[nagdu] Critical blind people

Sun Aug 1 14:42:15 UTC 2010

her name is pronounced: ben yay. I'll explain how she finds stalls/sinks 
when I have a minute. Am running out the door. <smile>
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people

> Hi Hope-
>
> Just read your post.  Please tell me how you pronounce your dog's name- 
> I'm
> intrigued.  Also, wondering if you could give me some pointers on how you
> trained your guide to find the largest stall and sinks. I've not found a
> good enough way yet. It's a gamble to see if she'll find the stall each
> time, and finding the sink is rare.
> Either way, thanks for listening.
>
> Cathryn (& Abby)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Hope Paulos
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:14 PM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>
> I agree, Jenine. I was at several conventions, and when I told my dog to
> "find the elevator" (no matter where I was in the particular hotel) she'd
> immediately take me there. I didn't have to say "left" "right", etc. She
> automatically took me there. And this could be from  *anywhere* in the
> hotel... I also trained her to find the largest stall in the restroom, the
> sink (restroom) and paper towels (just below the dispenser). Now it's a
> matter of teaching her to find/follow lines and not cut in front of 
> people.
> <grin>
> Hope and Beignet
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Susan Jones" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>
>
>>I find the "find" command invaluable, and use it often, especially for
>>trash
>> cans, elevator buttons, stairs, doors, etc.
>> Susan & Rhoda
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
>> Behalf
>> Of Jenine Stanley
>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:18 PM
>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>>
>> Wow, I'm amazed at how many of you have encountered the sentiment that
>> having your dog find common things, like entrances, elevators, etc., is
>> too
>> hard.
>>
>> This is not a GDf brag by any means but this concept of using the dog's
>> vision and training to help you find things being too much is so foreign
>> to
>> how I have been taught for the past 20 years that it boggles my mind.
>>
>> My first group of instructors at GDf told us that we could teach our dogs
>> to
>> find just about anything if we used the method we were taught and started
>> slowly. We were encouraged throughout class to have the dog find things
>> and
>> finding entrances and exits was part of every day work. Finding stairs,
>> elevators, escalators, etc., was as well. During class we have the dogs
>> find
>> our rooms, not because GDF thinks we can't  but because it does help to
>> instill that find command. I use this constantly in hotels where I want
>> the
>> dog to return to my room.
>>
>> We, and when I say we, I mean students, teach the dogs to find "my seat"
>> which is either an assigned seat in the dining room during class, or any
>> seat I might vacate and leave things at, such as in a meeting. I don't
>> even
>> have to leave my things there necessarily.
>>
>> The hard part about this type of work is allowing the dog to do it, make
>> mistakes and get it right. You do have to offer the dog a little support
>> at
>> times and not over correct if he or she gets it wrong, but wow, it's a 
>> way
>> of working with a dog that maximizes both of your abilities and if you
>> have
>> the least problem with hearing or orientation, this skill can be
>> invaluable.
>>
>>
>> I've heard one instructor say that the find command doesn't work because
>> people too often misuse it, asking their dogs to find things that aren't
>> there or facing one direction and asking the dog to find the door out of 
>> a
>> room without knowing where it is.
>>
>> My answer to this is that either the people he has seen don't understand
>> how
>> the command works or aren't reading their dogs well, or the dogs have
>> never
>> been taught the command and what is expected of them. Dogs and people who
>> have been taught the find command and know how to teach it in a variety 
>> of
>> settings, usually get it. I can be facing the back wall of a room and ask
>> my
>> dog to "find outside." He may turn a couple times or do a circuit of the
>> room until he recognizes the door out but he will find it. This is
>> especially helpful in large open spaces like exhibit halls.
>>
>> Now, this year in Dallas, Swap found getting out of the exhibit hall very
>> challenging some days. So did my wallet but that's another story. <grin>
>> There were often crowds, but not necessarily huge crowds, around the
>> entrance so when I asked him to find outside, meaning the way out, he
>> would
>> do a circuit of the room and end up at a booth we liked, always a
>> different
>> one, but usually not necessarily close to the exit.
>>
>> Well, DUH, Jenine, why not try some positive reinforcement when he does
>> get
>> it? A little food reward paired with the GDF praise "Good outside!" 
>> worked
>> wonders. E
>>
>> I can't even imagine why other blind people or other handlers would
>> criticize using these commands, unless it's for the reasons espoused by
>> the
>> instructor. If my dog just isn't finding something, chances are it really
>> isn't there or he's confused somehow. That's when I can step in and ask
>> others for help, just pointing me in the right direction usually works 
>> but
>> sometimes the dog figures out that the human knows best and will default
>> to
>> that.
>>
>> The key to really getting the most out of the find command though once
>> it's
>> been cemented, is to use it. Expect the dog to find things and reward
>> appropriately. You also need at times to use other humans to help when
>> learning new things to find, like doors, elevators and such in new 
>> places.
>> No big deal though. Some dogs are better at words and finding things than
>> others too. I've had the spectrum and even the ones who weren't truly 
>> word
>> oriented were concept and context oriented and caught on quickly.
>>
>> Jenine Stanley
>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>
>>
>>
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