[nagdu] was Matching, now Owner Training

Julie J julielj at windstream.net
Tue Apr 27 16:23:45 UTC 2010


I think knowing when it's time to throw in the towel when you owner train is 
much the same as when you have a program dog.  There are lots of 
indications: when the dog doesn't want to guide, when physical problems make 
it a bad idea, when you no longer feel safe, when working the dog is more of 
a pain than the benefit you get and others.  The only thing that is really 
different is that you don't have an instructor from the school to offer 
their opinion.  Having supportive people, even if they don't fully 
understand guide dogs, helps me a lot.  If I have someone to go to talk out 
my frustrations I can generally get a good idea of the seriousness of the 
problem.  For me the other person is really only listening, asking questions 
and getting me to think about the situation a bit more emotionally 
unattached.  Also journal writing helps me to achieve this same perspective. 
If I go back and read journal entries that are full of frustrations, 
complaining and general unpleasantness it is a signal that it is time to 
rethink things.

I just got the comment about still training the dog this weekend.  Monty 
made a mistake and I stopped to show him the problem, then backed up to 
rework it.  This woman started going on about how she must have startled him 
and was he in training and I don't know what all.   Honestly I was pleased 
as punch that he only made one clearance type error all weekend.  It was a 
totally new environment, lots of people with canes, a couple of other dogs, 
long hours of working in harness, completely different schedule and he has 
only been fully trained for 6 months.  I think one error is excellent.

Julie


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Pickrell, Rebecca M (TASC)" <REBECCA.PICKRELL at tasc.com>
To: "NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2010 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] was Matching, now Owner Training


> Tami and other owner-trainers,
> How do you know when it is time to give up or keep going? I've always
> wondered about that.
> As for the experts knowing all there is to know about the dogs, I'm not
> sure how true that is. When I got my dogs, I do remember asking
> questions about house manners and guiding situations and was honestly
> told "I've never seen her in that situation, I don't know".
> I appreciated and still appreciate the honesty. Still, it is hard to not
> know. Also, people assume that the dog "is fully trained" meaning that
> the dog will never do "anything wrong" which is also hard to deal with.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf Of Tamara Smith-Kinney
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 11:35 AM
> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] was Matching, now Owner Training
>
> I didn't take it that way.  No worries!
>
> There is something to be said for letting the experts do all the
> groundwork.
> By the time they do match you with your dog, they know the dog inside
> and
> out.  Also, the dog has passed through the majority of the challenges
> and
> tests that might wash another dog out.  That, to me, was the hardest
> part
> when I really started the guide part of Mitzi's training.  How will I
> know
> when it's time to give it up instead of finding a better training
> solution
> for whatever thingy we were working on?  What was a temperament or
> character
> issue, and what was lack of maturity?  That sort of thing.  Teams of
> experts
> taking of all that seemed like a good idea.  /smile/  Not that I
> wouldn't
> owner-train again!
>
> At the same time, having teams of experts do all the raising and
> training
> and then just matching me up with the dog they believe will best suit my
> needs just sort of gives me the willies deep down inside.  If I do
> decide to
> go through a program next time, I will gladly work with them so that
> they
> can give me the best match possible using their experience and knowledge
> and
> tried and true methods!  But my inner 5-year-old wants to pick her puppy
> her
> ownself.  /grin/
>
> Tami Smith-Kinney
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> Behalf
> Of Jewel S.
> Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 6:37 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] was Matching, now Owner Training
>
> I understand that owner-trainers don't pick a dog at random. From
> reading about a few people on here who owner-trained, it is much more
> complicated than getting a dog from a guide school. But what I was
> trying to say was that if I wanted to do the work of choosing my own
> dog, wouldn't I just owner-train? By going to a guide school, I am
> allowing them to pick the appropriate dog for me, instead of doing all
> the hard work myself. For some people, this is the best way to go. For
> others, picking their own dog is important, for one reason or another,
> like having very particular needs or having very few requirements
> other than wanting a rescued pup. I wasn't trying to say that
> owner-trained dogs are picked at random. I apologize if it sounded
> like that. I was just trying to say that I don't want to have to deal
> with all that hard work of finding the perfect dog myself; I don't
> think I'd be very good at assessing a dog's potential. So, I turn to a
> guide dog school, where they have trained people who do the
> assessment, and take that responsibility off of me.
>
> ~Jewel
>
> On 4/23/10, The Pawpower Pack <pawpower4me at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Jewel,
>> Owner trainers don't just pick dogs at random.  the process is a great
>> deal more involved and time consuming.  An owner trainer may look at a
>> hundred dogs from breeders, shelters, and rescue organizations without
>> finding a suitable dog.  If the owner trainer is lucky, they will have
>> someone who knows their needs and who knows dogs assist them in
>> temperament testing the dog.  Before said testing begins, time is
>> spent making lists of possible breed choices, learning as much as
>> possible about health problems and temperament issues of said breed/s.
>> We don't just randomly pick dogs because they come up to us and "pick
>> us" or because we like them or think they're cute or because we have
>> an instant bond.
>>
>> The guide dog programs spend a great deal of time on matching and
>> owner trainers spend probably just as much time, if not more, on the
>> same.  We need to do it differently, but in order to minimize the
>> potential of washing a dog out, most of us will spend more time during
>> the matching process.
>> Finally, I have yet to meet a "self-trained dog."  By definition, a
>> "Self-Trained Dog" would be one which had already trained itself.  I
>> assure you that none of my owner trained dogs have been able to do
> that.
>> Goddess knows I'd love a self-trained dog.  On those rainy Sunday
>> mornings it could take itself outside and work on traffic training or
>> curb to curb turns while I lay in bed and drink coffee and eat
> Beignets.
>> People who train their own assistance dogs are typically called owner
>> trainers and our dogs are owner trained-- being that they are being,
>> or were trained, by the owner.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Rox and the Kitchen Bitches
>> Bristol (retired), Mill'E SD. and Laveau Guide Dog, CGC.
>> "It's wildly irritating to have invented something as revolutionary as
>> sarcasm, only to have it abused by amateurs." -- Christopher Moore
>> pawpower4me at gmail.com
>>
>> Windows Live Only: Brisomania at hotmail.com
>> AIM: Brissysgirl Yahoo: lillebriss
>>
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