems like such
an obvious concept, but it is beyond too many in the field of instruction
and service provision.  Bummer!

So can we have you declared the official Font of All Knowledge on the
subject?  I'm tired of trying to ask a simple question about orientation
strategy for my trip to the mall and being told that what I really need is
two years of instructions at 4 hours a week with at least double that of
practice before I should even think of going to the mall like I've been
doing anyway but would just like a clue as to how to deal with, say, one
tricky passage.

So, you are now the one to make decisions for everyone when it comes to
determining what sort of instruction a person needs in order to do what they
do anyway.  Deal?

/grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:03 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: [nagdu] cane skills vs. mobility skills

All,

First I do not think Marion was intending to be judgmental.  However, we do
need to make a distinction between cane skills on the one hand and good
orientation and mobility skills on the other.  Often the two do go hand in
hand, but not always.

There are those who simply cannot use a cane well but who are perfectly able
to comprehend their environment and to get around in it well.  That is, they
are oriented to their surroundings and they know how to travel and they do
have the confidence to do so.  They have learned this from other mechanisms
than walking with a cane.  This is not necessarily typical, but it does
happen.

The cane is the most basic tool we have for teaching good travel skills.
Learning to travel with a cane is like learning to do simple math.  You need
to learn the techniques before advancing onto other processes.  Using a cane
teaches us about our surroundings.  We locate obstacles and other things in
our surroundings we would never find with our guide dogs.  The fact is that
those who learn about such things DO understand their environment and they
travel better because they have learned to observe their surroundings.

I will not say that good travel techniques cannot be learned while studying
to use a guide dog.  However, based on the experiences of excellent travel
instructors and even guide dog school trainers such does not work for most
people.

I have said and continue to say I can teach a person good cane techniques in
five minutes, but it takes many months to teach good travel skills and
techniques.  It takes months to learn and develop good O&M skills.

Marion is correct in that there are many guide dog users who received their
guides without the benefit of having learned good travel skills.  The dog
often helps them compensate to a degree.  However, these individuals would
be more accomplished and more confident travelers if they had learned better
travel skills before receiving their guide dogs.  Further, they probably
would have been able to learn these skills better with the aid of a good
travel instructor such as the ones we find at the three NFB centers and at a
few other centers throughout the U.S.

Please note that I changed the subject line as this discussion has gone far
afield from Blind Inc.

Mike Hingson

The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
     “Speaking with Vision”
                 Michael Hingson, President
                         (415) 827-4084
                   info at michaelhingson.com
                   www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:56 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Inc.

Rebecca,
    I'm not sure what in my comments was judgmental. I merely stated my 
opinion of the NFB and Iowa's centers' policy concerning guide dogs during 
training, making no judgment of anyone.

Marion Gwizdala

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 11:38 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Inc.

> But Marian why do you get to judge?
> How would you judge Rox who presumably couldn't use a cane safely and
> effectively? How would youjudge Shannon and why does your opinion hold
> more weight then theirs?
> Using a cane and dog are very different. The dog is more about
> management and communicating with another living being, the cane doesn't
> have those two features.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Friday, April 02, 2010 7:50 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Blind Inc.
>
> Tracy and All,
>    At last year's convention,each of the Executive Directors of the NFB
>
> centers,including Shaun Mayo, and Curtis Chong, representing the Iowa
> Commission for the Blind, discussed their approach to guide dogs during
> training. Each of the centers seemed to be in concert about this, so I
> don't
> think you would find much of a difference from one center to the other!
> None
> of them - including BLIND, inc. - seemed to be "anti guide dog". They
> all
> allow their students to use their dogs while at their centers, just not
> during training hours, as their philosophy is that the white cane is the
>
> foundation of sound O&M skills. in my opinion, this is a good approach,
> as I
> find all too many guide dog users have poor O&M skills. I, too, believe
> that
> the ability to travel safely and independently with a long white cane
> should
> be a prerequisite for obtaining a guide dog!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Tracy Carcione" <carcione at access.net>
> To: <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, March 31, 2010 10:06 AM
> Subject: [nagdu] Blind Inc.
>
>
>> Hi Martha.
>> There are people on this list who have been through the Colorado
> Center
>> with their dogs, or there used to be.  Jen was one of them, I believe.
> She
>> said it was fine.  I don't know if the dog arrangements are different
> at
>> Blind Inc.  They have always appeared to me to be the most anti-dog of
> the
>> bunch, but that's my opinion.
>> I wouldn't do it myself, but others have and it's been OK for their
> dogs.
>> Tracy
>>
>>
>>
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