[nagdu] Critical blind people

Mon Aug 2 18:26:06 UTC 2010

Jewel,

That might be a great thing for our noble leaders to consider including in
next year's convention agenda...  How to do it remotely for those who can't
attend or for NAGDU at large between conventions is something better heads
than mine might be able to come up with. /grin/

Tami Smith-Kinney

-----Original Message-----
From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On Behalf
Of Jewel S.
Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2010 8:34 AM
To: NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users
Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people

I havenoticed, also, that many blind people have no understanding for
people with multiple disabilities. I will throw my own story about
this in.

When I was at the rehab center here in Raleigh, there was a student
who came just for two classes (because she had other classes to attend
and needed to concentrate on the two classes carefully for now):
Braille and Orientation & Mobility. She was deafblind, and only the
teachers who worked with her gave her any notice, the others all
avoided contact with her, and I found that none of the other students
were even saying Hi to her, not even through her translator (she was
deaf first, then blind, so she is very fluent in ASL). I finally
decided that it was not something I would condone, this avoidance of a
personw tih multiple disabilities. After that, the first chance I got,
I sat down next to her, said hi to her translator and let her know
that I was just going to chat with Jennifer and that no translation
was necessary, as I knew some sign language. Then I placed my hand on
Jennifer's upper arm very lightly, a tap really. She immediately
extended her hands toward me in what I considered a question like "Who
are you, why are you touching me, what's up?" I swiftly signed H-I
into her hand, then "my name Jewel" I spelled it out, then gave the
sign name I was given by a deaf friend in high school, a J at the
eyeridge. She told me she knew someone with that sign name already,
and changed mine to a J at the chin. I smiled, nodded acceptance, and
we talked a little. Since she was learning the Braille alphabet, I
asked her how it was going. Of course, having just started, she said
it was hard and we went on from there. It turned out to be quite fun
to sit and chat with her...she had a flittering mind like some people
are...she could go from one topic to the next without concern for
finishing a topic, and I found that kinda relaxing. We talked about
everything from classes to cafeteria food to books to volunteer work
(she was volunteering at a thrift store with her
translator/caregiver).

Unfortunately, when I asked her translator if she knew any books on
signing that didn't rely heavily on pictures, she said she didn't and
would look int it, but found nothing. I would have asked Jenn, but she
wasn't around at the moment (in class) and forgot to ask after, but I
don't think she would have known of any, especially since she didn't
need them, being fluent in ASL.

I tried to get other people to talk to Jennifer, whether directly or
through her translator, but it didn't work too well. But, toward the
end of my time there, Jennifer started making it a point to talk to
people when she got to class. One afternoon, she sat down and signed
to her translator, who spoke up "Hi everyone, I'm Jennifer.  Who all
is in class today?" I saw that as a very good sign (no pun intended!)
that my talking with her was showing her that she could make friends
with other blind people. It made me feel warm when she did that,
because it showed she was thinking of us as other people that she
could call friends.

There was a discussion a little time back about a a Swiss group, I
believe, coming up with a device that helps blind people see the
emotions on people's faces. I think that device would be put to much
better use as a way for blind people to feel the signs translated into
Braille or some such. It can be hard for a deaf person to allow a
blind or deafblind person place their hands over theirs as they sign
(it slows movements and makes some signs almost impossible to make if
the person's hands are not very lightly touching), and a device that
translates ASL onto a screen would be good for blind people (tactile
display) and sighted people (print display).

Another example of multiple disability insensitivity is my own. I have
chronic pain and fatigue, and *very* sensitive nerves. I don't like to
be touched without warning, because it will set up a flash of pain if
I don't brace myself and even then, it flashes pain but at least I
know it's coming. However, many people (sighted or blind) feel they
have to touch me, give hugs and pats on the back or shoulder, grab my
arm to lead me or expect me to hold their arm so they can lead. They
don't seem to understand when I say "Please don't pat my back; I have
chronic pain and it hurts a lot when you do that." or "I will follow
you. I can listen to your feet and see the colour of your shirt. I
would rather not touch or be touched." It can be very difficult to get
people to understand, even those very close to me. My O&M instructor
still likes to give me a pat on the shoulder when I've done well,
though I've told him that it hurts and that I'd rather he verbalize
things instead)...he has almost knocked me over with his "pats." This
sort of thing can also be seen in people who are blind and have
autism. Often, autistic people do not wish to be touched because they
are sensitive to sensory input and a touch can feel very painful or
interfering to a person.

Perhaps some kind of sensitivity training would be good for many blind
people to learn about multiple disabilities. In NAGDU, this could
apply by doing some kind of sensitivity training about how guide dogs
work with people with multiple disabilities and how what might seem
wrong to one person is how that team works best together. Such
discussion could also discuss dogs who have more than one task. For
example, Roxy's dogs are guides and also help with pulling laundry
hampers around (just an example!). Other guide dogs also have a
balance harness to assist with balance, and still others are trained
to stop at every curb or driveway, not just intersections, because the
handler might stumble on the slope down to the driveway or the step
down off the curb. Still others are trained to work with people in
motorized wheelchairs, who use a support cane, or who need extra time
to listen for traffic at an intersection. I think a discussino on this
topic, a conference call or a class with a presentor who has worked
with guide dogs who assist people with multiple disabilities (I know
GDF has) would be a great thing. What do you guys think?

