[nagdu] Critical blind people

Mon Aug 2 11:47:14 UTC 2010

oops thought we were talking about food so sorry.

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Cheryl Echevarria
Independent Travel Consultant
C10-10646

http://Echevarriatravel.com
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skype: angeldn3

Reservations at echevarriatravel.com
Affiliated as an Independent Contractor with Montrose Travel CST-1018299-10

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'" 
<nagdu at nfbnet.org>
Sent: Monday, August 02, 2010 7:39 AM
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people

> Hope-
>
> I missed this response and asked the question again- oops!
> Thanks for responding- Benyay it is, and blessings on your day!
> Cathryn (& Abby)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
> Of Hope Paulos
> Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 10:42 AM
> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>
> her name is pronounced: ben yay. I'll explain how she finds stalls/sinks
> when I have a minute. Am running out the door. <smile>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>
>
> > Hi Hope-
> >
> > Just read your post.  Please tell me how you pronounce your dog's name-
> > I'm
> > intrigued.  Also, wondering if you could give me some pointers on how 
> > you
> > trained your guide to find the largest stall and sinks. I've not found a
> > good enough way yet. It's a gamble to see if she'll find the stall each
> > time, and finding the sink is rare.
> > Either way, thanks for listening.
> >
> > Cathryn (& Abby)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On 
> > Behalf
> > Of Hope Paulos
> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:14 PM
> > To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
> >
> > I agree, Jenine. I was at several conventions, and when I told my dog to
> > "find the elevator" (no matter where I was in the particular hotel) 
> > she'd
> > immediately take me there. I didn't have to say "left" "right", etc. She
> > automatically took me there. And this could be from  *anywhere* in the
> > hotel... I also trained her to find the largest stall in the restroom, 
> > the
> > sink (restroom) and paper towels (just below the dispenser). Now it's a
> > matter of teaching her to find/follow lines and not cut in front of
> > people.
> > <grin>
> > Hope and Beignet
> > ----- Original Message ----- 
> > From: "Susan Jones" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
> > To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> > <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:59 PM
> > Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
> >
> >
> >>I find the "find" command invaluable, and use it often, especially for
> >>trash
> >> cans, elevator buttons, stairs, doors, etc.
> >> Susan & Rhoda
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
> >> Behalf
> >> Of Jenine Stanley
> >> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:18 PM
> >> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
> >> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
> >>
> >> Wow, I'm amazed at how many of you have encountered the sentiment that
> >> having your dog find common things, like entrances, elevators, etc., is
> >> too
> >> hard.
> >>
> >> This is not a GDf brag by any means but this concept of using the dog's
> >> vision and training to help you find things being too much is so 
> >> foreign
> >> to
> >> how I have been taught for the past 20 years that it boggles my mind.
> >>
> >> My first group of instructors at GDf told us that we could teach our 
> >> dogs
> >> to
> >> find just about anything if we used the method we were taught and 
> >> started
> >> slowly. We were encouraged throughout class to have the dog find things
> >> and
> >> finding entrances and exits was part of every day work. Finding stairs,
> >> elevators, escalators, etc., was as well. During class we have the dogs
> >> find
> >> our rooms, not because GDF thinks we can't  but because it does help to
> >> instill that find command. I use this constantly in hotels where I want
> >> the
> >> dog to return to my room.
> >>
> >> We, and when I say we, I mean students, teach the dogs to find "my 
> >> seat"
> >> which is either an assigned seat in the dining room during class, or 
> >> any
> >> seat I might vacate and leave things at, such as in a meeting. I don't
> >> even
> >> have to leave my things there necessarily.
> >>
> >> The hard part about this type of work is allowing the dog to do it, 
> >> make
> >> mistakes and get it right. You do have to offer the dog a little 
> >> support
> >> at
> >> times and not over correct if he or she gets it wrong, but wow, it's a
> >> way
> >> of working with a dog that maximizes both of your abilities and if you
> >> have
> >> the least problem with hearing or orientation, this skill can be
> >> invaluable.
> >>
> >>
> >> I've heard one instructor say that the find command doesn't work 
> >> because
> >> people too often misuse it, asking their dogs to find things that 
> >> aren't
> >> there or facing one direction and asking the dog to find the door out 
> >> of
> >> a
> >> room without knowing where it is.
> >>
> >> My answer to this is that either the people he has seen don't 
> >> understand
> >> how
> >> the command works or aren't reading their dogs well, or the dogs have
> >> never
> >> been taught the command and what is expected of them. Dogs and people 
> >> who
> >> have been taught the find command and know how to teach it in a variety
> >> of
> >> settings, usually get it. I can be facing the back wall of a room and 
> >> ask
> >> my
> >> dog to "find outside." He may turn a couple times or do a circuit of 
> >> the
> >> room until he recognizes the door out but he will find it. This is
> >> especially helpful in large open spaces like exhibit halls.
> >>
> >> Now, this year in Dallas, Swap found getting out of the exhibit hall 
> >> very
> >> challenging some days. So did my wallet but that's another story. 
> >> <grin>
> >> There were often crowds, but not necessarily huge crowds, around the
> >> entrance so when I asked him to find outside, meaning the way out, he
> >> would
> >> do a circuit of the room and end up at a booth we liked, always a
> >> different
> >> one, but usually not necessarily close to the exit.
> >>
> >> Well, DUH, Jenine, why not try some positive reinforcement when he does
> >> get
> >> it? A little food reward paired with the GDF praise "Good outside!"
> >> worked
> >> wonders. E
> >>
> >> I can't even imagine why other blind people or other handlers would
> >> criticize using these commands, unless it's for the reasons espoused by
> >> the
> >> instructor. If my dog just isn't finding something, chances are it 
> >> really
> >> isn't there or he's confused somehow. That's when I can step in and ask
> >> others for help, just pointing me in the right direction usually works
> >> but
> >> sometimes the dog figures out that the human knows best and will 
> >> default
> >> to
> >> that.
> >>
> >> The key to really getting the most out of the find command though once
> >> it's
> >> been cemented, is to use it. Expect the dog to find things and reward
> >> appropriately. You also need at times to use other humans to help when
> >> learning new things to find, like doors, elevators and such in new
> >> places.
> >> No big deal though. Some dogs are better at words and finding things 
> >> than
> >> others too. I've had the spectrum and even the ones who weren't truly
> >> word
> >> oriented were concept and context oriented and caught on quickly.
> >>
> >> Jenine Stanley
> >> jeninems at wowway.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> http://www.nfbnet.org/mailman/options/nagdu_nfbnet.org/hope.paulos%40gmail.c
> > om
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