[nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog

Wed Apr 14 14:20:48 UTC 2010

Hi Albert,
The bulkhead seats are the worst ones now.  They have about the same amount 
of leg room as in a regular row.  What makes these seats worse is that there 
is no space under the wall in front of you to put your dog's butt under. 
Your dog has to squeeze into the exact same space that your legs will need. 
So I NEVER ask for the bulkhead seats!

Years ago, it was true that the bulkhead was very spacious. I could stretch 
my legs out perpendicular to the floor and barely touch the wall with my 
feet. I'm 5'5". there was plenty of room for both my feet and the dog and we 
would be comfortable.

Lyn and Landon
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Albert J Rizzi" <albert at myblindspot.org>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:57 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog

I am sorry to say that I was not aware of this position that the bulk head
is the worst place for a guide. may I get the reasons why, because as a new
be I have been led to believe this to be true when I fly. I had in the past
coveted such seating due to leg room. But if it is unsafe for my guide I
would so like to know why so that I might make proper accommodations for his
safe travel. Thanks.

Albert J. Rizzi, M.Ed.
CEO/Founder
My Blind Spot, Inc.
90 Broad Street - 18th Fl.
New York, New York  10004
www.myblindspot.org
PH: 917-553-0347
Fax: 212-858-5759
"The person who says it cannot be done, shouldn't interrupt the one who is
doing it."

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-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Michael Hingson
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 11:17 PM
To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
Subject: Re: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog

Hi all,

I am with Marion on this one.  I find that airline personnel tend to make up
rules often as they go along.  They do so whether or not I tell them I use a
guide dog, but it tends to be worse if they know in advance.

It is unfortunate that the schools believe they need to even say that the
airlines should be notified.  The schools are promulgating something better
off handled in a different way.

I find that when confronted by an airline person who says I must sit in the
bulkhead I simply ask "show me the law".  The airlines keep copies of their
manuals, policies and related materials on all aircraft.  If they cannot
show me the law usually that is the end of it.  I have had more
confrontational situations as some on this list know.  An airline was taken
to court by me and the NFB in the 1980s.  We settled that case, but I fear
that airlines did not learn from their mistakes.

International flights may be a different situation depending on the laws of
the countries to which we are traveling.  If we need to inform an airline
for the purpose of international travel it is not for the benefit of the
airline but rather because the country involved requires notification from
the airline prior to the trip as well as on approach.

Many guide dog schools either explicitly or implicitly encourage bulkhead
seating for guide dog users under the premise that there is more room for
the dog.  This is also unfortunate especially since the bulkhead is the most
dangerous place for a dog.

Mike Hingson

The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
"Speaking with Vision"
Michael Hingson, President
(415) 827-4084
info at michaelhingson.com
www.michaelhingson.com

for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Marion Gwizdala
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:06 PM
To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog

Jenine,
    Perhaps the "better way" to handle this is to not notify the airlines we

will be traveling with a guide dog or other service animal and require them
to follow the law that prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability!
I once traveled from Tampa to St.Louis, MO to do an educational program on
the ADA to attorneys and police officers on behalf of the Illinois Attorney
General's Office and had a flight attendant "advise" me that I was required
to sit in a bulkhead seat. When I "advised" her that I would not sit there,
she told me it was the law. I again "advised" her as to where I was going,
what I would be doing there, and that I had a much better understanding of
the Air Carrier Access Act than she. I further "advised" her that, if she
insisted on violating my civil rights by forcing me to accept an
accommodation I chose to refuse, I would file a Federal law suit against the

airlines and her. After consulting with the pilot, she "advised" me that
they were going to make an exception for me! I wonder how many others she
intimidated into submission, violating their civil rights! It's too bad we
are "advised" to compromise our civil rights because of the ignorance and
custodialism of the airline industry!

Fraternally yours,
Marion Gwizdala

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog

> Cheryl,
>
> The advice given on the call was general. It was also meant to answer the
> issue of international travel.
>
> Technically, on flights within the continental US, if you do not plan to
> ask
> for any accommodations, such as the bulkhead seat, for your service
> animal,
> then it's your choice as to whether to notify the airline that you will be
> traveling with your dog.
>
> There are probably as many opinions about this as there are handlers. If
> you
> just don't want the potential conflict or if you want to handle things at
> the start of your travel planning instead of at the jetway doors, then you
> might choose to notify the airline that you have a service animal.
>
> There is one instance in which you are required to notify the airline.
> That's if you have what is classified as a psychiatric service animal
> whose
> role is to assist you with tasks related to a mental health condition.
> Taking this type of dog, who often has fewer tasks in its training than a
> standard guide or service dog, does require prior notice and documentation
> provided to the airline. This category does not affect most of us with
> guide
> dogs though.
>
> Remember that generally when we give advice to people about what we as the
> school think is correct, we do so based on the majority of people's
> comfort
> levels. So though no, you technically are not required to notify airlines
> about your dog on domestic flights within the continental US, it certainly
> can lower stress levels for many people to do so.
>
> I fly a lot and always notify airlines that I am traveling with my dog. I
> do
> it for a rather sideways reason though. I want to make sure the flight
> crew
> knows that no, there is no federal law that requires me to sit in the
> bulkhead seats if I choose not to do so.
>
> Hope that clears things up.
>
>
> Jenine Stanley
> jeninems at wowway.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of cheryl echevarria
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:26 PM
> To: nagdu
> Subject: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog
>
> On GDF conference call they are saying that we need to let airlines know
> we
> have guide dogs with us.
>
> Why, that is not so.
>
> Cheryl Echevarria
> Independent Travel Consultant
> C10-10646
>
> http://Echevarriatravel.com
> 1-866-580-5574
>
> http://blog.echevarriatravel.com
> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
> CST-1018299-10
>
>
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