[nagdu] bulkhead

Wayne Merritt wcmerritt at gmail.com
Wed Apr 14 17:59:52 UTC 2010 

Between my long legs and my dog's long legs, we hardly have any room.
Sure, the flight attendants argue that the dog can stretch out in
front of the seat, but then if there's a wall there, like there
usually is, then where do I put my feet? At least with a non bulkhead
row, the dog can slide under the seat in front.

Wayne

On 4/14/10, Michael Hingson <mhingson at sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Good question.  The reason airlines do not permit purses, bags and other
> objects to be on the floor of bulkhead rows especially during takeoffs and
> landings is that turbulents and other violent moves may cause these to
> bounce around or become airborne thus making them a danger to passengers.
> There is nothing to restrain a guide dog sufficiently in the bulkhead row
> such that the same could not happen to the dog.  Also, if the dog panicked
> there would be an additional problem which would be harder for the user to
> address than if the dog were under the seat in front of the user in a
> non-bulkhead row.
>
> I recall vividly the day in court when during my litigation of an airline
> the pilot tried to use the argument of a panicky dog running up and down the
> aircraft aisle to attempt to convince the jury of why the front row was the
> best place for the guide.  It only took the question of initial restraint of
> the dog in a non-bulkhead row to put that issue to rest.
>
> Guide dogs are better protected and more controllable in a non-bulkhead row.
> Also, with the closer packing of seats on many aircraft the bulkhead no
> longer gives more room.  In fact often there is less room in a bulkhead row.
>
>
> Mike Hingson
>
>
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>      “Speaking with Vision”
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>                    info at michaelhingson.com
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>
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marsha Drenth
> Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 5:20 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: [nagdu] bulkhead
>
> I am curious, why is bulkhead the most dangerous place for our guides?
>
> Marsha
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Michael Hingson
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 11:17 PM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog
>
> Hi all,
>
> I am with Marion on this one.  I find that airline personnel tend to make up
> rules often as they go along.  They do so whether or not I tell them I use a
> guide dog, but it tends to be worse if they know in advance.
>
> It is unfortunate that the schools believe they need to even say that the
> airlines should be notified.  The schools are promulgating something better
> off handled in a different way.
>
> I find that when confronted by an airline person who says I must sit in the
> bulkhead I simply ask "show me the law".  The airlines keep copies of their
> manuals, policies and related materials on all aircraft.  If they cannot
> show me the law usually that is the end of it.  I have had more
> confrontational situations as some on this list know.  An airline was taken
> to court by me and the NFB in the 1980s.  We settled that case, but I fear
> that airlines did not learn from their mistakes.
>
> International flights may be a different situation depending on the laws of
> the countries to which we are traveling.  If we need to inform an airline
> for the purpose of international travel it is not for the benefit of the
> airline but rather because the country involved requires notification from
> the airline prior to the trip as well as on approach.
>
> Many guide dog schools either explicitly or implicitly encourage bulkhead
> seating for guide dog users under the premise that there is more room for
> the dog.  This is also unfortunate especially since the bulkhead is the most
> dangerous place for a dog.
>
>
> Mike Hingson
>
>
> The Michael Hingson Group, INC.
>      “Speaking with Vision”
>                  Michael Hingson, President
>                          (415) 827-4084
>                    info at michaelhingson.com
>                    www.michaelhingson.com
>
>
> for info on the new KNFB Reader Mobile, visit:
> http://knfbreader.michaelhingson.com
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Marion Gwizdala
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:06 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog
>
> Jenine,
>     Perhaps the "better way" to handle this is to not notify the airlines we
>
> will be traveling with a guide dog or other service animal and require them
> to follow the law that prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability!
> I once traveled from Tampa to St.Louis, MO to do an educational program on
> the ADA to attorneys and police officers on behalf of the Illinois Attorney
> General's Office and had a flight attendant "advise" me that I was required
> to sit in a bulkhead seat. When I "advised" her that I would not sit there,
> she told me it was the law. I again "advised" her as to where I was going,
> what I would be doing there, and that I had a much better understanding of
> the Air Carrier Access Act than she. I further "advised" her that, if she
> insisted on violating my civil rights by forcing me to accept an
> accommodation I chose to refuse, I would file a Federal law suit against the
>
> airlines and her. After consulting with the pilot, she "advised" me that
> they were going to make an exception for me! I wonder how many others she
> intimidated into submission, violating their civil rights! It's too bad we
> are "advised" to compromise our civil rights because of the ignorance and
> custodialism of the airline industry!
>
> Fraternally yours,
> Marion Gwizdala
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jenine Stanley" <jeninems at wowway.com>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 9:25 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog
>
>
>> Cheryl,
>>
>> The advice given on the call was general. It was also meant to answer the
>> issue of international travel.
>>
>> Technically, on flights within the continental US, if you do not plan to
>> ask
>> for any accommodations, such as the bulkhead seat, for your service
>> animal,
>> then it's your choice as to whether to notify the airline that you will be
>> traveling with your dog.
>>
>> There are probably as many opinions about this as there are handlers. If
>> you
>> just don't want the potential conflict or if you want to handle things at
>> the start of your travel planning instead of at the jetway doors, then you
>> might choose to notify the airline that you have a service animal.
>>
>> There is one instance in which you are required to notify the airline.
>> That's if you have what is classified as a psychiatric service animal
>> whose
>> role is to assist you with tasks related to a mental health condition.
>> Taking this type of dog, who often has fewer tasks in its training than a
>> standard guide or service dog, does require prior notice and documentation
>> provided to the airline. This category does not affect most of us with
>> guide
>> dogs though.
>>
>> Remember that generally when we give advice to people about what we as the
>> school think is correct, we do so based on the majority of people's
>> comfort
>> levels. So though no, you technically are not required to notify airlines
>> about your dog on domestic flights within the continental US, it certainly
>> can lower stress levels for many people to do so.
>>
>> I fly a lot and always notify airlines that I am traveling with my dog. I
>> do
>> it for a rather sideways reason though. I want to make sure the flight
>> crew
>> knows that no, there is no federal law that requires me to sit in the
>> bulkhead seats if I choose not to do so.
>>
>> Hope that clears things up.
>>
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
>> Of cheryl echevarria
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 13, 2010 7:26 PM
>> To: nagdu
>> Subject: [nagdu] why do we have to let airlines know that you have a dog
>>
>> On GDF conference call they are saying that we need to let airlines know
>> we
>> have guide dogs with us.
>>
>> Why, that is not so.
>>
>> Cheryl Echevarria
>> Independent Travel Consultant
>> C10-10646
>>
>> http://Echevarriatravel.com
>> 1-866-580-5574
>>
>> http://blog.echevarriatravel.com
>> Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
>> Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel
>> CST-1018299-10
>>
>>
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