On 8/1/10, Hope Paulos <hope.paulos at gmail.com> wrote:
> her name is pronounced: ben yay. I'll explain how she finds stalls/sinks
> when I have a minute. Am running out the door. <smile>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cathryn Bonnette" <cathrynisfinally at verizon.net>
> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 11:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>
>
>> Hi Hope-
>>
>> Just read your post.  Please tell me how you pronounce your dog's name-
>> I'm
>> intrigued.  Also, wondering if you could give me some pointers on how you
>> trained your guide to find the largest stall and sinks. I've not found a
>> good enough way yet. It's a gamble to see if she'll find the stall each
>> time, and finding the sink is rare.
>> Either way, thanks for listening.
>>
>> Cathryn (& Abby)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
Behalf
>> Of Hope Paulos
>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 10:14 PM
>> To: NAGDU Mailing List, the National Association of Guide Dog Users
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>>
>> I agree, Jenine. I was at several conventions, and when I told my dog to
>> "find the elevator" (no matter where I was in the particular hotel) she'd
>> immediately take me there. I didn't have to say "left" "right", etc. She
>> automatically took me there. And this could be from  *anywhere* in the
>> hotel... I also trained her to find the largest stall in the restroom,
the
>> sink (restroom) and paper towels (just below the dispenser). Now it's a
>> matter of teaching her to find/follow lines and not cut in front of
>> people.
>> <grin>
>> Hope and Beignet
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Susan Jones" <sblanjones11 at sbcglobal.net>
>> To: "'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'"
>> <nagdu at nfbnet.org>
>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 9:59 PM
>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>>
>>
>>>I find the "find" command invaluable, and use it often, especially for
>>>trash
>>> cans, elevator buttons, stairs, doors, etc.
>>> Susan & Rhoda
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org [mailto:nagdu-bounces at nfbnet.org] On
>>> Behalf
>>> Of Jenine Stanley
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 31, 2010 8:18 PM
>>> To: 'NAGDU Mailing List,the National Association of Guide Dog Users'
>>> Subject: Re: [nagdu] Critical blind people
>>>
>>> Wow, I'm amazed at how many of you have encountered the sentiment that
>>> having your dog find common things, like entrances, elevators, etc., is
>>> too
>>> hard.
>>>
>>> This is not a GDf brag by any means but this concept of using the dog's
>>> vision and training to help you find things being too much is so foreign
>>> to
>>> how I have been taught for the past 20 years that it boggles my mind.
>>>
>>> My first group of instructors at GDf told us that we could teach our
dogs
>>> to
>>> find just about anything if we used the method we were taught and
started
>>> slowly. We were encouraged throughout class to have the dog find things
>>> and
>>> finding entrances and exits was part of every day work. Finding stairs,
>>> elevators, escalators, etc., was as well. During class we have the dogs
>>> find
>>> our rooms, not because GDF thinks we can't  but because it does help to
>>> instill that find command. I use this constantly in hotels where I want
>>> the
>>> dog to return to my room.
>>>
>>> We, and when I say we, I mean students, teach the dogs to find "my seat"
>>> which is either an assigned seat in the dining room during class, or any
>>> seat I might vacate and leave things at, such as in a meeting. I don't
>>> even
>>> have to leave my things there necessarily.
>>>
>>> The hard part about this type of work is allowing the dog to do it, make
>>> mistakes and get it right. You do have to offer the dog a little support
>>> at
>>> times and not over correct if he or she gets it wrong, but wow, it's a
>>> way
>>> of working with a dog that maximizes both of your abilities and if you
>>> have
>>> the least problem with hearing or orientation, this skill can be
>>> invaluable.
>>>
>>>
>>> I've heard one instructor say that the find command doesn't work because
>>> people too often misuse it, asking their dogs to find things that aren't
>>> there or facing one direction and asking the dog to find the door out of
>>> a
>>> room without knowing where it is.
>>>
>>> My answer to this is that either the people he has seen don't understand
>>> how
>>> the command works or aren't reading their dogs well, or the dogs have
>>> never
>>> been taught the command and what is expected of them. Dogs and people
who
>>> have been taught the find command and know how to teach it in a variety
>>> of
>>> settings, usually get it. I can be facing the back wall of a room and
ask
>>> my
>>> dog to "find outside." He may turn a couple times or do a circuit of the
>>> room until he recognizes the door out but he will find it. This is
>>> especially helpful in large open spaces like exhibit halls.
>>>
>>> Now, this year in Dallas, Swap found getting out of the exhibit hall
very
>>> challenging some days. So did my wallet but that's another story. <grin>
>>> There were often crowds, but not necessarily huge crowds, around the
>>> entrance so when I asked him to find outside, meaning the way out, he
>>> would
>>> do a circuit of the room and end up at a booth we liked, always a
>>> different
>>> one, but usually not necessarily close to the exit.
>>>
>>> Well, DUH, Jenine, why not try some positive reinforcement when he does
>>> get
>>> it? A little food reward paired with the GDF praise "Good outside!"
>>> worked
>>> wonders. E
>>>
>>> I can't even imagine why other blind people or other handlers would
>>> criticize using these commands, unless it's for the reasons espoused by
>>> the
>>> instructor. If my dog just isn't finding something, chances are it
really
>>> isn't there or he's confused somehow. That's when I can step in and ask
>>> others for help, just pointing me in the right direction usually works
>>> but
>>> sometimes the dog figures out that the human knows best and will default
>>> to
>>> that.
>>>
>>> The key to really getting the most out of the find command though once
>>> it's
>>> been cemented, is to use it. Expect the dog to find things and reward
>>> appropriately. You also need at times to use other humans to help when
>>> learning new things to find, like doors, elevators and such in new
>>> places.
>>> No big deal though. Some dogs are better at words and finding things
than
>>> others too. I've had the spectrum and even the ones who weren't truly
>>> word
>>> oriented were concept and context oriented and caught on quickly.
>>>
>>> Jenine Stanley
>>> jeninems at wowway.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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-- 
~Jewel
Check out my blog about accessibility for the blind!
Treasure Chest for the Blind: http://blindtreasurechest.blogspot.com

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